I turned on the news this morning to see whats happening and what a surprise — another shooting. This time on a Texas college campus. At the moment there are too many conflicting accounts of what happened. One story is there were 2 people in the library who decided to settle their differences with guns and some innocent bystanders were shot in the crossfire. This latest incident happened at Lone Star College outside Houston, Texas — they do have campus police in case anyone was wondering.
This post is not about this incident though because I think shootings like this will become just another day in the good-ole-USA…even if we are all allowed to openly carry weapons. Did anyone see the series Deadwood a few years ago? It was a show about Deadwood South Dakota before it became a state and it was historically accurate. People were constantly shot or stabbed over any little thing. Criminals were the law makers. Is this the kind of environment we want to raise kids? Do we want to go back to the Wild West days because that’s where we are headed.
I’m not going to go into my opinion about gun control again because I really don’t think any laws are going to work until we, as a nation decided to change our views about violence and what we are willing to put up with. You heard this kind of talk from George Bush when he was president, but he was referring to the middle east, especially Afghanistan when he gave the “we have to change their hearts and minds” speech. I say we stop worrying about other countries and their violence and clean up our own house.
This country was founded on violence. It started with exterminating the American Indian so we could steal there land…back then settlers justified their actions as part of their “manifest destiny” — in other words they had God’s blessing. When The Native Americans fought back, they were seen as the “bad guys” and were portrayed that way for years on western movies.
Then someone came up with the idea to bring slaves to this country because working the land was just too hard for the white man. Something, according to Larry Ward, the chairman for Gun Appreciation Day, ” wouldn’t have happened if slaves were armed.” I won’t even comment on that remark except that he is the reason why history repeats itself.
Then we had the Jim Crow laws and all the problems that came with that. Now whites are blaming all our problems on Mexicans, single mothers, Muslims, Gays, and on and on. What do all these issues have in common?We do not see ourselves as connected. I am including all of us in this because we as a collective group, called Americans have a part to play in this. Instead of debating about the amount of guns we have or how to control them being used in crimes, we should be talking about how we treat each other. If we truly followed the Christian teachings that so many claim to believe in, then we would treat our neighbors like ourselves. How can we go around telling other countries to be more like us when our example is one of handling our problems with violence?
Our nation is divided it seems — on everything. Each group sees themselves as victims and blames other groups who either look different than them or live different lifestyles as the ones creating the problems we have today. The media certainly has a part to play in this. They love a good story. I’m not saying they shouldn’t report on whats happening but they always somehow seem to beat that story to death. Then we have reality television which is anything but reality. These shows glamorize bad behavior and cheating. Slapping someone around makes good t.v. ratings. Its like Americans can’t help but get sucked into drama. Eventually we become desensitized and see this behavior as normal, especially kids.
Most kids still watch too much television and play violent video games. I know parents work long hours but someone has to be raising our kids and television doesn’t cut it. The number one responsibility for parents is to raise their kids to hopefully become a productive member of society. When the parents are gone all the time — the only role models kids see are those on television.
Then of course we have our foreign policy which seems to consist of sticking our noses in other countries’ business. Not all countries, just those who have “stuff” we want…like oil. Drones are now our preferred way to solve problems — its so easy for someone to sit somewhere in the U.S.– push a button and wipe out an entire family across the globe because we think one of our enemies happen to be there. Its just another video game with real life consequences– at least it is for those on the receiving end. How long will it be before they are used right in the good-ole-USA?
Do you get it yet? We are all connected. What happens to others — happens to us. We are our own worst enemy and it seems to be getting worse. You see it in the dialogue between politicians.; the media, pundits, radio show “entertainers” — groups like the Tea Party and dare I say it? Occupy. They are right and everyone else is wrong. There is no room for dialogue; no place for civil discussion. “It’s my way or the highway”. Take no prisoners! Any compromise is seen as “caving in” to the other side. The language is getting worse and the divide is enormous. No one wants to listen to each other who has differing viewpoints –its all about knee jerk reactions. It’s about egos and seeing ourselves as superior to someone else, for whatever reason. Now its escalated for some to solving their problems with gunfire. I don’t care if they are called crazy, mentally ill, sociopath, didn’t get enough hugs when they were kids or just plain pissed off. Is this the nation we want the world to think is the “greatest country” on earth? Really???
“Did anyone see the series Deadwood a few years ago? It was a show about Deadwood South Dakota before it became a state and it was historically accurate. People were constantly shot or stabbed over any little thing…”
Yes, but… the way people spoke on that show – Shakespeare with F-Bombs! That would make it worth it to me. Well….almost.
*Every hear of Lonesome Dove? How about the 25 movies made about the Clanton gang and their war with the Earps and Doc Holiday at the OK Corral?
How about one of the best movies ever made: “The Wild Bunch”? Hey, you can find everything from those very real examples to items like “Shane” and “High Noon”. They had both Liberal and very Conservative types of movies about the Wild West. Neither were accurate. The truth is….that the average gun fight took place within 3 ft. of the two participants. The truth is that most gunfights occurred when one guy shot the other guy in the back of the head.
Twlo of the best movies ever “The Searchers” with John Wayne (his only really good movie) and “The Outlaw Josey Wales”…with Clint Eastwood.
Both are accurate and totally inaccurate. It’s old California story….”You kinda had to be there!” Joachin Murretta and Zorro were both real and made into cartoon figures. Kit Carson and Buffalo Bill Cody were real and had some pretty strong egos too! Did they do everything that the pulp fiction or comic books said they did? Nah….but they were still American heroes.
Annie Oakley……the best trick shot artist ever!
STOP IT, STOP IT! You guys are “commenting like the Winships.”
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/11/comment-like-the-winships-weekend-open-thread/
“The number one responsibility for parents is to raise their kids to hopefully become a productive member of society. When the parents are gone all the time — the only role models kids see are those on television.”
Nailed it: Culture of Care.
Culture of Care + More Mental Health Treatment Programs + Sensible, Enforced Gun Regulations = Holistic Approach to Gun Violence
is south dakota a state?
The story of Deadwood I am referrring to is before they became a state.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gtusa/usa/sd/deadwood.htm
The person who pulls the trigger, is the answer to the title question. Plain and simple.
You can’t blame anyone else for the actions of those who, by free choice, do what they know is wrong. Any other blame is just wrong. I don’t for a heartbeat think anyone who commits a criminal act against another person isn’t aware they have done wrong, even if they are mentally unstable, except under very rare, unique and extreme conditions.
You can’t blame me, if you decided to drive into someone else, steal, rape or rob. Just as because I’m a man, does not make me a rapist, nor a potential rapist. You can’t blame me, if you decide you want to call me insulting names because you disagree with me. I choose to try my very best to be polite and honest when I answer and if that upsets others, then I am sorry, but your reactions or actions are your responsibility not mine.
I think one of the things that is missing in society today is personal responsibility for our own actions. Too many folks are willing to make excuses for why things happen and not enough are willing to step up and take responsibility for their actions.
The points you make about blame can be made about almost every ethnic group not just one. Everybody blames somebody else, I guess because it’s too easy not to take responsibility for our own actions. Why anyone wants to be a victim (or even perceived as such) confuses me however. I don’t understand why anyone would give up even the perception of having some, even a little, control over their own fate.
One of the basic skills that’s missing, especially in our education system, is critical thinking, which is needed to have a productive, healthy and vibrant society. Civility and effective communication wouldn’t be bad to cultivate either. But those are just my suggestions.
Most of the law makers are still, mostly criminals. They may get elected by being honest, but few leave that way. There is simply too much temptation. Just look at how many go into political life as middle income earners and come out as millionaires. I think there are some, but they are not the norm.
I fully agree with you about the media! That’s one of the reasons I am here. I also agree with you on the way “we” treat others, both as a nation and on a social level and in our daily life as individuals.
Some factual points of history for everyone to digest.
Violence has been a part of human civilization from the very beginning and it has gotten better, overall, as time goes on. It is my hope that the trend of diminishing violence continues. I can’t think of ANY country that doesn’t have its roots in violence. If you can come up with one, PLEASE inform us. There may be some that I simply can’t think of. I am willing to learn, really I am.
We had slaves here in the America almost as soon as Europeans got here. Well, in point of fact, it predated the arrival of Europeans as many indigenous peoples also had slaves as conquest from wars. The Aztec society had a very distinct class of slaves but they were not unique in that regard. Slaves have been a part of the human civilization since before written history.
The code of Ur-Nammu one of the oldest surviving (2100-2050 BCE) law tablet contains codes relating to slaves. The Code of Hammurabi, 1700 BCE speaks about the condition and rules of some aspects of slavery. Slavery in China goes back to at least the Shang Dynasty (1600-1046 BCE) and the Qin Dynasty used slaves to build the beautiful Terracotta Army. It certainly isn’t unique to Europeans or America.
“The person who pulls the trigger, is the answer to the title question. Plain and simple.”
Do semi-automatic guns with, say, 30-clip magazines enable a person to kill more people in a shorter amount of time than, say, with a revolver?
Anon,
If you want to limit magazines to x amount of rounds, are you also willing to require that the LEO’s do the same?
Well it’s very sly of you to avoid my question, but I’ll play.
No. They’re trained law enforcement officers. We’re not.
Does that answer your question?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-investigate-las-vegas-cop-killed-family/story?id=18287084
They’re also not perfect.
If these weapons and magazines are inherently dangerous, they don’t belong in our communities.
So did he allegedly kill his family BECAUSE he was a cop?
In truth the magazine size has less to do with lethality than you might imagine. While it may seem to be logical to arrive at the presumption that increased magazine size equals greater lethality, it isn’t really true. It depends totally on the skill of the operator of the how effective any firearm is, for any given task, be it target, hunting or self defense.
Loads of criminals and their intended victims too, shoot wildly and often don’t hit anything, even when their target is at VERY close range. I think the liquor store video posted earlier is a very good example of that fact. It’s right at the beginning of the 20/20 piece.
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2013/01/if-i-only-had-a-gun-video-experiment-from-abcs-2020-is-something-to-see/
While you might be able to argue that any one of the individuals MIGHT have had a better chance of hitting their target if they had twice as many bullets, it’s sort of like thinking you can increase your lottery odds by purchasing more tickets. The math simply doesn’t work out.
Conversely, it’s like saying than smaller soft drinks or smaller spoons would solve the obesity problem in this country. Which actually kills far more people than all forms of homicide. I know it’s stupid, but there is a rational and logical argument there.
I know of folks that are faster with revolvers than a self loading firearm can function, Bill Munden for example. I certainly wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of Bill’s abilities even if he only had one shot!
I have fired more rounds in training than most LEO’s do in a career, prior to becoming ill. I have shot on local ranges right along with LEO’s that were qualifying for their dept’s. I was appalled with what I saw on numerous occasions. However a LEO is much less likely to use firearm skills on a daily basis than people skills. So in that light I understand they need to be better talkers and listeners than shooters in their daily duties. Most LEO’s will never fire their weapons in the line of duty while they serve.
However I would never want to limit the abilities of ANYONE to defend themselves if they are put into the position of doing so. Especially if they are confronted with multiple assailants, LEO or otherwise.
“In truth the magazine size has less to do with lethality than you might imagine.”
Try convincing the parents of the Sandy Hook students, some of whom had up to 11 gunshot wounds, of that.
“inherently dangerous”……is that like BPA’s, High Frutose Corn Syrup, GMO Crops, Chemical spills or a date with Lindsay Lohan….? Things like that?
Carl, please read my article again. Maybe meditate on it? We are all responsible for what happens because we do nothing and say nothing when we see something weird going on. We figure if it isn’t happening directly to use — it isn’t happening.
I don’t care whats happening in other countries, please stay on topic. We are talking about us the United States of America. I am talking about OUR history, which is founded on violence.
So Anon using your logic then all shotguns should be banned as well?
Did I say that?
I’m suggesting to you that all firearms are not created equal. And that some of them kill with greater efficiency, in greater numbers, in less time, than others.
Anon,
No you didn’t say that. However knowing a bit about firearms, it would be a logical and rational conclusion to arrive at. While it might not play well emotionally it has some relevance to the conversation.
IF what you are saying, lethality is the real reason.
I’ll tell what’s illogical…assuming that because some of us want to see certain KINDS of guns and ammo clips banned, that means we want ALL guns banned.
You know, as long as we’re talking logically.
*On C-Span today Winnie from Center for Progressives or something said that 62% of people thought they should do away with Assault Like Firearms…
OK…..how many of that 62% presently currently has an Assault Like Firearm? Our bet….ZERO. Whatever you don’t know anything about ..always sounds dangerous. Bungee Jumping and Zip Lines scare the devil out of us!
This isn’t like bungee jumping. It’s like bungee jumping over Times Square while carrying vials of nitroglycerin. The problem is not what happens to you, it’s what maintaining the policies that give you all of the freedoms you want does to others.
Winships,
So it’s your contention that, of those 62%, Absolutely NOBODY knows anything about Assault-Like Firearms. Every single person…they’ve never seen one, heard about one, read about one, heard about one used in a shooting, heard about large capacity clips.
Zero, right?
Has anyone even read the Second Amendament? Or is is like the Bible where people cherry pick quotes and most don’t have a clue what’s in it?
“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment
Notice the 2 words no one wants to talk about? “well regulated?”
Here’s another word — “militia” what does that word mean?
mi·li·tia
/məˈliSHə/
Noun
1.A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
2.A military force that engages in rebel activities.
Has anyone heard of the National Guard?
The NRA and the gun manufacturers along with their spokepersons (conspiracy theory nuts) have Amercians in fear mode and they are laughing all the way to the bank…but thats another topic…one I will be posting about soon….
Well, Inge, they’ll tell you (correctly) that the Supreme Court has interpreted that, more than once, to include individual ownership of guns.
But you’re right about “well regulated” – they like to just pretend THOSE two words don’t exist!
How do you all think that the SAUSD should handle a 4th or 5th grade elementary school student who brought a BB gun to school and shot another student in the face at the school? Suspension … expulsion? This happened just yesterday.
I’d think it would be one of those. To decide which, I’d need more facts both about the events and about existing school policies.
Skallywag, I agree with Greg’s answer
“SAUSD School Police investigating pellet gun incident at Muir Elementary”
“A sad story is developing at John Muir Fundamental Elementary School – one of the top schools in the Santa Ana Unified School District.”
“Apparently a fifth grader brought a pellet gun to school and waited for his victim to come his way. The shooter is now suspended, for five days, while the Santa Ana School Police investigate the matter ..”
http://newsantaana.com/2013/01/24/sausd-school-police-investigating-pellet-gun-incident-at-muir-elementary/
Ambushing the victim? That’s an aggravating circumstance.
Not that it justifies the act, but — was bullying considered to be involved, in either direction?
When I was a kid, there was bullying but back then kids solved their problems with their fists, but now guns, pellet, or otherwise are the norm because they have easy access.
I frankly don’t care what the problem is, weapons are not acceptable. If a kid is being bullied then the parents need to get involved.
When my son was 9 there was a kid in school who decided James was his target for the day. I don’t remember all the facts but I do remember this kid was by my house and name calling was exchanged. I went outside to see what was going on and the kid showed me his pocket knife…in a threatening way.
I immediately drove to the school and met with the principal…told him what happened and that kid was suspended…end of problem. Adults have to get involved when they trouble. There was another time I was walking by a school and there were 2 boys hitting and kicking another boy. A man who was also walking by ran over and seperated them and waited until the recess monitor showed up.
We have to get involved. When I was a kid, my neighbors told my parents on me when I was doing something wrong and so did my teacher. Yes it does take a village to raise kids.
*Our darling Inge….we do love your reports and thoughts on just about everything.
Just one final “thought balloon”…..
In today’s society….they give kids drugs to alter their behavior as early as five years old. The violence in society can be watched on every television in America…..with stupid people running away in car chases…and more than that……the Cyber Bullying is egregious and poor little girls and guys are being picked on the minute they start a Facebook page. The violence continues with dreadfully and awful video games like “Tour of Duty”, “Going Postal” and “Gone in 60 Seconds”. The computer violent thought and sexual gratuity is prevalent and invasive in every aspect of our society. So-called Regular TV……teaches every aberrant behavior under the sun….through popular so-called comedy or dramatic shows. The 24 news cycle praises the most despicable in our society by giving them all a place to show their wears…….”American Greed” shows that even the so-called Pillars of Society have feet of clay. The element of hopelessness, homelessness, bad food, bad prescription drugs, bad medicine, bad politicians, bad and corrupt governement offciials….and more. Different times because we now “see all the warts and all the imperfections in society. We see the horrendous killing of our Ambassador and the near killing of the 5 year old in a old in Alabama.
We need to be sure to send the message to those in our society that still have a fairly good outlook. “No, the government is not coming to get you!” and “No, you can keep whatever firearm you believe might be able to protect your family……if bad days ever come to your town and your street.”
“No, the government is not coming to get you!” and “No, you can keep whatever firearm you believe might be able to protect your family.”
You got the first part right.
The second part…..dead wrong.
You can’t keep whatever firearm you want. Remember the “well regulated” part of the second amendment? No? Is that part inconvenient to your wet dreams?
If you feel you need a shoulder fired Stinger to feel safe….move to Syria. It’s not acceptable or Constitutional here.
Quit trying to make people feel hopeless and helpless without massive firepower.
That’s your personal shortcoming.
“Remember the “well regulated” part of the second amendment?”……… Hmmmmm
The well regulated militia and not well regulated arms.
You are presenting same stupid leftist argument like “illegal immigrants” vs. “immigrants” which is base on the leftist’s limitation to comprehend reality.
Based on my remote leftist upbringing in CSSR, I am interpreting the 2nd that I get 2 free hamburgers in the McDonalds with purchase of one assault rifle. I can prove it to you that it is actually written in the 2nd.
So you’re good with the shoulder fired Stinger ?
Same stoopid “I can have any gun I want argument.”
To be fair, a Stinger isn’t gun . . . so it’s not exactly the same argument.
I’m glad that you see the difference. I don’t think a lot of the gun advocates do.
The phrase “you can keep whatever firearm you believe might be able to protect your family”, offers no limits.
“So you’re good with the shoulder fired Stinger”…… Hmmmmmm
Yes!….. and I would expect 4 Hamburgers as is written in the 2nd.
But I hate to burst your leftist bubble.
The 2nd speaks about THE ARMS you moron mongoloids, NOT GUNS which does include Stinger, Hellfire and SCAD.
When do you gone learn how to read your own language.
When government imposes a regulation on Wall Street, is it the actual street, the pavement, that gets regulated?
No, it’s entities or financial instruments that get regulated.
Being a literalist will take you down some truly illogical paths.
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hambuger today.