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[Note: I have addressed this letter to only the Democratic majority on the Irvine City Council because residents of Irvine have expressed to the opinion to me that, while they might be “maybes” with respect to the requests expressed below, the Republicans on the City Council are automatic and firm “nays.” If anyone knows to the contrary, please feel free to let me know and I’ll revise future letters accordingly.
If anyone wants to ensure that the recipients see this as soon as possible, you may of course send them this link. All three are, I believe, on Facebook; some readers here may have more efficient means of reaching them.]
Dear Mayor Kang, Mayor Pro-Tem Krom, and Councilmember Agran,
I am on the Civic Liaison committee of the Occupy Irvine demonstrators who have maintained a continuous presence outside of City Hall since the early morning of Saturday, Oct. 15. I write in the hope of beginning a conversation with you. Please feel welcome to forward this to Councilmembers Choi and Lalloway as you see fit.
I have met you all individually a couple of times or more, but I am not sure what you know about me. I am a member of (but of course do not speak for) the Executive Board of the Democratic Party of Orange County and often attend Democratic Party events; some of you may know me from those, as well as from my role as an Orange County Co-coordinator for the Brown for Governor campaign last autumn. I am an attorney (solo practitioner) located in Brea, CA, although I’ve spent the brunt of the past 2-1/2 years working in Irvine and Newport Beach. I have been watching the “Occupy Wall Street” movement with increasing fascination and hope since Sept. 17. Last week, I sought to become involved in planning and administration for Occupy Irvine.
So far, as you probably know, the demonstration on and adjacent to the lawn outside of the City Center complex at Alton and Harvard has been entirely peaceful and law-abiding. That it would be so was not a foregone conclusion. Before I became significantly involved in the events last Thursday, the expectation was that people would engage in civil disobedience on Saturday night. That was, I believe, the intent even as late as 6:00 Saturday, at which time after consulting with the I.P.D.’s Special Events Sergeant, I reported to the assembly that the police were demanding that the lawn be vacated by 10 p.m., but that the Sergeant and I agreed that the Irvine Municipal Code did not clearly bar people from sleeping on the city sidewalks at night so long as they did not block the ability of others to exercise their ability pass them on the right-of-way. With that understanding, protesters vacated the “park” with the intention of sleeping single-file on the sidewalk adjacent to the lawn, leaving an ample width of the sidewalk unobstructed for passers-by — only to be informed after having evacuated that they would not be allowed to sleep on the sidewalk pursuant to IMC Section 4-14-105. I describe the relevant events in my letter to the Special Events Sergeant (who I am deliberately not naming here as a courtesy), which may be found at these links (among others at the same website):
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2011/10/occupy-irvine-state-of-play-sat-oct-15/
As a result, demonstrators have been denied the ability to sleep at night while in the vicinity — blunting the very point of the protest over people being driven out of their homes due to foreclosures and apartments due to unemployment. They stand up all night often with lighted candles, holding vigil outside the location of their tent city. They see that people in other cities are not giving way (as in San Diego), or are allowed to move to the sidewalk overnight to sleep (as in Long Beach), or are allowed to stay where they are (as in Los Angeles), and are asking me with increasing frustration why Irvine’s enforcement of the law is the most draconian.
I have been using my influence, to the best extent of my ability, to try to convince demonstrators to continue to obey the law. My belief is that my influence on them is waning. Our ability to sleep on the lawn is a matter that you may want to address in due course. Our ability to sleep on the sidewalk without obstructing it is a matter that I think you should take up immediately.
As I indicate in the letter in the second link above, the argument for why people cannot sleep on the sidewalk at night is absurd, depending on the notion that sidewalks have “lanes” just like Alton Parkway and that obstructing any of the lanes, even between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., which are bereft of pedestrian traffic, is like parking a car illegally in one lane of Alton Parkway and expecting it to be tolerated. This is not only absurd, but suggests that the purpose of enforcing this law so vigorously is to break the spirit of the demonstrators, to hamper our ability to engage in free speech, free assembly, and petition of grievances.
I submit to you that you would be wisest to emulate the decision of the city council of Los Angeles to allow an encampment. As a stopgap measure you would be wise to emulate the decision of Long Beach and to allow people to sleep on the streets. This law is unconstitutional in its application (which I realize is motivated overall by antipathy for the presence of the homeless in your planned city.) The members of this movement are not without influence, connections, and access to legal support. If forced to challenge this law, the intention of the plaintiffs would obviously be to invalidate 4-14-105 to the greatest possible extent, aside from whatever other relief might be sought. If homeless people then come to realize that Irvine is now open resting ground for them, that is for you to address in the future; we simply want the law to be constitutional and constitutionally applied.
I urge you to use your influence to direct the Irvine Police Department to abandon this indefensible and repressive interpretation of Sec. 4-14-105 and to allow people to sleep on the sidewalk outside the putative “park” at Alton and Harvard — beginning tonight. I regret getting this request to you so late in the day, but — like others who have been forced to stand outside all night if they want to vindicate their right to protest — the deprivation of my own ability to sleep has, as planned, taken its toll. (Happily, Occupy Irvine has been working on a system to make the occupation easier, which may help the number of overnight demonstrators continue to grow.)
The Police Department has my contact information should any of you wish to contact me individually, as do many of your associates. I am making this available as an open letter because I want the people of Occupy Irvine to understand that I am trying to work with you towards a civil and mutually agreeable resolution to this conflict — if they have not already committed themselves to, as individuals, challenging what they believe to be a wrongful exercise of police and regulatory power.
A final note: neither the people taking part in Occupy Irvine nor the group itself are currently among my clients; I write to you only in my capacity as a member of the Civil Liaison committee. I am personally motivated to write, however, by my respect for and faith in each of you, which leads to my hope that you will make the best and most responsible decision both for Irvine and for the demonstrators.) You may feel free to contact me day or night about this matter — recognizing that, if I am unnecessarily forced to stand upright for much of the night without rest as a condition of participating in the event, a reply may be delayed.
Gregory A. Diamond, Esq.
Note: where Occupy Irvine is concerned, I’ve begun to use OJB as my own personal version of Twitter. (As you can tell, I’m not much on 140-character limits.) I think that this material is of general interest, at least to those who don’t want to see the demonstration dry up and blow away, but if you’re not interested these posts are easy to skip, and of course there is some other good stuff up there today!)
It’s all good. This blog is practically the hub of the Occupy OC movement now. And we even handily have Geoff Willis here to give us the corporatist arguments against the movement so we can practice knocking ’em down!
And how do I fit in?
Hey you, I’m mad at you. Stop talkin shit about me on Art’s blog. And stop going crazy every time it takes a few minutes for one of your comments to go up. Or we won’t be friends any more.
Remember, that I am in rehab so do not play me like violins.
However, I believe that my photoshops are valuable artworks at least as valuable as any Andy Warhol crapola.
“Hey you, I’m mad at you”…….. Hmmmm
Good title for a song!
“repressive interpretation of Sec. 4-14-105″……….. Hmmmm
If that is true it would be actionable.
My advise, If you want attention you should bring out signs to rectal the council and attack anyone in power who has anything to lose in the next November election.
You are too soft with this Civic Liaison committee bull-crap.
You have no leverage.
I should add that there is a court decision re Santa Ana sleeping on the street. Look it up and get the TRO against IPD use ACLU or willing unions to finance it. It should cost only the filing fee.
Start here: http://articles.latimes.com/1993-10-30/local/me-51378_1_santa-ana
Look it up if it was used in any other case.
Any way get copy of the case there may be good references for constructing of the TRO.
Stanley Fiala wrote:
> Start here: http://articles.latimes.com/1993-10-30/local/me-51378_1_santa-ana
> Look it up if it was used in any other case.
> Any way get copy of the case there may be good
> references for constructing of the TRO.
I’m not certain about the anti-lodging law, but the California Supreme Court did uphold the constitutionality of the Santa Ana ordinance banning “unlawful camping” on public property.
See their ruling at the following link:
Tobe v. City of Santa Ana
http://law.justia.com/cases/california/cal4th/9/1069.html
There are more case re homelessness
http://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/crimreport/casesummaries_1b.html
The SA case is somehow unclear if SA camping is not unenforceable.
We’re aware of the Tobe case.
Would you like to be included in discussions among attorneys working on Occupy Irvine issues? Let me know.
The above was intended to Duane, not to Stanislavski.
* sigh of relief *
I too!
I would hate you see you to prevail on the issue of the City Ordinance.
So use the above legal fables may be they will put the council to sleep while you are engaging in a mischief in the park.
Greg Diamond wrote:
> We’re aware of the Tobe case.
>
> Would you like to be included in discussions among attorneys
> working on Occupy Irvine issues? Let me know.
Sorry for not getting back with you sooner, but I was away from a computer keyboard all day yesterday.
As you know Greg, I’m not a lawyer. But I do have extensive experience organizing or helping organize demonstrations, protests, pickets, and marches ranging in size from 7 to 700 people,
Depending on my schedule, I can perhaps offer useful advice now and then on how to deal with the police and city bureaucrats. That’s why I posted responses to some of the messages you posted here.
The best way to contact me is via email. But I’m willing to chat by telephone or in person if that option is available. Vern has permission to release my contact info to you. Best bet is to email me first.
Greg Diamond wrote:
> Note: I have addressed this letter to only the Democratic majority on the Irvine
> City Council because residents of Irvine have expressed to the opinion to me
> that, while they might be “maybes” with respect to the requests expressed
> below, the Republicans on the City Council are automatic and firm “nays.”
> If anyone knows to the contrary, please feel free to let me know and I’ll revise
> future letters accordingly.
When sending correspondence to the Irvine City Council, you should address everybody. So what if the Republicans serving on that body might be firm “nays”? Aren’t they elected public officials? Don’t let these folks off the hook.
By not talking to Republicans, you give the opponents of Occupy OC the upper hand. All they will be hearing is their negative comments. If these Republicans receive more feedback expressing positive support, they might be reluctant to attack this movement.
For example, Republican Councilman Dr. Choi ought to be sympathetic to over-the-top protest, as he famously wandered about outside the 2007 Truman Dinner wearing a photoshop of Nancy Pelosi as Stalin on his back.
Seriously I do agree it should have been sent to Choi and Lalloway as well. I guess I should have mentioned that earlier.
The reason I didn’t include them this time is that to an extent I was speaking to the three of them directly, all of whom I do know (Krom a bit more than the others due to her CA-48 campaign) and respect. Sentences like “I know you and respect you — except for you two, Choi and Lalloway” seemed likely to be infelicitous. But I take your point.
Greg Diamond wrote:
> The reason I didn’t include them this time is that to an extent I was
> speaking to the three of them directly, all of whom I do know (Krom
> a bit more than the others due to her CA-48 campaign) and respect.
There’s nothing wrong with using what clout you may have with certain members of the Irvine City Council to influence their views. I just wanted to point out it sometimes can be useful to communicate with politicians who are not perceived to be wholly sympathetic to your cause.
All too often I’ve seen people create the conditions for a self-fulfilling prophecy: They don’t contact a politician because they believe he or she will be unresponsive to their issues; hence, the politician remains unresponsive to their issues because nobody brings it to their attention.
Perhaps a second letter, without the personal touches, directed to the whole Council. And a little, “as I have mentioned to several of you” or something
Maybe, I as an attorney in propria persona should draft the letter.
The letter above is to long and lacking substantial legal threat.
Any letter from an attorney containing more than one paragraph is a joke.
You forgot to cc “The Emporer” Donald Bren on this letter.
Slip a few Benjamins in the letter if you want a response from Boss Agran and Emporer Bren. Believe me, I live in MasterPlannedistan and know all too well how this illusionary well coifed, beige paradise operates. “Mayor” Kang isn’t going to be much help since most of us denizens (with the exception of the Northwood Night Stalker who writes for that “other” political blog and acts as a human tail for Boss Agran) all know that Boss Agran always gets what he wants. The rest of the so called “Democratic” majority are merely the equivalent of bobbleheaded dolls. Boss Agran yanks their strings and they all nod yes.
Don’t believe me? Ask Vern’s buddy Moxley at the OC Weekly.
I agree. The Democrats aren’t to be trusted.
I agree too and I’m a Democrat. Don’t trust us. But don’t reject us out of hand either. Make us prove our support.
Learning to appeal to OWS is part of reforming the party from within. You think I’m giving up that chance? Not easily, brother. This is a chance to teach our less conservative party that there is success to be had from standing with the likes of OWS. That’s huge.
Less conservative party? You’re kidding, right? Try convincing your spineless state party to endorse legalizing cannabis while you are at it and the next thing you know, you’ll have Drug Warriors in your own party like “Aspergillus” Alexandra Datig (ask Vern about her Oscar winning performance last summer at a county convention) telling a sob story at your next county convention on how growing pot in your own home will lead to a huge mold epidemic statewide and how incidents of rapes will increase.
If anything, the Occupy movement should call for an end to the duopoly. Not kiss up to people that aren’t going to give a damn unless you hand them a suitcase of cold, hard cash for their re-election campaign.
“Democrats” and “Republicans” need to be held equally accountable everywhere for their anti-social money machine politics. That is one of the major goals of the “Occupy Movement”, to bring public attention to the sameness of those two groups. I bet the Dem and Repub council people are all paying attention and equally hoping that this will all blow away.
[“Democrats” and “Republicans” need to be held equally accountable everywhere for their anti-social money machine politics.]……… Hmmmmm
If that is true, which I believe it is, there is political vacuum forming and independents, none of the above and non voting majority may see this as an opportunity to seize the power.
Historically, the biggest losers are the liberals because they do not see the truth and facts only their illusions of goodness which allows for self destruction.
Soon, the movement, if it will survive, will crystallize into a ultra left and right but both will gang-up on the small ethnic group called 1%. See GW’s list http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-24-supporters-have-34720500000-net-worth/ and than the right will eat the left.
It is already happening and because the liberal media do not see the truth it is largely unreported. Only KFI’s Bill Carroll devoted an hour on this subject.
The Occupy LA got support from the teachers union today. There was teacher union occupier on Carroll’s show, you should hear what she said. (déjà vu from early 20’s century)
Everything is falling into a place as I have predicted years ago so watch it happen.
So is this “the spiral of life” that the Lakota and Ojibwa elders were talking about?
“So is this “the spiral of life” that the Lakota and Ojibwa elders were talking about?”…….. Hmmmm
Yes, the déjà vu is a time snapshot of “the spiral of life”.
Do not forget Hopi prophecies GF
“There was teacher union occupier on Carroll’s show, you should hear what she said. (déjà vu from early 20′s century)”……. Update.
She got fired! (the constitution is dead)
You can be teacher and commit any crime and you won’t get fired because the union will protect you.
However, you will criticize Jews and you will get fired on the spot.
It will be interesting to see when the safety valve will actually blow up and people will no longer put up with this antisemitism crapola.
I think that Dems and Repubs need to be held equitably accountable for their anti-social money machine politics. Dems has done both bad and good in this respect. What good have contemporary Republicans done, from the Supreme Court on down?
I’m laughing so loud. There’s just a total contradiction between the concept of “occupy Wall Street,” which ostensibly motivated the Occupy Irvine demonstration, and talking to Democrat Party or Republic Party officials. If you are “asking” anything from either party, what’s the point? If’ your attitude toward to ruling Corporate Wall Street Party (Democrats + Republicans) isn’t “Get the Fuck Out of My Way,” you’re wasting everybody’s time.
Hi John! Our legal expert / city liaison guy is behaving the way a legal expert / city liaison guy should behave.
Meanwhile we could use spirit like yours out on the front lines.
You want to talk “legalese” with law breakers? Come on, you’ve got to be kidding. You won’t win anything like that. I don’t know of any revolution that’s been won that way and if it’s not revolution you want, then what’s the point at this stage in the game? Negotiating with the evil doers is a spirit crusher.
In any case, it’s only stage one.
I can always count on a dead on, brutally honest commentary from John Earl. He’s absolutely right. Asking Boss Agran and his marionettes to work with you without some form of gratuity to the Boss himself and Emperor Bren is a total waste of time. Kang is only the Mayor in name only. How would I know? Uh, I live in MasterPlannedistan
Always remember the first rule in MasterPlannedistan. What Boss Agran wants, Boss Agran gets. It’s kind of like “Fight Club” but with a 1,000 shades of beige and palm trees.
That’s funny, you don’t seem like you’re laughing.
No, it doesn’t contradict the concept of “Occupy Wall Street,” which at its early stages was generally a peaceful and lawful demonstration. One lesson that I think people are learning is that OWS has to be adapted to its environment. This is OWS for coastal OC. It’s polite and cooperative while being adamant and stubborn. Maybe it won’t work; more fierce approaches are always possible. But it feels right to the people there. The spirit is magical and we believe that we are making progress. It’s been half a week so far and the solidarity and determination are amazing. We’re doing something right.
As for the Democratic Party, of which I’m a member, my feeling is that it has to earn the trust and respect of the movement and I hope it will. That’s one reason that I’ve been there every night.
It’s a sardonic laugh. I got the idea from watching OWS that it wasn’t at all about kissing up to Democrats. In fact, it’s a big warning to Obama that his goose is cooked with maybe some hope that the extremely unlikely will happen: that he will actually do something substantive. So, the “occupiers” have to decide at some point it they’re going to try to use their demonstrations to persuade Obama and the Democrats, which in the larger and most important sense is utterly futile and will throw away everything they have started, or if they want it to grow into something real. If it’s not the latter, people are going to get tired real fast.
Who in OWN is “kissing up to Democrats”? Some Democrats have offered their support. Noting this — and I think it’s a welcome development — is not “kissing up.” The Democratic Party is among the institutions that I think that OWS wants to transform.
“As for the Democratic Party, of which I’m a member, my feeling is that it has to earn the trust and respect of the movement and I hope it will.”
I know Democrats that also support ending the War on Drugs, but the geriatric powers that be/AARP eligible members in the state party (Brown, Boxer, Feinstein) don’t seem to want to listen. Like John said, if you want a real revolution you have to quit hanging around the fort.
Or was it Dennis Banks that said that? Either way, both men are right.
Historically, only hunger, misery and hate are motivating factors to raise a level of the adrenalin which is necessary element to become aggressive and fight the state.
The people in OC have good life, the lumpenproletariat masses are non existent and Vern’s dream that he will become Che de novo is childish.
As shown above Esq. Encino can’t even write an inspiring liberal manifesto.
But do not be discouraged because the above revolutionary elements are cumming thanks to Obama, Brown and cronies trojka.
I’m in there trying to change the party on issues including the War on Drugs. You’re doing … what? Harnessing the awesome power of contempt and irascibility?
I think that people throw around the concept of “revolution” too easily. We’re seeing real change; we don’t need to carp “yah but it’s not a revolution yet.”
You’re trying to change the Democratic party’s mind on the War on Drugs? Where is that resolution in their platform?. Oh, I see…IT DOESN’T EXIST!!!!! Or is there some super duty, top secret Nixonian plan to support a end to the War on Drugs like there is to support the Occupy movement? I see a resolution to end the War on Drugs on the platforms of the Peace and Freedom, Libertarian and Green Parties (all three have been in their platforms since their founding). But the jackasses platform? Nope!. Instead, you have loony tunes like Aspergillus Alexandra Datig in your party trying to further the cause of prohibition because she is in recovery from chemical dependency and she happens to think that everyone should be in recovery because she is.
I heard the same crap from Nick Anas and the OCYD. When we asked them to help out with the Yes on 19 campaign, what did they do? They cut and run. In fact, I can count the number of Orange County Democrats that were committed to helping that campaign on one hand. Vern, Carl, John Grace and that bald doctor that is advocating for single payer health care (nice guy, don’t remember his name).
Since you want to engage in a pissing match about who’s doing what, I have a question for you., Where were you when we were soliciting help in 2010? Or are you like that worthless wast of humanity Ken Arnold who decided to criticze our campaign rather than offer to help and make things better?, By the way, we got more votes than ol’ Kenny did in his contest against Congress’ biggest closet stoner. (I know, His staffers have the 411 on real good product).
Listen to guys like John and.Duane. Hanging around the fort is going to get you nowhere. Unless you like feeling jilted all of the time.
YO G F
1. If you remember last year, thanks to Democrats like me and Diamond, Carl, John Grace, DR. BILL (is the name you’re trying to remember), Gus Ayer, Melissa Fox’ hubby Mike, and the Young Dems, the DPOC DID endorse Prop 19.
2. And the “fort” we’re “hanging around” most of the time, is not Dem Central but the OCCUPY IRVINE fort on the corner of Alton and Harvard. When the hell are you going to swing by and see what’s happening? Don’t be like Dan Chmelewski, dude…
John Earl wrote:
> I’m laughing so loud. There’s just a total contradiction between the
> concept of “occupy Wall Street,” which ostensibly motivated the Occupy
> Irvine demonstration, and talking to Democrat Party or Republic Party
> officials. If you are “asking” anything from either party, what’s the point?
> If’ your attitude toward to ruling Corporate Wall Street Party
> (Democrats + Republicans) isn’t “Get the Fuck Out of My Way,”
> you’re wasting everybody’s time.
Before anybody occupying the Irvine Civic Center can tell the Democrats and Republicans on the council to “go to hell,” they need a much bigger army of people standing along with them. Although I suspect 1,000 people attended the Occupy Orange County demo last Saturday, a much smaller number appear to be “camping” out each night.
Right now, it appears to me that they could be easily tossed out of the Civic Center by Irvine Police. Part of the reason why they haven’t been so far is because: 1) the politicians are divided by this movement and think they can harness its energy for electoralism; 2) there are some unknown political risks of pushing them out through violent means.
It’s easy for me to blast the people at the Civic Center for not being “radical” enough. But I happen to be sitting many miles away from them typing my thoughts on a computer keyboard. I won’t be the one facing the prospects of being pepper-sprayed, beaten, handcuffed, and then hauled off to the Orange County jail if I make the “wrong” decision.
This is how to do an occupation – chicken-hawks.
Central Athens erupted in protests Wednesday, paralyzing the city ahead of Thursday’s crucial Parliamentary vote that is to approve yet another round of wage and pension cuts that Greek workers say threatens their livelihood.
Members of the communist union, Pame, led the protests. They carried red flags as they marched in front of the parliament building in Syntagma Square, chanting protests against the beleaguered government of prime minister George Papandreou.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-news/massive-greece-strike-turns-violent/article2206047/
Advice from someone who wants to see Occupy Irvine snuffed cannot be taken seriously. We’re doing this our way — a way that fits within Orange County (which, if you’ve noticed, ain’t Greece.) It may disappoint you that we’re attentive to where we are and who we’re trying to reach, but you’ll get used to it.