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They’d have you believe California businesses are leaving by the hundreds, by the thousands, taking great jobs with them. They’d have you believe that our crippling taxes and regulations are the cause of this, and that these businesses are leaving for the parched deserts and lunkheaded workforces of Texas and Arizona, because those states’ “business climates” are so much better. And they want to be SURE you believe that this is the reason you or your cousin are having such a hard time finding a job.
- One small business departing California.
The Register will be sure to interview him.
And who is “they?” The same people who tell you that cutting taxes further for the very wealthy will trickle down to you, who tell you that climate change is a myth invented by scurrilous liberals, who tell you that second-hand smoke can’t hurt you, that Obamacare will pull the plug on your granny, and that corporations can best regulate themselves if they’re just left alone. You know, the people who will lie in your face to steal your last dime, and their useful, true-believing tools. I’m not being clear? Our insatiable corporate overlords and Republican politicians, who dream of NO taxes and NO regulations.
Just last week here, Brother Larry put up a version of the story, called “Top 10 Reasons Companies Are Leaving California,” which he took from a group called Americans For Prosperity (AFP.) Hey, I remember that group! They’re the Astroturf group founded by oil billionaire David Koch, that does exactly all the things I mentioned above! (And it’s comical how they come up with “ten reasons” – after the obligatory taxes and regulations, they bring up such gripes as “harsh treatment,” “unfriendliness,” “misery index [?]” and finally even “worst state to do business.”)
As Cruickshank wrote the other day, the story is “bullshit, lacking any basis in evidence whatsoever… If our political culture prized truth and accuracy it would have been dead and buried a long time ago.” So, what are the facts?
Last week, our beloved re-elected Treasurer Bill Lockyer co-wrote an invaluable column in the LA Times with economist Stephen Levy, blasting this myth and some others. They point out that “companies build new facilities, and move or close other facilities, all the time. If you compile anecdotes and look only at the folks who leave, it is easy to buy the ‘business is fleeing’ mantra. But the Public Policy Institute of California reports that from 1992 to 2006, business relocations to other states accounted for just 1.7% of California’s job losses. Nationally, an average of about 2% of job loss in states was due to businesses moving out.”
They evenhandedly break it all down: California has lost a lot of manufacturing jobs, but so have many other states, some even more than California – and they are mainly lost to other countries, not other states. The main cause of our unemployment is the bleak state of our construction industry. On the other hand, our film industry has been growing despite propaganda to the contrary, and most notably in the realm of venture capital investment we “continue to tower above all other states,” meaning that “venture capitalists believe California is still the best place in the nation to find innovative entrepreneurs and productive workers.”
Cruickshank shot back at skeptics in Calitics comments: “There’s been a ton of business expansion in CA over the last 10 years, including Siemens, who makes all of its urban passenger rail vehicles for the Western Hemisphere in Sacramento – and plans to expand to build high speed rail traincars if they get that contract. Alstom set up a traincar refurbishing plant on Mare Island recently. In Fremont, Solyndra has significantly expanded its operations in solar energy, including putting up a new building. Tesla has set up shop at the old NUMMI plant. There are plenty of similar examples…”
Well? Um… but don’t we have the problem of not being “business-friendly?” Ah, that’s nonsense. Like Ezra Klein wrote last year, “Whether we’re friendly to business or not, businesses are certainly friendly to California, and the proof is that the most important industries of the past few years made their home in the Golden State.” Our “high taxes” are greatly exaggerated: The average American pays 11.23% of their income in state and local taxes; the average Californian pays 11.73%.
Then there are the supposedly burdensome “regulations” which are actually a point of pride to us Californians, as we showed last Nov. 2 when we overwhelmingly defended AB 32 by defeating Prop 23. The regulations California has are the envy of the nation and what make our state great. And when these whiners go on about too much regulation, listen if they can name off a single one they’d admit to wanting to do away with. They won’t. They can’t.
Finally, even for businesses who would prefer a little less taxes, a little less regulations, there are still overwhelming attractions drawing them to California, keeping them in California: our climate, our infrastructure, and our well-educated workforce (although we are beginning to endanger the last two with our budget cuts.) A commenter in Texas says:
California has 7.5 times more biotech companies than Texas. I know that for job opportunities in this area, that I plan to go into next year, I am better off leaving Texas. Cutting taxes and relaxing regulations can only go so far when schools are being cut and the state government, especially the school board, is stacked with fundamentalists!
SO…
Wow, excellent post, Vern.
It’d be interesting to see some specifics on the types of businesses or industries that would be hiring if their taxes & regulations were cut.
Mortgage bankers could offer adjustable liar loans and would need more brokers, etc.?
Larry M.
Check out the following link:
http://thebusinessrelocationcoach.blogspot.com/2010/07/calif-business-exodus-explodes-in-1st_15.html
Here’s the beginning text of the report:
Thursday, July 15, 2010 Calif. Business Exodus ‘Explodes’ in 1st Half –
Total Higher than Entire Previous Year
July 20 News Flash – The total number of California disinvestment events now increases to 85 as Solexant, a San Jose-based company, will build a manufacturing plant in Oregon. So it’s another “green” company diverting its capital out of California. The new facility will have an initial work force of 170 employees, but could increase to 1,000. See the Gresham Outlook story “Solar company chooses Gresham.” Solexant describes itself as a “well funded start-up” at their website here.
In just two days in July, California lost three company headquarters – Globalstar, Inc. will depart Milpitas for Louisiana, eEye of Irvine will move to Arizona, and TriZetto Group will leave Newport Beach for Colorado – which means this year we are seeing a stunning increase in company disinvestments in California.
In just the first half of this year, there have been 85 such events, much higher than what occurred through all of 2009. An “event” includes instances where companies have closed factories down, moved their headquarters or facilities to another state or country, or targeted locations elsewhere as better places to grow and therefore sent billions of dollars in capital out of state or out of the country.
Using research methods that involve public domain information only, the 85 known events for the year’s first half compare with 51 for all of last year and 43 events combined for the three-year 2006 – 2008 period.
About $4.7 billion in capital was spent or committed during the first half of this year for known activities related to out-of-state moves or shifts in investment. If I had time to search SEC disclosures and other documents, the figure would be higher. Prior to giving company details, I will take some editorial prerogatives.
California’s ‘State of Emergency’
The exodus of known capital and jobs is the “tip of the Iceberg.” The losses are deeper than are recorded here. California is in an “economic state of emergency” that will only get worse because the state government shows no signs of being less hostile to business and because more companies will be leaving. To the degree I know about some of those companies, under Non-Disclosure Agreements there is no way I can discuss them. In any event, the exodus has reached such an alarming point that California ought to declare a “state of economic emergency” just as we have emergencies resulting from floods, fires and earthquakes. Raising taxes or creating new regulations should be out of the question. Unless there is a reduction in the hostility California directs toward businesses, we will see more commercial enterprises calling site selection companies for help in finding friendlier states in which to locate.
Business leaders who want to keep operations in California must speak up more forcefully against hostile voices in Sacramento – and against business-bashers in Los Angeles City Hall – and make a stronger case for the value that commercial enterprises contribute to this state.
Who’s on the List?
Companies of all types are reducing their California footprint. The list includes well-known California-based firms like Google, Hilton, Thomas Brothers Maps, Genentech, Yelp, Apple, Facebook, and DIRECTV. Meanwhile, lesser-known family-owned companies are leaving the state completely, but they prefer to stay out of the limelight and their moves are difficult to track.
FIrst, there are 2.77 million businesses in California. http://www.manta.com/mb_41_ALL_05/california I compute 85 out of that number, is about 1 job leaving out of 32,600-something.
IF this story is reliable, then the contrast between 85 in half a year vs. 51 in the previous year is a change from tiny to small. An interesting rise, that should maybe be analyzed by a serious, objective person.
But this fellow forfeits being taken seriously with his apocalyptic language – these 85 businesses leaving over half a year is a STATE OF EMERGENCY comparable to floods, fires and earthquakes. This Vranich character is trying hard to sell us something. He is jumping up and down telling us we’ve gotta be more “Business-friendly” which means only two things – cut corporate taxes even more in the midst of a revenue famine, and can all sorts of regulations although of course he’ll never say which.
Another thing he doesn’t mention: Companies starting up here, or moving here from elsewhere. You wanna make a bet those go a long way to balancing off these small losses?
Brother Vern.
Without engaging in any last minute research of those companies who bailed vs the new companies moving here let’s agree on a few basic facts.
It is not easy for a large company to simply say I am out of here if they own property used for their manufacturing.
One of our largest customers was HP where we did business in their Cupertino, Palo Alto, Rohnert Park, Santa Rosa and Roseville, CA locations.
How many of their 100,000 employees were outsourced by Carly F.
Another customer for us was Intel. They changed their plans on a new manufacturing plant and chose New Mexico over the originally desired northern CA location.
How many of those 2.77 million companies you reference have more that a dozen employees?
We can each get caught up in the numbers game. Moving by larger firms is a major event that has serious consequences including the transfer/moving of key employees, layoff’s, hiring and training of replacement staff in the new location, keeping product flowing on time and on and on.
I was very involved in a corporate acquisition that included moving manufacturing and engineering between two states while the transition had to be seamless.
Trust me when I say that moving out of state is easier said than done for medium to larger firms.
You are delusional Vern!
Within the last year; I have lost MANY friends to Chicago, boston, Az, Texas and other states: All with the same stories: Their company moved out of state or they wanted to start a business else where! You see there is little profit to make in California and companies are sick and tired of the regulations and ever increasing costs by insurance companies and tax liabilities. What you make either goes to paying for insurance or the government entitlement programs!
Besides the schools suck; well, the over paid teachers suck; and the neighborhoods are looking more like TJ each day!
Sure you have. But please humor us with some specifics — feel free to change the names.
Watch out for throwing the red state hell of Texas in the mix, by the way. You’d be surprised at the fees thrown at the population and businesses — but what the hell, it’s all a matter of perception, right? Like for those who think Fox broadcasting is not a propaganda tool for the Republicans.
Rapscalion!
I have been too Texas and compared to California, Texas is heaven!
You don’t need to watch Fox News if you think it is propaganda, you can see the same news all over the internet from bloggers and respected news site’s!
NPR, CNN, CBS.. Unlike half of the informed nation, keep watching!
But, for comparison sake; look at the quality of the news and news anchors on your sooooo hated Fox compared to the lame brains on CNN, CBS and NPR!
I tend to watch and listen to people who make sense! I suppose you watch and listen to people who share your beliefs!
Let me guess you are a public worker? Feel free to change the name of the at which you work! It matters not, there all crap!!
I have a feeling your one of those bright public school teachers!
p.s., look up Joseph Goebbels, who represented the precursor of Fox; rally up the rubes over a phoney boogeyman (jews then, now gays) and give them a furious nationalistic fervor. Trivialize intelellectuals and science. Then you’ve got some votes! You, for instance.
I notice you declined to provide the requested information, as it apparently exists in your head alone. Sort of like not seeing the massive tilt to the right on Fox, and to which they have admitted.
And if you think Texas is heaven, please, go live there. Let us know how the first humidity and mosquito ridden summer works for you.
Larry G & M Q,
Instead of crying over spilt milk it would be better to look toward the future. There are plenty of opportunities needing development. The link below shows how China & India will be eating our lunch if we pin our hopes on a return to our smoggy past.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/25/science/earth/25fossil.html?sq=solar power africa&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1293904803-PVeOK0W5j571dCcMMs7Nqw
Of course the big power companies and government want to keep us tethered to the grid and the past. California doesn’t have the cheap labor to manufacture solar panels but there will be a lot of jobs in design, sales, installation, service, training, etc. where a high skill level is needed.
larry M.
Hello! Do you truly believe I take pleasure in the job exodus from CA?
In my interview with CA Senate candidate Lucille Kring she pointed out the heavy start up cost for their small business in Anaheim and stated if she knew what was to follow they may have decided not to go forward due to all the county and city reg’s.
I have talked to several individuals that have compared the cost of doing business here vs other states, no less other nations. We are over the top.
On Monday our city council will hear from the OCFA Fire Marshall as he addresses another mandate for homeowners to install fire sprinklers in home additions as a mandate rather than an option.
Let’s discuss design. Our corporation played a key role in new product design in electronic systems. At our annual trade show and exhibitions we would find Asians with cameras taking photos of our latest products. Some of these products would show up later after being reverse engineered. While Asian manufacturers sales, marketing and engineers still attend these international events, they no longer bring their cameras as we have created joint ventures to tap into their low labor market. So the fact that we still have design capabilities in America does not mean that the final product can or will be produced stateside, no less in CA.
Installation. The one positive which you point out is installation. You cannot outsource that part of the product.
Training. I was very upset with the CEO of an IL firm who sold joint design rights to an Indian firm located in Bangalore. They sent a team of engineers from India to our design and manufactuirng centers in IL and Florida to watvch our process and pick our brains.
Service, another area that, for the most part, cannot be outsourced. An exception might be software related problems such as I have experienced with my computer and Internet providers. Their “call centers” have moved from India to the Phillipines.
Sales. With the exception of Christmas shopping via the Internet, that continues to increase, you do need to have a local presence to sell technical or complex products. That said it could be provided by local representatives or direct sales based on the ROI of that investment. For smaller accounts the manufacturer will send out regional direct staff that can be based anywhere in the world. While some representative sales offices may stock your product the majority take no inventory so their staffing levels are small. As such we are not talking about adding large new firms.
For 2010 Latin America saw a growth rate of 5 percent with country’s like Brazil having a 7.5 percent rate of growth and Argentina a 9 percent rate and even Mexico with all its drug cartel problems saw 5% growth. If this keeps up immigration will soon be running in the opposite direction, especially if every one sits around waiting for lower taxes and less regulations to create jobs – won’t happen as prices are set to maximize profits not employment. Companies only hire to support increased sales.
Larry M.
If companies focus on the bottom line, do you truly feel they will locate in CA where it cost more than in other States.
An old inducement flyer from the governor of OK has a headline which reads:
LOW BUSINESS COSTS-KEEPING BUSINESS STRONG.
It goes on listing a few bullet points.
Lowest office rental rates
Second lowest in the nation overall business cost
Ninth lowest total tax rate in the U.S.
Our competition in CA is with 49 other states, not just Mexico or Asian competitor nations
The socialist liberals in California don’t see the over all employment problems because they have yet to feel the pain. The largest block of socialist liberals are state, county and city employees.
Even tho there may be a small increase in private employment this year, that will be more than offset by the coming cuts in government employment.
California may have to have a few more prop 13’s, …. to set maximum wages and over all employment numbers for state and local governments.
This stuff about low level governments workers being paid more in wages and benefits than the President of the USA is BS.
Santa Ana city manager get 300 plus per year. And compare that to a similar size city on the east coast,
City of Pittsburg 311 thousand people 58 sq miles East Coast
P city Manager $87,393 1 / 87,393 per yr
City of Santa Ana 355 thousand people 27 sq miles West Coast
SA city Manager $294,304 1 / 294304
It is not unusual for local governments in California to pay 337 percent higher wages and benefits than comparable cities elsewhere in the USA.
There have been many societies that have failed in the distance and recent past. California is flirting with catastrophic failure.
Surely Mayor Pulido could cover this from the $500,000 “Finders Fee” he just received — oh, that’s right — he got caught and we haven’t heard a word about it since. But I’m sure the Grand Jury and Tony Rack will be jumping right on it.
Larry G,
Another plus for OK is it won’t get swamped when the oceans rise. I don’t think you’ve ever been to OK, but anyway, the low-cost route is not the way of the future any more than is electing different politicians. Automation can cancel the benefits of low wages – its the brains than create new products and uses for things that boost the economy. We should be more concerned about the number of PhD’s that China is cranking out.
Larry M. Forget OKLA. I am on your side but at the same time I am a realist.
Did you watch all the politicos in 2008 speak of bringing jobs back to the rust belt?
What a bogus feel good statement that for the most part can not be achieved.
Haven’t you watched all the TV ads with robotics in the auto industry yet where are they producing cars? Yes, my Toyota was assembed in Tenn. It contains a large % of imported parts from many countries. Detroit is basically a ghost town as it relates to auto production and jobs.
When discussing automation you are entering my hood. Also recognize with globalization we now deal with huge multinational corporations.
All high labor content in the US eventually was outsorced to stay competitive. Our industry made major investments in automation but not every segment is a good candidate. In some areas it did impact labor negotiations as it impacted jobs on the production line.
As to PhD’s that China is cranking out. It’s a number game.
You bet China and India are cranking out more engineers that the USA. For starters their nations population are each in excess of one billion people while we have around 300 million.
Numbers can be twisted especially if we do a true comparison of talent and curriculum.
One report shows 70,000 US engineering grad’s per year competing with 600,000 from China and 350,000 from India. Even if the Asian numbers are inflated they are surely larger than ours.
Second. As former publicity chair for the IEEE and our annual convention/trade shows I have met many of the brightest Chinese and Indian engineers in the world who are developing the next generation products. Where we have the edge is “creativity” that cannot be taught.
Hey Vern, how about posting a list of all those businesses you can find that have opened new stores, factories, offices in California? And if you’re so optimistic about all this, tell us why the _real_ unemployment rate in the state is at or above 20%?
Why don’t you especially concentrate on all those green businesses that are adding so many jobs to our burgeoning economy? And while you’re at it, take a look at this one http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/4228712 and figure out if they’re going to repay the $535 million Federal loan they took from us.
Dalton,
FYI;
‘Green’ growth is key to state, report shows
Eco-industry jobs are expanding faster than other areas, according to
January 26, 2009|Marla Dickerson LA Times
That’s the message of a report released today by Next 10, a nonprofit research group in Palo Alto, which says California’s experience underscores how the green sector is emerging as a key component of growth.
Among the findings: Green-collar jobs are growing faster than statewide employment. Clean-tech investment in the state hit a record last year, despite steep stock-market declines. California leads the nation in patent registrations for green technology. Efficiency measures pioneered here over the last three decades have created 1.5 million jobs and allowed California businesses to generate many more goods and services per unit of energy consumed than other states.
“California, like the rest of the nation and world, is caught in a financial perfect storm at the same time it has committed to dramatic reductions in global warming emissions,” said Doug Henton, co-founder of Collaborative Economics, a Silicon Valley firm that prepared the report for Next 10. “This [data] provides evidence that moving to cleaner and more efficient energy use must be part of the economic solution.”
The report contains the first detailed analysis of the number of “green” jobs in California. National estimates have varied widely. Working from a database of known firms, Collaborative Economics concluded that the Golden State had slightly more than 100,000 green jobs in 2007. That’s about as many as the biotech sector.
Those green jobs encompass a variety of occupations, including research scientists, wind-energy technicians and solar panel installers. Such positions are growing fast, the report showed. Green employment was up 10% between 2005 and 2007. Statewide job growth was 1% over the same period.
While the industry isn’t large enough to be the sole jobs engine that pulls California and the nation out of the ditch, investments in clean energy and efficiency will help spark growth, according to Noel Perry, a venture capitalist and founder of Next 10.
He said he’s certain because California has already proved it by adopting the toughest energy efficiency standards in the country. The result is that the state’s energy productivity — energy consumed compared with economic output — is 68% higher than that of the rest of the country, according to the report.
“If the rest of the country were as . . . productive as [California], America’s GDP would be significantly greater,” Perry said.
Perry said tough state mandates to boost California’s use of renewable energy and lower greenhouse gases are attracting entrepreneurs and funding.
Venture capital investment in clean technology in California totaled $3.3 billion in 2008, more than double the amount invested in 2007. Between 2002 and 2007, 607 green-technology patents were registered in California, the study said. That’s more than any other state.
Caution! Let’s not get caught up in the numbers game.
“Green employment went up 10% between 2005 and 2007”
So we had 5,000 employed in 2005 and now its 5,500? Give us the rest of the data
Caution! Let’s try and pretend we read the article.
“The report contains the first detailed analysis of the number of “green” jobs in California. National estimates have varied widely. Working from a database of known firms, Collaborative Economics concluded that the Golden State had slightly more than 100,000 green jobs in 2007. That’s about as many as the biotech sector.”
Thank you Anonster. We are always on the lookout for new source material.
On page 52 of their report covering statewide and regional employment between1995 and 2008 it provides the following table and text.
“Manufacturing Employment in CA. Green Economy grew from 28,084 to 33,381” or just over 5,000 new jobs. Yes, I was winging the numbers to prove a point which is borne out by their report.
Text on Page 54 states: “Also adding a significant number of green manufacturing jobs was the Orange County with approximately1,360 jobs, an increase of 54 percent. The largest green segment job gains in Orange County during the same period were in transportation (approximately 770 addional jobs). Orange County’s workforce more than tripled in transportation, Manufacturing & Industrial Support, Green Building, and Energy storage.
Notice the spin on the percentage increase.
Using their numbers, not mine, reflects our having total manufacturing employment of 2,252,521 in 1995 shrinking to 2,047,971 in 2008.”
Using their data and my basic calculator we have lost 204,550 manufacturing jobs in CA while adding 5,000 green jobs. Whenever the base number is small any increase will look great on paper as demonstrated by this firm whom I was not aware of until your comment.
Bottom line is that green jobs, as of their 2008 report, were only 1.5 percent of all manufacturing jobs in our state.
It would be of interest if the PPIC cranked out a similar analysis covering the growth of green employment in our state.
Anonster. Having been involved in the Federal ENERGY STAR Project Development way back in 2004 I actively participated in promoting energy efficiency green segment working with Federal staff in DC and COLO. promoting that effort with electronic manufacturers around the globe.
And while you’re considering my last post, consider the success of green environmental and job policy in Spain: http://dailycaller.com/2010/12/31/let-them-sip-latte-revolt-brewing-in-spain-over-green-energy-crisis/#ixzz19uQAfr00. These guys must be heroes to all you soclialists, so why is it you’re not touting their accomplishments?
Larry,
You need to look beyond your own “spin”, green jobs aren’t limited to manufacturing;
“Those green jobs encompass a variety of occupations, including research scientists, wind-energy technicians and solar panel installers. Such positions are growing fast, the report showed. Green employment was up 10% between 2005 and 2007. Statewide job growth was 1% over the same period.”
Anonster. Nice try but you don’t get to cross the finish line.
How can you expect us to make the same conclussion when based on your own source the manufacturing sector exceeds 2 million jobs while green jobs are less than 35,000.
While green jobs are experiencing some growth , funded by our tax dollars and stimulus funding from DC, comparing any percentage growth of unlike numbers is a distortion.
If you have ten bucks and can double it when Vern has a million and can double his money, who is in a better position to spend it and create other jobs?
By the way. Scientists are engineers and are probably included in the manufacturing employment numbers. The same applies for technicians who test the product before it ships. Nice try.
Larry,
You haven’t even mentioned the huge government subsidies the green industry has to have just to “compete” with other energy producers.
Happy New Year Newbie.
While I didn’t get into specifics I did mention stimulus funding in my prior comment
Larry,
First off, I don’t even get what you are trying to posit here, Dalton challenged Vern to post some numbers of companies (“especially concentrate on all those green businesses”) that were growing/hiring in Calif., I posted the article with the figures from Next 10. There HAS been GREEN JOB GROWTH in the state of California, but even the article I posted stated that;
“While the industry isn’t large enough to be the sole jobs engine that pulls California and the nation out of the ditch, investments in clean energy and efficiency will help spark growth, according to Noel Perry, a venture capitalist and founder of Next 10.”
I am not claiming that green job sector is or ever will be the largest employer in the state, but it is a growing industry and one that is creating jobs.
You on the other hand seem to be pulling facts out of your ass;
“So we had 5,000 employed in 2005 and now its 5,500?”
Green jobs aren’t just limited to manufacturing, I suggest you go to the link I provided at the end of the following article and look at the graph of green jobs, I think you will find that the number is somewhere around 250,000 jobs not 5,500.
First-ever Survey Tallies Green Jobs in California
April 27, 2010 | Posted by Erica Fick
California’s Employment Development Department (EDD) recently released a tally of green jobs in the state. The total? Nearly half a million workers spend at least half or part of their time on green products or services, according to the first-of-its-kind survey of 15,500 employers. The goal of the study was to establish baselines of green employment and green business practices in California.
Jobs considered green are those that are categorized using the GREEN model:
Generating and restoring renewable energy
Recycling existing materials
Energy efficient product manufacturing, distribution, construction, installation and maintenance
Education, compliance and awareness
Natural and sustainable product manufacturing
Top green employers are in recycling (25%), energy efficiency (24%) and sustainable product manufacturing (22%). Within these categories, manufacturing and construction industries have the most green jobs. This is a bright spot in sectors that have taken a hit during the recession.
Thanks to groundbreaking measures such as California’s landmark Global Warming Solutions Act, companies have been able to maintain and grow their green workforce during the recession, even in industries that have suffered nationally.
Southern California stands out as the regional green jobs leader. It accounts for nearly half of California’s total green employment, followed closely by the San Francisco Bay Area, which boasts more than 130,000 green jobs. The rest of California’s green jobs are spread throughout the state’s remaining seven regions. Although the type and number of green workers vary greatly by region, this latest study confirms that California has the largest green economy in the country.
http://blogs.edf.org/californiadream/2010/04/27/first-ever-survey-tallies-green-jobs-in-california/
*********
In Sacramento alone;
November 29, 2010
By Rick Daysog | The Sacramento Bee
Clean-tech companies in the Sacramento region now employ more workers than the local agricultural sector, underscoring the importance of the fledgling industry’s role to the area’s economy.
In a report released today, the Green Capital Alliance, which promotes local green industry, said Sacramento has led the state in clean-tech job growth during the past 13 years and now employs more than 13,000 workers.
By contrast, local farms and other agricultural companies employ about 12,800 people in Sacramento, El Dorado, Placer, Sutter, Yolo and Yuba counties, according to the Sacramento Area Commerce and Trade Organization (SACTO).
Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/11/29/104407/study-sacramento-leads-green-job.html#ixzz19zY3m19p
******************
Finally Larry, if you are trying to say that green jobs aren’t legit because of funding by our tax dollars, I’d like you to point to ANY major industry that HASN’T received government help either through tax breaks and subsidies, government funded R&D via public universities/NASA/military or as in the case of big oil, through OUR military’s protection of their interests.
Thanks for taking up the slack here while I’m working on other stories, anonster. Here’s the graph you’re talking about:
Industries With The Most Green Jobs In California (as of 4/2010)
Anonster my response was simply to your numbers. I have not followed the 34 comments on this post. You referenced a firm that produced a 72 page report on green jobs in CA. From that document I referred to their graph entitled MANUFACTURING EMPLOYMENT IN CA. that is found on page 52.
The numbers which I posted, other than the wing it 5,000 to 5,500 increase, were from their data, not my imagination.
As to government tax breaks and subsidized R & D we can spend a great deal of time tackling that issue. As stated earlier I was involved with representatives of our federal government in energy conservation years before president Obama was elected and “green” became a popular conservation term rather than a color.
While I limit posting my professional activities at times it is necessary to establish my credentials in responding to challenges.
In 1992, at a meeting in Oslo of Microprocessor Systems leaders, I was recommended to serve as Project Editor to represent the United States in a very key role relating to Microprocessor Systems. The letter I received from the US TAG Chair asking me to take on this challenge reads in part “I cannot emphasize enough that this is a very key role with a lot of visibility internationally.” It also states that “your voluntary involvement helps to insure that the US’s interests are adequately represented during the development of International Standards.”
Note: Those International Standards entailed energy conservation almost 20 years ago.
Larry,
Please provide a link to the numbers that you are referencing, Next 10 has published several different reports, none of which (that I can find ) have a page 54 with a manufacturing graph.
You also seem to be conflating ALL manufacturing growth with green manufacturing growth. Never have I posited that there was an overall jump in manufacturing job growth, just green job growth (not limited to manufacturing).
Anonster. http://www.next10.org Following contains the report as referenced
http://www.next10.org/environment/greenInnovation10.html
By the way, “green” is not so green. Solar and wind energy developers are the hydro-electric producers of our day. A typical solar field of 1,000 acres has 1,700,000 – 3,000,000 solar panels with a 10-15 year useful life while the projects have a 30-50 year life expectancy. I have not seen any plans for these fields that deal with the replacement and disposal of these millions of panels – especially important since many or all of the contain hazardous materials such as cadmium.
Nice job, Larry Gilbert. Let’s see what the Anonster has to say, if anything.
I own my own business and have an observation. I’ve peripherally watched the solar energy business for a number of years, and with my experience one gets a feel for the fads and the scams that periodically invade the regular business world. I’ve noticed at various green energy/eco events that within the past few years, of course, solar companies of all sorts have come out of the woodwork. I’ve noticed that when trying to do business with them, you hear a lot of crap and get a lot of promises like “I’ll get back to you” with that info — but while my regular business relationships and me have good ongoing communication, the solar people are never heard from — they disappear. Their phone numbers suddenly go dead. Their websites go away.
So, again anecdotally, my impression is that there are a lot of get-rich-quick types in this business — a lot of home solar installers that see a quick buck, who will then move onto the next fad (and God help your warranties). If this IS all about solar installers and all those jobs that are waiting to be filled to put panels on our roofs so we can fire Edison, we’re in trouble. How many homes in YOUR neighborhood have gone solar? How many big businesses are investing in it because there’s a real ROI? If we’re to believe it’s the next great bubble, like the internet in the ’90s, when’s it gonna start??
If all these jobs are out there, why does the State still officially have our unemployment rate at 12.4% AND HOLDING?
I had a friend – well, an acquaintance – who’d been doing solar in Seal Beach for several years; when I had some questions back in September about AB 32 and Prop 23, he wrote back:
Hi Vern,
We’re not in the solar business any more, but it’s definitely a growing business.
The problem is the unions and utilities hate solar, because it takes away their money and power.
I think I’ll see if I can get more details from him; on how unions and utilities sabotage it, and why he says it’s still a growing business.
Dalton,
Your impressions are probably right as most of the customers for solar powere aren’t in SC, but in less developed areas where 20% of the world’s population doesn’t have electricity. Certainly it won’t compete against the grid until economies of scale reduce cost and increase output, but for that 20% a couple of light bulbs beat the heck out of none.
As a business owner, what sort of tax cuts or reduced regulations would give you the incentive to hire?
“I think I’ll see if I can get more details from him; on how unions and utilities sabotage it,”
MQ says:
I can’t believe you are even wondering about this question!!!!!!!
I am tried! Does anyone want to explain to Vern why the unions and public workers hate the private sector?????
Hey low-comprehension: I said “how they sabotage it.”
I know! How do you think?
Ok here is a few thing’s that they do!
1. They have their workers harass private sector workers! Since the utilities are government and their workers are unionized! It makes it hard for private sector companies to set up (regulation’s/inspections) and for workers non-union to work within a high union state (a lot of harassment)!
Your friend will tell you the same! It really comes down to high cost and harassment!
Something we all know when dealing with any government agency and any union in this state especially!
Don’t trust my word for it! Ask any one you works in the private sector that will deal with union workers and public institutions! Ask your friend!
Any actual facts to suppoty your continuing hysteria?
I’ll wait till I hear from my friend. And utilities are not government, silly, they’re your divine “private enterprise” trying to make a profit.
Remember, I light up your life? Regulation is all about government!
Rapscalion, Union thugs was not a name bestowed by me! It is a well known fact!
OMG: This is why the post office, DMV… Is hell!
DOn’t talk shit about the post office, they do a great job. And the only reason the DMV is hell is because NOBODY wants to be there.
I went to the DMV without an appointment and, in 30 minutes, took an eye test and had my picture taken and was on my way. I mail in my registration renewal and it’s back in two weeks. The USPS gets a letter across the country in two days for 44 cents. From whose ass are you pulling your whiny complaints?
You don’t mail much do you Vern! The external works of the post office is less than stellar and the actual internal working’s: a disaster! It is the same with the DMV!
“The USPS gets a letter across the country in two days for 44 cents. From whose ass are you pulling your whiny complaints?”
MQ says:
Please all, take notice of people who can write, but will never make a dime!
Yeah, they send it across the country for 44cents and pay the guy to bring it across an ex sorbent amount!
All of the government programs are in the red because of mismanage cost vs payroll!
You call it whiny complaints! If the government would run more like a business and less like a Social Service; they would not be in the red!
You are so union!
Sure I mail, and I’ll vouch for the fact that probably 98-99% of the time, what I mail gets there quick, no problem. For the 30+ years of my adult life. I am very happy with the post office.
“Sure I mail, and I’ll vouch for the fact that probably 98-99% of the time, what I mail gets there quick, no problem. For the 30+ years of my adult life. I am very happy with the post office.”
MQ says:
“Please god help them for the know not what they do!
I think christ was talking about the liberals!
Fine, Quinn can send her letters by Western Union or Federal Express. It’s a free country!
I don’t want the goverment run like a “business” because ther profit motive ends up ruining the basic services that are provided. Like social security–you can just hear the lip licking of those who can;t wait to start taking chinks of it for personal gain instead of providing funds to retirees.
“I don’t want the government run like a “business” because their profit motive ends up ruining the basic services that are provided.”
MQ Says:
You have to be living in your moms house! Please forgive me but that is the stupidest statement I have ever heard! Seriously, no kidding!
To make a profit son your business needs to what the public needs and wants!
As a business the number one goal is to give: great service at the best possible price, while making a profit!
When you are government you have a constant flow of money. It is not matter if you loss the profit…So therefore there is no incentive for the top dogs to turn a profit! Throw in a union and it’s the DMV and the Post office!
The fact is the Post Office cost the taxpayers billion and so does the DMV! Privatize them both you have great service and less cost to the taxpayer!
As far as SS is concerned it will be BR in 10years!
Sorry, I was so taken back by your argument that I did not proofread!
🙁
Read on!
Vern and Rapscallion,
I found this very interesting and informative article on the USPS;
http://www.pressherald.com/opinion/myths-about-u_s_-postal-service-need-to-be-dispelled_2010-09-02.html
I personally have found the DMV to be extremely efficient, did you know you can go online and check for the shortest wait times at the various local DMV’s? For the huge number of people they serve every day and the wide variety of languages and problems they encounter and all the different services they provide, I think they do a tremendous job.
People like MQ can only parrot the crap they hear on right-wing radio or TV and no amount of factual information can change their minds, it is not really worth our time engaging these people in debate.
I think this guy nails it;
Gary Younge The Nation
How to be President in Fact-Free America
“The sad truth is that even when presented with concrete and irrefutable evidence, some people still prefer the reality they want over the one they actually live in. Herein lies one of the central problems of engaging with those on the American right. Cocooned in their own mediated ecosystem, many of them are almost unreachable through debate; the air is so fetid, reasonable discussion cannot breathe. You can’t win an argument without facts, and we live in a moment when whether you’re talking about climate change or WMD, facts seem to matter less and less.
I’m not referring to false consciousness here (insisting that people don’t know what’s best for them, which doesn’t seek to understand but to infantilize them) but instead the persistent, stubborn, willful refusal to acknowledge basic, known, verifiable facts and the desire to make misinformation the cornerstone of an agenda.”
http://www.gao.gov/docsearch/featured/2009_high_risk_list.pdf
Guess who is top of the list for needed construction? And you run a business??????????
Anonster, I get my information from everyday people, events, statistic’s, observation, figures and above all concrete proven facts!
You keep watching CNN, CBS for your information!
Examples of FACT-FREE, right-wing nuttiness;
“All of the government programs are in the red because of mismanage cost vs payroll!”
MQ
“The Postal Service is inefficient.” Consider this: Ten years ago, it took 70 employees one hour to sort 35,000 letters.
Today, in that same hour, two employees process the same volume of mail.
In addition, the number of addresses in the nation has grown by nearly 18 million in the past decade, but the number of employees who handle the increased delivery load has decreased by more than 200,000.
Contrary to these opposing trends, since 2002 the Postal Service has cut its costs by $43 billion, including by $6 billion in 2009. We do more with less.”
myths about USPS
And speaking of “cost vs payroll” mismanagement;
“It is very different to have a business where people except a paycheck every two weeks and you have not the funds because you just paid 15,000 to State fund and 10,000 for liability!”
MQ
********
“You call it whiny complaints! If the government would run more like a business and less like a Social Service; they would not be in the red!
To make a profit son your business needs to what the public needs and wants!”
MQ
“The USPS can’t compete with the private sector.” We can and do compete. Our closest competitors, UPS and FedEx, don’t threaten our business; as two of our biggest customers, they help build it.
They pay us to deliver more than 400 million of their ground packages every year in residential areas and on Saturdays.”
myths about USPS
*************
“As a business the number one goal is to give: great service at the best possible price, while making a profit!”
MQ
“While stamp prices have increased about 33 percent over the past 10 years, this increase is in line with inflation. comparison, private carriers raised their prices by as much as 60 percent between 1999 and 2009. The Postal Service is, and has always been, a bargain.”
myths about USPS
*****************
“The fact is the Post Office cost the taxpayers billion and so does the DMV! Privatize them both you have great service and less cost to the taxpayer!”
MQ
“Other than a small annual appropriation from Congress — as reimbursement to USPS for free mail for the blind and absentee-ballot mailing for overseas military personnel — we have not received taxpayer funds to support postal operations since 1982.”
myths about USPS
I couldn’t find one article on the DMV being a drain on California’s budget, on the contrary, I think it brings in revenue.
********
As for the USPS being on top of the GAO’s watch list, true, but how would Fedex do with the following requirements?;
“It’s no secret that the Postal Service has been losing money since 2007. What is not well known is that in 2006, Congress required that the USPS prefund 80 percent of future postal retiree health benefits.
This will cost more than $5 billion a year through 2016. No other federal agency or private company carries such a heavy burden. In 2008, pre-funding contributed to a loss of $2.8 billion. Without it, we would have been $2.8 billion in the black.”
myths about USPS
anonster.
One area that cannot be outsourced is the post office. A close friend is a local postmaster. I have visited his branch and observed how their counter staff interacts with the public.
Having been a council candidate I have used bulk mail and can testify how smoothly it was processed and delivered.
As to volume and speed they are a perfect illustration of effective automation, especially with my handwriting
Vern,
Funny isn’t it , how Quinn reads “unions” and automatically links in “public workers”, that’s knee-jerk on overdrive. I don’t think she realizes that some union workers are in the private sector.
As to union workers sabotaging solar projects, that would be unfortunate, I would think they’d be smarter to embrace a new industry and to try and unionize from the get -go.
Utilities on the other hand have good reason to feel threatened, imagine if the western states did the obvious and the logical, and pushed for solar panels to be installed on every house in the southwest, their profits would be decimated. So instead of doing the obvious and logical, we end up doing projects like this;
http://www.cleanenergyauthority.com/solar-energy-news/sunrise-powerlink-project-121510/
The Imperial Valley has traditionally been farm land, but these new transmission lines are probably going to transform much of that agricultural land into solar farms. Is that the highest and best use of that land? No, but it does guarantee SDG&E a big slice of the solar pie.
I do have to agree with Dalton on one thing though, my family’s business specializes in providing land for alternative energy projects, solar/wind/geothermal and mitigation land, over the last few years many solar companies have optioned our land only to let their options lapse (losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process) it does seem that many of these companies are not solid.
“Funny isn’t it , how Quinn reads “unions” and automatically links in “public workers”, that’s knee-jerk on overdrive. I don’t think she realizes that some union workers are in the private sector.”
MQ says:
I Like most am not a fan of unions period! The have become like a legalized mafia! The only people who love the unions are the corrupt and clueless workers: Teachers union….Bad, bad, bad and Federal union workers…Bad, bad, bad!
Then their is:http://www.unions.org/umap5-NPMHU.htm
http://www.unions.org/umap5-SEIU.htm
http://www.unions.org/umap5-IBEW.htm
http://www.unions.org/umap5-IBT.htm
All of these union’s kill jobs and job creation!
Whether private or not they are destructive and corrupt! Bye, bye GM!
From John Seiler’s recent article – CA Economy Holding Back Nation
http://www.calwatchdog.com/2010/12/20/ca-economy-holding-back-nation/
“Nationally, output has recovered far more rapidly than employment … In California, the process is exacerbated by the high costs of doing business in California. … (businesses) get the productivity they need, or they leave.”
Brilliant. Solyndra as justification for your point. That made my day.