Well now. Though I’d planned on working on other things tonight, mostly this new Facebook page of mine agitating for people to do something about an actual scandal (which I welcome you to read), locally somewhat semi-well-known writer R. Scott Moxley has gone ahead and published a story entitled “The World’s Most Worthless Diamond: Greg Diamond prefers digging into another man’s marriage rather than focusing on his California senate race” in which a friend confides that he apparently called me “the worst State Senate Candidate in California ever” before the headline was changed. Since I’m going to be taking apart the whole story paragraph by paragraph, I also have to publish each of those paragraphs, but I encourage you to go to the OC Weekly’s website (at the above link) and read it in its native form. In fact, to be sporting, I’ll also encourage you to get a physical copy of the weekly so that you can patronize its advertisers — especially if you’re looking to pay for sex with a stranger, a service where I’m informed it is unparalleled in Orange County.
I had been a fan of Moxley’s crime reporting for some time, back when I read the Weekly regularly, which at some point I just stopped doing because it wasn’t giving me that fun feeling I get from reading really good alt-weeklies like Seattle’s The Stranger. I got involved with its letters column within the past year, I believe, when I went there to stand behind my friend Vern when he was tweaking Moxley for being in the pocket of the corrupt and crazed Righeimer claque in Costa Mesa. It was then or not long thereafter, I think after catching Moxley in some sort of bizarre contradiction, that I started calling him “Arse Caught.”
See how they treat their enemies! <*sniff*> Actually, I have to give Patrick O’Connor credit — his caricature of me is pretty accurate (especially the part about my having skin and body hair) — except that I try never to be nude near open blinds. So — uh, anyone have a photo of Moxley?
For several months in 2011, lefty Orange County protesters gathered in solidarity with Occupy Wall Street, hoping to sway public opinion on the notion that a greedy corporate and political elite are working to trample ill-informed masses. The passionate, mostly youthful activists chanted, waved homemade posters and marched in numerous cities including Santa Ana and Irvine. They even held all-night vigils.
The impact of such activism depends on who is opining. Conservatives say Occupy OC was a meaningless exercise by anti-capitalist radicals. Liberals hope seeds were sown for a vibrant progressive community. Regardless of which view is right, there is no dispute the movement excreted a byproduct: Gregory A. Diamond.
See, I really liked the story right up to that word “excreted,” which just did not strike me as accurate or responsible journalism. You can read my writings on Occupy in the OJ Blog archives. You can also meet me at the 1st anniversary celebration of our occupation of Irvine on Oct. 14, about which I do plan to write.
It’s not that Occupiers knowingly and willfully gave us Diamond. The mysterious, 50-plus-year-old, former low-level Manhattan corporate lawyer dreamed of abandoning American society in disgust for imagined Third World pleasures, but instead quietly parachuted into the bustling metropolis of Brea in 2006 (or 2007; he has given conflicting dates) after a divorce and a series of employment failures. He worked on the campaigns of two ultimately trounced Democratic candidates, and then was named Jerry Brown’s 2010 gubernatorial campaign “co-coordinator” for Orange County, a position on par in importance with being named Mitt Romney’s Castro co-coordinator in San Francisco.
I’m going to spend a lot of time just correcting things, including things that Moxley could simply have asked me if he were interested in actually writing a decently researched feature story. (I know that this takes up lots of space, but it can take 100 words to rebut a two-word lie.) I don’t think I’m mysterious; I do think that I’m 52. I was a commercial litigator (which is different from a “corporate lawyer”) for an excellent firm in Manhattan (of which I remain fond), where I was also lucky enough to spend a ridiculous amount of my time on pro bono projects dealing with excessive use of force by police, persecution of asylum victims based on misused anti-terrorism laws, fighting disenfranchisement of felons in Florida, voter rights protection work, legal aid for Katrina victims, and a whole bunch of asylum cases.
I absolutely did think about leaving the U.S. in 2006, during the Bush Administration, largely (as Moxley wouldn’t know because he didn’t ask) because I saw an economic collapse coming and I didn’t want to be stuck in the middle of it. After a election that was successful for Democrats generally (though not for the Nevada Senate candidate whose campaign I was helping to manage), though, I came to California in December 2006, to stay with relatives pending a planned move to Oregon — which was delayed because I couldn’t decide: Portland or Eugene. Then I happened to meet and quickly fall in love with the woman who became my second wife. She wanted to stay near her family in Southern California — and that was that. I settled in Brea because it was in the Congressional District where my friend Ron Shepston wanted to run for Congress in 2008; I stayed because my wife and I (and our kids) just love it here. If that’s not what you got from those first few sentences above, talk to Moxley about it.
I”m not sure about the “series of employment failures” remark — and as you can see Moxley doesn’t specify. I didn’t get tenure in Political Science at the University of Illinois. I taught as a visiting professor for a year in Arkansas, then moved onto another tenure track position in Indiana. Sadly, my little Mazda GLC was hit by a truck on I-69 after a deer ran in front of my car, leaving me unconscious briefly with my seat back broken and one leg somehow through the steering wheel, sliding down the verdant and wooded median until I came to in time to hit the brakes just I’d have hit a tree. My wife, who was living back in Pittsburgh (where she still teaches), decided to put her foot down: no more commuter marriage. So I left my position there (after a year, just to be sporting and helpful) and came back to Pittsburgh, where I taught part-time and sold health insurance before I ran screaming to law school in New York. (The marriage didn’t last that move; she and I remain good friends.)
Diamond, who had been looking for a cause to give his life meaning, joined the Occupy ranks in 2011. The anti-establishment protests energized him.
I don’t recall ever saying either of those things at all to anyone, least of all Moxley. I thought that Occupy was potentially very important and that it was worth giving up a lot of my time. It hasn’t accomplished as much as I’d like, though it has done a lot of good things here, and I don’t regret taking a gamble on working with it at all. I like by far most of the people I met there and continue to make common cause with them.
Not everybody can afford to protest 24 hours per day, but the attorney (who has taken piecemeal work from a firm that is the Kinko’s of the legal community) had no daily job responsibilities.
I didn’t protest “24 hours per day” or anything like it. I didn’t sleep in the encampments (except for some of the first week, and never overnight.) The odd Kinko’s reference refers to– here’s an actual secret that Moxley somehow missed — Jones Day, where I worked as a contact attorney on several cases, during which time I did have daily job responsibilities for most of (as I recall) a year or more. After that ended in mid-2011 or so, I started to try to build my own private law practice — from which Occupy certainly distracted me, but again I’m not complaining.
For months, Diamond protested, but he also held a secret goal: to become a player in local politics.
Uh, no. I had already been a member of the Democratic Party of Orange County Executive Board for nine months before Occupy began. To the extent that was my goal — and I didn’t finally decide to run for office until January 2012 — it was not secret.
He kept a precise log of the amount of time—allegedly 3,773 hours—he volunteered.
Oh. My. God. No. That figure stretches from 10 a.m. on Saturday morning Oct. 15, where our protest officially began in Irvine (although it really began a few hours earlier) to 3 p.m. on the 158th day afterwards, when we agreed to end the abortive occupation in Huntington Beach. That’s the amount of time that Occupy Orange County was continuously and without a moment’s break on site and engaged in protest, 24/7, in Irvine, then Fullerton, then HB. That is not at all the number of hours I volunteered, nor did I ever say so. (For God’s sake, Moxley: DO THE MATH!)
Though it was forbidden for anyone in Occupy to grab leadership titles, he named himself “Primary Civic Liaison” and often nestled himself between reporters seeking quotes and other protesters.
I was the Facilitator (sort of like Chair, but not) of the Civic Liaison Committee, which negotiated with local police and city officials for the safety and the success of the encampments and protests. After a while, the other people who were involved would often leave the work to me because it became pretty legalistic and intricate. (If you had tried to introduce yourself to city officials and police as “Facilitator of the Civic Liaison Committee” enough times, you might have decide to call yourself “Primary Civic Liaison” as well. No one has seemed to mind.) As for often nestling myself between reporters, etc. — they spoke to a lot of people but often were interest in issues where I had the most expertise (and sometimes the most experience dealing with reporters); again, I didn’t get a lot of complaints. And yes, there were some protesters whom we didn’t especially want local journalists to interview.
Last spring, from his Brea rental, Diamond—whose solo law practice made him less than $1,999 in 2011—announced his campaign for a $100,000-per-year seat in the California state senate, representing the 29th District.
True that. As I recall, most of my income in 2011 came from my contract legal work (and some from when, being eligible, I was collecting unemployment.) I did relatively little work on my practice in 2011, largely because I did want to put in my time in Occupy. Partly as a result, yes, my wife and I and two of our daughters share a three-bedroom, two bath, apartment (with a two-car garage) in south Brea, for which we pay $1850. We like the place and the neighborhood — and believe it or not, I much prefer bringing up my kids middle class than wealthy. I like that I’m a lot closer in class to the average voter than is Bob Huff in his Diamond Bar mansion. Am I running for the salary? No, there are easier ways to make money, with fewer expenses. I’m running because I want to do good things for society. Seriously. That’s what I like.
He isn’t running for himself, of course. He claimed, “I’m doing it because tying my political fate closely to Occupy and fighting like hell is the best way I can think of to advance the Occupy critique.”
That’s all true. I had hoped for more support from Occupy and the sorts of well-heeled supporters who cared about it. Some of that happened, but not nearly enough to mount the sort of race I’d hoped — partly because of how badly the Occupy movement was suppressed (elsewhere, not much in OC) and how its image was tarnished as violent because some loose cannons with loose screws got involved and because the police elsewhere reacted to it violently. As Occupy fizzled somewhat (largely due to acts of suppression that have since been found illegal, sometimes with major damages), the likelihood of my staging a well-funded campaign against the incumbent, Bob Huff, lessened.
I don’t know whether or not my tying my fate to Occupy was foolhardy politically, but I’m proud of what I’ve done with its members. Lots of people were looking to Occupy to become to left-wing counterpart to the Tea Party — but that meant that some people had to run for office. It was hard to convince Occupy people — many of whom disdain the two major parties altogether — of the importance of giving someone to vote for, though by far most of the response I’ve gotten from them has been positive. Ron Varasteh (who’s running for Congress against Dana Rohrabacher in CD-48) and I were two of the few who gave raising the Occupy banner a serious try, though my sense is that I’ve made it more central to my campaign.
Bob Huff, the incumbent in the seat that includes portions of Orange, Los Angeles and San Bernardino counties, is the Senate Republican leader. In 2011, the League of California Cities voted the Diamond Bar resident its Legislator of the Year. Theoretically, toppling him would hand Occupy LA and OC a historic electoral victory.
Yes, he was Legislator of the Year because he was perhaps the loudest voice promoting the retention of Redevelopment funds, which he famously wanted to see used to build a football stadium in the City of Industry so as to attract an NFL team (and not incidentally create a gigantic windfall for his friends — with whom his wife works — at Majestic Realty.) Too bad the Weekly doesn’t have a reporter who’d be interested in looking into that!
“This is a chance to significantly affect our state’s policy debate by changing California,” Diamond wrote in a fund-raising pitch. “Those of you who have ever argued with me know that I’m stubborn, progressive, tenacious, incisive, dedicated—and I know how to bring it and make it hurt.” But far from working to make himself a serious candidate, Diamond is giving birth to what could easily be one of California’s worst, most inept campaigns for state senate in memory.
Moxley’s just so amazingly ignorant. That’s one of the things I found most difficult during our extended e-mail conversations. There’s so much he doesn’t know — and so much of that that he has no interest in learning about. I suggested that he read some of what I’ve written about this and other issues, but he made a point of pride of stressing that he’d never read even one of my blog posts here (or elsewhere, where I have reached more readers.) He had decided that the story was that I was not competing seriously for the seat — and that was it. (His real problem seems to be my interest in the Fullerton Police investigation of Chris Norby, but I’ll leave that until Part Two.)
I know of three State Senate campaigns within the last two cycles here alone where the Democratic candidate — there to be “a name on the ballot” — made no serious attempt to campaign at all. That just happens sometimes — it also happens with Republicans in very Democratic territory. If he wants to say that I’m a “sacrificial lamb,” my response is that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being a “sacrificial lamb.” I can (and possibly will) explain part of that as I go on, or maybe I’ll wait until after the election. But the point of his story seems to be to accuse me of being something that is, simply, not a disgrace. It’s so WEIRD!
That’s clearly not his motivation for the story, though. Besides petty revenge, he seems to be — well, how does he put it? I’ll have to jump to the very end.
Realizing our interviews weren’t going well, Diamond demanded we reverse roles. He sent a list of questions and threatened to write a blog post about me in the aftermath of this article. He was incredulous when I didn’t recoil in fear. To underscore his power, he proclaimed, “I’m now among the most-read political bloggers in OC.”
I’ll admit — my working hypothesis at this point was that Moxley’s sudden and pugnacious interest in my campaign was the consequence of something I’d published here the previous week, see the link the next paragraph. I’ll just quote my own e-mail to him, written well after our exchanges had begun to deteriorate:
Now, Scott: it seems to me that, unless you do the same level of research into all aspiring elected officials — and your lack of interest in information regarding Asmb. Norby suggests to me that you do not — you seem to be engaged in an effort to brandish your power as an investigative journalist. This is apparently either to dissuade me from criticizing your actions in your own job as a journalist or to punish me for having done so in the past. (Most recently, here: http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/09/what-barack-obama-who-moxley-finds-putrid-elephant-but-misses-the-mark/.)
So, writer to writer and subject to subject, let me ask:
(1) Have you ever used your position and prerogatives as a professional journalist to settle personal scores?
(2) Have you ever used your position and prerogatives as a professional journalist to advance a partisan or ideological political agenda?
(3) In asserting that “President Barack Obama seemed forgotten” at the recent Truman Dinner, did you weigh evidence of whether the following excerpts sited in the link above:
– (a) “Richard J. O’Neil Lifetime Achievement Award winner Chris Townsend‘s delightful mockery of Clint Eastwood’s ‘Invisible Obama’ (aka ‘Old Man Yells at Chair’) speech at the Republican convention”;
– (b) “Rabbi Michael Mayersohn‘s invocation, including ‘We must build a more just and equitable society. We must create a society in which we all care for each other. Yes, we are expected to be our brother’s keeper. The welfare of our enemy is even our concern'”;
– (c) “Truman Award winner Sharon Quirk-Silva‘s declaration of ‘the battle between Republicans and Democrats to really be a fight over “me versus we” philosophies’ – [a sentiment derived] straight from the Democratic convention”;
supported, contradicted, or otherwise had any bearing upon your thesis that “Obama seemed forgotten”?
I’ll try to have some follow-up questions, when next we are in contact, about the “elephant in the room” of the “elephant in the room.”
Note that my interest was in Scott as a writer, albeit a confused and histrionic writer, not in the sort human foibles he focused on in his piece on me. Anyway, my comment apparently made Scott unhappy (and note the absence of a definitive assertion of truth in what I wrote there; compare it to Moxley’s writing!), ultimately leading to this from him:
It’s amusing that you get so incredulous that a reporter wouldn’t read your blogging attempts. I routinely read a cross section of accomplished county political bloggers. Examples: Art Pedroza, Dan Chmielewski, Jon Fleischman, Chris Prevatt, Geoff West, Tony Bushala and Allan Bartlett.
What had left me incredulous, of course, was that the difference between me and these others is that Moxley was not writing a story about them. He had chosen to write about me. That being so, yes, I was incredulous that he would firmly refuse to read anything I’d written here. As for his pride in naming who he reads — well, I’m just going to let that list (which contains some good people) speak for itself!
I think that that will do for now. My working hypothesis at the moment is that Moxley is carrying water for Norby — perhaps as a favor to Norby’s pal Tony Bushala of the FFFF blog — and I suppose we’ll have to get into that mess, which I had hoped to avoid. But if I have to defend my honor, well, so be it.
Moxley just is not aging well as he approaches 50.
Instead of attacking the privileged and powerful, he has become a fawning defender of Republican elected officials, a sort of alt-weekly Mickadeit-style sycophant. Does he smoke cigars,
His attack on you reads like the projection of someone who suffers from profound self-loathing as he looks at the arc of his own career, where he’s still stuck in an underpaid job in a third-rate alt-weekly, living in a crappy little Santa Ana condo in what his own publication describes as the worst effing place in America.
There’s also a noticeable lack of coherent management at the OCWeekly, as they apparently eliminated professional editing and just gave the title to their most successful writer.
The OCWeekly and its sister publications have just been spun off while their parent company keeps the most profitable part of the operation – the online Backpage.com operation estimated to generate 22.7 million a year in revenue. Backpage.com has had consistent pressure for its role in human trafficking and prostitution of minors.
We don’t know whether these alt-weeklies, with their free circulation and tremendous competition for on-line advertising revenue, are profitable or whether they have been subsidized by the revenue from Backpage.com. Maybe it’s time to start an OC Weekly Death Watch.
Yes, Moxley is such a sycophant that he beat up Troy Edgar in his column last week.
It is a tragedy to see what was once OC’s best blog dissolve into crap, all due to the bloviating nonsense of Diamond (and it’s not just my opinion—talk to other OJ contributors, past and present). When he tries to play insider by saying “a friend confides that he apparently called me ‘the worst State Senate Candidate in California ever’ before the headline was changed,” it’s nothing but lies. I’m the editor, I wrote the headlines, and I changed nothing—and we do call you “The Worst CA State Senate Candidate EVER” on the front page of our website. It’s telling of the pathetic state of the OC Dem Party that they even allow you to run under their name.
Gustavo, get a grip on yourself, because this is going to be very hard for you to live down.
What I reported was exactly what my Facebook friend told me when he wrote me in some combination of sympathy and horror late last night to let me know what Moxley had written. Looking at the article later, I discovered that he was apparently mistaken about the title change — but it doesn’t really matter, does it? Thanks for taking credit for the title.
You’ll pardon me, I hope, but several of us are under the impression that OJ is doing just fine these days — not only are our numbers up, but we don’t have the sort of pathetically bullying comments section that other local publicans like yours and the Registers have had, and (2) proud that we’re not just “mean girls” slamming people for their personal flaws and tragedies, as Pedroza did for so long here. That sort of ugliness — still on display sometimes at NSA and OC’Tics, though he seems to have lightened up a bit lately — apparently didn’t bother you, but it sickened many others. That you see THAT as the glory days and THIS as crap says worlds about you.
Let me see, OJ writers past and present: so, Pedroza, Bushala, maybe Willis? It hardly matters, if that’s who’s judging me poorly. Badge of honor.
Are there any other alt-weeklies that make common cause with people of the Wisconsin Republicans, Costa Mesa megalomaniacs, and Fullerton nihilists — or is it just you? Careful, Gustavo — eventually people are going to notice that you and Moxley only go after some Republicans — the more traditional rather than insurgent ones — and that you can’t drink for free on having gone after Mike Carona forever. He’s a sycophant, all right — but of only some of the Republicans, not all of them. He’s doing Travis Allen some good service right now, in fact, isn’t he?
The OC Dem Party looks like it will be in pretty good shape next term — but for you to even look into that would require dumping your prejudices against unions and your contempt for political reformers. Better step carefully, man — the world (me included) appreciates you as a clown, but that means you’re supposed to do a better job of hiding the bile beneath!
P.S. At least ask Moxley about the “my personally volunteering for 3773 hours” charge! How did you let that one get past, you, editor? Did you ask him any questions at all about this story?
Before this went down, I was thinking to myself – wow the blogs (all of them) sure have become boring lately – this is great!
And listen to Gustavo – his recent claim to fame is publishing, name by name, drip by drip, a list of OC people who may have belonged to the Klan 90 years ago. He provides little or no discussion on how that might be relevant to today in OC. He makes wild-ass statements about those people with no corroberation. He makes completely out-of-his-ass assertions about those people and their motives. That is pathetic – Gustavo is pathetic and boring.
I like Moxley-I’m sure he isn’t correct about EVERYTHING in the universe, but who is? But still, he is a good writer and investigative reporter, I don’t feel the above article translates into he is just a good old boy protecting Repubs-I think he has an opinion, sources, facts and certain tools he uses to come to conclusions like most of us. It’s pretty obvious he isn’t looking to win a popularity contest.
Greg, with all due respect, isn’t this the kind of thing you see and are subject to, if you put yourself out there to run for office?
I always loved his work; he helped inspire me to do local political blogging! Then a couple years ago he wrote a worshipful, credulous piece about one of my least favorite local politicians, Costa Mesa’s Jim Righeimer, and I wrote a really nasty response to that: http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2011/03/the-once-great-r-scott-moxley-fluffs-jim-righeimer/
Since then he doesn’t like me. And when I took this blog over from Pedroza and Mill, and Diamond joined us, and Diamond started criticizing Pedroza whenever he wrote something ass-hattish, they apparently went crying to Arse Caught Moxley, who did a piece calling us a … I forget what, something really stupid, it’s all in here: http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/01/r-riggy-fluffer-scott-moxley-calls-us-some-nasty-names-with-poll/
Actually, yeah, you can get to Scott’s column through there, the comments section was actually pretty fun, with me and Diamond against Scott (and SOMETIMES Gustavo). Arse Caught has hated Diamond since then.
Still, this new hit piece on Diamond, I just went and read it… it’s not really that big of a deal. Apart from Arse Caught’s general nastiness… what? He makes fun of Greg for not making that much money, he kind of suggests that Greg’s trying to become State Senator because it pays well, but mostly faults him for not trying hard enough to win, and for instead doing oppo research on another Republican candidate, one that will be much easier to beat. Big fucking deal.
A petty dude, Arse Caught. Funny picture though…
Well, when you put it than way, I guess “worst State Senate candidate ever” is more understandable. The nerve of me, running for office without being rich, feeling the need to tend to both my job and my other political activity, and caring whether my elected representative may have assaulted his wife!
(By the way, $100,000/yr when maintaining two residences is not “pays well.”)
Merijoe, I’m not saying that he couldn’t write it — although I’d prefer he have some respect for facts, for honesty, and for normal journalistic practice. I’m saying that he can’t write it without his errors of fact, judgment, and demeanor being shoved back in his face.
ok, gottcha greg, thanks
Greg Diamond has destroyed this blog and made it unreadable. The incredible narcissism and egomania are not pretty, and not journalism. Just a particularly pathetic spectacle of longwinded self-agrandizement.
Vern, I know its not easy to write everything yourself, but the time has come to do what needs to be done. Cut your losses and let Diamond move on. Somebody this self-obsessed needs their own blog, not to pollute a longstanding blog fixture in the county.
Oh well. We still have the Weekly.
Yeah, destroyed and unreadable. We’re only up about 10,000 page views per month over this time last year.
I have a question for you — if you answer, please feel welcome to stick with your pseudonym. OK: Why do you stick with your pseudonym? Are you afraid that I’m going to punish you in some way if I know who you are? Or is it just safer to throw rocks when you’re behind a ledge?
I’ll add that Greg’s coverage of the Mimi Walters case got us increased statewide attention and jacked up our readership even more.
Oh, so that’s my self-serving agenda! Got it!
The blogs (comments) have been sprinkled with critisisms and complaints of Greg’s canidacy for a while. Complaining that he was more about his own agenda then really competeing, this article was more of the same just by a bigger name.
It’s a shame really, because Diamond has said things like: I’m doing the best I can”, that attitude is disengenuous at best, he’s doing what he’s doing, and there is no chance of winning. Which is unfortunate for progressives. Instead of using his talents and skills sensibly, he’s off on some crazy self-promoting exercise, which does more harm than good. A good example would be his ballot statement.
In the end, Greg has done a great sisservice to Orange County Democrats. But, I think he just wanted attention and to act as an instigator/agitator all along.
Look up Syed Taj and ask yourself again why people file in races where they’ll be the underdog.
I’m curious — what is my supposed self-serving agenda? What do you think I’m getting out of this; what winning candidate do you think I supplanted?
And the same question I ask below: is it fear of my enormous power that makes you want to throw rocks from behind a ledge, or are you just that way naturally?
It worked for the Raiders triumphant return to Oakland (to some degree).
So why not bring Art Pedroza back? that would add a new level of jouralistic standards and ethics.
Besides, imagine the economy it stimulate for libel lawyers and Irvine ambulance chasers. Not to mention the benifit to unknown canidates of parties we’ve never heard of.
But, to be fair, you’d have to bring Stanley back too.
NOTE: Dan, this was a joke, hang up the phone, there is no conspirisy, no need to try further embarass yourself with another suit.
I love the Libertarian Party just as much as Art. I need to post more Gary Johnson odes soon.
Btw Greg I love the stuffed donkey propped up in the cartoon.
That’s it merijoe — you’d better not say anything bad about Gustavo!
“Worst State Senate candidate ever”
Ha ha, that is pretty funny, Greg, you should relish in the spotlight.
It’s an honor in its own way. I just have a sense that it may not be true.
i like the russian sickle n hammer curtain , now i was waiting for anoster and democrap to come out from back there and we got a commi trio …
You have very weird fantasies.
Greg is providing the voters a choice on the ballot. Greg is versed on the issues, educated and involved. Greg Diamond is a skilled and experienced lawyer who will represent the general public’s interests in the State Senate.
Only one problem with that statement – you should change will to would – ’cause he ain’t gonna make it to the State Senate unless he takes the public tour.
Just my two cents, I’ve found Greg’s opinions to be worth reading and often thought provoking. I think Gustavo is a smart guy, but surprisingly thin skinned recently and seemingly unwilling to respond seriously and without insults. Moxley used to be great. Used to be.
That-all sounds … about like MY two cents.
Jon: I’m not thin-skinned at all; I just don’t suffer idiots, especially idiots who ruin great things like what Orange Juice was.
Vern: Same what I told Jon. The two of you live in this fantastical bubble where you actually believe Greg has something to say and his word is valued. Please get out of that bubble, and realize that his bloviating has pushed away those of us who remember this blog’s heyday, when we called it the Best Blog in OC back in 2008. And don’t even try to paint this as if we have it in for the two of you because you’ve criticized us in the past—we’ve gotten into HUGE battles with the LA Times and OC Register (check out our “Bootlicker” archives), yet we continue to read them and even occasionally praise them because they ultimately produce quality stuff every once in a while. Here? Nothing is left to read—I rarely check this blog because I usually find nothing to read whatsoever—instead, all I see is a torrent of smug vomit written by Diamond.
Read this, cabrón: http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/10/cuidado-pulido-a-no-nonsense-mayor-maybe-but-how-about-no-shenanigans/. Or don’t. Others will.
Oh, by the way Gustavo — please consider my noting all of the factual errors in the Moxley piece as a formal request for correction, both online and in the next print version of the Weekly. (You may want to clear out some free time this weekend.)
If you need an example, I never claimed to have personally volunteered for 3773 hours. There’s much more.
I love how Gustavo questions whether or not Greg “has something to say and his word is valued”–right after someone proclaims that he believes Greg has something to say and values his words.
Talk about fantastical bubbles.
Hey Gustavo, did you ever stop to think that there are quite a few people who like THIS incarnation of OJB much better than the Art Pedroza/National Enquirer version?
I didn’t think so.
Wow, that was a lot to digest…I don’t think that I understood a lot of it- probably due to being a newbie and not familiar with both sides. As a new guy, I for one like OJB- maybe I don’t know what I am missing elsewhere. I am one that likely does not have the same views as many on this site (would it really be any good if everyone was saying the same thing all the time?). I also like that we can have some respectful conversations and challenge our thoughts. OJB gets my vote for a good blog- I don’t need to know numbers to see that!
Obviously there are lots of choices in what we read and too little time. As far as GD’s run for senate, it seems like it is somewhat of a lost cause and he knows it, yet is still hoping that he can have an impact. Sometimes victory does not have to be in winning…there may be other smaller victories along the way. Does not seem to be self promotion IMO as a disinterested party, however if that is his goal, GD is not doing a very good job of it. Maybe promotion of his ideas (which are not all that unique compared to other progressives), but not himself as a candidate.
Although, when I saw the hours issue of 3K+, I figured that he just never got away from his time keeping skills as an attorney at a good sized firm…us other time watchers can certainly appreciate that!
Keep it up…
Gettin the OJ bug eh? You and Ryan are our new favorite conservatives. Jeez, you guys remember Willis? Crowley? Even Gilbert? Couldn’t have a rational conversation with them.
I read a few of Willis items (none stick out, but the name is familiar), but not the others…not too familiar with them. However, there are probably a few (not just the conservatives) on the board now also that it is tough to have a rational discussion with.
I enjoy the ‘Ships, too, even though I can’t claim that I always follow what they’re saying.
Once Art turned this into a blog with permanent sidebars slamming his enemies (Prevatt, Gallegos, I think Lucas, I forget who else) for their financial and other problems — which was, to put it mildly, ironic — I had stopped reading OJB. (That’s the stuff that I don’t think continues to exist in the archives, but it was monstrous.) An environment with that much excrement smeared around attracted some awful and vicious commenters, most of whom are now gone and the remaining of whom can be easily lampooned. We’ve replaced them with rational conservatives whose online company I generally enjoy. That’s almost unheard of and it’s what I’m especially proud of here. Vern makes hosting such a party look easy, but it isn’t.
Hey now, I was not calling anyone in particular out!
Don’t worry — the ‘Ships are made of stern stuff!
Absolutely right on Greg – 100% – well said!!
Well, to be fair about timekeeping, Moxley’s allegation was that I had said that I had volunteered for 3773 hours within a time period of 3773 hours — not something ridiculous like 3773 hours out of 3772 hours, which would be impossible.
I really love how this blog has developed over the past year. (I think that right around now is the first anniversary of my first story here; it seems like much longer than that.) We deal with interesting issues in county politics, we can pull off a good crusade (showing influence well beyond our numbers), and we have this bizarre diversity of voices here that all generally get along. I judge the health of a blog largely by its comments section — and what happens in ours generally doesn’t make me cringe, as occurs on the Weekly and elsewhere.
I set out a list of things for myself back in January that I wanted to accomplish by running. I haven’t met the most optimistic projections (which largely depended on extrinsic factors like the continued burgeoning of the Occupy movement rather than its continuing, particularly in OC, at more or less of a steady background level), but I have met the realistic ones. What people like Moxley, Bushala, etc. seem to want from me is not so much to work on my own campaign (they don’t actually care) as to stay out of the groupthink of OC conservative/libertarian/right-wing populist politics, which depends on being able to get everyone singing loudly from the same songbook, making fun of outsiders, and — critically — having those outsiders get discouraged and not withstand what they say and do. I’m happy to have messed that up for them a bit.
As for Moxley — well, his rotten attempt at journalistic character assassination (and protecting Norby) will live on here and be a touchpoint for years. I have to live with some humiliation from people who don’t actually know me, but he has to deal with evidence that his legitimacy as a journalist has been squandered. (Not just in this piece; it just provides a vivid example.) He had a lot of good skills and now he’s left pimping for the far right wing and still loudly proclaiming himself to be a scourge of Republicans. I feel badly for him (and for Gustavo, who has to defend him.)
Mr Moxley may have not been pleased with your disagreement on the Obama references at the DP dinnner. However the personal references was an assasination character. I am a newcomer to this world of bloggers. This blog allows us to have a civilized exchange of ideas, and to advocate to improve whatever one thinks need to be improved. I am sure you wil clarify/explain, and if you have already, please let me know where, the issue of looking into Mr Norby’s private life.
I’m working on that one. It’s hard to write, because I hadn’t wanted to write it. The short story is that I turned in a public records request because I heard from multiple sources that Norby had been engaged in a significant act of domestic violence, but that the FPD had covered it up. I didn’t (and still don’t) know if it was true, but I had been told that there were pictures and a witness, who had been named, so I had hoped to determine whether the former really existed and to speak to the latter about what he saw. They said that I had no right to see any such records or even to confirm that they existed, so I shelved it. (They looked like they were right on the law; I’d never tried to make one before so I didn’t know that it was not going to be allowed. Or, maybe there was a way to do it after all, but I didn’t know it.)
FFFF found out about and tried to embarrass me (or actually they were aiming for Sharon Quirk-Silva’s campaign, but no one from there was involved) by publishing the fact that I had made a public records request — repeat a PUBLIC RECORDS request — about Norby. So then I started writing it again — but I didn’t feel good about it, so eventually I stopped and shelved it again. Now this came out, implying that I was unjustified, etc., so I will obviously have to write the full story after all. That does not please me, but I’m sort of pushed into a corner at this point. I don’t understand why they have so badly wanted to get me to publish it.
Moxley is right that I shopped the story to him — not as in “print this lurid allegation!” but as in “I’ll tell you what I know, in confidence, and where my investigation of it was stymied, so maybe with your professional skills you can get around it.” I had presumed that, as a professional journalist, Moxley would think that the question of whether a public representative had committed an act of domestic violence against his newly pregnant wife that was then covered up by the then-Chief of Police himself was something of actual social importance; apparently, to coin a word opposite to one George W. Bush coined, I “misoverestimated” him.
That’s the gist of it. They’re now going to say that by writing about it I was trying to derail Norby’s campaign. The truth is, I’ve been trying pretty hard not to write about it until and unless I got more sound evidence than I have. I’ve already withstood repeated provocations on FFFF about it; by Moxley’s story really forces my hand. I hope he gets what he wanted from doing so.
“I am sure you wil clarify/explain .. the issue of looking into Mr Norby’s private life.”
I am a conservative Repubican and I would prefer Norby in his position over any liberal dem. However, to a certain extent, the private life of public officials becomes fair game – ask Bill Clinton. This not so much about Norby’s private life as it is about looking into a possible cover-up by police of an offense which should have seen the light of day. If the FPD covered for Norby, as a member of the public, I would like to know about it – I (we) have a right to know about it. If I were Greg I would tell the FFFFers and Moxley to fuck off.
Interesting, Junior.
Is David Benavides Marital affair “Fair Game”?
Nobody wants to pick this up except for NSA. NO matter what the motives, it is a story with legs.
Before we say: “Yeah but that’s Pedroza” consider this
Everyone said “Yeah, its the National Enquirer” regarding the John Edwards affair. Which we now know to be true, which very likely would have ended up in a Hillary victory in Iowa and thus the nomination. In otherwords, we must give these stories consideration. ESPECIALLY, when the canidate in question does EVERYTHING humanly possible to avoid them. READ: DAVID BENAVIDE’S.
I am stunned by the attention paid to some things and the ignorance of others, let’s read a real OJB article criticizing pensions and unions, realistically, instead we read the rah rah writings of those championing guys like Benavides???
BAD FORM.
I don’t know whether he (or Pulido, for that matter) has had an affair. If it affected his performance on Council, I might care about it. If not, then it’s really between him, his wife, and (for those so inclined) God.
Pulido’s getting rich while Santa Ana sputtered, if at all inappropriate, is between him, his wife, everyone else in Santa Ana and many people beyond it, and God.
A couple of thoughts (and yes my initial thoughts on this were peaked by the Lomeli vs. Pedroza war, but made me consider it a little more intensely).
1) If you don’t know what happened, shouldn’t you ask? Isn’t it incumbant upon you to report fairly? Maybe not, this isnt the LOC, where they fancy themselves as “cub reporters” not bloggers (satire). But, seriously, has anybody asked abot the “Family Dog” Comment or “with the Fam” posts, at the least, if true David is misleading people.
2) It absolutely has an effect on his job at City Hall, for a few reasons: 1) integrity, if true and he lied to his wife, as good Christian he should believe his relationship with his wife is only second to that with God, and if he is willing to lie to cover that up, what would he do to residents. Secondly, this sort of behavior is ripe for explotation, do you think for a minute the SAPOA would play fairly with this info (if non-public), Shit look what they did to the guy in Costa Mesa. This is REAL and put’s taxpayers at risk. Lastly, I find it incredibly hypocritical, that Benavides has staked his claim as being a director for at risk youth, many “Fatherless” and form “Broken homes and put’s his on children in a similar situation.
But, let me ask this, The topic of this post had to do with another Canidates marital woes, in that you wrote: “Right now, I’d be satisfied with an ironclad pledge from Norby that if his wife leaves him and asserts that he committed domestic violence against her within a year of the election, he’d immediately resign the seat. Does that seem fair? If he did that, I’d happily drop the issue between now and the election.”
Would you hold that same standard to Benavides, if his wife were to file for divorce in November?
Finally, I am driven more by the late-breaking scandals of Tom Umberg, and near disaster of John Edwards. That’s what interests me: electing a representitive with some measure of integrity.
In my story of last night I discuss possible profiteering on his position as Mayor by Pulido. I find it amazing that you would discuss a possible private affair by Benavides in the same category or context than that. That’s so far from rational — as I give you credit for usually being — that I can only presume that you just want to change the subject for political reasons.
As for Norby, I’m working on that piece today. Norby was reportedly accused by a witness of a violent physical assault on his newly pregnant wife. In answer to your question: if Benavides’s wife filed for divorce because he physically assaulted her, then yes, I would hold him to the same standard. Otherwise, I think that the question is absurd.
Whatever happened with that whole thing with the wife – Martha Norby, right? – supporting SQS on Facebook or something? I remember that came down after a few days of controversy, but I don’t remember anyone saying it was a hoax. Did Martha just get a good scolding?
No, that appears to have been real. I’ll try to remember to address it in my story.
Man, I so wanted to stay away, but I’ll admit, it’s addicting.
You have a point, but, I don’t remember comparing Benavide’s marriage to anything related to Pulido’s tenure.
I do not support Pulido. I have known Miguel for many years and was never in his corner, but I have grown to like and respect him as a person. I realize that many critisisms about him are character (his tardieness, which has been mentioned repeatedly), some here will remember way back when I would bitch about his kids being late to school and his arrival at Santiago. With that being said, I don’t disagree with those critical of his management style.
But, i do think, change for the sake of change is usually not a good idea. I think that Benavides has not proved himself, I question his academic ability, his lack of leadership skills and again, his truthfulness. He has been clever (smart) so far in not aknowleging the rumor. But, like I DID SAY: “sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t”.
As for the absurd, it doesn’t bother me that you think that way. I think SQS suggesting homeless people need socks, or Lori Galloway putting elephant rights above her cities pressing issues, Bill Campbell claiming ignorance in the Bustamonte and Daly issues.
We can agree to disagree on this, but, I would have felt much more empowered as a voter if I had been aware of Edwards affair, Umbergs affair had I known the truth before hand. They same thing can be said about Tom Daly.
Like I said, I just wish someone would have the balls to ask him if he’s married and where his wife and kids live.
Pedroza has weighed in with this comment on his blog, in a story entitled “The OC Weekly’s Moxley wrecks 29th S.D. candidate Diamond”:
I hope that people will drink in the implications of that paragraph. Pedroza thinks that one should not mess with Moxley because Moxley will retaliate. In other words, don’t antagonize a bully or you’ll get hurt. (It’s how Drudge-wannabe Pedroza hopes the world works, anyway.)
I take exception, though, to his choice of the word “expose.” Moxley didn’t write an expose, which exposes unknown facts. He wrote a hatchet job — no investigation, no unearthing of hidden facts, and I’ve already noted the shoddy job that he did of simply reporting what facts he encountered.
Moxley may well be “the OC Weekly’s top investigative reporter” — if the others don’t do investigative reporting.
It’s not lost on me that ALL blog subjects, here and at the Liberal OC twist and gring back to Art Pedroza.
He’s the Jim Morrison/jerry garcia of the OC Blogesphere.
And knowingly or not the ghost keeps being invited back.
Pedroza is more like dog doody that sticks to your shoe and you are not aware of it, but you wonder – what the hell is that stink and why won’t it go away?
Yeah well like itor not you let the dog in your yard!
So should we blame the dog or the guy who opened the gate?
Blame me for what?
And Pedroza went nuts AFTER I supported him – against Carlos Bustamante – in 2008.
I told you guys, that you were too sophisticated for some of us. This is a Romney-wesque way of saying some of your pieces are booooooooring..some of them too long or too short. Your pieces on Anaheim are some of the best. The OCWeekly guys are mean,does not SanRoman write for them?I hope you will take some of the criticism posted in your blog and in the Weekly in a positive way : no hay mal que por bien no venga…meaning, every cloud has a silver lining. This is a desmadre and mishegas!
If they bore you, stop reading. If they’re too short, as for more. We wish GSR well in his writing endeavors; the sooner he takes over the Weekly, the better. If it was nothing but ads for paid sexual partners, it would be boring too, so they do need him.
Greg
Your response does not sound kohser. How do you like that? I am learning Yiddish phrases through Google. I am learning somethng new, thanks to your blog.
I also like reading Boutwell posts, that guy knows his stuff! Seriously, Scott Maxley is making a you a meshugener. How can you dismiss the OCW as advertisment for paid sexual arragenments.They are doing us a favor, reducing the prostitution market in Beach Blvd. Whether the paper’s owners may be promoting human trafficking and minor’s prostitution, as an earlier post suggested, it is a serious, thing. Financing mass alternatives media is difficult. Most of the free Spanish newspapers are advertisement for the beer companies. And now even Big Bird is being threatened by Romney, It is a mishegas world. You seem to be a gordito simpatico,good with words, but do not mess around with my homeboy Gustavo. He is one of my local heroes, ese, from my hometown. Him and David Amin, el ruco from Los Amigos . They may not like each other. The point is that Gustavo has written hard hitting pieces on the KKK and Joh Birchers of Anaheim, and on the whitiest man alive, Curt Pringle. So Greg, cool it and give us the scoop on Norby and Tom Umberg’s escandalos. Shalom and be a mentsh. Hasta la vista baby!
We need facebook-like for great comments like that.
I wish you luck with your forays into Yiddish. Better luck, even.
I enjoy Boutwell’s writing a lot. I haven’t been able to follow his debate with others here closely just because of other things to do, but from what I’ve read it looks nice and substantive. I love seeing intelligent people work to suss out a point.
I heard on the radio a week or two back a story that said something like that Village Voice publications had just broken into two subgroups: 13 free weeklies that will feature ads from advertiser Backpage.com (which I believe specializes in sex and drugs), including OCW, have new owners;other portions of the old Village Voice media are doing something.
Now before Gustavo jumps in and screams about it — this is just a secondhand report. From the online Weekly itself, you got the story that they have new owners, but I don’t recall it getting into “will/won’t take Backpage.com ads” as the basis of the split. Finding out and writing about the Voice Media split has been on my long list of things to write about, but it’s not particularly high on that list. For one thing, it takes some time — and I’d like to do a better job of getting my facts straight than Moxley did. I share your opposition to human trafficking (even though I think that Prop 35 is really badly drafted.)
As for the last part — yes, financing alt-media is hard. Still, it doesn’t justify either abetting human trafficking or being utter assholes.
I don’t like the the Weekly is apparently now in a lip-lock with Bushala and I find Gustavo’s political analysis usually superficial and skewed. (Often it’s “Republicans are rotten in these three ways — and by the way the Democrats are worse.” Not much analysis there; he’s missing big stories out of a combination of egotism and lack of interest.
The anti-union bias — as if union reform or union restraint are impossible, and as if the biggest problem in our society is union workers getting overpaid as opposed to the rich scamming the rest of us out of our wealth — of the Weekly is absurd. He should sit down with union officials, ask tough questions, and think through the answers before reacting reflexively like a scorpion.
That said: Gustavo is smart, funny, a good writer, and an effective self-merchandiser. I’ll also give him credit for being an editor who is loyal to his writers and a man loyal to his friends. But if he doesn’t spread out that story and rub Moxley’s nose in the factual errors, he’s not doing his job. No news organization benefits from coddling a prima donna.
Nobody is perfect, and yes Gustavo has his flaws, but overall his heart is in the right place, like you and Vern. It is too bad disagreements among people who share common long term goals are not discussed in a more fraternal and respectful manner. Now Greg, you know that Orange County is famous for being very conservative. It is though to carve a place for quality non-conservative leaders. Look what the DP has produced, with a few exceptions, bland and as bad or worse than conservatives. Brandman, Daley, Correa, Sanchez, Solorios and so on. The conservative values or positions rub even into good people like Vern. Read his piece where he described the last contract of the Anaheim City Employees in terms that may please anti-union conservatives like Cynthia Ward, but failed to address the same points you make about Gustavo . Greg, el mundo esta loco,loco, loco.
I like Boutwell so much that I want him to prepare my tax returns. Oh wait, I am one of the 47 percenters!
You’re absolutely right. I think that Gustavo’s heart is generally in the right place (and probably Moxley’s too), but they’re not taking the seriousness of the threat to the very existence of public unions seriously enough — especially given their positions of cultural influence. Their “pox on both Democrats’ and Republicans’ houses” stance may be pleasing to cynical readers and wealthy iconoclasts like Bushala, but it really doesn’t help to change OC for the better. I expect better from an alt-weekly because it’s supposed to be somewhat subversive to power — think of the Village Voice at its best. I’m not angry at their going after me, but in this target-rich of a county I do feel contemptuous about their making such a safe choice.
An alt-weekly defines cultural opposition and helps determine what is cool. They’ve chosen to use that influence by embracing dipshit chest-thumping trickle-down, deregulatory, service-slashing ideology from the likes of Righeimer and Bushala (the latter of whom I at least respect for his social and civil libertarianism.) Neither of them could actually defend that stance in an actual rational argument even if they had a spray can full of Justice Scalia in their pockets. They act like it shows that they’re rebels, yet they’re doing exactly what the people with the most power want them to do. That behavior is puerile and sad and a ripe target for derision.
They should live up to the journalistic legacy of their form instead of being self-indulgent posers. You know what? Doing a demeaning nude portrait of a politician is a fine blunt tool in the alt-journalistic toolbox. If I have real power and am really abusing it, I don’t think I have a decent argument that they shouldn’t use it, even if I wouldn’t.
But did they pull that trick on one of the 500 most powerful political figures leaders in Orange County? No, chose to target me — because they are frightened bullies who want to punch down rather than take on another righteous cause like Carona — for the offense of … not campaigning hard enough for office? Requesting public records about a possible crime by a public official? They don’t even have the grace to admit that the reason I was chosen for the nuclear bomb treatment is because I’m willing to criticize them to their faces, not willing to back down after I do, and not willing to take the hint that “I had better not cross Scott Moxley ’cause he’ll get his revenge.”
You’re right about some of the bland Democratic figures in OC (although the more I learn about how OC politics really works the more respect I gain for Loretta. I have hopes for Brandman too, who might learn a great lesson about the advantages of righteous populism if he loses this election.) I’ve been out there slugging away with them the last two years, while they stay safely in their office and snicker. So then where was this level of lampoon for the likes of Solorio? Or hey, I’ve heard that Republicans have some power here — where’s the nude Scott Baugh? We don’t get it from them. Actually tweaking those with power would be dangerous for them. Putting up a nude depiction of me must have seemed easy or safe.
(Or so they wrongly thought.)
So yeah, I’d love there to be rapprochement between all politically interested people of good will in the county. At this point, though, it seems a bit more remote than it did a few days ago, don’t you think?
Thanks Dora and Greg for the pat on the back! Remember, even those in the 47% still need to often file and a large portion of them get their withholding back and often even more than that due to credits. For easy returns, do it yourself software will do the trick.
Regarding your last response posted at 7:26 PM ( I did not see the Reply button), I get your point. It is not that you were not campainging, in a sacrificial lamb campaing anyway, or that you were “obsessed” with Norby. You had a secret goal : to become a player in local politics. How pompous of you! The Weekly is wrong, and one of Gustavo’s flaws is not to recognize when they are wrong. Enough said.
The blog comment format only indents something like five times. That is supposed to discourage us from doing what we’re going.
I’d like to perform a service to Orange County. Removing Huff from office would be a service. Messing him up somewhat would also be a service. Promoting Democratic candidates and progressive causes generally and helping to register and turn out voters and yet other services. “Becoming a political player” is more of an effect of doing good service than its own goal. As I’m already on the party’s Executive Board, for which I do not speak, what will be will be.
Gustavo has not written hard hitting pieces on the KKK – he has published a list of people who may have been members of the Klan and made non-sensical comments about them – that’s it – nothing hard hitting about it.
Well, you have to admit it — whatever those guys did, now they’re never going to do it again!
Special to “Political Theater”: I don’t know if Vern had approved your long comment containing the short play, but I’m putting it in the meat freezer until and unless he decides to takes it out.
I respect the hard work and craft that you put into it, but it’s not my cup of tea given the sort of discussion I hope to see here. If we don’t post it, I’m sure that someone else will. Maybe the Weekly?
Of course, it’s up on FFFF.
Well, then I’m all that much happier that I spiked it here.
Greg – You are correct, the people Gustavo listed as possible KKK members are never going to do it again; they have been dead for decades.
Never mess up one of my subtle jokes again, sir.
Both of you missed the subtle point. KKK is also used for the ghosts or legacy of these racists. They were present in the killing at Anna Drive : Krazy Kops. I leave the last K for you to decipher.
Also I think it’s valuable for us to be reminded how not-so-long-ago this kind of behavior was accepted. These are our grandparents, pretty much, and belonging to the Klan was apparently not so out of the norm less than a century ago.
It makes you think, among other things, what is accepted NOW that will seem equally outrageous in a couple generations? Maybe, counting corporations as people? Maybe, clinging to a private health insurance industry that kills and bankrupts us? Maybe allowing unlimited and anonymous political donations? Maybe not letting American adults marry whomever they feel like?
“Residents of Anna Drive acknowledged the crime and the constant patrolling in their neighborhood. “Only at night many people don’t like to be out because there are a lot of gang members, and it’s scary,” said Lorena Barillas in Spanish. “But if you mind your own business, they won’t bother you.”
So was there a metaphysical presence of MS-13 present on Anna Dr. as well?
Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/07/28/anaheim-shootings-shed-light-on-divide-between-officials-and-community/#ixzz28iOS60Bi
And you’re arguing that summary execution and shooting pepper balls at protesting resident witnesses helps things how, exactly?
Apparently, I have no life. But I wanted to be commenter 88! Heil Hitler! Just Kidding DWEEEEEbs!