.
Hear the Robo-Call
(the original, complete with a couple false starts!)
The Anaheim Police association, currently under the ‘leadership’ (if you can call it that) of Kerry Condom, recruited Curt ‘Poll-Guard’ Pringle for a damning robo-call against the besieged Mayor Tom Tait. Tait might or might not be, depending on who you ask, the only real supporter of a proposed Police Oversight Committee, the idea of which came about after Anaheim Police drew wide-spread criticism for tactics used after a string of fatal shootings. The D.A. recently announced that charges will not be filed in the high-profile Manuel Diaz case that ignited protests last year.
Gotta hand it to Pringle, claiming that the City Council is already an oversight board of sorts is nothing short of genius, as the other 4 layers of oversight are all also in government, and in no way share information with the public. However the notion that the City Council undertakes that responsibility now or ever, is complete and utter bullshit.
Many are asking where Pringle’s student, Councilmember Jordan Brandman who is a Democrat (and therefore should naturally support this sort of commission) falls on this issue… well… inquiries into his position on the matter return with ambiguous results.
Are you kidding about Brandman? Maybe you weren’t paying attention during the election, but he was the only candidate (besides ex-cops Linder and Lodge who didn’t even show up to most candidate forums) to actually express skepticism that police brutality even exists in Anaheim.
He actually said that when he’s elected to council, he’ll be able to check with the Chief to see if there are any problems. He actually said all this at a candidate’s forum ON ANNA DRIVE, as well as at Los Amigos, to general shock and disbelief.
He was also the largest recipient of police union money.
Meanwhile the three Republican candidates Kring, Chuchua and Leos (and OF COURSE Green Duane Roberts) all agreed that police brutality was a huge problem and that we need a commission … although I wouldn’t be surprised if Lucille has changed her mind on that as she has on most things since getting elected.
Remember though Vern that you supported Lucille, instead of backing your own blogger, Duane. And you did so even after she ripped Mexican immigrants and the Dreamers.
My sense is that Duane was always Vern’s fave — but his campaign didn’t show enough signs of life to make him seem viable.
Third-party politics is difficult — as you yourself know, based on whatever affiliation it is that you have now.
Not true. Look at any of my pre-election stuff. I clearly endorsed 3 candidates and explained the good points of Leos, Kring, and Roberts.
Curt Pringle and Tom Tait, working together, mage a small fortune for themselves by screwing the people of Anaheim with their Platinum Triangle dealings.
There is little money for them in any Police Oversight Committee so why should they give a rat’s ass one way or another if there is such an oversight committee?
There is something rotten is the State of Anaheim. One could guess that the robo-call is some sort of red herring to detract everyone from a developing Pringle-Tait get rich scheme involving screwing the people of Anaheim.
That’s Fitzgerald, the smart old cuss who doesn’t trust ANYBODY, including Tait! I trust Tait.
Vern, wake up!
Did Tait run for office because of civic pride or was it because he has a 100-employee company called Tait Associates that specializes in doing business with city governments?
Tait and Pringle could be playing you and others like a fiddle.
Anaheim Police Department is an top notch professional group and does not merit a Ciilian Review Board to look over the shoulder and second guess the Officers. Of course, when a small vocal group of malcontents jump on the bandwagon, there will always be a few worthless politicans who jump with them. The Internal Affairs Discipline System Officers are subject to is the most strict and grueling of any profession in the marketplace. Add to that, the Independent Review of Officer Involved Shootings by the District Attorney and the last thing that is needed is to put in place another layer of amateur Cop haters, second guessing the actions an Officer makes in a split second decision. Mayor Tait needs to grow up and quit prostituting himself to the small vocal minority who do not represent the community as a whole.
Did you help to train them, Patrick? If so, I am concerned about their attitudes towards civil liberties and civil rights, especially where GLBTs are concerned.
I am an Anaheim resident, and I have repeatedly stated that I highly value the mission of any Police Department to Protect and Serve. As a large city, we have a considerable level of crime, involving gang activity, which requires not only police response.
The APD is rightly criticized by a large number of residents by its pattern of fatally shooting young latinos, and having a Chief who does not take responsibility for the actions of his department. He did not know that the APD was displaying a militarized presence in the Anna Drive neighborhood during the riots.
It is the responsibility of the local leaders to set reasonable policies that addresses the severe problems of the city. Allowing the APD to continue a practice of alienating a significant section of our community, it is unacceptable. Mayor Tait is the only one in the current council, with a clear understanding of what needs to be done to heal our city.
Wanting to hold police officers accountable for their actions considering the incredible authority they wield is not “second guess(ing) the Officers”. You actually say this twice.
“small vocal group of malcontents jump on the bandwagon”
“small vocal minority who do not represent the community as a whole”
On what research do you base these significant claims?
Internal affairs is the “most strict and grueling of any profession in the marketplace”
How many people on this planet really think that a human organization policing itself could possibly ever be the “most strict and grueling” accountability mechanism. This does not pass the laugh test.
“amateur Cop haters”
When this Hispanic man’s love affair with your law enforcement community began, I hated cops so much that I was risking my “huevos” in Colombia providing law enforcement tools for Colombian law enforcement.
“Independent Review of Officer Involved Shootings”
Your crowd sure likes to name drop. When an organization includes the word “independent” it probably means it’s just the opposite. Reference George Orwell’s book entitled “1984”
There is no Easter bunny either.
Wrong on all of your assinine statements.
Having a inexperienced civilians looking over the shoulders of the Officers and passing judgement on what did or didn’t happen, is most certainly “second guessing.” There is already enough of that going on with supervisors, managers, administrators and elected officials. Until you have walked in the shoes of a Cop, don’t pretend to undrstand how to do the job. You comments sound like you did at one time, but couldn’t cut the mustard? Is that true?
Either you never worked under a Police Internal Affairs System, or if you did perhaps it chewed you up and spit you out (Most likely). Having been on the receiving end a couple of times during my 35 years on the job, while the complaints were “Not Sustained” I can tell you the process is brutal and destroys many good Cops who did nothing wrong.
From your sad tale of woe about your life threatening days in Columbia, I would surmise that you got the ax from law enforcement and now have sour grapes to share? Just who did you work for in Columbia and what did you do. Since I have done Contract work myself, I would be interested in hearing more about your alleged experience.
First off, I have no crowd and speak only for myself. There is no law enforcement group in the state who does not do independent review of shootings, usually by the local District Attorney, or State Attorney General. From my observations of the process, although never having been directly involved, our District Annorney does a top notch job here in Orange County. Of course with your attitude, you probably believe there is a conspiracy between the D.A. and the Police.
“No Easter Bunny,” you say? The next B/S thing you will be telling us is that Santa Claus is dead?
just Google “german santos patents” and click on first link . Civilian working on surveillance systems.
Greg, I cannot take any of the training credit for the fine professionals who work at Anaheim Police department. I did however work with a number of them for many years and failed to see the rights violations you liberals so freely hurl at them. They have a job to do and it isn’t always a “smiley faced” one. The Officers do not make the law, but merely enforce it. While eighty percent of citizens they deal with are honest, hard working and law abiding people, the other 20% are dirt bags. These dirt bags, prey on honest citizens and many are armed. When encountered by law enforcement, more often than not, the dirt bags decide to go the hard way. Of course, after the fact when arrested or killed, in the blink of an eye they graduate from his life of crime to that of a martyr or All American son. This is not to say theat the Cops on occasion do not make mistakes, violate policies and procedures and even commit criminal acts themselves? While not speaking for the Anaheim Cops, I can tell you that after 35 years in the business, there is nothing a professional Officer hates more that a crooked Cop who gives everyone a black eye. Most Police Departments today, despite labor unions and employment law are pretty good at weeding out the bad guys. Bottom line with this story is that there is already a citizen group monitoring every Police Officer in Anaheim, Santa Ana, Fullerton, Irvine, etc., and they are the City Council. The Council is directly accountable to the citizens and can be voted in or out of office as was witnessed in Fullerton. No other layers of bureauracy are needed.
LtPar, I am curious, are Anaheim’s dirtbags more dangerous than those in say…Santa Ana, Los Angeles or New York City? Does Anaheim have a higher percentage of dirtbags per capita than those other cities? Precisely what is it about Anaheim’s dirtbags that forces Anaheim police officers to shoot them at a rate significantly higher than other cities?
Cynthia, I estimate Anaheim does not have more “dirt bags” per capita than other Orange County cities of comparable size or demographics. I would guess however, that they have a larger ratio of gang members than other places, exxcepting perhaps Santa Ana. Where you have gang members, you also have a greater propensity for violence and armed suspects. Could this possibly account for the number of Officer related shootings? Having never worked in Anaheim, I don’t know for a fact, but logical analysis would suggest “Yes.” Sorry to pop your bubble but Community Policing with gang members is not sitting around holding hands and singing Kumbaya. If you want to be an informed community activist as opposed to one who just shoots from the hip on the internet, get yourself down to the Anaheim Police Department and attend their Citizen Police Academy. Do a few ride alongs on the various shifts with the Officers, as well. I will guarantee you will have your eyes opened and gain a new respect for the men and women wearing the badge in your community. Then you can become an informed activist?
Ryan, the way Municipal Government works is that the City Council is elected and has total control over how the City is run. They hire a professional City Manager as the CEO and he carries out their orders. A City Council can be as little involved or as much involved in the managing of City affairs as they choose. Most choose not to be micro managers and let the City Manager and his Team run the organization. The Council could choose to be provided with a synopsis of all Police discipline matters, but they also defer that to the City Manager. Most Police discipline cases are for unintentional minor violations of Department Rules and Regulations and result in discipline ranging from verbal counseling, additional training to a writtten reprimand. More serious infractions and Citizen Complaints are investigated by Internal Affairs and if the charge is sustained, discipline could range from days off without pay to termination. The vast majority of Police Chiefs today take the conduct and discipline of their employees very seriously and there is not much wrist slapping which goes on. A Civilian Review Board does absolutely nothing to add to the credibility or effectiveness of the Police dicipline process. In fact, it would hinder the end result because Officers and their Police Association would only cooperate under duress and that means a waste of time and money. Since you seem to be a big expert on employee discipline, please share with us how your employer deals with discipline issues, assuming of course you have a job?
How a private corporation reviews policy and discipline isn’t comparable to police oversight. Just what conversation are you expecting to have? Great attempt to bolster your argument by attacking my character. Really makes your argument look strong.
Here’s the problem with your view: “In fact, it would hinder the end result because Officers and their Police Association would only cooperate under duress and that means a waste of time and money.”
Why on God’s green earth would a police officer only cooperate under duress?
Ryan, no challenge to your character, just asking for clarification of how the discipline process works at your job. Without knowing anything about it, I can guarantee that is pales in comparison to that which we subject Cops to.
On the point of cooperating with a Citizen Review Board, just let me ask you a question, “You have been grabbed by a group of angry vigilantes for something you may, or may not have done. Would you cooperate with this mob knowing full well that they were not interested in finding the truth, but just hanging you from the nearest tree? Look around the country where Civilian Review Boards are in place and that is exactly the attitude you find and why Cops hate the process. Given the severity of the Internal Affairs System, in most cases it is objective and the Officer knows if they didn’t do anything wrong, they will get a fair shake. Additionally, in the IA process, the Officer has no choice and even under duress the law requires they cooperate or be fired. Again, I ask you the does such a system exist where you work?
Given the penchant for gay-bashing you recently exhibited in the OC Weekly‘s comments sections, Patrick, I can’t consider you a credible source as to what should constitute a “black eye” for police.
Greg considering your reputation as a Cop basher and liberal, don;t confuse me with someone who gives a shit about how you see me.
I am sorry, but I am not a good Christian and don’t turn the other cheek. I also don’t bash anyone, unless they cast the first stone. Your foul mouth BFF’s on the commentary on the pros and cons of “Gay Marriage.” started the exchange and I wasn’t bashful about taking them on. I have no personal ax to grind with gay people, hired a number of them over the years and they did an outstanding job as part of the Team. I consider them to be friends and I am always loyal to my friends. That said, I still have my personal beliefs about marriage and on that point I disagree with my friends, but respect their position. If the law changes and Gay Marriage becomes the rule, we will all accept it, but I will never embrace it as my belief. That, Greg is how the process works and I support the system
I’m a bad-cop basher, Patrick; I’m not a cop-basher generally. (I recognize that police are both necessary and at risk. I also recognize some things about them that you also know but would likely deny.) I’ve had good general relations (as well as hard negotiations) with both the Irvine and Fullerton PD and intervened to settle the final dispute of Occupy OC with the HBPD. So you can either lay down your cards there — or fold them.
As to why I call you a homophobe — do you really want a bill of particulars?
I can’t say that I am always loyal to my friends. I try to be kind and forgiving and as supportive as possible to my friends — but in public life my loyalty to the Constitution. Do you truly but your friends before it?
Greg, I have been defending, not just talking about the Constitution since I was eighteen years old. I will do so until the time I depart this place. In my book, one can be loyal to both friends and to the document. As with the military, Cops are also a Band of Brothers by the nature of the job they do. It makes no difference what uniform they wear, or the shape of their badge. Any of us would willingly give up their life for the other if the circumstances required it. That attitude develops a pretty close bond. That said, this means that if my friends step out of line, violate the Constitution, commit a crime, or abuse their power, they become a “former friend.” Mike Corona was an example, where I went from friend to “former friend.”
I really don’t want to get into any further discussion on Gay Marriage, so you can spare me the list of homophobe traits you think I have. I will just wait for the Supreme Court to rule and then we will see where the law falls.
“Any of us would willingly give up their life for the other if the circumstances required it.”
Total, unadulterated bullshit.
Your “band of brothers” bond is your pecuniary interest. Hero.
The sad part of it all is that those same Fullerton Cops you love to trash, would do the same for you as a citizen. Of course ass holes like yourself are always all blow and no show when it comes to te realities of life. Guess it takes all kinds doesn’t it?
I am sure there are some great cops on the force in every city who show up to work committed to the idea of laying their life down for their community, and I am very glad that they are not often called upon to do so. Anaheim has lost 4 officers in the line of duty in the entire history of the department. On the other hand, many of us have encountered that very small but unfortunately real percentage of the force that feel that since they would die for each other, lying and covering for each other is a pretty easy sacrifice, and it is that very small percentage that ruin it for the rest. LtPar for all your blustering that the good cops will clean out the bad ones and self-police the force, why is it that we NEVER hear charges being brought against bad cops based on accusations from other whistle-blower cops? Can you explain that to me please?
The Fullerton FPD has done an excellent job of trashing itself – without regret or apology. I have never heard of a Fulerton cop intentionally offering his life in place of a civilian. If you can share an example, please do.
I know all about the “realities of life” without being a self-entitled “public safety” union employee. The public is finally getting a clue about the size of the scam you cops have going. And you hate it.
Wow Officer Rodgers!
Amazing what 25 years does! The last time I saw your band of brothers (IPD) they were peddling steroids in an Irvine gym with Biscotti, Nolan and the crooked cop Jerry something or another.
I guess everybody had give up the dream and get a haircut and become productive members of society (or Republicans).
With all due respect LtPar, I believe your arguments are baseless please see my rebuttal below.
Lt Par; “another layer of amateur Cop haters, second guessing the actions an Officer makes in a split second decision. “
Why is it that law enforcement (or wanna-be law enforcement?) always assumes these review board will be stacked with cop haters? Paranoid much? Mayor Tait specifically asked the City manager to come back with a process that removes Council selection of the members, so they CANNOT be hand picked, in an effort to avoid cronyism or the accusations that members are selected for their cop hating views. Now keep in mind this is the same Council that just hand picked their Citizens Advisory Committee for district elections, so we need to find a way better way, but nobody calls the Grand Jury a bunch of cop haters, there has to be a system like that for creating this process.
LtPar; “Mayor Tait needs to grow up and quit prostituting himself to the small vocal minority who do not represent the community as a whole.”
Who is prostituting themselves here? Tait does not take money from those of us asking for help with our Police force. In contrast, those leaders opposing the proposal for a review board took plenty of cash from the APA during their campaigns. In 2012 the APA spent over $200k on those leaders. And why the assumption that this is a small vocal minority? Like Pringle you are being pretty arrogant in assuming you speak for the majority, would you like to show me your recent public opinion poll?
LtPar; ‘Having a inexperienced civilians looking over the shoulders of the Officers and passing judgment on what did or didn’t happen, is most certainly “second guessing.”’
We already have a system like that, it is called a jury, and they select 12 individuals without experience in law enforcement, in fact it would be a cold day in Hell before you could get a cop on the jury of another cop. Indeed, the Grand Jury that might investigate, and collect evidence and info in anticipation of an indictment is also made up of everyday people. Oops.
LtPar; :”This is not to say that the Cops on occasion do not make mistakes, violate policies and procedures and even commit criminal acts themselves?”
Ah, there is the problem, we know from basic human nature there has to be at least SOME percentage of law enforcement professionals who step over the line, and yet there have been NO charged from the OC DA in all these decades, other than the Kelly Thomas case. So what is it you would suggest? If you admit there is at least a chance that some violate policies, procedures, and even commit criminal acts themselves, and the DA is not pursuing charges, who is supposed to do it? Or do we just look the other way?
LtPar; “Ryan, the way Municipal Government works is that the City Council is elected and has total control over how the City is run. They hire a professional City Manager as the CEO and he carries out their orders. A City Council can be as little involved or as much involved in the managing of City affairs as they choose. Most choose not to be micro managers and let the City Manager and his Team run the organization.”
I am sorry sir, but you are misinformed. While each city is different in its makeup, I assume you are referring to Anaheim here, since that is the subject of the thread. As a Charter City, Anaheim’s City Council oversees only 4 people, the executive team of City Manager, City Treasurer, City Clerk, and City Attorney. They have zero authority to even tell a parks person to pick up litter. They may chew out the City Manager for a poorly run park system, and the City manager then calls in the head of Parks who then chews out their head of grounds keeping, but City Council does not have the authority to issue orders, or oversee a disciplinary action regarding staff who are not directly reporting to them. In short, Kris Murray’s claim (and yours sir) that they are the oversight is horse shit.
Come to think of it, we have caught Kerry Condon flat out lying about easily provable mistruths, and Council has not said or done anything to correct him, why should we have any inkling they would discipline him or his team over even more serious charges?
LtPar; “If you want to be an informed community activist as opposed to one who just shoots from the hip on the internet,”
Sir, you have no idea who I am, how or where I live, or what my experience with those on either side of the law enforcement battle may have been, so how do you feel qualified to pass judgment on me? So far you have not made a valid case in any of your arguments here. Perhaps it is you who might spend more time wedged between the gangs and drug dealers of Anaheim, and the Police who alternately shoot them or protect them, depending on who the dealers are related to. Wise up, buddy. Those knights in shining armor you want to defend sometimes have tarnish on the chestplate, and the public, and the good officers, deserve a system that deals effectively with them. Your favored option to do nothing is not working for any of us. Can you honestly say what we have today is a raging success?
Cynthia, I have neither the time or interest in reponding to your rationalism of my previous comments. I will just conclude with this. I do not know you or what you stand for except what I see you write. At the same time, you are in the same boat when it comes to me. My intent is not to judge you, or for that maner anyone else, but to merely suggest that if you want to espouse your views, at least be factual. Don’t presume to judge the Cops until you have taken the time to get to know them, what they do and how your law enforcement agency serves the community. End of discussion.
In your opinion, though, we can judge (alleged) gang members and their families — including those who are trying to be law-abiding except for not wanting to be treated like second-class citizens without Fourth Amendment rights — without having taken the time to get to know them and what they do, right?
This is why this sort of thing ends up in court, where extreme pronouncements about what one must do before being able to judge evidence are disallowed.
Greg, judge whomever you want in whatever way you choose. In my book, every person I have ever arrested over my career was innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the court. It was my job to put the case together, produce the evidence and testify to the facts in order to convince the court to find the suspect guilty. If I did my job the right way, the suspect was convicted and sentenced. If we made mistakes, or didn’t do it the right way, the suspect walked. I did not always agree with the System, but it was the one we had to work with and I believe to be the best in the world.