The Anaheim Chamber of Commerce is continuing its full court press objecting to a new power plant being proposed on Orange County Water District owned land near Angel Stadium. The OCWD is set to vote on a long term lease of the surplus Ball Road Basin next week.
The lease came about through an unsolicited bid from the power company. OCWD has never put this property out to bid and is not considering other offers on the parcel.
The proposed plant is a private venture and would sell exactly zero kilowatt hours to the Anaheim Public Utility. Instead, the private company would sell electricity at premium peak electric rates to SoCal Edison. The demand for the construction is a bit convoluted, but in short, state environmental regulations are requiring the closure of major gas fueled power plants (i.e., this has absolutely nothing to do with San Onofre) and we’re already maxing out our ability to import power over high voltage lines through mountain passes leading out of the LA basin. This means we have to replace the local power we’re shutting down with new local power plants.
Public objection to this project has been consistent and vocal, with the Chamber leading the charge. This evening, the CoC issued the following press release:
Last Minute Claims Made By Water Official Regarding Power Plant Being Questioned
States Rate Would Go Down If Power Plant With 90 Feet Stacks Is Approved Next to Homes and RestaurantsANAHEIM, Calif. (December 6, 2013) — Today the Anaheim Chamber of Commerce submitted a request under the California Public Records Act to obtain a copy the Water Rate Study that was conducted related to a proposed 300-600 Megawatt Power Plant along the Santa Ana River on in the city of Anaheim. The request was prompted by comments made by the Orange County Water District’s General Manager Michael Markus at Tuesday’s Fullerton City Council meeting. Mr. Markus stated that rate would be lower, as much as 10 percent, if the Water District were to approve the power plant lease.
“We were surprised to see that Orange County Water District staff now claim that rates would definitely go down if they approve a power planton Monday. He indicated the rate would go down between five to 10 percent. We find it very questionable that given all the opposition to the lease, that now just a few days before the scheduled vote, he would make such a claim,” said Todd Ament, president and CEO of the Anaheim Chamber of Commerce. “Water rate studies are typically conducted prior to any suggested rate adjustment, so it’s important that our community have an opportunity to review the study Mr. Markus used to make such a statement.”
The Orange County Water District is expected to vote on a potential long-term lease on land that they own, which would allow an out-of state company to build and operate a power plant along Ball Road bordering the cities of Anaheim and Orange. The proposed site is within 985 feet of a residential neighborhood in Anaheim, and less than 1,000 feet away from the Stadium Promenade in the city of Orange. The Stadium Promenade consists of a multi-screen movie theater and several restaurants including Kings Fish House, Prime Cut and the Lazy Dog Restaurant.
“Opposition to the power plant lease continues to expand,” said Ament. “Just this week Assembly Members Travis Allen, Tom Daly, Diane Harkey, Sharon Quirk-Silva and Don Wagner joined State Senators Lou Correa and Bob Huff in expressing their oppositions. We are hopeful that the voting members of the water district will reject this unsolicited proposal.”
The Chamber has it right . . . on this one This proposed plant is a poor fit for this site and the OCWD has no business entertaining a long term land deal without issuing an RFP. Considering Anaheim has made it known that they’re willing to purchase the property outright, turning down a large chunk of capital now to improve our water infrastructure in favor of structured lease payments seems a bit . . . wait for it . . . shocking. Accepting this lease amounts to nothing more than burdening Anaheim residents with a tax. It’s their neighborhood that will pay the price of hosting this plant, yet those same neighborhoods receive nothing . . . NOTHING in return for their public investment. While it’s great to hear that OCWD customers in Lake Forest will see a rate cut as a result of this project, it isn’t right that park starved Anaheim residents get to pay more of their time and space to make that happen.
I sympathize with the aesthetic objections or even concerns with emissions from the power plant stacks, but what I’m most perplexed with is why no one is discussing the safety implications of storing massive ammonia tanks in a rather dense urban environment. A thousand feet isn’t exactly a lot of space for an accidental vapor cloud to travel.
The proposed plant will be fueled by natural gas and converted to electricity using what’s essentially a big jet engine. Like all combustion engines, it produces smog. Lots of it.
Part of the plant’s design includes a Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) unit. Like the catalytic converter on your car, it coverts the smog producing elements of the turbine exhaust (NOx) into less harmful waste. To do this, the SCR needs lots and lots of ammonia.
These tanks are massive and the ammonia stored in them is bad news. How bad? Well, earlier this year, a leak at a refrigeration plant in China killed 15.
I’d hazard to guess that the leak in China involved anhydrous ammonia and this plant would use safer aqueous ammonia . . . but I sure wouldn’t want to live a few football fields away from a tank. But really, that’s a guess. I don’t know what they’re using. Perhaps it is the really nasty stuff involved in the incident in China. I doubt it, but it could be– the point is no one, for good reason, wants to be anywhere near these tanks.
Still, what I find even more troubling is that the private company proposing this power plant wants to build soccer fields adjacent to the giant ammonia tanks as part of a pitch to sweeten the deal.
I don’t know about you, but I’m not sending my kids to play soccer next door to an industrial grade toxin. I mean, you’d think these folks would know that ammonia + kids = not good . . . It’d be like building a gun range and constructing a school next door. I don’t care how thick the wall is, that’s just stupid.
That seems like way too big of a risk for the district to take on.
Let’s hope they focus more on improving our access to local water supplies and less on building soccer fields next to giant tanks painted with the big red letters D-A-N-G-E-R.
lake forest will get a rate cut for being an OCWD customer? when did they become an OCWD customer? hopefully the author didn’t include any more “mistakes” in this piece.
Too far south? Sub Irvine or your south county city if choice.
Actually Ryan, I don’t think there are any South County Cities serviced by OCWD, but I could be wrong. I think that IRWD handles water for most of Irvine. A sub story to this is the “unsolicited” bid, and who the lobbying firm is that is representing the power company, Glaab and Associates and their close political and personal relationship with members of the OCWD Board. Campaign disclosures are sure going to be interesting in 2014. There’s an interesting story for someone to follow.
Irwd is a member of ocwd. I assumed (so I deserve it) included Lake Forest.
Not to mention that it would be next to a river. The would-be buyers presented the the idea to the Fullerton City Council on Dec. 3, presumably in order to solicit the support of the council and its OCWD representative Council Member Bruce Whitaker. If OCWD wants to lease the property they should open it up for an open bidding process. Mr. Whitaker should vote no for that reason alone, in order to be consistent with his prior objections to similarly exclusive bids.
So why is Sharon Quirk-Silva against this dumb idea, but in support of the desalination plant in Huntington Beach?
“So why is Sharon Quirk-Silva against this dumb idea, but in support of the desalination plant in Huntington Beach?”
Don’t be too sure she’s for it. That would depend on which day it was.
She’s not in support of the Poseidon plant. She withdrew her support, asked that her name not be used as a supporter, and would at this point probably best be described as “not getting involved in it because she has enough stuff to deal with regarding her district and committees.”
Since when, Greg? I was told on Oct. 10 by one of her staffers that she had not asked to have her name removed from the letter. Has she now done so? If she doesn’t want her name on it, but cannot get it removed, why has she not issued a press release expressing her regret for adding in the first place and clarifying that she has changed her mind, and no longer supports the project? Any reasonable person would understand a change of heart, Greg, but no likes it when politicians duck an issue instead.
I checked on that, REMEMBER, Matt, and she told me the staffer told you wrong and was scolded. Still, it seems she’d like to duck away from this issue, which makes her enemies on either side – building trades on one side, environment and good government on the other. She was notably absent at the Coastal Commission hearing, and when other assemblymen boasted of unanimous bipartisan support, I stepped up to correct the record: “SHARON QUIRK-SILVA RESCINDED HER SUPORT!” I announced from the mike. I still haven’t received any kind of thankyou basket from her.
Sorry, Vern, but after the apologetic press release came out and was attributed to her, despite her not having written or acquiesced to it, I think that she decided just to keep away from it — and it’s hard to blame her for walking away. I don’t think that even Joe Shaw does at this point.
Sharon’s trying to get re-elected against an Ed Royce-sponsored bigot who some report has already raised a million bucks, so her not wanting to get bogged down in such issues where her role is not critical, just because some activists demand that she jump through hoops, is pretty understandable.
” I think that she decided just to keep away from it — and it’s hard to blame her for walking away. ”
Ha, what bullshit – but that is your metier. It’s is very easy to blame her for walking away, or in this case just kind of wandering around.
More fiery but ultimately contentless argument from you. See my reply to Matt “Fullerton Rag” Leslie, just posted.
I’ve heard differently, I think from Vern.
Why hasn’t she issued a press release? Probably first because that’s not a press release that politicians generally put out unless it’s important to an outcome (which doesn’t currently seem likely); second, she has plenty of other battles to fight and causes to push and doesn’t want to detract from them; and third, this one has become seriously muddled due to statements she didn’t write being attributed to her.
Is there an important reason that you’re not focusing on Young Kim at all, Matt?
She’s a Democrat who chose organized labor over the environment, screwing her Sierra Club supporters.
What do you understand her position to be? She pretty clearly wanted to provide jobs if possible — but also clearly not to the point of “screwing her Sierra Club supporters,” which she apparently didn’t think she was doing. If, when she got more information, she retreated to a neutral position — the best among OC’s legislators — and asked that her name not be listed as a proponent, was that still “screwing her Sierra Club supporters”?
You make your political life far too easy — and by minimizing any difference between her and Young Kim, you’re comfortably irresponsible.
“she retreated to a neutral position”
Ok. So first she was against it. Then she was for it. Then she was against it again. And now she is neutral.
4 months. 4 positions. Woohoo!
(1) She has been opposed to it while on Council.
(2) No one reached out to her at the time the letter from the rest of the delegation was presented to her; apparently thinking (because she had been misinformed by proponents) that the controversy had been resolved, she or a staff member allowed her name to be included in the letter.
(3) All hell broke loose, she discovered that she had been misinformed, and she went back to a neutral but skeptical position.
A letter had been composed by others not associated with her office that apologetically presented the “complete reversal” position that they wanted her to take — and somehow got circulated, leading to erroneous claims that she had taken it. (At one point, I myself had believed that she had taken endorsed that letter.) But she hadn’t — she thought that removing herself as a proponent was enough.
So: only three positions, the noxious one of which taken temporarily because she or a staff member had been bamboozled by proponents. That’s not quite as embarrassing, is it?
See below Greg: “Can’t be neutral on a moving train,” Howard Zinn.
Well, I doubt that Young Kim is neutral. I’m confident that she completely opposes your position. So if you prefer that, you’ll have your chance to say so next November.
In politics, you only get so much attention to push only so many issues. The Coastal Commission seems to be taking care of the issue pretty well. Thanks to her withdrawing her support from the letter, the contention that “the entire OC state legislative delegation supports this” is now demonstrably false. (I’m sure that you’re grateful for that, right?)
Her getting mired in this issue beyond that, much as you personally may enjoy it, isn’t likely to affect the outcome; it IS likely to undercut her ability to do other things (with most of which I agree) in the Assembly — as well as to fight for re-election against a lavishly funded bigot.
If you want to go after someone imperfect, maybe the Green Party could run someone against Shawn Nelson. Or is it only deficiencies on the Left side of the aisle that register with you?
“not getting involved in it because she has enough stuff to deal with regarding her district and committees.”
WEAK.
Second.
Pfah. If she hadn’t been deceived, she wouldn’t have signed the letter to begin with, and then her official position would have remained neutral while promoting appropriate studies (with which we mostly agree.) She doesn’t have to lead on Poseidon; we have plenty of people in HB to do that. She just has to not contribute to the problem — and but for what was apparently a staff error, she hasn’t.
WEAK is no one discussing what Young Kim would have done in her place.
Young Kim hasn’t been elected to represent the interests of her district. What she has to say is completely irrelevant.
Silence is acceptance, Greg. SQS owes us more than that.
Young Kim is TRYING to be elected to represent the interests (or whatever she intends to do) of her district. What she has to say is entirely relevant. Imagine if she came out against Poseidon — what a shock to the system that would be. It would also put new pressure on Sharon to match her position.
Asking to have her name taken off that letter isn’t “silence,” Ryan. In fact, by political standards, it’s pretty loud. In any event, her decision as to how to deploy her time and influence is going to be affected by the prospect that the situation looks pretty much under control even without her active opposition.
Do we agree that Joe Shaw and Connie Boardman of HB have been among the biggest leaders among electeds of the anti-Poseidon crusade? If so, take a look at whether they’re excoriating Sharon. Joe was pissed off when her name was on the letter; now he seems OK.
Greg,
Show me her demand to be removed from the endorsement. Show me her follow up when her demand wasn’t satisfied.
No show? No go.
FYI, Kim is irrelevant. You constantly bringing her up? Making her relevant.
“Making her relevant”? You think that it’s really too early to start thinking about 2014?
My information comes from Vern — he’ll recall when he posted about it — although I vaguely remember confirming it with Sharon. (I wish I could say more than “vaguely,” but that’s the truth.) I don’t believe that the letter is being reprinted anymore, so she can’t be removed from it per se. If it’s being passed on verbally, she can only follow up and correct the record when she finds out about a given instance of it.
Here: why don’t you assert that she supports Poseidon, if you believe it, and I’ll ask her office for a comment! Would that satisfy you?
Retreated to a neutral position sounds like a pendulum that has finally come to rest.
Well, at the very least we do know that she is easily deceived, feckless and employs a staff of dubious intelligence/ability/honesty (pick one).
I don’t give a rat’s ass about Young Kim.
It’s not my job to assert her positions. It’s hers.
This is a total failure on her part. No show, no go.
David, it sounds to me like “someone gave me wrong information about the issue to induce me to take a given position, which I’ve retracted, and now I’m not going to put more of my time and effort into the issue unless it becomes necessary.” But if you want to call it a pendulum, that’s your prerogative. I’m waiting for Vern to arrive and go back to his source material, but I seem to recall her at one point setting forth standards such a proposal should have to meet. (I hesitate to conclude that because it may have been in the letter drafted by third parties and attributed to her.)
Ryan, I hope that you will not be offended at my finding that just a tiny bit extremely hyperbolic. But, seriously, I’m glad to see our smart conservatives on board against Poseidon. Have you conveyed your views to Bob Huff, Ed Royce, Tom Daly … need I go on?
Sorry, I can’t help much. She did tell me everything I said she told me. And I do want her to beat Young Kim. But at least until she does SOMETHING public to express her opposition, there’s nothing more I can do to help her here.
NOT MY JOB!
Greg, Vern saying that she has is not the same as doing the incredibly effortless task of putting out a press release or putting some basic platforming up on her website.
She’s just absent. Apparently on purpose. Who I’ve talked to on the topic is . . .you guessed it . . . irrelevant.
So I have been quasi-crusading against the Chamber on this one, but its not like I was doing so because I favor a power plant. Rather, my beef was procedural.
Building a power plant is subject to a process. The people should weigh the environmental impact with 1) the general benefits, and 2) the specific benefits of the project made available to the city by the developers.
I can not disagree with you more with respect to your contention that Anaheim neighborhoods would necessarily have nothing to gain from the power plant, that is just not true. What if the developers off-set the environmental costs by investing in parks all around the city? That would really benefit residents. But obviously, I am not prepared to say it would be enough…
But the Anaheim Chamber of Commerce abused its influence by short-circuiting the debate, opting instead to exploit the issue for the sake of its pet candidates. Moreover, I am highly skeptical of the long game they are playing. The Chambers approach helps no one in Anaheim. (Exceptions: Jordan Brandmen, Kris Murray, Gail Eastmen, Disney, Arte Moreno, etc.)
The Chamber needs to learn to play nice and to stop throwing its weight around on a whim. I don’t know who is in charge over there, but they must recognize the risk of backlash. Heck, at this point I’d appreciate it if they just went about their business with more subtly, in that case I might be able to hear about it without losing my lunch.
“The Chambers approach helps no one in Anaheim. (Exceptions: Jordan Brandmen, Kris Murray, Gail Eastmen, Disney, Arte Moreno, etc.) ”
These are just different profit centers for same business: PringleCorp. Still, you have to wonder what the Chamber’s Board and officers think about all this. Or are they selected because they can be relied upon not to exercise any independent thought at all?
Anyone can be a Pringle puppet. That’s his genius, he knows how to give people what they want…
But what does Pringle want? For me, that is a tough one…
Just a potato chip that doesn’t leave a greasy feel.
“what does Pringle want?”
That’s easy. More.
Perhaps the phrase “Masters of the Universe” may offer a clue….
To begin with, raise the height of those smokestacks by 16 feet. The site is part of flood control and has to be above the line for a 100 year flood, something nobody wants to talk about. Second, it isn’t the Chamber opposing this it is someone laundering money and using the Chamber as a mask to hide behind. We have established that the Anaheim Chamber of Commerce HAS NO MONEY! They run a six figure deficit every year, with the majority of the money owed for back payroll taxes. They cannot cover their own nut, they certainly cannot pay for buses to schlepp folks to the water board meeting. Someone else is behind this and they do NOT want the public to know who they are.
Who stands to benefit if this is not built? someone who believes we may get parks and sports fields out of the deal may think Anaheim could benefit from not building the plant, but I would wager if the power plant does not go in we will not get sports fields (where is the budget to develop them? We are blowing the wad of parks fees for that area by turning a tennis center into a wedding center so the private tennis operator can pocket the wedding fees) nope look for the auto mall to expand onto that site…but let’s go back to who is backing the chamber with funding to oppose this. Who doesn’t want a power plant built there? Perhaps someone with plans to build a power plant somewhere else? Or their lobbyist? Ya think?
BTW there has been a stable right there for a number of decades, how do you think the horses are going to enjoy the sound of those turbines? Or the Phoenix Club hosting garden weddings? There are existing land uses that should have a say in how they are about to be impacted.
All good points Lady Ward. I also would like to know who financed the bussing and associated events (attended by our favorite council members). It’s so hard to have a meaningful discussion when the Chamber is involved. They don’t care about good policy and you can’t take anything they say at face value.
Cynthia, you have been completely absent from this issue, and now you pretend to know everything about it. Although it shouldn’t, it continues to amaze me how you can blog with such certainty from a basis of such ignorance.
I am sorry Mr. Cunningham, was there a specific issue you wished to dispute? or is that just a general purpose dismissal, useful for those who have failed to counter with facts and thus have only rocks left to throw?
Well, how about your ignorant claim about the nature of the Chamber’s role in this issue, for starters, Cynthia?
If you don’t know something, there’s no shame in admitting it. You don’t need to run everything through your paranoid conspiratorial mental template and claim the result is actually reality.
Deciphering the Code: Cynthia, even though you have arrived at the truth, you cannot have arrived at it with any certain knowledge since you are not a mind reader and are not privy to any of the ways the Chamber is controlled by others behind the scenes; therefore you are ignorant of the Chamber’s role and I get call it paranoid conspiracy. You may not exercise powers of deduction because that is reckless ankle biting.
And also, you are crazy, crazy, crazy…
I think it’s hilarious that you would say anything about it because MATT WAS THERE AND YOU WEREN’T!!!
Claim? I thought that she was speculating.
Aren’t ‘ignorance’ accusations usually supported by answers? Wouldn’t supplying some of those add more to your post than further accusations, besides giving you any credence to make them? Just wondering.
Zenger: behind the sophisticated delivery, you are just as in the dark and ignorant as Cynthia. She makes a claim about the Chamber that is untrue – but that doesn’t to you or her or Vern or Greg because the absence of evidence doesn’t deter any of you from clinging to your conspiracy theories.
When Matt Cunningham stands in a forest and claims that everybody is wrong, but refuses to say what he claims is the truth, does it make a sound, and does he fall?
Uh, ya’ll want to focus on the crappiness of this power plant?
I mean, come on. We ALL think this is a terrible idea and that kind of alignment never happens. Ever. Folks reading this should get that.
To the Wordsmith:
Tell us how and why it isn’t true. Tell us why the Chamber should give a damn about this; tell us whether or not the Kleptocracy has designs on this site; tell us whether or not Pringle & Co. are working for another power consortium.
Until then, just shut up.
Ryan, why should I fight a bad land use to supplant it with another Kleptocracy give away? Why on Earth should I care. Once the they start giving away the store it’s pretty hard to care anymore about the merchandise.
The opposition is most certainly not grassroots. Somebody’s got an angle and it’s going to end badly anyway you slice it.
That was my thinking David… I caught on when I saw a few of my environmentalists friends in the Hills joining this FB group: “We want a sports park, not a power plant.” First, I was like why would the city spend all that money for a sports complex at the location-dumb. Second, after figuring out the Chamber was taking the lead (and with some help from Lady Ward) I became convinced the land would be the object of the next Chamber sponsored give away. (People called me crazy.)
Well, Dave, that’s a fair and respectable question.
I don’t have a fair and respectable answer.
@Daviid Zenger: Wow. Grouchy, aren’t we?
First: since when is your paranoid view the default position which must be disproved? It’s the other way around: the burden is on you to prove your paranoia.
Second: the Chamber’s position and why it cares is not a mystery. The Chamber hasn’t kept it a secret. For a guy who spends a lot of his day on the Internet, it’s disappointing you haven’t been able to Google your way to the answer.
@Zenger:
“Ryan, why should I fight a bad land use to supplant it with another Kleptocracy give away?”
Hmm, Mr, Former County Planning Commissioner: maybe the answer is because it is – as you note — it is a bad land use. That is generally sufficient cause to oppose it.
The second part of that comment is pure supposition on your part, supported by nothing but your own prejudices.
“tell us whether or not the Kleptocracy has designs on this site…”
I realize you think that is a very clever term, but its really just paranoid and intellectually lazy.
Competitive Power Ventures has designs on the site. So does the City of Anaheim. So does the Hardin family.
So what? The issue isn’t “who” – it’s “what,” as in what will be built on that site.
“tell us whether or not Pringle & Co. are working for another power consortium.”
I don’t know if they have an energy company client. I do know CP & A is representing the Hardins, and none of this is about trying to get Ball Road Basin for another energy company.
This isn’t hard stuff to figure out. Exactly how were your services to the county so valuable that you want $1 million?
As you would say: blah, blah blah.
Oh, and when is that Chamber of Commerce audit coming out? You never address that at all.
There is doubtless a back story or two that explains the mobilization of opposition.
It seemed pretty clear to me that somebody else was looking at an opportunity at the site (another of those marvelous win-win public-private partnerships, no doubt). I hadn’t thought about a competing peaker plant proposer elsewhere who might have employed a local well-know lobbyist to help scuttle the Anaheim deal.
I think that is exactly what is going on.
Yes Mr. Zenger, unfortunately we have all been forced to attempt thinking like the other side. Loved ones have promised if they ever catch me liking it in any fashion they will save me from myself by placing a pillow over my face and applying pressure until i stop struggling, much like I trust they love me enough to shoot me should I be bitten by the zombies during the apocalypse (it leads to much the same result as becoming a minion to the Masters of the Universe, wandering mindlessly, easily manipulated by orders with anyone with an air of authority, as though your ability to form independent thought has been stripped.)
In short, we must go through life (at least until some form of law enforcement looks into Anaheim) asking ourselves, “Is there an opportunity here for Curt Pringle to make a buck?” This often goes hand in hand with, “Is there a way someone can launder funding through the Chamber to keep Todd’s bar tab paid?” (yes I finally said that out loud.)
That supposition can then be verified by the presence of Matt Cunningham sticking his rodent-like (rodential?) snout into the conversation, failing to counter arguments with actual facts, as his handlers don’t bother arming him, preferring to send him out with neither sword nor shield, to merely throw rocks as an annoying distraction.
Speaking of rocks, my old pastor used to have a saying, “When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps loudest is the one that got hit.” We now see a pattern. We post an article, or take part in some perfectly legal activity and Cunningham grows loudest when we get the closest to the truth…conversely his defense of the Masters of the Universe being “nothing to see here, folks, move along” appears in direct proportion to the misdeeds of his masters. So he does serve a useful function, just not apparently to those paying him. Wonder how long it takes them to figure out that a) his paycheck does nothing to influence the average Anaheim voter, nor does he persuade the policy makers and power brokers and b) he is telegraphing their moves to the enemy camp?
Indeed it may be interesting to might make a study of Matt’s positions, (both offensive and defensive) over time and see how often they are tied to what we later learned were the money-making schemes of his Masters. Hey Greg, when you get back to the office, would you ask the interns to look into that? I think at least two are done with that last project we assigned. And get the damn cappuccino maker fixed, please.
clarification;
“indeed it may be interesting to make a study…” the “might” is redundant, please accept my apologies.
“rodential” is indeed the correct word for “rodent-like.” While looking it up I also discovered that of the order Rodentia, ” the grasshopper mouse, feeds extensively upon animal matter.”
This concludes our useless facts for a Sunday morning. We now return you to the original program already on the air.
“That supposition can then be verified by the presence of Matt Cunningham sticking his rodent-like (rodential?) snout into the conversation, failing to counter arguments with actual facts,…blah, blah, blah…”
Good to see the real Cynhia coming out: snarling, fangs bared, hurling petty personal invective while adopting a pose of moral superiority. You made no arguments, madam. You tossed out a baseless assertion about the Chamber’s role in this issue. I merely pointed that out – and you still have no facts to back up your claim, because they don’t exist.
Whatever.
She made no argument, per se. She shared a conclusion based on a very simple and reasonable deduction: the presence of the Chamber as a “leader” on this issue suggests manipulation for some ulterior motive.
Unfortunately the Chamber’s leader(ship) has made it abundantly clear that they over the past few years that they will support any nonsense Pringle Corp tells it to. Why would the Chamber give a damn one way or anther about this plant under normal circumstances? Of course it wouldn’t.
Therefore, the conclusion that the Kleptocracy is telling the Chamber what to do on this issue is perfectly consonant with its recent behavior and is a sound working premise.
Of course you could dispel this possible misapprehension by averring that neither Pringle nor any of his clients have any interest in the property. Really, if everything is aboveboard why all the tap dancing?
Oh, and speaking of your employer(s) why hasn’t the City released the so-called audit of the Chamber’s Enterprise Zone management? The 6-month audit is already year and a half late.
What? Is there supposed to be some sort of AUDIT of the Chamber coming out? When is it due?
(In the spirit of the “Matt outed …” posts.)
If you ever find yourself near the cross of Cerritos Ave. and Dale St. (In Stanton, near several spurs of flatland Anaheim, including mine) in amongst the high tension wire forest you may notice another gas turbine peaking plant, constructed a few years back BY the City ( at least ownership was claimed in a recent call to them on other matters when the site came up) certainly without ANY objection by THEM, and with little or any notice. It is inside an industrial area, but there are dwellings within 1000 ft (and a mobile home park not 200 ft across the train tracks!)
That is why I find the City’s sudden opposition to THIS project puzzling, if not hypocritical. (WE could have used a sports park! lol!) But what else is new?
Bingo.
Somebody has their sights on the site.
Also, if the Chamber of Commerce gave a damn about the residents of Anaheim they would be trying to stop Disney from dumping tons of chemicals on central Anaheim every year.
Well, yeah … read my “insider” comment to the end.
If the Chamber cared, they would urge investment in parks and rec all over the city. I was at Los Amigos a few weeks back, and a lovely woman was begging for money for arts and crafts at Ponderosa park. I mean, what a bang-for-your-buck community investment for the city!?!?!
But that sort of project does not bring in the big development dollars… so… nope.
The peaker plant in Stanton was built by SCE, and still seems to belong to them. Here’s a fact sheet (PDF) put out by Edison when they first proposed the project in 2007, and here’s its profile in the EPA’s ‘Facility Registry Service’ listing SCE as its owner.
Good info – Thanks! The ammonia system mentioned elsewhere as a concern is described on pg 4, and the north and east residential proximity is shown on the Figure 1 map, along with the mobile home park to the south.
The city’s opposition isn’t “sudden.” The city has communicated its opposition a power plant on this site since OCWD started talks with CPV this summer.
Also, your comparison of CPV’s project and the Canyon Power Plant doesn’t hold water. For one thing, the Canyon plant – built by the city-owned utility, which is under the authority of the elected city council — was not opposed by residents. The opposition from Anaheim residents and businesses to CPV’s proposal has been big and loud.
Furthermore, they are in to different location, with different impacts.
Also, the Canyon plant serves Anaheim residents, the CPV plant – while in Anaheim – does not.
And of course no Kleptocracy clients wanted the site.
“The city’s opposition isn’t “sudden.” The city has communicated its opposition a power plant on this site since OCWD started talks with CPV this summer.”
Matt, the City’s opposition may not be sudden, but as far as I can tell it is officially invisible. Despite Murray’s posturing at last night’s Council meeting about pursuing litigation or other legal means to enforce the City’s position, I cannot find ANY vote showing the Council has taken an official position on this issue. What date was that, Mr. Cunningham? Or are the personal opinions of leaders suddenly be substituted for official positions voted on by the Council as a whole? Has staff time been committed to opposing this? By whose authority if Council has not officially opposed this as a policy? Enlighten me.
Cynthia, I think the curtain will have to be raised on the Klepto ballet if they want to kill this.
Yes – raise that Klepto ballet curtain! I’m there – and so is Bartok.
Was this the oft- rumored “Dream Sequence” alternate ending that was dropped from the “Breaking Bad” box set?
I am willing to believe that the Chamber is (being used by some entity or entities interested, for good reasons or bad, in) doing the right thing here, and if so good for them (at least until the political bill comes due.) Ryan’s procedural critique seems sound. But I’m puzzled about this for other reasons.
(1) Are they exempt from CEQA or something? I’d thing that the “ammonia” concern alone would require a full-scale CEQA treatment.
(2) Does the SCAQMD have any role to play here? If they can go nuts over fire rings, crrtainly they should want to take a serious look at the emissions issues Ryan describes.
I do take issue with Ryan’s assertion that receng developments necessarily mean that new power plants must be built. Germany’s example shows how much can be done these days with decentralized solar — and we’re much sunnier than Germany. (This weekend of course excepted.)
Just to take the last part, Greg . . .
The RFO from Edison is at the direction of the CEC. They’re the ones demanding local gas fired power generation, not me.
Not to get us off track, but assuming you’re right, you need something like 3000+ megawatts of power generation from decentralized solar, probably more to accommodate for eb and flow, plus local storage to replace the powerplants that environmental regulations demand we pull from service, if I recall the RFO correctly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_California
Assuming Wikipedia is right and we only have 450 MW installed, I really don’t think that making the case for installing 600% of existing capacity is reasonable.
Study what’s been done in Germany.
I don’t think there are too many people in the energy industry who need to study up on it, Dr D.
Well, then please explain why I should discount their accomplishments in this regard, if you think I should.
Apples and oranges for one.
Basic project management for two. There simply isn’t enough time, money, or capital to get it done within the required envelope.
It’s a longer term policy goal, not a short term power demand solution. You shouldn’t discount it, but it doesn’t apply here. You’d use it to argue the RFO isn’t written properly, not to satisfy the RFO.
I don’t know if it impacts this, but on Tuesday’s agenda- (Item 13)
http://www.anaheim.net/docs_agend/questys_pub/MG42182/AS42221/AS42224/AI44747/DO44748/DO_44748.pdf
Anaheim Utilities is about to enter a 25-year contract @ $412k/yr for 4500 annual Mwh of peak power from a 2MW solar farm in Kings / Fresno County, (supposedly expandable to 5000 MW), on 24,000 acres of land that (supposedly too salt contaminated for agricultural use). I had heard something a while back about a (PGE/SCE) project somewhere that was grabbing all the funding formerly available(?) for rooftop solar, don’t know if this the same? A few questions perhaps someone could answer (or ask): Is $412K/4500MWh= 9.16c/kWh the min or max power cost (based on output), and are transport costs to OC extra? How does this compare to the local cost for gas turbine power or for customer rooftop solar? (This project is to meet ‘Green Energy’ Mandates) The company’s website is spartan to say the least, wondering if Anaheim is one of several participants, or the sole guinea pig? I will try and post back anything I find out tomorrow, unless someone already knows?
Got buttonholed at the OCTA today (that’s the expression I think?) by an “insider” who insisted on speaking off the record – a big supporter of this project, who got on my good side by talking trash on Cunningham, Ament and Pringle. He also obviously takes great exception to this article. (I told him to go ahead and comment anonymously if he needs to, but I don’t think he’s gonna.)
What’s his biggest complaint about this article? Well, that Ryan ASSUMES ammonia will be used – the plant will need to go thru a rigorous environmental approval, and that will almost certainly never happen. Anything else? From there his criticisms slip down to “Look at this, and that other power plant – they’re EVEN CLOSER to residences than this plant would be.” Ah, the old “At least we’re not as bad as Saddam Hussein” argument.
None of this would have been worth passing on – he shoulda said the ammonia thing himself – EXCEPT he did provide some insight on something we’d been wondering, which is why Pringle/Chamber/Ament/Jerbal are opposing the plant:
Pringle is playing a double game, pleasing TWO of his clients who want that space: NRG wants to be the people to build a power plant there; AND Harden, a representative of auto dealerships, wants to build a lotta car stores there.
Oh, Mr Insider also wants you to know this dirty stuff about Anaheim’s ballyhooed public utilities (is it true?) 70% of the power comes from outside of Anaheim; and 43% comes from dirty coal power in New Mexico which will eventually be phased out. And also that adding in this new plant WILL help keep Anaheim prices down, because it all goes to the GRID.
Valuable info? Credible? Seems like maybe.
That’s a load of crap, Vern. He has three choices. Anhydrous, aqueous, or urea. If he or she won’t pony up and go on the record, you tell them to pound sand.
His other tips may be helpful though.
Fine, but he botched the grid statement, too.
To affect Anaheim prices, three things need to happen.
1) Anaheim must use more power than their contracts provide.
2) the spot power market must be constrained
3) this plant must have surplus power available fire purchase beyond its contractual obligations
There’s no evidence on the table for any of the three. At best, it’s a very rare event that wouldn’t show up as appreciable in anyone’s bill in Anaheim.
Vern:
a) it is super obvious who your “insider” source is
b) this person is manipulating you by playing to your prejudices with twisted and misrepresented “facts.”
Well we sure get more FACTS from him than from you! Do you ever come here to enlighten us on ANYTHING? No you do not.
Why should I do your work for you?
But my point is deeper than that: i.e., why do you exist? You’ve made at least a half a dozen comments on this thread, and said nothing. Sound, sound, and a tiny bit of fury!
“But my point is deeper than that: i.e., why do you exist?”
Every court needs it’s chronicler. They also need a jester. But the jester job requires wit and insouciance. The chronicler position simply needs a sycophant with no sense of irony or shame.
And I would not characterize what you were getting as “facts.”
But who am I to lecture such a dialed-in blogger?
[Content redacted.]
(Nameless– I don’t tolerate stalking like behavior. Don’t do it again. –RC)
Re the “dirty coal power- eventually phased out”– I found that on the City website, and asked about it in my call above, receiving a torrent of (to me, conflicting) info, almost before I finished asking my question, which didn’t cheer me. From memory, not recording / notes, so I’m waiting to get flayed by some (City?) ‘expert’-
Q: Isn’t it cheaper to make electric right here where its used from (plentiful, for now) ‘clean’ gas, vs (what cost?) coal power in NM,and pay to ship it here?”
A(?) Well our cost in the (NM,UT,etc) facility is paid off,or essentially zero, so that will always (?)be cheaper.
Q: Is that still true in light of my hearing news reports that OB Admin. is regulating old coal plants in east into closure? Won’t that reach ‘ours’ sooner or later, so perhaps consider exiting sooner now if gas here cheaper? (Is it?)
A: Being a City Utility, we can’t keep the plants and sell the power,it’s only for our own use by law, and there is no market for those plants right now.
Q: OK, thanks
A your questions are more than 99% of customers ever have to worry about. You don’t have to worry either – We are working for you to get you the best deal all the time, we are cheaper than anyone in the area, etc..
(My comment) I still think that all the ‘old coal plant’ owners facing regulatory extinction would be happy to take our ‘newer’ coal plants off our hands now, but never getting any numbers, that will have to remain my opinion. I also asked about rate differences between Anaheim, SCE, and DWP that might be a factor in relocating a big user, like, oh, a baseball stadium, and the closest to info I got Besides some dated rates I found on a regulatory website- DWP, SCE only) was that “most of that is off-peak use, so is cheap regardless.” I remember seeing somewhere that LA has a UTILITY tax (and others on business!) that might dissuade a large business (?)Well, more syllables than info, but you don’t know if you don’t ask, right? Well ,FWIW!
In response to your “insider” information, see my earlier comment on the political connections between the no-bid power plant owner’s lobbyist and the OCWD Board.
LINE LOSS
Yes! That too – slipped my mind – also relating to the Solar Farm buy-in up for tues Nite vote- what is loss + expense of shipping solar power from Kings/Fresno County, or does CA mandate purchased ‘green power’ BEYOND funding local rooftop solar, or can both be combined to satisfy? I dunnow.
“…the dealership hired former mayor turned lobbyist Curt Pringle, dealership owner Dennis Hardin told a Voice of OC reporter while the board was in a closed-door meeting.”
And did we hear it first, yesterday, from a very compromised source who buttonholed our editor at the OCTA? Yes, we did. (I spelled Hardin wrong.)
Did we learn anything from Cunningham’s little spitballs? No we did not.
http://www.voiceofoc.org/oc_north/article_39735562-61dc-11e3-8a41-0019bb2963f4.html
It’s sort of like astronomers deducing the existence of an invisible body by the perturbation it causes on visible objects. After a while it’s not even conjectural – it becomes a science.
Anaheim has got some serious pertubators.
Evidently excessive, judging by the BLINDNESS evidenced in certain aspects of City decisions! lol.
Okay, that was funny.
Not directly related to this approval, but all this discussion jarred loose an item from memory of a few years back about “Bloom Boxes”, industrial sized adaptations of spacecraft fuel cells, that at the time held great promise for clean energy. Of several Google search items, this one questions emissions from the devices (still around!)-
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Blooms-Fuel-Cells-Just-How-Green-is-a-Bloom-Box
and this one-
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/california-sets-terms-of-massive-energy-storage-mandate
mentions an upcoming mandate for energy STORAGE in So. Calif., that may be interesting beyond today’s discussion. I wish more time existed to explore further. Anyone utility-knowledgeable out there want to put in their 2 kilowatts? One of the two mentioned something about a UTILITY SCALE installation in Delaware! Interesting.
Here’s some unintended hilarity from the Kleptocracy:
http://www.stopthepowerplant.com/fight/
It seems they are suddenly concerned about the Brown Act ‘n stuff going on in secret and in a hurry. Here’s a fun sample of their unhappiness:
“…the OCWD seemingly went to great pains to push this proposal through as quickly as possible amidst some very questionable activity in order to avoid public input and scrutiny…”
So when did the Kleptos get so bent out of shape about backroom deals made quickly to avoid public input and scrutiny? Right. They weren’t in on the scam. That was Bilodeau and Sheldon.
Bilodeau??? Never heard of the gent.
Really???
This website, which I would guess is the work of our own dear Mr. Cunningham, is linked on the City’s website as a reliable source of information to enlighten our citizenry. How is this remotely appropriate?
Uh oh. The Court Chronicler let the cat out of the bag:
“It’s too bad since the end was in sight for Anaheim’s processing of OCWD’s application to re-zone the property from open space to commercial, and mutually beneficial re-use of the basin could have been arrived at.”
Um. So what happened to the sports park? Well, it seems that behind the scenes that idea was already being quietly eviscerated by the Kleptocracy. The sports park is so yesterday!
Gee, I was called out for “super-speculative “ifs” that have no bearing on the situation” when I unwittingly speculated along those lines over at VoC! Now I’m really perplexed!
You were not unwitting. You were postulating an effect based on previous causes you had observed. It is just as valid as a geometry theorem.
It’s the same way we know that the sun will come up in the east tomorrow morning.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
You are correct; Big Box was WITTING.
I thought that was Charlie Sheen! I had better buy a thesaurus tomorrow. I was looking for a replacement for “innocently” – think of the fracas THAT would have precipitated!