Look out below! The Wall Street rollercoaster is adding MORE grey hairs to stock market casino goers. Now just imagine if John McCain gets his way and privatizes Social Security. If he had already done it to us, just take a peek at the chart and imagine what your retirement situation would look like in just this last year alone. I guess none of us has to worry about the skyrocketing costs of gas, food, insurance. Rest assured!: None of us has to worry about losing homes or even our right to vote (!) as the same old players keep telling their same old lies about what they’ve been doing to us for the last 8 years. The GOP (McCain is their front guy this year) wants us to hand over our Social Security retirement funds so they can scam us by charging huge fees, creating vague and unaccountable bureacracies and betting it all on a spin of the Wall Street casino wheel. Who’s in? Ante up! Vote Republican and you’ll get a chance to see the next 4 years of what the GOP has planned. If you’ve loved the last 8 years, you’re going to adore the next term under McCain the “reformer”.
I have heard Sarah Palin state that she and John McCain are going to reform our country. I don’t think our “country” needs reforming. I think we need to kick the bums out who have mis-governed for the last two presidential terms. Our country cannot afford Republican mismanagement. They’ve done enough damage. Slap their hands away from our Social Security retirement funds. Just say NO! More information at the link.
McCAIN WANTS TO PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY
McCain Voted for Bush’s 2006 Social Security Privatization Plan. In 2006, McCain voted for the Social Security Reserve Fund. The proposal would shift Social Security’s annual surpluses into a reserve account that would be converted into risky private accounts. [SCR 83, Vote #68, 3/16/06; SCR 83, Vote #68, 3/16/06]
In 2000 McCain Wanted to Divert Social Security Money to Private Accounts. The Wall Street Journal reported that “[a] centerpiece of a McCain presidential bid in 2000 was a plan to divert a portion of Social Security payroll taxes to fund private accounts, much as President Bush proposed unsuccessfully.” The plan would put workers’ retirement money into the risky market and reduce the amount of Social Security payments they would receive from the government. The plan would undermine the Social Security system. [Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08]
McCain STILL Proposes Privatizing Social Security—Despite What His Website Says. McCain told the Wall Street Journal he still backs a system of private retirement accounts that he supported in 2000 and President Bush pushed unsuccessfully. The Journal reported he “disowned” details of a proposal on his 2008 campaign website that says he would “supplement” the existing Social Security system with personally managed accounts. But when asked about the position change he denied it and promised to change the website to reflect his true position. “I’m totally in favor of personal savings accounts… As part of Social Security reform, I believe that private savings accounts are a part of it—along the lines that President Bush proposed,” McCain told the Journal.[Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08; Campaign Website, accessed 3/3/08]
McCain Might Raise the Retirement Age and Reduce Cost-of-Living Adjustments. “[T]he McCain campaign says the candidate intends to keep Social Security solvent by reducing the growth in benefits over the coming decades to match projected growth in payroll tax revenues. Among the options are extending the retirement age to 68 and reducing cost-of-living adjustments, but the campaign hasn’t made any final decisions. ‘You can’t keep promises made to retirees,’ said Mr. Holtz-Eakin, McCain’s chief economic aide.” [Wall Street Journal, 3/3/08]
McCain Supported Deep Cuts That Put Social Security Benefits at Risk. In 2005, McCain supported a Social Security plan that would require deep benefit cuts or a massive increase in debt. That same year, McCain voted against prioritizing Social Security solvency over tax cuts for the wealthy. [SCR 18, Vote #49, 3/15/05; S. Amdt. 144 to SCR 18, Vote #47, 3/15/05]
McCain Voted to Use Social Security Money to Pay Off National Debt. In 2003, McCain voted to use Social Security funds to pay off federal debt. [HJR 51, Vote #201, 5/23/03]
McCain Voted Against Protecting Social Security Solvency with a Strategic Reserve. In 2001, McCain opposed reducing tax cuts for the wealthy to create a strategic reserve for Social Security. In the same year, McCain voted against a proposal to create “lockboxes” to protect Social Security and Medicare. [H.R. 1836, Senate RPC, Vote #145, 5/22/01; S. Amdt. 29, Vote #22, 3/13/01]
McCain Voted to Replace Social Security with Risk-Based Investments.
In 1998, McCain voted twice to replace Social Security’s guaranteed benefits with income from risk-based private investments. [SCR 86, Vote #56, 4/1/98; SCR 86, Vote #77, 4/1/98]
Great post. I will read your posts frequently. Added you to the RSS reader.
Excellent work, Vixen. But here come our local rightwingers and libertarians who do consider Social Security some kind of odious socialism, want to pretend it’s in some kind of grave crisis, and do want to privatize it. I’m talking about nice guys Andy Favor and Ron St. John (if they’re reading the blog today) as well as usual suspects Junior, Thomas and Carl.
George Bush certainly hit an iceberg of public disapprobation when he tried squandering his “political capital” on this scam back in aught-5. It’s a winning issue for us; we’ve all paid in to social security and we all want to get our investments back. Not to mention the old codgers who are living on it now… VOTE.
Red Vixen and Vern.
Your both over your heads on this one.
No problem. We will continue with the present Soc Sec system. However, based on actuarial data we will continue to ratchet up the effective date for full retirement benefits. As such you will not be eligible to collect until you reach age 80. Make you happy?
I have an-depth data on this issue and will try to locate same in this war room.
For those entering the work force today let me state that there was a time in this country when there were more workers than retirees. That number has flipped where we will now have more retirees than workers in America.
Are you prepared to see your FICA witholding increase to 10 percent? Let’s not overlook the fact that the same number also applies to the employers matching bucks. And while we are at it let’s increase the annual cap from $102,000 to $150,000 before you stop making those donations to the bankrupt trust fund.
If and when I locate my data on “privatization,” I promise to add said info.
Long term investment in the stock market beats social security any day. There are also other proposed options other than the stock market for it’s investment. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that most Americans have their greatest investment in their home, now worth substantially less than two years ago. Fact is there are some companies that are still doing very well both in the markets they serve and the stock market.
You seem to be stuck on nothing but a short term myopic view. Privatizing it would stop Congress from raiding those funds for their own nefarious purposes and that reason alone is why I am in favor of it.
Remember too social security was supposed to be a safety net, not ALL your retirement planning. I have no expectations of getting a dime of the money I put into it. At the rate they are going they will live up to my expectations too.
Carl,
Your information on the stock market is incorrect – you are repeating inaccuracies- because privatization would leave individuals open to outright fraud and snookering by the stockmarket casino. If you long term invested in GM, you’d have done terrible. If you purchased MSFT 10 years ago, you’d have incured a loss: http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?iax=1&Symbol=MSFT&CP=0&PT=10 Individuals who enter the stockmarket do substantially worse than managed money. Managed money=fees, AND there is no guarantee that if your portfolio tanks, that you can ever recover from those losses. But nice try.
Also, your assumption that home ownership = investment is largely incorrect. The majority of real estate purchases are not investments. In order to achieve that status of investment, you’d have to pay down your note to zero and then you would actually own the home. Most people are Home debtors. The underwater ones are losing their bank-owned homes.
I don’t blame you for not knowing basic economic principals and how things really work. You obviously watch your partisan side closely and are able to parrot some of those simple assumptions that they’ve asked you to store in your memory. Here’s some of the clueless thinking that the GOP wants you to adopt. McCain is saying it THIS time, but it’s been the doctrine all along with them:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/16/obama-ad-goes-after-mccai_n_126727.html
Larry, just raising that annual “cap” a little WILL keep the program solvent for most of the rest of this century. Carl will get his SS checks, and I will let him buy me a beer.
“McCAIN WANTS TO PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY”
God forbid………I guess only the government is able to completely screw up things like the postal service, social security, freddie & fannie, AIG.
Instead of telling us all that Americans are too dumb to be trusted with their own future, my question is can the government be trusted with my retirement funds?
You say “We need to raise our cap rate”
But if we just raise Social Security taxes, Congress will treat these taxes as general revenue and spend / waste them.
And private accounts are the best means we can find to (a) accumulate contributions without (b) allowing Congressional representatives to seize them as resources available to fund current federal spending.
Congress has taken all the savings surpluses built up by Social Security over the past decades and it has blown them. Rep’s AND Dem’s.
I guess only the government is able to completely screw up things like the postal service, social security…
Strange to start with two of our greatest successes there…
Oh, did I say “our?” I guess that’s because we live in a democracy and this government is of the people by the people etc. And in my 48 years of experience the post office kicks ass. Social Security also seems to be doing fine.
Jamie, Welcome and thank you. We look forward to your future postings. Vern, always a pleasure to have you around 😉
Thomas said”God forbid………I guess only the government is able to completely screw up things like the postal service, social security, freddie & fannie, AIG.”
Thomas, the postal service and social security are government run. So far neither has failed to deliver.
Fannie, Freddie and AIG are all publically traded companies. They are in various stages of failure. Remember the stockmarket addage: Private profits vs. public losses. Once again, the deregulation that was allowed to occur since 2000 has resulted in hand over fist greed and little to no accountability. The shareholders will get fleeced, the upper management will have profited handsomely and the tax payer will pick up the tab for fraudulent policies and practices that have been in place under the Bush Administration.
As far as Social Security, if you read the second page of my post, you will see that SS has been assaulted time and again. Just ask John McCain – he wants to dismantle it. I suggest that we treat SS the same as California State employees have – every time Arnold has tried to raid the retirement funds to “balance the budget”, there has been a collective slap of his hand by the state employees and their representatives.
Maybe it is time to pass some laws to ensure that our retirement funds – state or federal, are exempt from lazy leaders who try and raid them for an easy solution to fiscal challenges.
RV are you trying to get Verns award next year? Holy c**p the spin around here is making me dizzy
The postal service has not failed to deliver??
I guess you do not work in Santa Ana, I am LUCKY if I get our mail and I am even luckier if people get the mail I send out from the office.
Freddie and Fannie went under because the FEDS demanded that they make home ownership available to those who could not afford it……un-secured- sub prime loans backed by the government.
It also suffered because it was looted by a guy named Franklin Raines, who you may know as Obama’s economic policy adviser.
AIG might be publically traded companies but you and I, the taxpayer, own 80 % of it.
And if you really think the USPS has ever failed to deliver, read this link:
http://dailymoneyhack.com/buy-lost-mail-from-united-states-postal-service-auctions.htm
Why would a business that loses about 10% of the mail it is entrusted to deliver, sell the lost mail it later finds at auction instead of delivering it?
Holy c**p the spin around here is making me dizzy
Embrace that vertigo, Juicebrother Carl. Just make sure your safety is on.
“And if you really think the USPS has ever failed to deliver, read this link:
http://dailymoneyhack.com/buy-lost-mail-from-united-states-postal-service-auctions.htm
Why would a business that loses about 10% of the mail it is entrusted to deliver, sell the lost mail it later finds at auction instead of delivering it?”
Wow Thomas that is just crazy. I had no idea. I hope no one has bought any of our companies mail. There is business info,banking info,credit card info,and tax info on some of that stuff. That is just scary.
Red & Vern. While I continue looking for my file on “privatization” let me add some numbers (which are three years old.)
From 16 workers in 1950 vs 3.3 per retiree in 2005, by the year 2030 there will only be two employed workers paying for each recipient at that time.
According to the SSA our Trust Fund Assets will see a major change beginning in 2027 where “the annual payout will begin to exceed annual income plus interest earnings, and the Bonds that the Trust Fund holds will need to start being redeemed. The Social Security actuaries conservatively project that the Trust Fund balance will be depleted by 2041. However, even after that date, Social Security will not be “bankrupt.” Annual collections from payroll taxes will be sufficient to pay over 74% of promised benefits.
The CBO projects the Trust Fund will not be depleted until 2052, 11 years beyond the SSA projections.
Choice. CHOICE. CHOICE! Palin-McCain: can you hear me now? Good.
SMS
Yeah, the privatization drums are beating again – this time behind McCain.
Larry (or was it Carl) writes: “Fact is there are some companies that are still doing very well both in the markets they serve and the stock market.” So gee I guess there is no gamble in putting my retirement money in the market. As long as McCain personally guarantees that I will never miss a dime then OK. I know McCain will never miss SS – he married his SS.
When the public employees got tired of California raiding their retirement funds they passed the pension protection act. We could pass the social security protection act to keep the government from raiding those funds and to require the the government make up any shortfall from now to eternity. If they can find billions to fund the Iraq war then they can never cry poverty when it comes to doing what needs to be done. Treating our seniors right needs to be done.
“Choice. CHOICE. CHOICE!”
As a pro-choice person, are you sarah, supportive of americans being able to invest their future how they see fit?
As a pro-choice person, are you sarah, supportive of americans being able to educate their children how they see fit?
How about you Vern?
Thomas.
Yes, the key word being “choice.” Let’s not enable Generation Y workers to make their own CHOICE decisions on how to invest their FICA taxes.
Hundreds of pages later and I still cannot find my presentation notes of an effective/successful privatization program presented by a Claremont Institute event speaker.
Thomas –
That was my gist, yeah, but I also think Social Security should be one of the choices, just not the only choice. If in the future we can reduce the number of people on the SS dole, we can get away from this whole pay-as-you-go system which makes no sense as people of my generation are still forced to pay retirement benefits for the last. If I’m paying FICA and not my IRA account provider, it’s harder for me to plan for my own retirement, isn’t it? And by the time I reach retirement, SS could be gone – no safety net at all. Is anyone else tired of working for everyone else for a promise?
‘I can do what ten people tell me to do, so I guess I’ll remain the same.‘ -Otis Redding… he had it wrong. Give me the dock on the bay and people leaving me alone any day!
Oh, and the same goes for the public schools. I share my position with Wayne Allyn Root.
SMS
Spinoza- you’re not alone. Get used to it, libertaryan fantasy noted. And who built the dock, anyway? It’s the return of liberal populism, with a Black Irishman running the show. Get used to it O Ancient Ones.
I gotta say- This blog is incestuous and even, um, predictable? How many of your daily hits and comments come from PAID bloggers?
Social Security is NOT an investment account.
It is a pay as you go system that been making huge profits for the government for many decades.
Also it is a Tax.
rintrah. You are joking about “paid bloggers” right?
Probably not Vern, But none of us is paid to blog here!
Cook, I’ve met you and seen your big white beard. You must be getting Social Security. Are you saying you’re not getting your money’s worth over the years?
I am pro choice on all accounts Thomas. But I’m sure that isn’t a surprise to you.
Anonomys, I was the one who said there are companies doing just fine. Here is a reality check for all of you, pro or con on this subject. NOTHING is safe in life. Life itself is a protracted gamble. Everyday we make choices that have effect on our future, good, bad, or otherwise.
You want “safe” put your money in an insured bank account and get the low paying safety of interest and FDIC protection, that’s about as safe as it gets. Or buy Treasury bonds backed by the govt. In this day that may be more risk than some want. Numismatic coins and precious metals have always been popular as well as hedges against inflation and because they retain intrinsic value, will always be worth something. There are many way to invest and enjoy your investments without being cash. While most of those are not listed as possible investments (most likely for tax reasons) for a privatized social security system there would be some risks involved in any of them.
The greatest differentiations in the current and a privatized system are that Congress would not be able to tap it as a resource to be used, when they feel the need, as is now done. Like the labor union bosses who steal the retirement accounts they have systematically taken from this pool of money and as Rob pointed out, made it a pay as you go system. The greatest danger here is that there will be fewer folks paying in, than getting paid if the statistical models hold. That is a huge problem for those on both ends. The end payee would have some control over what types of investments are used and what risks would be acceptable in a privatized system. Once again that choice issue. Right now, it’s just a black hole, you pour money in and pray that there is money there to come out the other end of the pipe. If SS were a private company, I dare say that the govt. regulators would have just cause in closing it down, the model simply is based on unrealistic numbers. It needs to be fixed, abolished or changed in some dramatic way, so it does make sense.
As I said before, I have no expectations that I will ever receive the money I paid into the system, especially now. I would like my daughter to have at least some control over her future and keep Congress from slopping at it’s trough.
The real question that should be asked is do you trust those in Congress to manage your future income.
If you believe in the same old system we have, then you must have faith in those who administer those funds.
I don’t.
rintrah –
Thanks for the compliment. If I sound like a paid consultant, I must be doing something right!
But seriously, none of us here are paid. I can’t speak for them, but I for one am a policy-wonk and campaign strategy (dare I say) expert which is why my material sometimes reads like that of a ‘paid’ analyst. Sorry. What you see is what you get. 😛
What’s wrong with that?
SMS
No Vern I am not collecting SS as of yet, But I do have a fall back position, got me 10 grand kids, spread across ethnicities and genders, So I think I/we be well diversified.
My only worry would be, if this financial melt down going on now would lead to a race war, ethnic cleansing , or purity of race (WWII). Now that would be bad news for mixed blood peoples.
LOL… too many of us Americans are mixed blood for that to happen now… including my kids. They are also “well diversified.”
For those entering the work force today let me state that there was a time in this country when there were more workers than retirees. That number has flipped where we will now have more retirees than workers in America.
That was the time when union membership was at 45% not the current 15% and when trade policies kept jobs in America and were not incentivized to send the jobs overseas. Want to see where your social security went look at the Republican policies of deregulation and free trade.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Dont believe anything a Republican tells you.
Anonyms –
‘That was the time when union membership was at 45% not the current 15% and when trade policies kept jobs in America and were not incentivized to send the jobs overseas.‘
Precisely. So how’s that union working out for you in 2008? Seriously, if it weren’t for the unions running amok years after their usefulness had expired, people wouldn’t have lifestyles that require monster pensions. Behold what your precious union agreements are doing to the big three automakers: giving foreign automakers more of an advantage over them, and by extension, all of us, and perpetuating American consumerism, increasing domestic demand and the necessity of investment in cheaper labor markets.
The incentive to move jobs overseas isn’t solely due to deregulation. It’s the inappropriate timing of our free trade agreements that are holding us back as more and more Americans enter retirement.
You want to end the cycle? Buy less and pay a little more to get that ‘Made in America’ logo. Oh, but we can’t because it’s a down economy, so maybe we could pull a ‘Logan’s Run?’ Half of our readers would be shuffled off this mortal coil!
So there you have it. It’s both parties’ fault.
SMS