Back in the fall of 1972 I was a senior in high school in Michigan. On the ballot that Nov. 7 was a state initiative to legalize abortion, Proposal B. Voters overwhelmingly rejected it. Although I was too young to vote, I campaigned for it. A similar pro-life was taken the same day in North Dakota. It seemed that democracy was working. A pro-life electorate was defending the unborn.
The next January 22, 1973 — 36 years ago today – the U.S. Supreme Court imposed its Roe v. Wade decision, overturning every state abortion law in the country. Absurdly, it even overturned the laws in states with legal abortions, such as California and New York. Roe created a new “right” to let an abortinoist trick a mother into letting him kill her baby. Life, decency, and democracy all were aborted.
Dissenting Justice Byron “Whizzer” White branded the edict “raw judicial power.”
The chicks look pretty happy in the photo, it’s hard to imagine what could make anyone so happy about a decision to abort other than just having the choice.
Roe v. Wade was the right decision, and it still is the right decision.
Get over it, and enter the 21st century for a change.
Oh, and the Roe v. Wade decision actually is the real pro-life decision. The right-wing Christian anti-abortionists have misappropriated the “pro-life” moniker. Who are they to argue with religion about abortion? Who are they to claim that Christianity supports their view? What arrogance! THEY are the pharisees, the self-proclaimed pious ones, that Jesus threw out of the temple.
To abort is to kill, simple as that. Don’t hide behind this “Choice” argument it’s killing life.
The first trimester (0 – 14 weeks), is one of the most crucial for your baby. Within this trimester you will find the most rapid rate of growth and development taking place. By the end of the 1st trimester, your son or daughter will have grown to 3.4 inches (8.7 cm) long and weigh about 1.5 ounces (43 grams). Your infant will develop everything from limbs to vital organs. Week by week the changes are astounding!
Your rate of growth in the second trimester is nothing compared to the baby’s. If this rate of growth continued after birth, he or she would be thirteen feet tall at one month of age! Did you know all of baby’s major organs have formed by the 15th week of pregnancy? Some, such as the heart and kidneys, will continue to develop further this trimester. Eyebrows and fingernails form. The reddish, wrinkled skin is covered with a fine hair. By the end of this trimester your baby is between 11 and 14 inches long and weighs about 2 to 2½ pounds. She can swallow and hear. You will notice periods of activity and quiet as he moves, kicks, sleeps and wakes.
This is a choice?
#3:
“To abort is to kill, simple as that.”
And you know that how? Who are you to define that? On which authority?
Joe –
While I am personally against abortion, I fully support a woman’s choice regarding this matter. After all, God’s great love for all His children is firmly entrenched in “free will.” Abortion is a personal choice and that’s why I support Roe v Wade.
OC Gator, I find your comment intriguing. Capital punishment is the full force of the state killing someone. Do you support capital punishment? If so, you too could be considered a murderer hiding behind capital punishment.
Until the pro-birthers come up with better ways to help women, via acess to eduction, child care, contraception, better adoption laws, forcing dead-beat dads to pay child support, the list goes on, you will have no sympathy from this woman.
John you have no idea what it is like to walk in the shoes of woman who feels she has no other options in life. Get over yourself, get a clue and become a part of the solution.
#6: That is pretty much my position as well.
As for OC Gator, besides being against capital punishment, he also must be a pacifist and abhor wars, since wars are also about killing people.
6,7,8 we are not talking about war, dead beat dads, capital punishment we are talking about a life. AKA Abortion is KILLING life. No matter how you try and muddy the waters it is what it is, killing a life.
If you scratch the surface most anti-abortionists are anti-sex, control freaks. They don’t like sex education, condoms or the ‘morning after’ pill, their real agenda is to control women. Bottom line, if you don’t like abortion, don’t have one.
Embryonic stem cell research began again in earnest yesterday. The hope is to repair severe spinal cord insults and damage.
“Until the pro-birthers ..”
What is this “pro-birthers” moniker the pro-abortion group wants to slap on pro-lifers?
Is it supposed to be a cut or a dig? I don’t get it.
Call me what you will, pro-life or “pro-birth”, either is better than pro-abortion.
#9: War, capital punishment all take lifes.
So, you are making a difference with respect to taking lifes: In some cases ist is ok, in some it isn’t. Who are you to make such distinctions?
Killing is killing is killing, no matter who does the killing or how old the killed life is.
Since you are obviously ok with killing lifes, e.g., in war or capital punishment, you can’t possibly be against abortion. Thai is, unless you have a split personality, of course… That’s a disease, btw.
#6 Right On!
I am pro life and pro choice and I think a lot of us are. While I don’t want lives to end in abortion I do not believe that the Government should enter into medical decisions that belong to a woman and whoever she chooses to consult. I want a Government that enhances my freedom, provides security and a level playing field and stays out of my living room and bedroom and definitely our of any decision I make regarding my body. I am not chattel requiring my owner to decide what I can do or can not do.
OC Gator you didn’t answer the question. Are you against the death penalty and wars? We are all guessing that you are not and are therefore a hypocrite.
#12: What “pro-abortion” group? There is no “pro-abortion” group anywhere.
Nobody wants abortions. But, if a woman has an abortion or not should be her choice, and not the choice of people like you.
Banning abortion would make the US a Taliban-style country. This country, however, is about freedom.
In other words, banning abortion would be un-American, and unpatriotic.
It is one of this country’s ultimate ironies and hypocrisies that conservatives, on the one hand, want government to be non-intrusive, as little a part of people’s lives as possible. Yet they have no problem having government intrude on perhaps the most personal decision a woman can make.
Talk about inconsistent!
Adding to the hypocrisy, many of those who are pro-life and seem to place such sacred value on life, are also pro-death penalty.
Talk about morally inconsistent!
Bush can lie us into an unnecessary war that kills hundreds of thousands and still wear the mantle of “pro-life”. You just can’t get MORE hypocritical than that.
#17 Anon. You do live a sheltered life. War is not a video game at an arcade. People die. “Hundreds of thousands” were killed?
Without debating your numbers let me suggest that you don’t mix two entirely different topics.
This blog post is a debate between those who support “choice” and those who are “pro-life.”
Thank you Larry.
Larry, “people die” indeed. Where is the outcry from you “pro-birth” people against that?
Killing unborns is not ok, but killing born people is? What a disgusting hypocrisy.
This blog post is a debate about killing people, and I note for the record that you and OC Gator are for killing people, e.g., in war or as capital punishment. Anybody who has ever had an education can see that your position against “killing unborns” is therefore clearly fake. By your own words you are clearly pro-abortion.
Of course, I understand that Larry and OC Gator don’t like the way the discussion goes.
That is easily remedied: if you are not opposed to killing human beings in war and as capital punishment, don’t claim to be opposed to killing human beings in an abortion. Because nobody with a brain will believe your claim, and you look like a hypocrite who’s real agenda is making the US a Taliban-style country.
#11: The therapy was developed with help from researchers right here at UCI: http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-stemcells24-2009jan24,0,7749457.story
The first human test is done by a company in the Bay Area.
This is one of the areas that could help our economic recovery. Good to see that we are getting back to world class research and development, after 8 years of religious thought police.
Funny that the “fortune” command on my Linux machine (for those who don’t know, the “fortune” command, which has been around forever on the Unix operating system, prints random quotes) showed this on-topic quote:
A non-vegetarian anti-abortionist is a contradiction in terms.
— Phyllis Schlafly
Larry Gilbert, you may want to ‘control’ the discussion but my comment (#17) was a follow up on #16’s.
“War is not a video game..” it’s folks like YOU that treat it as one, you neither know nor care how many people have died since our invasion of Iraq. “Hundreds of thousands” even the Iraq Body Count is at 100,000 dead, the Lancet and ORB put the death toll much, much higher.
I have to laugh when I read about your “libertarian” freedom loving views, all that means is you don’t want to pay any taxes while still being ‘ free’ to impose your narrow social mores on everyone else.
Welcome John Seiler!
I am not sure why anyone without a functioning uterus would feel so free to impose parenthood decisions on countless others who make those kinds of decisions with medical staff. What’s in it for you? Really….?
Abstinance-only programs don’t work, according to data and research. Are you now going to fund safe sex and condom programs to prevent abortions? Doubtful, but go ahead and surprise me with your answer!
Just yesterday, on his third day in office, President Barack Obama reaffirmed women’s rights to choose by overturning the “Mexico City Policy” implemented by President Ronald Reagan.
Obama Overturns ‘Mexico City Policy’ Implemented by Reagan
U.S. Can Now Give Federal Funding To International Family Planning Groups That Provide Abortion Services
By JAKE TAPPER, SUNLEN MILLER and HUMA KHAN
President Obama signed an executive order today reversing the ban that prohibits funding to international family planning groups that provide abortions, as first reported by ABC News.
Under the hotly debated “Mexico City Policy,” the U.S. government cannot provide funding for family planning services to clinics or groups that offer abortion-related services overseas, even if funding for those activities comes from non-government sources. It essentially bars recipients of U.S. foreign aid from promoting abortion as a method of family planning.
If organizations received government funding, they would “agree as a condition of their receipt of federal funds that such organizations would neither perform nor actively promote abortion as a method of family planning in other nations.”
Read more: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/International/story?…
Again, welcome!
anon #24. I will continue to remind you that John’s post is about abortions, not any war fought by those old enough to hold a weapon or strap an explosive device on their bodies.
These unborn babies do not have a “choice” in this issue.
Larry,
How IS it that the Iraqis have any choice at all in getting killed in an illegal war?
I think you “feel” more for fetal matter that has never taken a breath over those who are already here and getting blown up, killed and maimed in a preventable situation by your choice.
Larry, are you saying the people of Iraq had a choice? I think there is enough evidence proving Bush’s determination to attack Iraq without regard to weapons inspectors, intelligence or capitulation by Saddam. How MANY born and unborn babies have died from our dirty little war?
I stand by my comments relevance as George W. Bush is considered pro-life. Wrap your head around that, I can’t.
Better said than me, anon #28!
(ps, I really enjoy your comments and I agree much of the time – is there a chance that you could choose a moniker for posting that would make you “different” than some of the other “anon” posters? ~not any kind of obligation, but just asking 😉
Done.
#26:
Larry, Gator’s comment was about killing. So, when are you going to chide Gator for going off-topic?
Oh, and about 20% of pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage.
As Francisco Ayala, a genetics professor at UCI AND an ordained priest, asks, “If God explicitly designed the human reproductive system, is God the biggest abortionist of them all?”
You and Gator indeed seem to imply that God is killing 20% of unborns, who “don’t have a choice” (your words)…
Why are you still going to church, then, supporting an apparently mass-murdering God? (The implication of your position, not mine.)
anonster: Right on!
I would like to remind people that most Libertarians are pro-choice, and anti-war.
Zander, the question of course is if unborns are considered human beings. My guess is that what you call “most Libertarians” would say that unborns, up to a certain point, are not yet human beings.
But Larry and Gator claim they are, apparently from conception, so they have to explain their assertion that killing human beings is ok in one situation and not in another.
That’s a moral dilemma only these anti-abortionists have, and it is a dilemma they can’t get out of, unless they stop being anti-abortionists, or speak out against war and capital punishment.
Zander,
Very true my friend, however I think there is room for diversity of thought in our party.
I myself do not like abortion but I am pro-choice. And I oppose the death penalty and most wars.
Joe – I support the death penalty and just war.
I would support the death penalty and war against unborn babies under identical circumstances as required.
Does that answer your query?
Red. As you raise the issue of Iraq let me share some history which predates “W”.
“On March 16th 1988, Iraqi jets bombed the town of Halabja with chemical weapons. At least 5,000 people were killed and 7,000 severely injured. Fourteen years on, thousands are still suffering the affects of the chemical weapons.
The gases used included mustard gas, nerve agents sarin, tabun and VX. This was the largest chemical attack on a civilian population ever.
Of all the atrocities committed against the Kurds during the Anfal Campaign, Halabja has come to symbolize the worst of the repression of Iraqi Kurds.”
Need I remind you that those were the same WMD which Saddam TOLD the world, including his own generals, he still possessed that misled everyone involved in the war on terror in Iraq?
Larry,
Thanks for reminding me that the neocon Rumsfeld helped make Saddam OUR dictator under President Reagan.
Larry, you are a revisionist to an embarassing degree. You are also a liar. Even the inspectors said that there were no WMD. YOU are in the 22% group that will say anything/believe anything to support former President GWBush.
Bush is now out of office. No need to work so hard fibbing on his behalf. You’re now entering a brand new phase of accountability and transparency previously scorned by Mr. Bush.
Red Vixen said: “Larry, you are a revisionist to an embarassing degree. You are also a liar.”
Red Vixen – You do not belong in polite society. You are a rabid canine (Vulpes vulpes).
You do not deserve to post or comment on this blog.
You are the LIAR and I have proven in the recent past.
Thanks for weighing in Junior. ~yawn~
#36: Junior, from your rather incoherent post I gather that you are ok with abortion.
#37: Larry, please stop trying to rewrite history. The US administration under Bush and Cheney was “misled” because they wanted to be misled. There were lots of people even in the administration who knew better, but Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld didn’t want to hear that.
Joe – I thought that I was very clear. I am for the death penalty and war for unborn babies who, according to current USA criteria deserve either.
In other words, if an unborn baby would commit a crime worthy of the death penalty than that unborn baby deserves the death penalty.
If an unborn baby deserves to have war thrust upon it – then so shall it be.
Since you seem to be a little dense, I am throwing your “illogic” right back at you.
In other words, just in case you still do not understand, the innocent unborn deserve to be protected – murders deserve the punishment proscribed for their heinous acts.
Junior, I understand you perfectly. You are for capital punishment and war,. That means that you can not be against abortion, unless you are have a split personality, which would mean you would be sick.
Case closed.
“36 years and 50 million dead babies later, Roe v. Wade” That’s what this discussion is about. It’s about KILLING BABIES. It’s about taking the life of innocent babies, that have NO CHOICE in the matter.
If you want to talk about war, capital punishment, about the bus running on time, start a discussion on those issues.
This is about taking the life of babies and how easy it is for society to do it. In my opinion all you folks who take a Pro-choice stance on killing babies are sick puppies
#44: Since when are unborns “babies”?
A baby is a born human.
Merriam Webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/baby%5B1%5D
Last I looked Roe v. Wade was NOT about babies, and in particular not about killing babies.
It was YOU who talked about “killing”. If you are ok with war and capital punishment, you can NOT be against abortion, unless you have a serious illness known as multiple personality disorder.
No amount of trying to change the topic to killing babies is going to change that.
Get over it. Your arguments are just a fallacy.
Oh, and the second definition listed in Merriam-Webster applies to you: acting like a baby.
Oh, and there are indeed people who are against abortion AND against cpatial punishment AND against war.
These people have my respect, even if I may disagree with them.
People like you, gator, who try to dodge the issues, don’t deserve respect. You only show that you have never even seriously thought the topic through.
Red. 22 percent approval? Is that Keith O’s survey? The Gallup number was 50 % higher than what you posted but all you Liberals only read leftist data. Yes, I know you were once a card carrying Republican.
Back to the post. Abortion, abortion, abortion. We have other stories that deal with “W” and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nice attempt to deflect the original debate.
Oh. Almost forgot to respond to your photo of Reagan. Shall we bring up FDR’s Yalta meeting with Stalin? How many Russians did Stalin kill?
Each of us can easily point fingers.
Joe said: “Since when are unborns “babies”?”
Look at an ultrasound image, they certainly appear as babies. I reject your and Webster’s definition of babies.
Junior, I have looked at ultrasound images.
And who are you to reject official definitions? A little nutty, eh?
How do you know that what you see on the ultrasound is actually real? It could be faked, just like some people say the moon-landings are faked.
You are really a nut case.
And, Junior, if you “reject” Webster’s definition or not is rather irrelevant for the world.
Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, no matter how much you foam at the mouth. In fact, your foaming at the mouth guarantees that it will not be overturned, because it shows that you don’t have arguments.