Kudos to new OC Supervisor John Moorlach – he was brutally attacked by the OC deputy sheriff’s union during his campaign against raving nut Dave Shawver, and now he is taking on the crooked union thugs. According to an OC Register article, he is demanding a full audit of their “multimillion-dollar health-insurance fund administered by union leaders with public tax dollars. And he wants the sheriff’s deputies to accept the same trims on retiree medical benefits imposed on general employees this year.”
Check out this quote from the union boss, “The guy is firing rounds at us,” said Bob Macleod, general manager of the deputies union. “He’s using the power of his elective office to retaliate against individuals that did not support him.” No Macleod – he is going after you guys because you are driving our county government into another bankruptcy.
Well done Supervisor Moorlach! Let’s see if your fellow Supervisors stand up to these raving, selfish labor hacks as well. Watch how quickly Bill Campbell capitulates!
God Bless John for have the courage to stand up to these Union Thugs!!!!
What Moorlach, Pedroza and you other morons don’t understand, is the state of crisis law enforcement recruitment is in these days. Whether it’s city PD’S or Sheriff’s departments, they are having a hard time filling positions.
As you erode away the benefits, the qualified applicantes just move on to another department. Moorlach is hell bent on turning OCSD into another LAPD. Good luck John! Oh and by the way, your right hand is on the other side of your body.
It takes 3 votes to move in this direction. Unless Moorlach has two supporters on the Board, there is no substance to this rhetoric.
John Moorlach only cares about hurting the families of those who protect us on a daily basis. He is vengeful and filled with hate.
“God Bless John for have the courage to stand up to these Union Thugs!!!!”
Amen, to that brother!
Just for that, I’m sending John a Christmas card. 🙂
Desolve the department and farm it all out to the cities. The county does not need its own army.
The Sheriff’s have every right to price themselves out of business.
What is needed now is robo-cop
Moorlach has one puppet named Norby. Hopefully the rest have the sense to stay clear of his self destructive behavior.
Art,
Your hyperbole runs in the excess on this issue. I am appalled that you would call “raving, selfish labor hacks” any of our men and women who risk their lives every day to protect you and me.
I think you would appreciate any law enforcement officer taking a bullet for you or a family member. I am also glad our firefighters run into burning buildings to save our loved ones, or die to save our property from a brush fire.
They deserve exceptionally good pensions because they do not know what they might face on a daily basis. A career and method of livelihood can be gone in an instant.
To be a Policeman, Sheriff, Firefighter, is not just a career/job – it is a calling. Any career that involves risking everything you have deserve special pensions, disability and retirement packages. It is the least that we taxpayers can do for our real, first line of homeland security.
denmother,
Police and firefighters know exactly what they are getting into when they opt for their respective careers. And they make great money doing so. I have heard of firemen making over six figures! More than half their time is spent doing very little, as you know. Just look at the problems in LA, where they resort to hazing each other out of boredom.
We are ALL important in what we do. No one is more important than the rest of us. I am a safety director for a company with 500 employees. You don’t think I am important? I am responsible for their health and safety!
My workers by the way go into burned out buildings and they restore them to new condition. Are they doing hazardous work? You bet! And they don’t make anywhere near what the firemen make. And my guys work 40 + hours a week!
Public workers DO NOT deserve better pensions than we do – period. Not when it is our tax money. If they don’t like it, let them quit.
The shortages you noted by the way often are due to the fact that many departments require bilingual officers. Do away with that requirement and the problem goes away. There are hundreds if not thousands of soldiers coming out of the services. Couldn’t we send them to fire or police academy? You bet!
Bottom line – union workers should not get rich at our expense. And what they do IS NOT more important than what we do!
demmother stated: “To be a Policeman, Sheriff, Firefighter, is not just a career/job – it is a calling.”
I totally agree, especially when calling is based on boredom to do childish pranks and serve dog food to black members.
-Stan
Art.
Have you considered that maybe individuals are drawn to firefighting and police work because they know if the worst happens their families will be taken care of? You’re argument is elitist at best.
What do you believe a police officer or firefighter should be paid?
Please detail your vast experience in one of those professions to enlighten us. Your remarks about an isolated instance in Los Angeles is not rationale enough to convince anyone the entire profession should be disbanded because of the actions of a few.
elroy,
Where am I asking for them to be disbanded? I just don’t want them to bankrupt our county with their unabashed greed!
I think it is terribly elitist for people to say that police and firemen are somehow better or more important than the rest of us. Not so. We are all important. Our taxes pay for these guys.
Besides, with life insurance, we can all assure that if we die our families will be taken care of.
As for what they ought to be paid, it should not be six figures. That is three or four times what the average worker in Santa Ana makes. I have two degrees – and I am an accomplished professional. I deserve my salary. Most police and firemen are nowhere near as educated as I am.
As for my own experience, I am trained in emergency response and first aid. I took a nine week course this year, called CERT, in Santa Ana. I carry enough first aid supplies in my car to assist perhaps 20 or 30 people in a catastrophe. I spent a month in New Orleans last year after Hurricane Katrina. I am an authorized OSHA construction safety outreach trainer. What about you? You can’t even blog with your real name! Give me a break…
Art. Your elitism shows like a klieg light in a darkroom. Your entire premise of compensation is based upon educational levels.
There are other intangibles intrinsic to either job that allow for the difference in compensation. Are you exposed to carcinogens daily? Firefighters are at greater risk to develop cancers at a much higher rate than the normal population.
Firefighters face more risk than other workers in developing these cancers:
Specifically:
* Testicular cancer 102%
* Multiple myeloma 53%
* Non-Hodgkin lymphoma 51%
* Skin cancer 39%
* Brain cancer 32%
* Prostate cancer 28%
* Stomach cancer 22%
* Colon cancer 21%
Do the rescue supplies you carry enable you mitigate hazards like running into burning buildings? Pulling mangled bodies out of cars without doing more harm? Emergency medicine is the bulk of the firefighting occupation. But it is only one of the many things we as a society ask them to be prepared to do. Should public servants be paid according to the median income of the population they work? Or should we pay competitive to other jurisdictions to ensure we have the best?
I don’t carry enough supplies to help 20 or 30 people. But I am assured that just about anywhere I go I can call 911 and know help is on the way in a timely manner. And I won’t have to worry if the rescuer has been out all night drinking heavily in downtown Santa Ana if it’s a Thursday night.
Your retort borders on being a personal attack. Which tells me even you know it is on thin ice.
elroy,
Yes, what firemen do is sometimes hazardous. Does that mean they ought to be able to rip us off with their pension plans? You are the elitist! I have a feeling you don’t know what the word means, so let’s see what dictionary.com has to say:
Elitist – 1. The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.
2. The sense of entitlement enjoyed by such a group or class.
Why elroy, it sounds like your attitude re firefighters and policemen is in fact ELITIST! What I am saying is that it is unfair for theme to be considered superior to us, and that they have a “sense of entitlement” when it comes to their pension plans.
Here is a question to consider – why do they deserve to retire at 55? The rest of us likely won’t be able to retire at all! What is that all about? How in the world is that fair?
By the way, if you want to talk about mortality rates, look up painters. They have some of the highest mortality rates in the nation. You think they ought to make more than firemen?
Lastly, our nation’s soldiers are exposed to a lot more hazards than firefighters are – and they often have to resort to welfare because they are so underpaid. Should they make what firemen make? Should they be able to retire at 55? I can guess what your answers will be. You sound like a liberal Democrat, so I am going to assume you have no great love for our military. Let’s see if you are a hypocrite…
Art. We pay firefighters and police officers what is affordable. As far as being allowed to retire at 55. I say they should. Does your job require you to carry the gear and do arduous physical labor such as a firefighter might be asked. Regularly? I doubt it. I could care less what police and firefighters are doing when there are no emergencies. They can watch TV, read books, sleep for all I care. But when I’m being shot at, or my house is on fire, I want them there busting their ass. And I don’t want some old guy who moves with all the speed of passing seasons.
As far as your analogy to military personnel. I will agree with you wholeheartedly they are woefully underpaid. However. Are you prepared to give police and fire personnel the same things we give military personnel? Subsidized housing, subsidized medical, subsidized food, fully paid education plans, and the ability to collect a pension after 20 years of service regardless of age. Be careful what you ask for.
If you now view public safety personnel as elitist because they have been able to use the political process for their material gain, whose fault is that? They didn’t create the system. We as taxpayers always have the right to say NO to them and their candidates.
I don’t begrudge either group their compensation. As I don’t bedgrudge Moorlach looking into how the groups who receive taxpayer funds for their own management should be investigated to ensure those dollars are going to the intended purpose.
Elroy, be careful – your laying out cancer percentages like that may be noticed by the county actuaries and lead them to conclude that such a high risk group should be in their own insurance pool and pay accordingly vs. being lumped in with all employees in the same pool. This is what is apparently happening to non-safety member county retirees and the same principal could be applied to other “above average” users of health insurance benefits, retired or not.
And BTW Art. I served my country proudly for six years in our nation’s military.
I walked the walk. Have you?
One way to solve the elitists problem and pay disparity is for the County Supervisors to enact a minimum wage and benefit package for the county, all employers, public and private.
Lets say 100,000 per year base with a 20,000 401k and another 20,000 for medical. And make it for life.
Us non-union handy persons, ditch diggers, yard workers, poop shoveler
Art,
What you don’t know about firefighters, and the job they do, would fill a book.
They have a reduced life expectancy after retirement because of their job.
They are more abt to get certain cancers and other diseases because of their exposure to different chemicals as part of their jobs.
They are also more abt to get injured because of their jobs. And the list goes on and on.
I’m sure police officers are also facing a higher mortality rate in their age groups because of job related stress..not to mention taking a bullet to protect us.
And the level of total compensation for firefighters and police officers in Orange County is far below that of their peers in L.A. County.
Firefightes also don’t just sit around and do nothing between calls. They do safety inspections of businesses in their Cities and a host of other required things that take up their time.
Your local firefighters are also part of strike teams that are sent out to all the major wildlands fires and they too went to New Orleans after Katrina to do search and rescue. And were exposed to the toxic chemicals there!
Remember the riots in L.A. in the early 90’s? A Santa Ana firefighter was shot while trying to put out a fire up there. He was part of the strike teams sent from Orange County to try to help people during the riots.
I know that police and sheriff’s from Orange County were also up their trying to protect and serve during that insanity.
So please, don’t even think about comparing what you do to what they do…or complaining about their salary or pensions.
So MUCH diatribe since I last posted.
Police/Sheriff and Firefighters ARE special “elitist” jobs. The jobs that police/sheriffs and firefighters do are worth EVERY dollar spent. Art, I would never ask you to take a bullet for me or run in my burning home to save my kitty. This is why I have no problem with my tax dollars going to good wages and benefits, especially police and fire. If you don’t want to pay for the service, don’t call 911.
Be thankful you have never needed to call upon their service. I have and they have done their duty professionaly and to my satisfaction.
BTW: this is why Arnold lost the November 2003 Special. Attacking the people who save our lives and property is not a way to win friends or votes.
What about the sweet deals that Moorlach and his buddies on the Board of Sups receive? A few years of “service” and a huge pension after the inflated salary. I have yet to hear any one of them look FIRST into their own deals.
Art, be careful of pulling people down; they might knock you off in the process. As a teacher, that you get any reasonable salary is because of your union. Since you have a private company with employees who work in hazardous conditions, do you pay any part of your employees or are your employees on their own for insurance?
Instead of pulling people down, we need to be raising them up. I think that is a healthier society.
Why should police officers retire early?
Because the average police officer dies within 7 years of retirement. It’s call a lifetime of stress, Art whoever you are!
And when they die, their spouse gets no more than 50% of their pension.
#6…who would you like staffing the counties jail system when all the city PD’S take over the counties “army?”
I should add that a friend of mine is a disabled cop, severly injured while on the job. (has severe trouble standing/walking, thus is disabled for andy other job training)
Over the years, he has seen his pension and medical benefits decrease. He used to do a few things on the side to make ends meet but no longer can for fear of losing what is left of his benefits.
It is easy to say tough break, not my problem, why should I pay for that? Everyone should remember… There but for the Grace of God…
Art likes to brag about his 500 employees who go into burned out buildings, and how THEY work 40 hours a week.
They’re doing that kind of work because they probably don’t have a choice to anything other than manual labor. Be it for their lack of education or criminal records.
When’s the last time you/or they had to stop eating their 15 minute lunch when a radio comes on advising of the sound of a gun shot in a local motel. You arrive and wade past everyone (who’s waiting for you) to open the door, only to have gray matter dropping off the ceiling onto your uniform from a suicide.
Or try explaining to the parents of newly dead SIDS victim, why you need to collect all of the bed linens for evidence, while they stand there, outside themselfs with grief.
Yeah Art, tell us how important your job is!
Tell us what you think we deserve. How long do you think it takes to let go of those kind of memories?
Guess what? They don’t go away!
Hey Art,
When you were down in Louisiana after Katrina doing what you do, who was paying the bill? Your company wasn’t being paid by the feds were they? Or working as a subcontractor for the feds?
I get a kick out of conservatives who continually blast away at the pay of firefighters and police officers. Yet they don’t say two words about the pay of CEO’s whose companies live on government contracts. The majority of whom are republicans, btw.
And I could easily argue my city is far better off with well paid cops and firemen than it is with government subsidized businessmen.
When I see that type of scrutiny, I might give Art’s arguments a passing thought. Until then it’s just a big yawner.
One of my guests this Thanksgiving was the wife of an L.A. City fireman. He didn’t come because he was called into work that morning because someone else was ill.
Her husband works a 24 hour shift, as do most other firefighters. During that 24 hours, there is no “off duty” time. A call comes in, they go out.
It doesn’t matter if it’s meal time, or the middle of the night. They respond and the average response time is 5 minutes from the time the call comes in to their arrival on scene.
Her husband frequently comes home dead tired because they had several calls during the night and they are not allowed to sleep during the day. They have other duties to complete and each station must complete their assigned duties every day.
I personally had to call paramedics when my 8 year old son had an asthma attack and was turning blue. They were at my home within 5 minutes and saved his life.
Neighbors have called paramedics for different life threatening things over the years and they always got here fast, and knew what to do. Without them, people would have died!
I would much rather pay our firefighters and police officers high salaries and good pensions than elected officials who sit on their butt’s all day, pass stupid laws and spend their time dreaming up more ways to screw us with more taxes.
The same for career government employees who don’t do their jobs, but can’t be fired because of union protection.
Whew! Let’s move on to something less controversial. How about religion? Ha —
“high salaries and good pensions”
What about the food store clerks and box boys? with out the food they provide you, You would die.
Why are you not concerned about their low pay and benefits?
And the people in the fields havesting your food?
Don’t they deserve good pay and pensions too?
Art said- “As for what they ought to be paid, it should not be six figures. That is three or four times what the average worker in Santa Ana makes. I have two degrees – and I am an accomplished professional. I deserve my salary. Most police and firemen are nowhere near as educated as I am.”
1. Does that mean that police & fireman should be paid the average salary of the folks living in the communities they serve? If so, only Newport Beach and a few other South County communities will have any police/firefighters/sheriffs.
2. Do you think 2 degrees make you an accomplished professional? I have 4 degrees. Using your logic, compared to me, you’re “entry level” at best.
3. Do your degrees mean you’re smarter than folks with less formal education? I don’t think so. Did you ever hear the one about an “educated fool”?
4. Do you have any idea of the education required to become a firefighter? Or to rise in the ranks? Or to be a paramedic or hazardous materials specialist? Same for police officer.
Once again, you have shown your ignorance.
This is such a crapola to read stories about firemen and policemen promulgated by their wifes, friends, cronies and hacks. I would like to see their personal disciplinary and criminal files.
Why are these files sealed if they are such exemplary citizens?…. Huh?
I tell you why: The mater of the fact is, and this is my opinion, that firemen and policemen are social egoistic misfits who must dress up in the uniforms every day to suppress their complex of inferiority.
Statistically these are safest jobs within the municipalities!
In Santa Ana only two police men have been killed on duty since the department was established. In contrast hundreds of City workers have been killed while performing their City employment duty.
-Stan
Aside from his (or her) talent of being a master of the obvious, Agent Orange is also a psychiatrist.
Art, I don’t mean to pile on but your line of thought that firefighters and police don’t deserve more compensation because everyone’s jobs are just as important sounds pretty socialistic, even communistic to me. Sounds like one of those AFL-CIO web sites taking off on corporate CEO’s making 10-50 times what the average worker of the company makes and how that shouldn’t be because the CEO’s job is no more important then the janitor or security guard.
Elroy El,
Stan is he “el cabron”.
-Stan
Bladerunner,
Of course they deserve to be well compensated – my point is that they don’t deserve to be overly compensated. Moreover, they don’t deserve to retire at 55 – not when the rest of us won’t get to retire at all, the way things are going. And they should not be allowed to bankrupt county and city governments with their unending greed!
BTW, I do think most CEO salaries are obscene.
So tell us Art, what is the right age for public safety people to retire?
How old do you want your police officers and firefighters to be that will be rushing to your aid when you need them?
Agent Orange said-“I tell you why: The mater of the fact is, and this is my opinion, that firemen and policemen are social egoistic misfits who must dress up in the uniforms every day to suppress their complex of inferiority.”
Ok. Let’s apply that logic and take a look at everyone who would fall under that “diagnosis”.
First, we have the entire Military. Then we have repairmen, doormen, some retail sales folks, grocery store staff, restaurant staff, chef’s and of course all the folks who are involved in team sports.
Oh, I almost forgot doctors, nurses and other medical professionals, lab workers, nuns, priests, judges and “sanitary engineers”,
Should we also include cub scouts, boy scouts and girl scouts as “social egoistic misfits” in training? What about children that attend schools that require them to wear uniforms? And don’t forget about the children learning team sports.
Good grief! My friend’s 5 year old grandson, who’s playing soccer this year for the first time and loves his little uniform, must be a closet “social egoistic misfit” too.
Hmmmmm..guess I need to call her and tell her to put the kid in therapy.
Art,
You said you took a 9 week CERT course in Santa Ana this year that trained you in emergency response and first aid.
What group made that course available? Who was teaching the course?
Could it have been a course offered through the Fire Department and taught by those very same fire fighters who lack your level of education and are not “accomplished professionals”?
Elroy El stated: “How old do you want your police officers and firefighters to be that will be rushing to your aid when you need them?”
The proper question would be Elroy, “how fat” not “how old” you want your police to be. By age 30, most of team are Donut-Gobbling-Fatsos unable to run or perform their duty and must be assign to desk jobs any way. So I would not have any problem with 65 years old cop pushing papers.
-Stan
#35 Please try to engage in the intelligent discussion here.
There are only two uniforms in discussion here: (a) cop uniform and (b) fireman uniform.
The cop uniform gives a social misfit momentary absolute power over the society even to kill.
The fireman uniform gives a social misfit the exact opposite the absolute power to rescue. I am sure that you are aware than mostly the firemen are arsonists.
These two disorders have roots in so called Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome (MBPS), or Factitious Disorder by Proxy, as it’s listed in the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
-Stan
Agent Orange. How about putting forth something empirical about your claims of police and firfighter psyches. Surely you’ve come to this conclusion via something more substantial than your own opinions. I have a medical journal that proves my claim of increased cancer probability. Certainly you can do the same.
Otherwise it’s just hot air.
I see John Moorlach has a $1500 per person fundraser planned for January 18th for donors to ” meet and be introduced to his staff”. So much for Mr. Smith goes to the Board of Supervisors.