.
It is SO important for kids to be able to ride on elephants at the Orange County Fair.
How important is it?
Important enough to justify torturing these sensitive and intelligent wild animals, from a very young age, with million-volt electric prods and “bullhooks,” as shown in this clandestine video:
No, it is NOT possible to get these huge wild animals to stand still and behave with a bunch of human kids on their backs, WITHOUT extensively putting them through the torments shown above. But thanks for asking about that – just the thought shows that you are a kind person.
The nice couple you see in the video tormenting the pachyderms? That’s Gary and Kari Johnson, of Perris-based “Have Trunk Will Travel” (HTWT), and they’ve had a contract with the OC Fairgrounds for over 25 years. Times are getting tougher for them, as they’ve been losing clients left and right, the more publicity their brutal but necessary methods receive. So, they fight like badgers to keep their few remaining contracts – like the ones with the OC and San Diego Fairs.
Yes, the electric shocks are literally a million volts, or to be precise, 970,000. And the sharp bullhooks that they strike/scrape them with in the sensitive parts of their bodies – eyes, ears, armpits, underside, genitals – leave scars and rips that are covered up with a special powder so as not to distress civilians. And at night they’re put in chains.
If you ever take these elephant rides, or watch these shows, you won’t see the animal being mistreated, but you will ALWAYS see the trainer standing there with bullhook or electric prod in hand, in full view of the animal, just to keep it in fear and remind it of the last pain it endured.
But, still, it’s all worth it, I guess, because it is just so important for kids to be able to ride on the backs of elephants.
How ELSE important is it, for kids to ride elephants?
Well, it’s important enough to ignore the danger to riders and spectators, to ignore the liability incurred by a client such as the Orange County Fairgrounds. Foot-draggers on our Board and staff shrug, “Nothing bad has happened YET,” and so perhaps nothing may, for some time into the future. But the relentless PETA has compiled a list of 86 incidents – in the US alone, and from 1990-2011 alone, where elephants went out of control and became violent, causing 15 deaths and over 135 injuries.
The folklore is correct that elephants have uncanny memories and hold grudges, and sometimes suddenly can’t take any more humiliation and pain, and will lash out at their tormentor and anyone else who’s standing in the way. The folklore is also correct that they are humongous.
But still, despite the inescapable cruelty involved, and the liability and risk of injury to humans, it’s still CRUCIAL that our kids get to ride on the backs of wild elephants, especially at the Orange County Fair!
Wait – did I miss something?
WHY is it so important for kids to ride elephants?
Good question. The answer seems to be, if you listen to the arguments of the trainers and their apologists, the vague and unquantifiable value of “keeping contact with endangered species.” Yes. That is well worth zapping said species with a million volts and ripping said species’ flesh. Poor endangered things.
Well, the Fair DOES make some money off these rides. Not ALL that much, really – $11,800 last year. But I’m sure that’s worth taking the risk of having the OC Fairgrounds being the setting for the next disastrous rampage.
And there’s habit, and loyalty. From what I hear, the Johnsons of HTWT can really open up a can of Charm-ass when they’re with the human beings who hold the purse strings. As I’ve said, they’ve been servicing these Fairs for a quarter century now, and they get to be like family to longer-tenured Board members.
But last year, the AZA (Association of Zoos and Aquariums) recently changed its policies to prevent this treatment of elephants at zoos. The policy change doesn’t go into effect for two more years, but it did give cover for the Santa Ana Zoo to get with the new humaneness and drop the rides for good last December.
So, really. Now that you bring it up. Maybe it’s actually NOT so important for kids to be able to ride on the backs of wild elephants at the OC Fair. Hm…
2011 – a deaf ear turned by CEO Beazley and the Ellis Board

*cough* Beazley.
So, last year, animal rights activist Matt Rossell of Animal Defenders International (the fellow who was smart enough to contact yours truly a month ago) approached the Orange County Fair Board to ask them to consider breaking their contract with HTWT for elephant rides at that year’s Fair. The Board, then chaired by Dave Ellis, listened politely, and one director (Matt doesn’t remember which one) instructed Fair CEO Steve Beazley to “look into the matter.” And Dr. Beazley said okay, he’d do just that.
It’s hard to say what Dr. Beazley (who’s been referred to as a “failed actor turned Bad Actor” due to his complicity in the Great Fairgrounds Swindle) actually did after that. Maybe he had a word with the Johnsons of HTWT, who re-assured him as they do that the elephants are very happy, that their critics are crazy lying extremists, and that the video doesn’t show what it seems to show. Or maybe even less than that happened, maybe nothing. All we know is when Matt checked in with him, Beazley told him, “I didn’t mean to give you the impression that we were going to actually conduct an investigation.”
Oh.
Beazley continued in a similar vein: “I’ve watched these shows and rides many times, and I’ve never seen any abuse.”
Well, of course not, Doctor, that’s not the kind of thing they would do in public. And if it was just us strangers telling you that that’s what your friends do, you could maybe have an excuse to be skeptical. But we HAVE SHOWN YOU THE VIDEO. Morally vacant twerp.
Showdown coming up Thursday at 10!
So, at this Thursday’s 10 am Fair Board meeting, we’ve got all our ducks in a row. We’ve got experts coming in to testify on the cruelty of the elephants’ treatment, and the liability the Fairgrounds has opened itself up to. Of course the Johnsons are also going to bring in THEIR paid experts, to swear that the elephants are real happy, that we’re a bunch of crazy lying extremists, and that the video doesn’t show what it shows.
But Dr. Beazley is on his way out, and in any case I’m 90+% sure we’ve got a majority on the Board this time. All four Brown appointees are with us – Nick’s my point man, Ashley is a female mensch, Gerardo’s the same guy who stopped the rides at the SA Zoo, and I think I can say with a fair amount of certainty that if Barbara Venezia’s husband doesn’t vote with the elephants he’ll be sleeping on the couch. That leaves the five Schwarzenegger appointees, only three of whom – Dave Ellis, Kristina Dodge, and current chairwoman Joyce Tucker – have been around long enough to develop a rapport with the hinky Johnsons. And as for Joyce Tucker – well, to paraphrase The Godfather, “Let me worry about Luca Brasi Chairwoman Joyce Tucker.”
So if you’re a betting man or woman, bet that the Orange County Fair Board is going to join the civilized world on Thursday by ending the barbaric practice of elephant rides. So long, Gary and Kari Johnson! Now, grab your Trunks and Travel!
[PS The Godfather / Luca Brasi / Joyce Tucker reference is not a threat; just an allusion to the fact that we got smart and talked to Chairwoman Joyce FIRST.]
UPDATE THURSDAY: Rides ended! Only Dave Ellis dissents.
Well, that was the biggest crowd I’ve seen at a Fair board meeting since the height of the outrage over the Swindle – like, 2009. Was only a couple minutes late, and could not get in. (Well, eventually, due to some friends.) I assumed most of the eighty or so speakers were opponents of the rides, but as it turned out only about half were. The Johnsons brought a LOT of friends. It was strange, most of them had a sort of carny look. One of them actually wore clown shoes.
It was interesting, to think about the arguments they tried to use against us. Well, first of all, they all swore up and down what wonderful people the Johnsons are and how CLEAN their ranch is. Everybody vouched for the cleanness. And we were just dilettantes who didn’t really care about the animals like actual trainers do, and we have our own agenda whatever that is.
It’s always necessary to find a way to demonize your opponents, so a lot of them told stories about PETA, a group that admittedly has used some extreme tactics and takes some extreme positions. I believe we had one speaker from PETA on our side, but 95% of us were just regular folks who followed the issue and cared about the elephant abuse, and the danger. After a while I said, “Can we just vote LATER about whether or not we like PETA?”
They all criticized the above video for being “out of context” and “edited.” Of course it’s edited – it’s obviously a collection of the most abusive moments from hours worth of footage. But what sort of “context” would have made it better? Of COURSE the Johnsons don’t spend MOST of their time abusing their elephants – that’s like saying “The clergy’s not so bad, the vast bulk of their time is spent NOT fucking boys and girls!” Their criticisms of our video were especially funny once they showed theirs, a feelgood, narrated tour of their compound with a happy music track.
Many of them also warned of a “slippery slope” – that once the Board caved in and got rid of elephant rides, it would be only a matter of time before we demanded they get rid of horses, not let people train their dogs, etc. Of course they ignored the fact that dogs and horses are domestic animals which elephants are not.
So, Nick took the lead, spoke of our “evolution” and how humanity eventually grows past things like slavery and elephant rides, and also brought up the dangers and liability issue. The latter is mostly what Gerardo, Stan, Joyce and Doug LaBelle talked about.
Nick’s motion, seconded by Gerardo, was to terminate elephant rides at the Fair. Dave Ellis objected. First he pointed out that the Fair has a “4G” ride which has to be MUCH more dangerous than any elephants, but we put a lot of trust in the engineers. Then he talked about how much he loves his wife and kids, and how they – well, except for his wife – love the elephant rides, and love having their pictures taken on them, even though it costs *grumble* ten bucks a pop! He offered a substituted motion, that a subcommittee be formed (shades of the Swindle) and make the field trip out to the Johnsons’ ranch to see how wonderful and clean it really is.
And then came the moment I’d been waiting for – Chairwoman Joyce Tucker (who in the past had joined the rest of the Board in doing Dave’s bidding as though in a trance) told the story of how her 4-year-old granddaughter had almost fallen off an elephant – there at the Fair, just two years ago. Dave’s motion died for lack of a second, and Nick’s passed 6-1. (Kristina Dodge and that young Persian-American fellow were absent.)
So, did you bet like I told you to? Next time, listen to me!
When I was a kid I remember riding the Elephant at the zoo, waiting in line, climbing the stairs to the little platform and sitting on the hard backbone of a swaying beast. The ride was short and fun to me then, but it was no highlight of my youth. I could have never ridden an elephant and not lost a moments’ regret – it was nothing compared to Disneyland’s Matterhorn years later.
Learning of the elehants’ “training” is plenty of convincing to me now, and not because I’m older and crankier — humans have many better options for entertainment nowadays.
This practice seems anachronistic — so to make this more in line with the times I suggest bringing back more outhouses, more dogfights and cockfighting, especially for the Fair. And who wouldn’t love bringing the kiddies the experience of leeches applied to them, bloodletting and being locked in wooden stocks and having the crowd throw jeers and produce at them?
Will the Fair bring back freak shows and dancing bears? I’m going to price tar and feathers — this election will be more memorable this fall now!
I knew the Johnson family very well. For awhile I lived with them, traveled with them. I was a boy then, maybe 15-16 yrs old. I’m 60 now. So many terrible atrocities did I witness that were enacted by the Johnson’s upon various animals on their so-called “ranch” located then in southern Orange County.
One of my recurring memories while I lived/traveled with either Gary or, usually, his brother Larry was when Larry and I traveled to Sacramento. That year the Johnson’s had a petting zoo there. As well, Larry was helping the Sacramento Zoo elephant personnel, teaching him how to train their elephants (we stayed at one of the Sacramento Zoo’s elephant personnel’s home while we were there).
And while there, while at the Sacrament Zoo though behind the public’s prying eyes, I witnessed Larry Johnson literally beat to its knees and into complete submission a fully grown elephant, doing so with the blunt end of an elephant hook described perfectly in the above article and pictured in the video, the handle of which was hickory wood; Larry was in a complete rage at the time.
I’ll never forget that incident, nor any of the other too many horrific, mind-numbing reprehensible incidents I witnessed the Johnson’s enact upon animals; I’ll take the memories regretfully to my grave.
I’ve been on elephant rides twice that I recall — once in India in 1995 and once in Cambodia in 2007. (This was before I heard of this information.) They were both interesting and it was nice to touch an elephant. Neither was worth supporting this sort of torture. I no more need to have ridden an elephant to make my life complete than I need to have ridden a dolphin.
So let’s put elephant rides in the past with other things of youth, like leaded gasoline and Red Dye #2 and DDT, that once may have made sense to some people but that with greater knowledge of the costs make sense no longer.
Yeah, it’s a little different in India or Cambodia where you have a millenia-long tradition that’s not gonna change any time soon, and the local economy is dependent on the use of these animals. I wouldn’t even feel guilty about riding on an elephant there.
It’s different here in the US, where we don’t HAVE to do this, and where the possibility is at hand to end the custom altogether.
Wow, that is one of the most chickensh*t things I have ever seen posted here.
So, despite your vitriolic rant about Ellis and Beasley, you don’t find elephant rides actually MORALLY wrong.
Elephant rides are okay overseas where they don’t know any better? Sounds like the same kind of logic sex tourists use.
“I would never sleep with a 10 year old here, but in certain parts of Asia it is a millenia-long tradition, and the local economy is dependent upon the sexual exploitation of children. It’s almost expect of you. Blah blah blah.”
I am all for getting rid of the rides, but exploiting this issue to further your “destroy Ellis and Beasley at any cost” mission is pretty shameful when you don’t truly believe that elephant rides are wrong. Pick a lane or get off the road.
That’s not how I read it. First, the comment was directed at me and my long-ago elephant rides (which, it may surprise you to know, are a different moral area than sexual tourism, for God’s sake.) I think that Vern was kindly telling me that I should not feel guilty about having taken those two rides rather than saying “woo-hoo, free for all in Asia.”
He’s right that it will be easier to eradicate the practice here, where (1) most of us reading this are and (2) it’s not a native practice embedded in the local culture. So however one might think about the trade-offs between animal cruelty and local custom there, those trade-offs are barely even present here.
A bit sensitive on the Ellis/Beasley point, aren’t you? I’ve talked to Vern about this, and I think he’s disgusted by the treatment of elephants here. Is your argument that the presence of Ellis and Beasley requires the continuation of elephant rides?
(I’m fixing your typo and eliminating your correction, by the way.)
Exactly. There’s nothing we can do to get rid of elephant rides in places where they’ve been going for millennia and are an important part of the local economy. There is plenty we can do to stop them here. And I don’t know for sure that Cambodian and Indian trainers use the same harsh methods that American trainers use anyway; perhaps it’s the case that elephants there have been bred for so long to be subservient somehow. I don’t know. Can’t do anything about it. Can do something here.
Sex tourism – really reaching dude. You’re right though that I like any chance to tweek Ellis and Beazley – although Ellis was barely even mentioned in this post, as I don’t even know of him doing anything wrong here (short of not jumping up and bellowing “END THIS OUTRAGE!”) I’m hoping he votes with the majority – who knows, it could be unanimous!
@Vern You say you wouldn’t feel guilty about riding an elephant in Cambodia/India well maybe you should. Take a look at the following link and see how they ‘break’ young elephants who have been torn away from their mothers in order to fulfill the tourist trade of elephants.
When you’ve watched the footage you may want to change your mind about not feeling guilty! No matter where elephants are used, they are abused for mans entertainment for $$$$$.
Don’t know why it won’t let you put up the link, Jeanie. E-mail it to me at ChezVern@aol.com and I’ll put it up.
But again, baby steps. We can end elephant abuse in America. I’m not sure what your plan is for Cambodia.
I don’t ride cows or chickens. I eat them.
I don’t eat elephants, I ride them.
What do you want to do for the elephants? eat them elephant burgers, or let them die out as a species for lack of any need.
I find it hard to believe that you don’t ride chickens, cook.
You think that the difference between elephants dying out as a species or not is whether we get to ride some of them? You actually think this?
Is there another way that we could prevent their extinction?
I’m trying to comprehend the mind that would make such a vapid comment.
Don’t be so hard on him; he feels the same way about people.
Remember that Cook is ONE of our commenters who has the bad habit of not even reading the stories he comments on, but reacts to the title and pictures. Ready, fire aim!
Cook, You are a moron? What level of education do you have?
Lorraine, Do you have a irrational fear of elephants or just hate zoo animals all together?
Look back, back in your past to the time you had your picture taken on the pony, and remember the joy of sharing some time with the animals.
Actually Cook, I worked in the zoo industry for many years. I do know first hand that animals are abused behind the scenes After viewing the video of the Johnson’s electrocuting and hitting their elephants with bullhooks from the time they were babies clearly shows abuse of animals. My joy of riding an elephant is not nearly as important as the welfare of animals.
People should dig deep into their heart and soul and really ask themselves that same question,”Is animal abuse worth a few minutes of entertainment?” I think not. And I am sorry to have called you a moron. Please accept my apology. I was just frustrated with you not seeing the big picture and not feeling compassion for helpless animals.
No problem, apology accepted.
Cook, I meant, you are a moron. There should not have been a ? there.
Your lack of information about Elephants is pretty depressing. If you only feed your needs you’ll end up………..well as you are, just taking and taking until everything is gone. It’s interesting to me that you have such strong opinions. Have you travelled to Africa or Asia to visit free roaming Elephants? Not talking about trained and captive Ele’s, I’m speaking about Elephants in the wild.
Because, I have, I’ve gone to Africa three times over 25 years. And you know what, once you are standing on their land and you watch them in their large family groups having LIFE and lots of it~you realize that no matter how many visits to the zoo you have had, you’ve never really been around an Elephant until you visit them on their turf. Because, tragically, Elephants in zoos and circuses have lost hope and are not functioning like an Elephant, they are a shell of themselves.
And guess what, Elephants have as much a right to live on our Earth as You do. For better or for worse, YOU were born just like they were.
Unlike you, they are the farmers of the Earth and here’s why:
They eat the Acacia seeds of the trees and when they poop, their poop acts as fertilizer and it sprouts a new Acacia tree, and, even though you know everything, I’ll add that this little action actually creates a brand new forest and all the animals and the people rely on these trees for their survival in many ways. So, I guess they have a purpose that is more like a magic show, cause, last time I checked us humans can’t organically create a forest or anything else.
So I guess you are right after all, unless a species can offer something or be worth eating they will go extinct! Uh Oh, watch out, us human takers might be the next extinct thing!
I was employed at Have a Trunk Will Travel and just couldn’t deal with some of the things that went on there. If you want a story, contact me. F#*K YOU! Gary
Dear Exotic Pets,
I would be very interested to talk with you about your employment at Have Trunk Will Travel.
You can reach me at 323-935-2234 or mattrossell@ad-international.org
Thanks,
Matt
Exotic Pets,
Please contact Matt. Gary and Kari Johnson need to be held accountable for their abuse of elephants.
How about Dave Ellis rides for the little ones. Fun and educational. Kids can learn all about amphibious life.
The transformation was slow and painful…
Unless they can prove they aren’t abusing elephants, then they should be setting a good example and not offer the rides. I just assume visit a cruelty free fair. Jim Righeimer, Steve Beazley, and the Fair Board kind of already ruined the fair by trying to sell it to the highest bidder. Not going this year won’t be a big deal for me at all.
>>>PETA has compiled a list of 86 incidents – in the US alone, and from 1990-2011 alone, where elephants went out of control and became violent, causing 15 deaths<<>>Thursday by ending the barbaric practice of elephant rides.<<<
If you are not a vegetarian, then the barbaric practice of riding chickens and cows, opps I mean killing and eating the fresh of chickens and cows is much more humane than riding elephants at zoo’s or fair’s.
Drink milk, does a body good, except of course for the cow who is kept pregnant by force and hooked up to a machine to drain her dry.
Are elephants ride cruel, I don’t think so.
Vern and Greg, you two should go to Perris-based “Have Trunk Will Travel” (HTWT)
And check it out for yourselves.
It is like that old saying. First they came for the elephant riders, and I said nothing, etc.
“Are elephants ride cruel, I don’t think so.”………. Hmmmmm
Ditto — but you aren’t socialist cook!
Since socialists can’t use a God to scare people to submission they must over-exaggerate.
A socialist woman who gets up in the morning and realizes that she did not had an orgasm last night will call the last night a rape!
That goes for everything socialists are involved in, including weather, food, drugs, love, money, taxes etc. etc. etc.
They want you to believe that without Brown and Obama we all will die and the sun will stop shining even though it has been shining billion years before the socialists got here.
I hope that soon we will throw socialists to lions in Santa Ana zoo, especially the fatsos (we all know who they are) to reward the lions for a torture and suffering they endure to entertain us.
Four (4) more years of Brown and Obama will do that.
Please pray with sovereign free spirit me.
So if we feed the socialists to the lions, wouldn’t the DNA of the socialists seep into the lions’ DNA preventing them from experiencing the wonders of “the realm of magic”? Or are lions/animals/beasts/non-homo sapiens, which the Ojibwe elders say we should live in harmony with, already excluded from that mystical realm that we seek to be a part of?
“Or are lions/animals/beasts/non-homo sapiens, which the Ojibwe elders say we should live in harmony with, already excluded from that mystical realm that we seek to be a part of?”……… Hmmmmmm
Where have you been Fawkes?……. sweat lodge, peyote, sundancing?
Well Fawkes, trust the Ojibwe aka Chippewa elders in their believes, meaning that not everyone will reach the mystical realm that we seek to be a part of.
As we Christians say, dust to dust, socialists to the lions, meaning that if the socialist like Gröfaz was born a monkey appeared in the window of the nursery screaming refuck, refuck, refuck to prevent him to be fed to the lions and to reexperience the wonders of “the realm of magic”?.
“sweat lodge, peyote, sundancing?”
All three things which are religious rituals of my people that is still protected under the 1st Amendment of the Constitution unless the Euro left/right authoritarians get their way and eminent domain our sovereign nations. Given their track record of broken treaties with our nations, it wouldn’t surprise me if they reprised their role a la 1973 Wounded Knee siege and shoot tear gas at the sight of peyote being used.
To answer your question, I partake in the Ojibwe/Lakota/Blackfeet “holy trinity” on a consistent basis to reach “the realm of magic” that you speak so fondly of. Cleansing my soul of impurities and the intellectual dishonesty that were brought over from Euro psuedo-intellectuals is necessary for me and my survival. I would be more than happy to bring the pipe over so you can take that journey or return trip into a mystical place where freedom of mind and spirit is cherished and lauded.
“Cleansing my soul of impurities and the intellectual dishonesty that were brought over from Euro psuedo-intellectuals is necessary for me and my survival.”……… Hmmmmm
Well Fawkes, after visiting this judeo-blolshevistic-psuedo-intellectual blog you must cleanse double your soul of impurities and the intellectual dishonesty.
This blog became intellectual cesspool.
An “intellectual cesspool” indeed. Why, many of us even think that for someone to claim that women who wake up with a man in the morning after not having had an orgasm the previous night would therefore cry rape would be a sign of mental illness, insanity, and/or unmitigated rottenness. Clearly, our pool overfloweth with cess!
To “The Expelled” (not The Exiled).
“A socialist woman who gets up in the morning and realizes that she did not had an orgasm last night will call the last night a rape!”
These are the last gasps of a bitter old man who sleeps alone, and soils the sheets with his own desperation.
Thankfully your numbered days grow smaller.
“I partake in the Ojibwe/Lakota/Blackfeet ‘holy trinity’ on a consistent basis to reach “the realm of magic” that you speak so fondly of”…….. Hmmmmm
Can I partake as a non-Ojibwe observing student to see one of many portals to “the realm of magic”?
Let me see if the elders will grant their approval. Shouldn’t be that hard. A gift of a can of coffee and a pouch of tobacco usually gets them pretty giddy.
Sounds good.
My wife is Azteca, how do elders perceive to bring a Squaw along.
I have never ridden an elepjant nor do I ever feel a need to. That said, I am in favor of keeping the rides. Here is my issue: How will the elpehants already in captivity be cared for once all the funding from Elephant Rides is taken away? Who will care for these gentle beasts once the money from the zoos and fairs all dry up?
Put this energy into preventing more elephants from being put into captivity but let the ones that are here live their lives. Without this money, these elephants will not be cared for properly and likely die. Unless Peta wants to start a fund for those already in captivity, don’t pull all their funding. Doing so is “let’s blow up the abortion clinic” mentality.
Hi Chuck,
There are two excellent sanctuaries in the United States, one in northern California and one in TN. Both now have X-zoo and circus Elephants living unchained with other Elephants and freely roaming on thousands of acres of land. They do not perform and when human interaction is involved they use only positive reinforcement and protective contact. No bull hooks or other horrible devises are used at any time.
Both of these sanctuaries are working hard to raise funds to accept more Elephants. So, there really are safe places for captive U.S. Elephants to live out their lives with dignity and protection.
Elephant rides are a point of contention in the zoo world as well as the for the public. With it becoming more and more difficult to make ends meet for every one including zoological institutions across the country, each one reaches for every money-making resource they can. However, as mentioned above, our guiding organization, AZA has instituted legislation that will prohibit such rides for accredited zoos. BUT, there are only approximately 222 accredited zoos of the more than 600 plus organizations that call themselves zoos. This leaves a lot of room for elephant rides to expand into.
Do I agree, with the rides? I have been to Africa 11 times. Once you see these majestic beasts as they live, it’s hard to watch them walk in circles or, honestly behind barriers in a zoo setting. Yet, I know that reasonably, the majority won’t see or experience them as I have and to save them from extinction we need to get the message about their fragility and needs to those who might help. Close contact makes a difference in caring. If it didn’t we wouldn’t have saved as many species as we have from extinction.
I am not for animal abuse in any form. I don’t think what we are all objecting to here is the ride itself but what you view as the abusive training. I have seen elephants trained very poorly. I did not see definitely the use of a stun gun in that video. The use of the bullhook offends me as it always has.
There are options for elephants in situations like Have Trunk Will Travel. There is a great elephant sanctuary in Tennessee that does nothing but take elephants that have been living their lives in situations like these and let them live out the rest of their lives on acres and acres of wooded land with people taking care of them that love and respect them.
Do we need to ride elephants? NO.
Do we need to educate ourselves and open our pockets to save these animals? YES
Here at the Fair Board meeting. Came to report. Meant to get here early, but got here five minutes late, and the place is OVERFLOWING. Can’t get in. Listening from outside. Haven’t seen it like this since 2009, since the height of the Swindle. Over sixty people have signed up to speak about the elephants. How many of them could be HTWT employees? Doubtful.
That’s great to hear, now maybe someone can put a end to his breeding of these animals.
I have no problem getting rid of the elephants mainly through simple disinterest, but why is a sub-committee referred to “shades of the Swindle”? Do you make the same allusion when speaking about the subcommittees that Berardino is on? Or are they okay because a union bully is better than a republican bully?
That being said, next stop, the livestock program and the equestrian center, right? Cruelty is cruelty and liability is liability. More people die each year riding horses than from rampaging elephants. Just ask Christopher Reeves.
And, remember Vern, the question is “why is it so important for kids to ride” horses? Especially if you have to kick them in the ribs or use a riding crop to get them moving. And, does livestock really want to be raised up just to be sold off for slaughter?
Oh – were you one of those people making the “slippery slope” argument yesterday? Was that you in the clown shoes?
Ridiculous. Someone else can argue with you on that.
Hearing Dave propose a subcommittee to study an issue just brings back traumatic memories. Memories of the “furlough” and then “governance” subcommittee. And stop calling Dave a “republican.” It’s insulting to Stan, Joyce, Doug, and Dave Padilla.
Talk to the equestrians who spoke in favor of ending elephant rides. Like Dr. Janice Posnikov, the horse vet. Ever heard of the difference between domestic and wild animals?
Plus, above in this comments thread you claimed you were “all for getting rid of the rides.” Were you also in favor of getting rid of the equestrian center? Were you being sincere then, or now, or ever?
You realized, of course, that Governor Schwarzenegger imposed the furlough on all state employees, correct? Why would it bring back traumatic memories for you, you didn’t see your wages cut.
And they still have a governance committee, they just renamed it the Liaison Committee. And whatever happened to the great hype David Padilla? Wasn’t he another one of your “bombshells” that never materialized?
And, I’m not arguing a slippery slope, you just ignored the point that cruelty is cruelty but I guess you pick which animals should be enslaved and tortured so as not to alienate your readership. God forbid that the horse people turn on you if you ever consistent on any issue.
I’m very disappointed. I had thought you were a scholar of my writing about Dave Ellis.
The “governance subcommittee,” originally called the “furlough subcommittee” because its pretext was to find a way to deal with Arnold’s furloughs, consisted of Dave, Kristina and Beazley … and it was the vehicle Dave used to secretly sneak through many of the probably illegal moves to try to sell the Fair to himself and his colleagues – the Ackerman/Nossaman lobbying contracts, the two appraisals that they still deny exist, and much more.
Refresh your memory: http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2011/03/who-is-dave-ellis-a-portrait-of-the-fair-board-chairman-1/
We are simply not, as SS Colonel Landa sadly observed to Aldo the Apache in “Inglourious Basterds,” operating on the same level of mutual respect.
Well, speaking of respect, I must respectfully remind you that they don’t deny that the appraisals exist, they deny that they were finished because there were no comps to make an accurate appraisal. Remember, the State themselves thought they could get $300 million whereas in the auction the high bid was $56 or 65 million. So even the state couldn’t give an accurate appraisal of their own property.
And, why would the appraisals be some kind of smoking gun? And, wouldn’t you applaud any other group for pulling the plug on a task before they wasted more money trying to come up with some kind of figure? Should they have spent more money for inconclusive results? Would that have made you happy?
And, the legislature allowed the governor’s sale idea to happen. How would it be illegal at that point, since those who make the laws signed off on the idea? According to your oft cited Nossaman billing, pretty much every local legislator and stake holder was in the loop so for them to claim they were hoodwinked proves they either weren’t paying attention or are now trying to cover their butts. Even the swap meet thought the sale was fine until the City dumped them as a partner.
I must respectfully shoot your last comment full of holes. Dr. Beazley, at the big Solorio-Tran townhall in Nov. 2009, was very insistent that there had been NO appraisals at all. None of that subtle nuance you try to inject. If they’ve added that recently, it’s when nobody was listening, or I would have heard.
I didn’t mention but the whole purpose of Dave’s subcommittee scheme was to accomplish things in secrecy that would be unpopular and controversial, and he broke at least two laws in the process – Bagley Keane (by authorizing actions in a private subcommittee that should have been discussed in public by the whole board) and False Claims (in how they billed for lobbying, appraisals, etc. through land-use contractors.)
I’m looking at your dopey questions and getting mad. Weren’t you there like I was? The lobbying happened BEFORE the passing of the legislation – that was the purpose of it, to make sure the legislation passed.
And “the swap meet thought the sale was fine until the City dumped them as a partner?” Now I’m really mad. I’m discussing the events of 2009. Teller fought the sale throughout 2009; he was our biggest money. Finally in spring of 2010 when it looked like there was no other way of getting around it being sold, he formed a consortium called American Fairs or something, to try to buy it with himself and other folks we trusted as partners. Have you really forgotten all of this, or do you think the rest of us are stupid?
This is way off topic from the elephant story, so if you come back with some more nonsense I probably won’t answer.
Classic example of lynch mob tactics.
What is next? Free the cows and chickens?
“Lynch mob tactics.” Always what you say when your side loses.
The people of Orange County lost.
No, old man, we won. OC folks on both sides showed up to speak. Six out of seven Fair Board members listened to us – three Republicans and three Democrats – and most of them had studied the issue beforehand. It was a good outcome for the people of OC and we can be proud.
Pack in the Pacaderms! No Dumbo for us! We know that elephants can fly! They need to go back to busting up bamboo in the jungles of Cambodia and Burma! We
love elephants…and having to put up with mean spirited little kids and nasty stick and hook carrying trainers seems heartless. Let our Gray Brothers and Sisters go!
And so they did. Now that they are leaving the Fair Grounds they will probably end up reenacting the crossing of the Rubicon…..at the annual Laguna Arts Festival.
Hey, I’m glad the elephant rides are being phased out. I also would like to see the whales and dolphin “shows” be phased out as well. I’m still loving my hamburgers and chicken wings, so I can’t pose as a more evolved being, but we humans need to amuse ourselves without any more sacrifice from animals.
I think some dogs and dolphin enjoy our company, as do our poor inbred pets. It’s not that people don’t benefit from relationships with the wild kingdom– we are drawn to our furry and feathered planet mates . They show us our world through their eyes and deserve to live and have a place here as we do. I respect the attitude native Americans (and others) teach about our fellow creatures; each has attributes and dangers we as humans revere or fear. Now days it sounds odd to be” brave as a lion “or have” the eye of an eagle”… I’d like to see anyone who crosses the path of an elephant to shinny up its leg and go for a ride! (Tarzan managed).
This reminds me “Free Willy” the whale fiasco.
What will happen to this elephant(s)?
Is it gone be shipped back to the Africa?
Most likely it will be tied-up in some preserve and eventually put to sleep.
That is what the nature loving left-liberal-progresive-socialists, like Gröfaz, always accomplish.
Death and destruction.
*There is little doubt that the elephants that are currently well fed and cared for, may
be relegated to constant travel, low rent locations and lesser care. There is always
that possibility.
Vern, Are the horses next?
Since the argument to drop the elephants was about public safety and the possibility of death or injury due to a rampaging elephant. (Even tho it was only a remote possibility)
Should the fair board ban and remove Bee’s. Dogs, Horses, and Bulls? All of these are at the fair too, and according to this list easily found on the internet are much more dangerous than Elephants.
Average Number of Deaths per Year in the U.S.
Bee/wasp………..53
Dogs…………….31
Horses…………..20
Bulls………………3
Mountain Lion……1
Bear………………½
Elephant…………..¼
Non Native animal attacks
On rare occasions, attacks can occur at the Zoo, or circus. in 2007 a man was killed by a Tiger at the San Francisco Zoo. There have been a few deaths in the U.S. caused by elephants. The chance of dying from an elephant attack in the U.S. is almost impossible.
Bad news for the fair.
No staff report, staff investigation or staff recommendation.
The presentation was by a board member who has no experience or background in the subject matter, and offered only his personal opinion as the reason to not renew the contract, and offered no reports of any kind to back up his opinion.
Either the board members are not very bright, or there was some collusion prior to the meeting to stack the vote.
(Like Nixon said “When the president does it, its not illegal”) (Now replace “president” with “board members“)
Cook, no, much of the argument was about animal cruelty, factoring in animal intelligence.
You should factor in “incidence of exposure” to your table. Do you really think that dogs are 124 times as dangerous as elephants, or do you think that maybe there is way, way more than 124 times less exposure to elephants compared to dogs?
Greg,
The charges of animal cruelty are old, and have been investigated and found to be false.
The table is someone else’s, I just cut and pasted, I did leave off spiders and snakes and sharks to shorten it.
The fair board made unsubstantiated claims, they did not provide equal time to HTWT, the board did not even look at the information provided by HTWT.
To a layman like me, this looked to be a preplanned action, collusion by a click who think the rules do not apply to them.
The problem with the table is not the layout, but that it doesn’t allow the inferences you imply can be made.
Your claim that the animal cruelty charges have been investigated and found to be false interests me. I’d love to see links. I doubt that it’s true, but I would keep my mind open.
What are you talking about Cook? You weren’t there, I didn’t see you.
Nearly a hundred speakers spoke – at first I assumed they’d mostly be against the ride, but half of them were friends of HTWT. And HTWT got to play a long film at the end of the speeches, longer than the one the animal rights people played at the beginning.
So when you say equal time was not provided, you’re either making things up or someone lied to you. And WHAT “ubstantiated claims.” Again you’re making things up or someone’s lying to you.
“And HTWT got to play a long film at the end of the speeches”
I did not know that. I was only told that the fair board members did not read the written info given to them.
From Nick’s written report:
“In recent years, however, new questions surrounding the safety of wild animals interacting directly with humans have emerged across the Country.” and
“the new standards raise new safety and liability questions related to elephant rides during the Orange County Fair.”
Notice the word “Questions” in each statement. Questions are just that, questions, they are not facts. This is what I mean about unsubstantiated claims.
But it is what it is.
Nice report Vern.