So when last we heard of Dick Cheney, he was polling better than Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats. Then people once again started breathlessly exclaiming he was behind one more nefarious plot and… nothing. Oh, he told the CIA not to let Congress know about a program no one was using, so it wouldnt leak. Wow. Oh, we went to Iraq for Oil. Nutters. Oh, we’re in Afghanistan for poppies. Nutters. Oh, 650,000 iraqis died in the invasion. Nutters. They have fantasies about making someone walk that plank so they feel justified, which tells you where their hearts and minds about America truly are. For you cant have someone content to be a victim unless you can nail down a perpetrator.
These aren’t the kids who cried wolf. These aren’t Chicken Littles exclaiming one more time “the sky is falling!” These are genuine booby hatch imbeciles who live for yesterday and can’t think of any better way to defend current failure than another conspiratorial distraction. If you debate anyone who stands on that side, ask them: “Since you have been wrong on every conspiratorial issue since 2002, since your mother wont let you live in the basement while selling 9-11 conspiracy theory tapes anymore, why does anything you have to say have any validity at all?”
So lets throw one right back at them, shall we?
Essentially, these Health Crisis Nutters are advocating throwing everyone into Medicare, a program that has essentially bankrupted the federal government, just like medicade is bankrupting states. Why do they want to do this? Because their eventual goal to cut costs will eventually be to limit service. Its that simple. Aunt Maggie needs a pacemaker? Too bad. Hip replacement for Uncle Joe? Tough. We’re cutting costs. They don’t care. They have no need to care. This is bigger than the individual. The individual has to stop being selfish. We cant provide health care for everyone and give everyone everything they want. They are sick. They will be happy when Grandma dies. This is their conspiracy.
Euthenasia. Streamlining. Squeezing doctors so they cant make that house call. Its all in there.
Senior citizens! You think trying to reform your social security was scary! You aint seen nothing yet!
They will let more than just medicare wither on the vine. They plan to let YOU wither on the vine.
Enjoy!
Dear GOP,
If not for 8 years of Bush and GOP control of Congress we would not have Obama in the White House.
You guys created him. Now you have to live with his mess.
The McPalin ticket was the worst ever. Lord knows what you will come up with in 4 years.
A party headed for extinction? You betcha!
#1, Darth Vader nutter, so sorry that last conspiracy theory went NOWHERE!!! But it did make good copy, right? At least we know where YOUR ethics lie.
Euthenasia a good idea in some cases perhaps.
Streamlining- I thought that was a republican idea, but it is bad when democrats propose it?
Squeezing doctors so they cant make that house call. How many doctors do you know that make house calls?
Service is currently being limited in the medical area to those who can afford it. Since under the current system costs are rising at 10 – 15 % a year then each year more people cannot afford it so they are limited. Perhaps it is time to try something different.
BTW- Without a Darth Vader there is no Luke Skywalker.
Jim
BS. Everyone in this country gets health care. All you people do is equate Health INSURANCE with Health Care. That is disingenuous and dishonest.
This is the one country where objective facts are clear: no one leaves this country for health care, this country is where they come.
You want to destroy the best in the fascist pursuit of egalitarianism.
Good luck with it.
Yes I said health service, not emergency care. No one can be turned away from the ER.
But the ER is not designed for ongoing health care or preventive care, which is what I think you are talking about.
WE could have a series of joint private and public funded clinics that non-insured persons could have access to for ongoing and non-emergency care. One could require a doctor spend 1 day a month for free at these clinics as part of their licence, nurses also.
It does not have to be an insurance system, but the current system just passes the costs to those who have insurance from those who do not, often at a higher cost.
WE cannot afford to continue with the current cost increases.
The best way to fix health care would be to limit lawsuits against doctors and hospitals. These lawyers keep driving costs up.
#4
Just because you say it, doesn’t make it so, this from Families USA;
“In 2002, the Institute of Medicine released a groundbreaking report, Care without Coverage: Too Little, Too Late, which estimated that 18,000 adults nationwide DIED in 2000 because they did not have health insurance. Subsequently, The Urban Institute estimated that 22,000 adults DIED in 2006 because they did not have health insurance.”
As to your “facts”, your a little out of date, the LA Times reported that 750,000 Americans had sought treatment abroad in 2007, with predictions that 6 million Americans will do so in the near future.
Just chanting, USA is number one, doesn’t cut it, we have REAL problems with health care in this country. I guess the Republican strategy is going to be denial and “as long as I’ve got mine, the hell with the rest of you”, which, I must say, is a very third-world approach to problem solving.
#6 Art
Lawsuits account for a small percentage of our health care costs, the CBO pegged it at 2% in 2004 and said “even significant reductions” would do little to reduce the growth of health-care expenses.
Obama has mentioned shielding doctors from liability if they follow “best practice” guidelines developed by physicians’ groups, which would save money by cutting excessive “defensive” medical treatments.
#7
Just because you can quote it, doesnt mean its worth anything. I mean what is this garbage? The countries held up as beacons of socialized medicine are moving towards privatization. Why would you want to repeat their mistakes unless you want people to die?
Britain’s Labour Party — which originally created the National Health Service — now openly favors privatization. Sweden’s government, after the completion of the latest round of privatizations, will be contracting out some 80% of Stockholm’s primary care and 40% of its total health services.
Since the fall of communism, Slovakia has looked to liberalize its state-run system, introducing co-payments and privatizations. And modest market reforms have begun in Germany.
If you account for the murder rate in this country, without socializing medicine and ruining peoples lives, the United States has equal health outcomes in life expectancy. Cancer survivial is HIGHER. And we consume MORE premium medicine than other countries. Canadians live longer but they lived even longer before socialized medicine.
To keep repeating “WE PAY MORE” is not impressive.
Attacking doctors is no way to “Reform” Health Care. Like the lie that a doctor recommends tonsillectomies because he profits from it. In many cases, the procedure is MORE cost effective than prolonged medication.
Do you REALLY want the DMV pulling out a chart and saying what you can and cant have done based on your symptoms? There may be some socialized medicine that works. Being on the 17 week waiting list may be just fine for a lot of people. Just don’t smoke, gain weight or get old, or you’re out of luck.
In this country we still hold some ethics and seek to treat people like more than a cost chart.
All the countries you would emulate are looking to raise taxes and are seeking ways to step back from the health care monolopolies people like you want to confer on all the American subjects. Germany, England, Canada, France, Eastern Europe, they’re all singing a different tune. Looking for ways to raise taxes and reduce health care involvement.
You are ten years behind the times. You are on the wrong side of history and the wrong side of how the rest of the world is dealing with health care.
Right where a progressive usually is.
If you think you can continue to equate controlling costs with government control, it will continue to become apparent to more and more Americans that people like you have lost your freakin minds.
This is boring. Your argument is stale. You are not challenging. Get a new portfolio of rhetoric.
#9
So you find this conversation “boring”, I’m not surprised, since 95% of it is with yourself. Why do you wing-nuts have such a hard time staying on-point?
You have put a lot of words in my mouth, and spewed out a whole lot of crap and nonsense, I really have no desire to waste my time debating a fool, so I’ll keep this short.
* Just a quick reality check, this from Britain’s, Labour Party’s website;
“The NHS (national health service) is the Labour Party’s greatest achievement. We created it, we saved it, we value it and we will ALWAYS SUPPORT IT”
You’ve obviously MISTAKEN their desire to improve National Health Care with privatization or were you just LYING.
*”In this country we still hold some ethics and seek to treat people like more than a cost chart.”
I guess you’ve never heard of a little practice the insurance companies call; RESCISSION? Where the insurers look for ways to cancel the health insurance policies of individuals once they have an expensive illness. It’s ALL about MONEY, there is no profit in insuring the sick.
* If government health care will be so bad and so expensive, why are the insurance companies so afraid of competing with it? Insurance company lobbyists are spending around 1.4 million dollars a day, to defeat the “public option”.
Well, I will try to write more slowly… you obviously are feeling a bit addled. You must not realize my foot is still shoved in your a$$ from the last time you spewed.
Let me help.
British Leftists unclear on the reality have already had to resort to printing up guides to NHS privatization.
http://www.unitetheunion.com/pdf/RD607%20Patchwork%20privatisation2.pdf.
Quoting Labour Party propaganda? Really? I won’t suspect you were lying. You would have had to actually understand what you were saying, rather than just repeating your information from wherever you dredge it up. England is realizing the folly of nationalized health care. Santa Monica has given up the living wage. Most of the rest of the world realizes that thinking is a dead end.
My question, “When are dead-enders like you going to get a clue?”
Next, if you want to say that there are reforms needed, that’s fine. You can’t be cancelled. Sounds good. But to take the gigantic, empty-minded leap and say that that equates with public health coverage being “safer”?
Perhaps you’re unaware of things called Eminent Domain, where the government treats the interests of one individual as inconsequential to the whole? Or how about our Telemprompter in Chief who says to a woman looking for a pacemaker for her mother, “we think your mom should take a pill”. And what? Die in the morning? Thats more cost effective, apparently.
Do not be distracted by the fact that the woman in question is 105 years old. The basic issue is that under Obamacare, decisions regarding life and death–possibly my own life and death–would be made by a bureaucrat in Washington, rather than by the patient and his or her own personal physician. You can see the result here. Decisions are made by a blissfully unaware and unconcerned yuppie who does not know or care about the particular facts in question, and who does not even have the basic medical knowledge to make a sound decision to begin with.
The “public plan” is a massive giveaway to big business who are just waiting to unload their health costs onto the public plan. Those costs will be subsidized by taxpayers. Now, when costs run over and they can’t pay their bills, what happens? Why, we just print MORE MONEY!
What private company can compete with that?
Public plan is NOT SYNONYMOUS with a government plan. Public plan is NOT SYNONYMOUS with a government plan. Public plan is NOT SYNONYMOUS with a government plan. Public plan is NOT SYNONYMOUS with a government plan.
Just keep repeating that. It’ll make you feel better. Lies always do for the left.
#11
Getting a bit touchy, are we? Your Rush Limbaugh/Fox News provided talking points not standing up to the light of day?
* Remember ,YOU’RE the one who said; “Britain’s Labour Party-which originally created the National Health Service-now openly favors privatization.”
Where did you get that whopper? Rush? Billo? Sean?
And when I quote the Labour Party’s OWN website, where they clearly state that they will “always support” the NHS, you accuse me of “Quoting Labour Party propaganda” hmmm, let’s see here, that just DOESN’T MAKE ANY SENSE! With logic like that, I wouldn’t be too quick to call any one else “addled”.
*What else in your ‘bag-o-crap’, you’ve jumped from health care to eminent domain to teleprompters and back again to health care. Ah yes, the talking point du-jour; Obama wants to kill you.
This FANTASY stems from a provision in the House’s health care reform bill that provides the elderly an opportunity to get COUNSELING on how to ensure that their wishes are followed in the event of a terminal illness or accident that leaves them unable to communicate their wishes to a doctor. In other words; A LIVING WILL, which EVERYONE should have, including you, a$$hole.
* The “public option” will be similar to Medicare, it will not be free, you will be required to pay a premium just like you do for private insurance. The main differences will be ; eligibility, every one will qualify, you will not be dropped because of illness (what a concept) and you will be able to take it with you. Private insurers will be free to compete and to provide ‘premium’ plans, just like they do in other countries.
12
“I’m sorry anomaly, little anonster can’t come out and play… he’s too busy shoving marbles up his nose.” yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah
public option blahblahblah… everyone will qualify blahblahblah and wait! what’s this?! you will be able to take it with you?? I’m sorry. Did you know that there is a law in EVERY STATE in the country that says a company cannot buy individual personal portable health insurance for their employees? There’s already laws mandating you have to be part of a group plan, and when you leave the group, you lose the insurance, unless YOU pay for COBRA.
And none of this collectivist garbage that would make Marx smile that you rave about has anything to do with cutting costs either. Government always costs more. In the private sector, the areas where costs ARE going down should be emulated. Cosmetic surgery and lasik procedures? Those procedures cost less each year. There is no insurance in those areas. Over the last decade, there’s been a HUGE increase in the number of procedures done, all kinds of technological devices created, all the things we are TOLD increases cost everywhere else. But in these fields, it reduces cost.
I’m sorry if it makes no sense to you. I’m sure MSNBC and Katie Couric won’t share the harsh realities with you.
The Labour Party can “always support” it all they like. What does THAT mean when the government is pushing it???
————–
June 6, 2009
CONSULTANTS OPPOSE NHS PRIVATISATION! –and call for the defence of District General Hospitals
The British Medical Association (BMA) Consultants Conference on Wednesday voted to oppose government targets, NHS privatisation and to promote district general hospitals.
Delegates went on to vote overwhelmingly for Motion 9 ‘Marketisation and Plurality of Providers’, also from the Conference Agenda Committee.
It stated that: ‘(i) the government’s costly experiment of “part privatising” the NHS by introducing private providers, a multi-provided environment, PBR, ISTCs, PFIs etc has caused the fragmentation of services and a large burden of debt within the NHS,
Now, this is from “The Workers Revolutionary Party” website. Just your kind of folks there in England. You can see, whether it makes no sense or not TO YOU, privatisation has been going on for some time. Commie pinko a$$holes like these guys dont like it, so no wonder you dont either.
—————
Folks,
This guy isn’t being real. Anyone pushing government on you is not doing it for your benefit. You want to get your health care from the DMV or the Post Office, then go ahead. Hand that to your children.
#13
Poor, poor anomaly,I guess it’s impossible to maintain your cool with all that steam coming out of your ears.
* If the “public option” is like Medicare, you will indeed be able to take it with you. From job to job and across state lines, because it will be national, dumbbell. Ask any retiree who has moved from NY to Florida or Idaho to Arizona; Did you lose your Medicare benefits?
* Actually, it turns out that government overhead is FAR LESS than the private insurance companies, this from the New England Journal of Medicine;
In 1999 the US spent $1,059 per capita on administrative costs verses Canada which spent $307 dollars per capita, or 31% of the US’s health care dollars verse 16.7% of Canada’s health care dollars. Any way you slice it, it seems the government is more efficient.
* As to Britain’s Labour Party being for the privatization of health care (your words) and my proof that they are not, it might be hard for you to admit you’re WRONG, but all these machinations you’re doing are pathetic, someone FED YOU SOME CA-CA and you swallowed it. JUST ADMIT IT, YOU ARE A SH*T EATING FOOL!
Sorry anomaly, but facts are facts, and all of your histrionic ranting won’t change them.
So anonster wants to throw everyone on a program like medicare thats already going broke. Oooh, good idea. Fortunately, not even Congress is stupid enough to be putting such an idea forward.
Notice how when told that it is ILLEGAL for private companies to do what he envisions, it doesn’t even merit a shrug?
Your facts are nothing but old spun statistics. The money government has to spend on health care come from taxes. That costs .25 to collect every dollar. You lose before you even start.
You are a moron and a hack for big businesses looking to unload their insurance on taxpayers. You are a failure of a human being.
Since you cant swallow the truth, go back to whatever it is you were swallowing before. You seem to be enjoying it.
World Socialist Website
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/sep2006/brwn-s29.shtml
British Labour Party conference: Brown stands up for health privatisation
Learn to use Google anonster. Thats the last help I’ll give a trogoldyte like you.