Me, I just don’t get a good feeling about this. I do think SB 1070 will be ruled unconstitutional, it’s a great violation of Americans’ privacy, it can’t help but be enforced in a racially unfair way, there’s no way it’s not racially motivated, it’s gonna tear apart Arizona’s stupid economy and overburden their cops, and I realize it’s going into effect at the end of this month if something’s not done.
But still. It was also the desperate act of a state in the face of decades of Federal inaction on immigration reform. Where’s the energy we know Obama can show when he really wants to accomplish something – like twisting arms to get funding for more war in Afghanistan – as opposed to when he pretends to want something – like the public option in healthcare, or maybe comprehensive immigration reform?
Screw the lawsuits, we want reform (with a pathway to citizenship) NOW!
Go ahead, sorry, what were you all gonna say?
Here is what my friends at Reform Immigration for America are asking us to do:
Send this fax to President Obama:
Thank you for the lawsuit against Arizona to stop their racial profiling law. But I won’t be satisfied until we pass comprehensive immigration reform – keep up the pressure!
Click here to send this free fax to the White House
The Justice Department’s actions are proof that the government isn’t going to stay on the sidelines and let states attack our basic human rights. Tell President Obama not to stop with Arizona!
You have yet to explain how SB1070 violates anyone’s basic human rights.
And they never will Rob, because the law on its face prevents racial profiling. They are just counting on the masses taking their word for it and not reading the bill itself.
What is “comprehensive immigration reform”?
Why not take these able bodied men and woman, who come from the Nation of Mexico, and train them and arm them so they can go and free their families and friends and countrymen from the tyranny of their homeland?
Would it not be better for the people of Mexico to live free of the political corruption and drug cartels taking over and killing many? (Than living in the USA as the modern day slave class)
Cook, that’s an interesting idea. I definitely have felt that they should spend the energy they use sneaking into and around our country and feeding off the public tit to clean up their own nation. I never thought of training them to do so. I’ve also pondered annexing Mexico since they think it’s a one-way border already. Certainly adds to a rational discussion of the issue – because despite some self-righteous arrogant people think there is a rational issue to discuss.
COOK you know what COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM MEANS TO THEM =AMENSTY . the laws are fine IF THEY ARE ENFORCED .
Cook,
Do you think only honest upright citizens are buying those drugs for resale here with state issued business licenses? No, there are just as many if not more crooks and payoffs on this side of the border as in Mexico. Naturally, our crooks prefer that the cops chase illegals rather than drug smugglers & dealers.
Also, vote to stop subsidizing agricultural products like corn that are then sold below cost in Mexico so their farmers have to come here to make a living – that’ll allow your taxes to be reduced or squandered elsewhere.
about time!!!!!
@Cook & thegreatone:
We have a problem with undocumented/unauthorized immigrants, that is clear. However, the Status Quo is NOT a solution.
We are spending Billions of dollars on Enforcement and on securing the border, which has gone up about 7-10 times, and increased deportations from about 60,000 per year to deporting about 400,000 per year. Unfortunately, like the Director of DHS/ICE says we have limited/finite enforcement resources. At this rate to deport 11 million it will take about 30 years, which is NOT a solution. So hoping for attrition and deportation is not an answer.
And all this while we divert limited law enforcement resources from violent offenders to non-violent offenders.
Furthermore even assuming that you are 100% effective in deporting ALL 11 million you are left with the issue of 4 million US born children, who are and will ALWAYS be US citizens . . . so this non-solution of deportation would create an additional problem.
Also, about 5-6 out of 12 illegal immigrants are from Mexico. So proposing to arm Mexicans neglects the fact that half are NOT from Mexico. One of the best things to do is to fight the high DEMAND/Consumption of hard core drugs in the US (we are number 1 in illegal drug consumption) because that is a destabilization to Mexico or any other drug exporting countries.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan
My opinions only and not those of any group
francisco thank you for your service . i always start out my conversations to military personal . i belived you served if i am not mistaken . look i know its a mess this thing . my beef is cutting in line , getting services at tax payer expense . NO DREAM ACT , they need to enforce the law wich nobama does not want to do . thus we have the a.z law . as far as kids of illegals .hey its the parents fault . they sneaked into the country . so they can leave with their parents and when they are old enough they can come back here . no amensty for them . also with enforcement meaning we go after the workers who hire them . it cracks me up when these hispanic activist cry they are just looking for work . IM SORRY ITS ILLEGAL FOR YOU TO WORK HERE . also becoming a american is you put this country first . wich i dont see that NOT FROM ALL but from lots of hispanics . THEY DONT WANT TO ASIMULATE to this country . they want to use it as a ATM . THANK YOU .
great one,
I would posit that people who spell assimilate as “asimulate” need to, um, assimilate some more.
when you hAVE NOTHING . LIKE YOU DO . PICK ANOTHER SUBJECT .. CHALK UP ANOTHER ONE FOR THE GOOD GUYS .
@The Great One:
I did serve (almost 8 years US Marines & about 3 years CA Army National Guard).
1) Cutting in Line. I know that on the surface it seems like an issue of fairness. However, I wonder about this. It seems we are willing to NOT find a comprehensive solution to this problem, so as not to be unfair to those who are “waiting in line” and many times waiting OUTSIDE of our country. I think that NOT finding a comprehensive solution to deal with those that are INSIDE our country and that works and that is in the best interest of our country is UNFAIR to our country.
2) All countries and their economies rely on immigrant labor to be competitive. Yet our immigration system is not effective or efficient to accomplish this.
I think we need to be smart and prioritize our resources against illegal immigrants who are NOT contributing or who are violent offenders and deport those; however, the facts show that the vast majority are NOT violent offenders and are in fact contributing.
Independent studies (2007 – White House Council of Economic Advisors; the Congressional Budget Office; and the National Council on State Legislatures) show that illegal immigrants contribute more in Revenues than they use up in Resources, but that some states carry a greater burden than others. But again the NET effect is a positive impact to the economy or the pocketbook of US citizens or Legal residents.
3) Enforcement has gone up, and under OBAMA deportations have gone up in comparison to the Bush Administration, although under Bush the deportations were also on an upward trend.
4) For the kids of illegals. True it is the parents’ fault.
However, as I said before, assuming that you could deport 11 million, which at current trends will take about 30 years, you would have the 4 million US born citizens. So before you had the parent(s) taking care of them, and now you would have 4 million who would most likely choose to stay.
Question: Who would pay for and take of these 4 million?
How would you accomplish this?
Where would you house them?
If you think that the parents would not leaved their kids behind, think again. Many of the parents have left kids/family behind in their home country, thinking of the day that they would return TO them or FOR them.
So if they have left them back in their home country, what makes you think that they would not leave them in the US?
5) I agree with you. We need to prevent FUTURE illegal immigration, but we can not engage in failed and flawed policies of the status quo…we must address and deal with the ones that are here and understand that those here are made up of MIXED status households.
So to prevent FUTURE problems, I would suggest the following:
B) Do Comprehensive Immigration Reform
b1) And, clear backlogs of those in system first;
b2) concurrently grant conditional residency to those here (come in and register; do background check on them – see more below)
C) and CONCURRENT with B), to prevent FUTURE illegal immigration
c1) Continue the Strengthening of our BORDERS and COASTS
c2) Implement strong E-verify program.
c3) Strong penalties against employers who hire illegal immigrants
c4) Strong Civil Monetary Penalties to those who entered illegally, or Overstayed their Visas (both are misdemeanors) – this way we do not reward illegal behavior
c5) implement a Biometric type of Social Security Card
c6) Focus our limited resources on deporting VIOLENT illegal aliens; and combating the trafficking and exploitation of Women and children
c7) Make the legal immigration process more effective and efficient to clear backlogs for legal immigration and for granting of temporary work permits, and to respond in a timely basis to the US’ economic needs.
c8) Have HIGHER legal immigration processing FEES to help pay for these services.
D) I would also focus on RADICALLY decreasing the HIGH DEMAND for Illegal Drugs in the US.
6) Independent studies also show that most immigrants understand and consider that learning the English language is important to succeed.
7) Assimilating does NOT mean that one has to to give up one’s culture. For example, Culturally speaking I am Mexican, and I am American. I am Bi-cultural. But I have only ONE citizenship. I am a US citizen. I do not have dual citizenship.
In my own immediate and extended family we are a “Baskin Robbins”. We are of different races (White; Black; Brown). We are of different religions (Christian; Jewish; Muslim and possibly Bhudist). We also have different Cultural backgrounds (Mexican; Brazilian; Portuguese; Italian and Asian and African countries). And similar to America, we are ONE.
Thus, I think that it is our deep appreciation and respect for our cultural/Ethnic/Spiritual differences that MAKES US UNIQUE AS AMERICANS and that allows us to come together as a community, while at the same time maintaining and respecting our individual liberties and identity. So I strongly believe and know that multiculturalism or diversity is not something to be feared but rather something to be embraced because it is who we are as a nation, and which allows our citizens and our youth to also compete effectively in this global economy.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan
Santa Ana, CA
My opinions only and not those of any group
Good morning Francisco.
Let’s look at some facts and figures as we debate this topic.
The current population of the world is roughly 6.8 billion including 112 million people in Mexico. Therefore Mexico represents one and half percent of the total.
During the term of president George W. Bush, 2001 through 2008, 7,465,510 individuals came through our front door and were welcomed.
That total included 1,368,654 from the republic of Mexico who, like everyone else, received legal permanant residency in the USA.Do the math. That total from Mexico represented 18.36 percent of the total number legally entering our country.
One and a half percent of the world population live in Mexico yet over 18% of those admitted through the front door should not be overlooked in this debate.Source. http://www.dhs.gov/files/statistics/publications/LPR09.shtm
@Larry Gilbert:
Actually I was barely going to bed at that time…but good morning nevertheless!
So since immigrants contribute greatly to the US, I guess I can conclude that Mexicans represent close to 20% of the contributions when they are only one and half of the total population.
Anonymous and Francisco.
Having survived the earthquake in LA we have just returned to OC.
In my haste this morning I should not have included the US population as part of the world total. Therefore I will remove 307 million which will increase the percentage of the population of Mexico as part of the world total from 1.5% to 1.75%.
After all. We are responsible for accuracy in media. I do not wish to be accused of spinning my comments
Anonymous. If you wish to use the word “immigrant” you need to be accurate
When I was younger I enjoyed the 1920 Last of the Mohicans movie.
Perhaps you can tabulate the number of survivors of Indian Tribes in America. To help you get started here is a listing of all tribes whose name begins with the letter “M”
Macushi (Macusi), Mahican, Maidu, Maina (Mayna), Makah, Makushi, Maliseet (Maliceet, Malisit, Malisset), Mandan, Mapuche (Mapudungun, Mapudugan), Maricopa, Massachusett (Massachusetts), Massasoit (Massassoit, Mashpee), Mattabesic Mattole, Maumee, Matlatzinca, Mayan, Mayo, Mengwe, Menominee (Menomini), Mescalero-Chiricahua, Meskwaki (Mesquakie), Metis Creole, Miami-Illinois, Miccosukee, Michif, Micmac (Mi’gmaq), Migueleño, Mikasuki, Mi’kmaq (Mikmawisimk), Mingo, Minqua, Minsi, Minto, Miskito (Mosquito), Missouria, Miwok (Miwuk), Mixe, Mixtec (Mixteco, Mixteca), Mobilian Trade Jargon, Modoc, Mohave, Mohawk, Mohegan, Mohican, Mojave, Molale (Molalla, Molala), Monache (Mono), Montagnais, Montauk, Moosehide, Multnomah, Munsee (Munsie, Muncey, Muncie), Muskogee (Muscogee, Mvskoke), Musqueam, Mutsun
Once you have that data, all other occupants in the USA are immigrants.
Now that s what I talking about, Identifying problems and offering workable solutions.
So if you find a trespasser in your living room you need to ask if they would like to stay . Because it would be rude to ask them to leave, send there kids to school free, free medical , no need for them to learn to communicate in English you should learn the trespassers language it is more convenient for them. And look the other way when they violate the law of the land because after all they are Latino.
Leonard,
Are you kidding? The Euros were the trespassers! This land was not unpopulated when they arrived, with their guns and smallpox and greed.
Yeah…..we need immigration reform…..just……..I’d like to see it done smart. Done fairly, with an even hand to all, not push-started down a curvy mountain road with bad brakes and Michelle Quinn in the backseat…..
Ooh, that right–! Ahhh! Quinn-free!!!! Love it!
Then I am right when I say that the latinos are not just here for work they are here to colonize and take whatever they want instead of assimilating into our culture and I am supposed to stand back and let them do this without complaining or do anything to prevent it .
Yes I still have yet to see how this violates human rights? The fact is people have broke the law by coming to this country illegally. Are we just going to be pushed over by the enormous amount of people coming to this country in the wrong way? I agree that we need to provide more ways for immigrents to get citizenship the correct way, but those who have broken the law need to be punished, if it happens that these illegal immirents are hispanic….oh well. Geographical location is not arizonas fault.
@Leonard Miller:
The American Dream is the dream of, and has been sustained by the vast majority of immigrants from all walks of life and all countries, and which also includes a huge number of Latinos/Hispanics and Mexicans.
MILITARY SERVICE:
Additionally immigrants or Americans of Latino/Hispanic/Mexican descent have been in the forefront of America’s defense since the times of the American Revolution, serving in our country’s defense in numbers greater than our share of the overall population.
Please refer to:
“Hispanics in America’s Defense” published in 1982 by the US Dept of Defense at:
http://umava.org/historicalcontributions.html
Please see also the statistics for Latinos/Hispanics military contributions at:
http://www.latinoadvocates.org/filteredwebapge.htm
ECONOMIC CONTRIBUTIONS & VALUES:
On a related note, there are negative and false assumptions and stereotypes of the economic participation/contributions by Latinos/Hispanics and of our values.
Looking at California for example where the greatest majority of Latinos/Hispanics reside.
For example, “in 1990 Latinos had the lowest welfare use of any group; Latinos receiving public assistance represented 29% percent of all Latinos in poverty. By contrast, in other groups, those receiving public assistance formed a much higher percentage, ranging from 61 percent for non-Hispanic Whites, to 75% for African-Americans. Thanks to welfare reform in the late 1990s, by 2000 the welfare rates for all groups had dropped. Still, continuing the 1990 picture, a far lower percentage of Latinos in poverty received public assistance in 2000 than non-Hispanic Whites or African-Americans.” This was 17.2% for Latinos; 36.8% for Non-Hispanic Whites, and 24.5 for African-Americans.”
For 60 years, three generations, from 1940 – 2000, the data shows “that Latino males have been the most active element in the state’s labor force”.
“Employment in the private sector generates wealth, while employment in the public sector basically redistributes wealth. From 1940 to 2000 Latino males counted in the census have been by far more likely to be employed in the [PRIVATE]sector than non-Hispanic whites, Asian/Pacific Islanders, or African-Americans. Again, for nearly three generations, Latino males have been the most active element in the workforce participating in the wealth-generating private sector.”
“Also from 1940-2000, Latino households were far more likely than non-Hispanic white, African-American, or Asian/Pacific Islander households to be composed of couples with children.”
Based on Census data…see “La Nueva California – Latinos in the Golden State” by Dr. David E. Hayes-Bautista pages 74-76.
FUTURE DEMOGRAPHICS:
“Demographically, there is no doubt Latinos and other immigrant minorities are America’s future, and on this, Arizona stands on the front lines.”
http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2010/0428_arizona_frey.aspx
Francisco “Paco” Barragan
Santa Ana, CA
My opinions only and not those of any group.
How are human rights violated?
Just read the law where is says if you’re suspected of being here unlawfully “THE
PERSON’S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).”
This obviously doesn’t mirror federal law as many claim
Forget about your State driver’s license and your county birth certificate – they’re not even federal documents. And if you’re not verified they “may securely transport” you to a federal facility (good luck on getting in without a court order, etc) but not to worry – maybe they’ll throw you over the border instead – depends on the meaning of “verified” and/or “may”. Anyway you’re Guilty til proven Innocent.
It’s certainly vague so I wouldn’t head for Arizona without a passport.
hey lets adopt then mexicos immigration law . im all for that
And while we’re at it, we should also adopt Mexico’s tactics in enforcing its immigration laws. I would love to watch the ACLU hacks go into convulsions if that ever happened.
Newbie,
Sigh. Those “tactics” came courtesy of the U.S. National Security Council. Our greatest fear is that Mexico will go commie. It almost happened in the last election when Calderon barely beat the commie Mayor of Mexico City, in an election many people felt was rigged. So we compelled Mexico to close their southern border, effectively to keep revolutionaries out of their land.
There are also no gun rights in Mexico. So only the cops, soldiers and drug dealers can have guns and ammo. Most of the guns used by criminals in Mexico come from the U.S.
This is also by the way why our federal government has allowed so many immigrants to come here for years without documents. If they stayed in Mexico there would have been a revolution by now, and the U.S. can’t have that.
Don’t you see? Our meddling in their affairs is to blame for most of the mess they are mired in. And yes, it is U.S. drug users who fuel the drug trade. Over 23,000 Mexicans are dead because of the drug war, which is 100% our fault.
Art,
Thanks for all those totally unsupported facts and speculation. Well, since Calderon was elected in 2006 (he took office December 1, 2006), check out these stories from BEFORE you claim the US forced Mexico to implement the tactics I refer to, including laws that go back to 1974: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13006798/site/newsweek/from/RSS/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12250584/
I know that pesky facts get in the way sometimes, but as much as you try to blame the US for Mexico’s problems, the truth just seems to dispute that so often.
Newbie,
I do not disagree. The laws go way back. I read your link. Yes, the Mexicans are concerned about the foreign born. Why do you think that is?
I would venture a guess that we have been concerned about a commie takeover of Mexico since the Bay of Pigs.
If anything you just proved my point.
@thegreatone & Newbie:
You state, “let’s adopt Mexico’s immigration law…and tactics in enforcing its immigration laws”.
1) This is not about what Mexico’s laws are.
Our Laws in the US are not and should not be based on what any country does, but on what our values are.
2) The other way to interpret your post is that since anyone can freely drive or walk into Mexico from the US without having their documents/passports checked, I guess you would be implying that anyone should be able to cross freely into the US from Mexico.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan
Santa Ana, CA
WRONG FRANCISCO . we should adopt mexicos immigration law amd then no actvist can cry racial profile , racist . because mexicos is law on immigration is so tough . also you cant walk into mexico without docs . unlike here where they try and sneak in . newbie if your trying to argue with pedroza renember ITS ALWAYS THE U.S FAULT FOR ALL OF MEXICOS PROBLEMS ..