This was a rough week for me and a few of my co-bloggers. We became aware late last week of an effort by some of the members of the Santa Ana City Council to remove us from our City Commission posts because of our work on this blog.
But those Council members got punked when an L.A. Times reporter found out what was going on. She spent the entire week making calls and getting quotes, some damning, from the Council members.
The story was supposed to break today, but mysteriously it either got killed or was moved to tomorrow’s edition of the Times, Orange County edition.
It might be a moot point by now. Council members Vince Sarmiento, Sal Tinajero and Michele Martinez refused to play ball with the rest of the Council and apparently we may survive this little micro storm.
I have no problem being dismissed as a City Commissioner if I am doing a bad job in that regard. But you may ask any of my peers on the Housing and Redevelopment Commission about my performance and I am sure that they will not have anything negative to say.
Gordon and Mill have likewise served in exemplary fashion on their respective city commissions.
Apparently free speech still matters in Santa Ana, at least to a few brave Council members. Kudos to them for making what had to be a difficult stand.
My sources tell me that some folks in our city are very mad at this blog because we have ended a city culture of secrecy. This blog has brought more to light in a few years than any of our local newspapers have in twenty years. And many city leaders don’t like that.
We serve at the pleasure of the council members who appointed us. They may remove us at any time. Until then, I think I can speak for Mill and Gordon when I say that we will continue to work hard as city commissioners to do what is right for the people of Santa Ana.
And as bloggers we will continue to shed light on the corruption that has been a way of life in our city for far too long. If that ends up costing us our commission appointments, then so be it. The truth won’t be silenced anymore, whatever the price.
Hmmm… do we really need a newspaper article to reveal the council members and residents who have led the charge in attempting to silence certain commissioners?
Betcha JS, DMcE, DH and TR have their fingerprints all over this attempt to squash these commissioners right to free speech. How soon these city characters have forgotten that past council members attempted the same maneuver to rid Tom Lutz of his city commissioner position.
Yes, JS, DMcE, DH and TR are a fine tribe of hypocrites!
which Council members supported free speech and who did NOT?
Art,
I have always maintained that if we were doing a poor job as commissioners or if the councilmembers that appointed us wanted us removed, we should go. This attempt to get back at us for what is written on this blog just shows how thin skinned some folks in town really are.
They say that because we are commissioners what we say here does not reflect well on the city. Have the Mayor and others forgotten the awful things they said about Sal Tinajero during the last election? How did that reflect on the city?
The things said on this blog are downright mild compared the hateful and slanderous things said about Sal during the campaign. Also, at least what we say here is based in fact and not just made up like the lies about Sal were.
This will not go away Art and Thomas. They will keep coming after us. Don’t forget the “usual suspects” went after me before I was even appointed. They see their grip on power slipping away and are desperate to keep it. Lashing out at us is just one of the ways they will try to do so.
Thanks to Sal and Vince for never wavering in their support of us. Their loyalty will be repaid.
Don’t lump Thomas Gordon in with you and Sean. Thomas doesn’t try to rip people apart and bad mouth those he is taking to task in his blogging articles.
This is not about free speech; this is about proper decorum from appointed city commissioners. You and Sean are the poorest examples. It’s one thing to point out problems in the city and disagree with how they are being handled, it’s another to lie, name call, malign and basically rip apart everyone but your appointing council member, Michelle Martinez.
In fact, the only problem childern there are in the commissioner ranks are the two of you – Martinez appointees. This further shows she’s too young and inexperienced to be on council. You, Sean and the rest of the commissioners should be well-spoken and respectful at all times, even when disagreeing with people. To the contrary, you make those of us live here in Santa Ana look like a bunch of idiots to the rest of the county by the crap you put in print. You’re both bad ambassadors and should be removed from any appointments within the city. Michelle Martinez should be leading the way on this. The fact that she’s not speaks volumes of her character as well. Hopefully, somebody finally says enough and sues you and this blog for libel real soon. You’re nothing but a couple of cocky blog thugs who think much higher of themselves than do those around you. No wonder no credible individual long-endures here as a blogger.
#4,
First off can you point to anything that I have written here that is a lie?
Proper decorum? So then you support the removal of Julie Stroud and Lupe Moreno from their positions as well right? I would not want you to be a hypocrite now.
Now here is where you run into a problem, you don’t have your facts straight. Both of us aren’t Martinez appointees. Go back and do your homework before you come on here and slander Art and myself.
While you’re at it, say “hi” to the rest of the “usual suspects”.
How does “free speech still matter in Santa Ana” when you refuse anonymous bloggers?
Hey Sean,
Julie Stroud and Lupe Moreno don’t pull the same stunts you and Art do. They don’t have a blog and when they do say something about elected officials, they don’t try and rip them and their families apart personally nor do they post, or allow anonymous posters to do the same. Poster #5 is absolutely correct when he/she said you two should be removed as commissioners.
Actually, if you and Art were any kind of real men, you’d resign so you could continue your bad mouthing unhindered until someone sues you for lying about them. Actually, Art is way worse than you in that category.
#7,
Point to something that I have said that is not true. Can you cite one lie that I have posted here.
I have never ripped the families of anyone on this blog or anywhere else for that matter. On the other hand attacks against my family were commonplace. So stop with the spin and the lies.
As far as Julie and Lupe go, the things they have said a far worse. They hate spewed both both women is an afront to the overwhelming majority of Santa Ana’s Latino community.
I have no intention of resigning because I have done nothing wrong in my capacity as a commissioner. Can you cite something that I have done in my capacity as a commissioner that merits my removal.
Why is it not okay for me to criticiize folks, but it is just fine for Julie and others to bash Sal and Vince? Can you say double standard?
Were you supportive of the removal of Tom Lutz from the Planning Commission? If not, why not? He bad mouthed one of the councilmembers.
Great News but keep up your guard! They Gadfly crowd will keep after you because you turned over the apple cart and now they can’t be in charge of the entire city anymore! Now they can’t go after and punish the venders, and front yard fences, and street corner sign spinners, and all things Mexican that drive them nuts! Lo Siento mucho Gringos!! HAHAHA!
I have been at COMM-LINK meetings and neighborhood events and heard the gadflys you mention bad mouthing the three of you! They thought they still had the political power to strip you of your board seats. Now they are seeing that a new day has dawned in Santana and THE PEOPLE are regaining control NOT special Anglo interests! They used to treat the rest of us like peasants and thought that only bad things could come from Santana becoming more diverse. Oh sure, they would pay lip service to Latino events and culture when it served them but in thier hearts they thought of us as second class citizens. Now they are finding that their racist policys are being wiped away and they hate that they can’t pick up the phone and get you all kicked off boards. Soon they will sell their homes and leave. And the city will be a better place to live when they do!
-This comment has been modified to remove the usual obscenity used in the post from this commenter-
==================================
“Free speech prevails in Santa Ana, for now”
Since this post will not get printed in OJ the free speech is dead and Leftist Fascism is life….. you f*****g a******s.
-Stan
You tell’em Stan. These OJ bloggers only spew socialist crapola and we should not allow that type of speech. Only logical “Stanisms” full of curse words and hate should be allowed.
Who are they too question the great Stanley Fiala? Socialist crapola spewers, that’s who. You are the one with a successful blogging career.
Just look at the success of your????? Well look at the success of your????
I can’t think of anything you’ve been successful at but a man as great as you has to be successful. No crapola from you buddy.
That marital advice you gave me was good and bad though Stanley ol’ boy. When my wife starting talking crapola I did as you said and punched her in the mouth and she shut up. The only drawback is that I got arrested.
I am do in court next month. Can I count on you to be there for me with some of that crack legal advice you always have?
You’re the best Stan!!!!
The shroud of secrecy is slowly being exposed and those entrenched in perpetuating this brand of government feel threatened.
Blogs thrive because there’s a need to exchange information and/or fill the void that mainstream print and media ignore.
It’s not perfect, but it’s a damn good start. Keep the spotlight turned up; the cockroaches are starting to scurry.
#6
The OJ has nothing against anonymous bloggers and many post as anonymous on this blog. If you are a commentator, the guidelines of the OJ respectively request you identify yourself. And that’s the perogative of the blog owner.
Dear Orange Juice Readers,
It looks like the LA Times changed their mind. Their article will be in Monday’s paper…just in time for the City Council meeting.
We will be there of course.
Thanks to those of you who have expressed support for free speech and our blog!
You say that 3 councilmembers opposed your removal. Are we to believe that those 3 out-voted the other 3 plus the Mayor? Or was another of those 4 also opposed but you don’t want to acknowledge it? Or does “some members of the Santa Ana City Council” mean one or two? Or are you just kinda unclear about EXACTLY what EACH of those 7 actually thinks about the issue?
Art, Sean, Thomas,
You are to be commended for your service. Both here and on the commissions.
I’m pleased to here that the article will appear Monday as opposed to the Saturday edition, which few people read.
Remember: the bigger they are, the harder they fall.
n2justice,
What I heard is that Pulido would not go forward without a unanimous vote.
Does that answer your question?
I am indeed aware as to the stance of each Council Member. But the Times article is coming on Monday. No telling how they will reach when their actions are broadcast on the front page of the Times’ local news section.
Art,
That’s an interesting tidbit, but I guess it doesn’t answer my question. Perhaps the Times article will shed light on this.
This whole thing smells like an “inside the beltway”-style smackdown among insiders jockeying for influence.
n2justice,
I am sorry I cannot be more specific. The Times article will indeed be quite illuminating.
I am not an insider jockeying for influence. I hardly talk to ANY of the Council members.
I am a concerned resident and a blogger. Apparently some on the Council took umbrage at my work as a blogger and decided to toss me off my commission.
And apparently they blinked when the Times reporter started calling them. All of them.
Let’s see what happens on Monday.
Art,
Well I think that if “some on this council” feel threatened by what is written on this blog, they really need to get a grip. They MAY be overestimating its real-world influence.
n2fibbing,
maybe you can explain why your little buddy benavidez reads the blog everyday while at his cushy job the mayor got him down in newport beach at downey savings.
2njustice,
Are you serious? This story is about to break on the LA Times and all you can say is that our influence is being overestimated?
That story will have a link to this blog. God only knows how many people will find out about us for the first time.
The corruption in Santa Ana has been in place for YEARS. You had to figure that sooner or later the truth would be revealed. All we did was expedite the process.
The revolution at the council level is over and it has been over for some time. But the real revolution awaits…
Art,
Did you see that word “MAY”?
And did you see the word “overestimating”?
Overestimating doesn’t mean none.
So calm down.
#22
Maybe YOU can explain it. I have know idea what Mr. Benavides reads everyday. Do you think I’m in constant conatct with this guy or something?
Seek therapy.
n2justice –
Your feeble attempts to deflect attention from this brouhaha is mildy amusing.
Benevides does read the OJ on a daily basis for a variety of reasons; no one is force-feeding you these reports. It’s your choice to step away from it all. Your decision to get embroiled about these matters seems to indicate the OJ is on the right track about Pulido’s recent attempt to remove certain city commissioners.
Stop being a cry baby. The OJ is doing a superb job of shining the light on our elected officials and so-called city shakers and movers. If they don’t like the scrunity, then they can remove themselves from the public arena.
N2justice seemed to be making the point that this little blog is pretty tiny in the grand scheme of things. He didn’t say it is irrelevant, only that it may be a small piece of the puzzle.
Readership IS growing at OJ. But an average of about 500 readers a day is pretty modest as far as having a thundering influence. One of the costs of using your real name and identity is the fact that the bloggers have a big target painted on their backs and it will get uncomfortable from time to time as the corruption of the city and school district get exposed. The trough feeders get cranky if they fear their gravy train is coming to an end. Let’s all see who sues first. The most fearful will be the most viscious when they fear exposure.
Poster 27,
The problem for our opponents is that they DON’T want to do anything to give us any more publicity.
BTW, we check our statistics very carefully. Our universe of readers is literally in the thousands. But not everyone reads this blog every day. That is why I have started a Sunday column, the Orange Juice Week in Review, where we examine hot stories our readers might have missed.
Also, we know for a fact that the City of Santa Ana and SAUSD both block their IP addresses, so that our software cannot detect that they are reading our blog. Most likely there are at least two to three hundred additional hits a day that we don’t even know about.
It does not hurt that the OC Weekly just selected us as their favorite local blog of the year, or that the Times will publishing a story about our efforts on Monday.
This revolution started small, but it is growing!
#26
If you look at my original comment #16, you’ll see that I asked some very simple questions. How is THAT an “attempt to deflect attention from this brouhaha”?
If that was feeble, why did Art bother to respond…and then respond again?
Did I say that Mr. Benavides DOESN’T read this blog? Did I say that I’m being “force-fed” these reports”? Did I ask anyone to cease and desist the dissemination of this story? I have no idea what Benavides reads on a daily basis. You apparently do. Good for you.
I find it ironic that, in a post about free speech, you suggest that I can “step away” from commenting on this. Thank you very much, but I’ll comment on anything I like.
Did I say that this blog isn’t “shining the light on our elected officials.” No. I raised a rather rhetorical question about the blog’s influence and suggested that, in either case, it’s silly for any councilmember to feel threatened by it.
So my comments make me a cry baby? What kind of twisted logic is THAT?
Art,
You all should think about getting a booth at the next community faire or other such event. Pass out some cards with your webaddress and invitation for citizens to browse your site and comment on the threads. The very least you should do is to make up cards and pass them out at the school board meetings and city council meetings to concerned citizens.
The revolution has started. Maybe its time to throw a little gasoline on the flame.
In regards to the side discussion about how much influence this blog has and the overall readership – here is a link to demographics and population numbers for Santa Ana:
http://santaana.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm
Over 200,000 inhabitants are over 18.
A basic average of 500 readers/day is a very small. Your statistics page show that ( a bit under 500, still, actually, per the moving average stated). I understand what you are saying, Art. You have thousands of readers, however that is nowhere near the potential numbers of readers/posters who are in Santa Ana, alone.
Art, when your blog reaches 5k visitors a day, you’ll know that you are a serious force in city politics. In no way should this be seen as a comment to discourage – please take them as a real benchmark of where you are headed.
How many visitors per day read Hahn’s LA blog? And how long has he been at it? That would also give you a guide on what is possible. You guys are still scary to a number of bad people. Just imagine what can happen when your readership accelerates.
What about setting up a little paypal account in case someone wants to throw some money your way?
I’d like to pony up $100.00 for you to get some cards made up for distribution at events and meetings. Up the ante a bit.
n2justice,
Your #21 post was a thought out comment to minimize the O.J.
The responding posts were to question your objective to minimize.
The fact is that Council Members and others do feel threatened no matter how silly you think they are.Their knee jerk reaction to this threat is what is beign questioned.Most readers on this blog are above average in intelligence and can infer what an indirect message is intended to be.
#26 said you have a CHOICE to step away,that does not translate to violating your right to free speech.
I understand the 8th floor(the city’s government offices) has the O.J. on a computer all day.Department heads do the same.So do you.I don’t think any of the individuals above are silly.You are all serious people.The O.J IS a significant player.
#31,
Additionally, do statistics alone and number of hits per day equal influence? And how do we define influence. Is it simply defined by how many people read a blog? Or is it more like on-the-ground, real-world change that affects people’s lives for the better? Or is it a combination of both?
Before y’all get bent, those were rhetorical questions.
#33
My comment #21 was rhetorical in nature…did you see the word MAY there?
So people in city government read this blog? And because of that you feel they are a “significant player”. Does that mean you feel that this blog’s “influence” is mostly political in nature? (those were all questions based out of curiosity).
Cuz if you believe that the influence is political, that would lend credence to my suggestion that this episode is mostly an “inside the beltway” style smackdown between insider vying for “influence”.
n2justice,
A rhetorical statement by definition is to cause an effect- “influence”- with no answer expected.You wish to influence but don’t want responses to your thoughts???I don’t think most of us wish to be bothered with your rhetoric.
I am not sure wether to answer your other questions and comments because they might also be rhetorical.
It doesn’t matter if the blog’s “influece” is catagorized as political.All communication no matter what subject matter or intention is done to cause an effect-“influence”.
#36,
If you don’t want to address my rhetorical questions, then don’t. When did I say you were required to do so? When did I say I “expect” an answer?
But I must disagree with you when you suggest that it doesn’t matter what the nature or kind or degree of influence this blog has. That, my friend, is not an irrelevant question.
n2justice,
You are the one complaining to those that respond that they should not answer your posts because your comment or question is rhetorical.You did not suggested that you required me or others to address your rhetorical questions.In fact you suggested To me and others not to answer your rhetorical questions.Review your posts.Rhetorical questions are just not appropiate for a blog.It is not a proper venue for monologues.
This blog addresses social,economic and educational issues.Also general current events.Mostly local, some national.I did not suggest that it doesn’t matter what the nature or kind or degree of influence this blog has.In your # 35 post you asked me if I thought the blog’s influence is political.I said it doesn’t matter to categorize it’s influence as political because of the wide range of subject matter this blog addresses.Whatever the nature or kind or degree of influence depends on the subject matter beign discussed.