While all eyes were on the tube watching the Republican debate in Michigan or focused on the war in Iraq, there is another major action underway that is flying below the radar screen of major media outlets. In my view this is a state department effort to create the Bush legacy before he leaves office. Land for peace. Twist a few arms in the Israeli government to negotiate a new deal with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in carving out a Palestinian state in lands currently controlled by Israel.
Today’s Jerusalem Post reports that “Abbas wants a state in 98% of the West Bank.”
While we in the US endure concessions of our Rights and Freedoms as it relates to compliance with the new department of Homeland Security the nation of Israel has a similar obligation to its people. Especially in light of the number of terrorist attacks they have endured.
As stated on the rear jacket of Alan Dershowitz’s book entitled “The Case For Israel” it mentions Israel’s “basic right to exist, to protect it’s citizens from terrorism, and to defend its borders from hostile enemies.”
There are those who will claim that UN Resolution 242 requires Israel it return to its pre 1967 boundaries. That is not what 242 actually stated. Let me suggest reading the book entitled “Myths and Facts, a guide to the Arab-Israeli conflict.”
Following is today’s Jerusalem Post article that can be found at the following link.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1191257270068&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull.
“Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday laid out his most specific demands for the borders of a future independent state, calling for a full Israeli withdrawal from all territories captured in the Six Day War in 1967.
In a television interview, Abbas said the Palestinians want to establish a state on 6,205 square kilometers of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It was the first time he has given a precise number for the amount of land he is seeking.
“We have 6,205 square kilometers in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.” Abbas told Palestine TV. “We want it as it is.”
Abbas’s claim comes as Israeli and Palestinian negotiating teams are trying to hammer out a joint vision for a future peace deal in time for a US-hosted conference next month.
With Israel seeking to retain parts of the West Bank and east Jerusalem, Abbas’s comments appeared to set the stage for tough negotiations, which are expected to include complicated arrangements such as land swaps and shared control over holy sites.
According to Palestinian negotiating documents obtained by The Associated Press, the Palestinian demands include all of the Gaza Strip, West Bank, east Jerusalem and small areas along the West Bank frontier that were considered a demilitarized zone before the Six Day War.
Abbas said his claim is backed by UN resolutions. “This is our vision for the Palestinian independent state with full sovereignty on its borders, water and resources.”
Israeli government spokeswoman Miri Eisin declined to comment, saying she did not want to prejudice negotiations. But the Palestinian demands appear to exceed anything that Israel would be willing to offer.
Israeli and Palestinian negotiators held their first working meeting this week as they try to agree on the wording of a joint declaration in time for next month’s conference. The US hopes the document will provide a launching ground for full-fledged negotiations on a final peace agreement.
Despite Abbas’s tough public stance, aides to Abbas said he has agreed in recent talks with Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to exchange West Bank land Israel wants to keep in a final peace deal with an equal amount of Israeli land. This would allow Israel to annex the West Bank area where the settlement blocs are located.
As part of the proposal, Abbas offered Olmert about two percent of the West Bank, the aides said. Olmert is seeking some 6-8% of the West Bank, but has said the exact amount of territory should be decided in future negotiations. The aides spoke on condition of anonymity since they were not authorized to discuss sensitive diplomatic matters with the media.
In exchange for the West Bank land, Israel is reportedly considering transferring to the Palestinians a strip of area between the Gaza Strip and West Bank to allow for a connection between them.
Abbas said the joint statement at the conference must deal with the main hurdles preventing a final peace agreement.
“The international conference must include the six major issues that are Jerusalem, refugees, borders, settlements, water and security,” Abbas said.
Juice readers.
Do you think this latest attempt of negotiation will result in a Palestinian state?
Note: In a desire for peace Israel returned more than 90 percent of the territories it conquered in the Six Day war. At this stage do you feel that Israel will risk their public safety by this latest land for peace summit?
While many in America and Europe support the concept of a two-state solution, do you think it will happen in this new round of peace talks?
Will extremists of “both” sides sign up to this land for peace compromise?
Does PA President Mahmoud Abbas have the power to stop terrorist attacks by Abu Nidal, Hamas and Hezbollah whose main objective is the destruction of Israel and the Jewish People?
As many have stated, including Allan Dershowitz, “the very idea of a Palestinian statehood alongside a Jewish state has itself been a tactic–a first step–toward the elimination of Israel.”
To me the Palestinian tactic is simple. It’s like the expression of how do you eat an elephant. “One bite at a time.”
There is a good role model, Allan Dershowitz. The man also believes it is ok for retired Football players to slit the throats of an ex-wife and a friend returning sun glasses. He is real credible.
If Palestinians live on 98% of the West Bank, why shouldn’t they get their own country. They deserve it, and Abbas has been playing by the rules and has gone out of his way to be friendly and conciliatory towards Israel. The only hang up is this religious fanatacism where Christian fanatics who believe it is etched in the Bible that all Palistinians should be killed and Israel should rule the old empire of David and Solomon.
Shame on anyone who drinks this kool-aid.
Religious fanatics, defenders of double murderers. Larry I am shiocked you would listen to such people.
The jews stole that land to begin with from the Arabs and Palistinians who lived there before them. They fought a protracted guerilla war against the British governors of that area after WWII and then forced all of the Arabs out. I think it’s only fair for Israel to give some of that land back.
email response:
thanks for the article Larry….
Can U really trust them since their philosophy is to annillate Israel and the Jews.
all the best
anon 2:15 p.m.
Let’s be clear. I have always taken the position that OJ got away with murder. Where does that comment relwte to my post? Alan Dershowitz wrote a book which provides an overview from his perspective. On that same jacket which I referenced is a quote from former New York governor Mario M. Cuomo which reads:
“Alan Dershowitz’s detailed and penetrating analysis of the issues that fuel the continuing war in Israel should be read by everyone interested in reaching a fair conclussion as to how the tragic conflict should be ended. Every charge leveled by Israel’s opponents is dealt with lucidly and convincingly by one of the nation’s brightest minds and most effective advocates.”
This issue is larger than you or I. Don’t lose your credibility with an outlandish statement that: “religious fanatacism where Christian fanatics who believe it is etched in the Bible that all Palistinians should be killed.”
Anon.Help me out here.
1) I use the NIV Bible. Which version, if any, do you use?
2) Please educate me. Tell me which book in the Bible, chapter and verse contain your above flame throwing statement?
anon 2:25
Let’s look at what you wrote:
“The jews stole that land to begin with from the Arabs and Palistinians who lived there before them.”
Aside from my Bible let me quote from the book entitled Myths and Facts. Feel free to refute the following with a valid reference not just a predetermined and prejudiced opinion.
“The Jewish people base their claim to the land of Israel on at least four premises: 1) God promised the land to the patriarch Abraham; 2)the Jewish people settled and developed the land; 3)the international community granted political sovereignty in Palestine to the Jewish people and 4) the territory was captured in defensive wars.”
Question. Which side won the Six Day war?
Ever hear the expression “to the victor belong the spoils.”
As stated Israel has already relinquished over 90 percent of the land which they occupied in their peace agreement with Egypt.
“Fair” you say. Get real. Fair would be the ability to place your child on a school bus and not wonder if it will be blown up by a terrorist as your child heads to school. Gruesome photos available.
Gee is #3 Chuck deVore? Sounds like his policy is to anhilate the Palistinians.
claudio.
#3 came from a Democratic friend, not Chuck DeVore.
In fact he will be attending the Oct 19th meeting of the OC Democratic Party. I told him to look you up.
The survival and stability of Israel in the Middle East is the
most important issue…in any
discussion of Statehood for Palastine! Having said that, Israel has eroded, infiltrated
and occupied the West Bank since
1967 through a variety of US and Israeli Administrations. The issues have included water rights,
high ground for security and oversight of terrorist cells and
a variety of religious and even
metaphysical reasons. The truth
of the matter is….that if the
West Bank was Cherokee Indian
Land…..asking the White people
to leave would be a problem. Not
an impossible task we might add,
but an effort that would require
a timed, steady, long term shut down of the “Occupied Territory”.
The true question is: Does the US
and Israel have the political will
to offer the fair and just withdrawal of Israeli residents
…with paid relocation…and to where? The position by Abbas could
be considered the same as that of
Sitting Bull…before his Ghost Dance and assassination at Fort Rice! Philosophically, Abbas has
no other reasonalble position when
respresenting his people. The final question of course is: If
the “Settlements” are shut down..
what Security will Israel have that “Suicide Bombers”, Iran and
Syria don’t attack Israel proper with nuclear weapons in the next
few years!
ron and anna.
Your bottom line says it all.
“what Security will Israel have that “Suicide Bombers”, Iran and
Syria don’t attack Israel proper with nuclear weapons in the next
few years!”
ZERO. And that is one fact that cannot be disputed. The US (and surely not the UN), with all of it’s military might cannot GUARANTEE that future attacks on a shrunken state of Israel will be forever blocked. Terrorists will not curtail their efforts until the State of Israel is driven into the sea. They said it and I have no reason to doubt their long term objectives.
Note: Prior comment deleted by me due to typo’s. We need to add spell check to the commentary section or I need otbe more careful
Dr. Howard Garber, producer & Host ACRU Report. Cable TV. (American Civil Responsibilities Union.)
Good afternoon Howard.
AS you are new to commenting on blogs let me state that this is not the place for a lengthy editorial or rebuttal. I respect your knowledge on the Democratic Nation of Israel and your lifelong support of that country.
While you have sent an email which is longer than the post I will add your most recent input as follows:
Larry, my friend,
Your email sounded negative. Didn’t intend mine to be. My comments re your informative “Bush legacy” piece was brief as I could make it, & provide the factual info that’s rarely published. Wrote it as a comment to yours, but couldn’t locate it on Pedrosa’s “OC Juice Blog”. Please assist here in getting my “comment” published.
You refer to your various info sources,& that you’re a “messenger for their info”. You do a great job in that regard. You suggest, therefore, (e.g.) that I direct my critical comments to the JPost, Israel Consul, etc. Larry, they all seem blind to the realities that AFSI & I (& very few others) have presented over the years!! For Israel, (surrounded by deadly enemies for 60 yrs) its been “peace at almost any price” — promoted by “peace now” advocates. Tho it’s been subjected to illogical “double standards”, it continues to yield to outrageous US, UN & global “land for promises” pressures.
The Holocaust was a great loss to the WORLD. So too would be the loss of that tiny miraculous, democracy.
HG
So that no one thinks I am acting as a censor I will post Howard Garber’s first email response.
Just read your “Orange Juice Blog” article. Will reply briefly in support of your pro-Israel blog of Art Petrosa’s anti-Israel, “open borders” blog. (He finally replied to my invitation — stating, in effect, he feared appearing on my “ACRU TV Report”.)
Don’t have the time to do a detailed “critique” at this time, but suggest you consider a few basic truths neglected in your piece. (Contained in my published pieces over the past 20 years.)
“West Bank”: ” A media creation adopted by the US and other nations. It was “biblical Samaria & Judea”. After WWI the territory became part of the “British Palestine Mandate”. (Passports for Jews indicated “Palestinian”; the Palestinian Post is the Jerusalem Post today, etc.)
“Occupied Territories” After 1948 Arab rejection of UN partitioning, Jordan’s King Abdullah I invaded & brutally occupied Samaria & Judea (biblical Israel) for 19 years — expelling its Jews, desecrating synagogues, cemetaries, etc. No condemnation by UN & the world — nor was it ever referred to as “Jordanian Occupied Territory”. Why?
“Liberated Territories” In 1967 Israel was to be attacked by Nasser’s massed Egyptian armies, together with Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. Israel’s “miraculous” pre-emptive 6 day war, Liberated the Jordanian Occupied Territories, — in addition to taking over the Sinai. But the World has since referred to the conquered lands as “Israeli Occupied Territories”. (In 1968, 100 retired U.S. generals & admirals directed a strong statement to Pres Johnson, the US State Dept, & UN Security Council that Israel’s very survival depended upon its retaining the Jordan River as its defense border!!) (Will provide on request.)
“Palestinian State”: Jordan is & has been a “Palestinan State” with over 70% of its population “Palestinian Arabs” However, in 1970, “Palestinian” Jordan expelled Arafat’s PLO killing more than 10,000 — without UN condemnation! Why? (Because UN condemnations are reserved for Israel.)
“Land for Peace”: The UN, the US & the world has pressured Israel to negotiate “land for peace” since 1967. In fact, its “Land for Promises”. One must question, “promises” by credible Arab leaders like “Chairman Arafat”? Pres. Mahmoud Abbas? (#2 Abbas assisted Arafat establishing terrorist PLO, & planned the 1972 slaughter of Jewish Olympic team!
“Settlements”: Term applied only to the Jewish communities of Samaria and Judea. (One such “settlement is Ariel” — a city of over 25,000.) Why are Arabs of this region not called “settlers”, & their communities not also called “settlements”?
Intifada: Arab term, that we know means Israeli-Arab Insurrection.
Jewish State: Israel is not a “Jewish State”. Like the USA, it’s a ” pluralistic, multicultural, (permissive) Democracy”. And for 60 years it’s tolerated growing internal & external Arab enemies dedicated to its demise — ultimately prevailing militarily, politically, and/or demographically.
Reference to Israel’s returning over 90% of the territories:
Its return of the Sinai to Sadat was itself over 90% of the land — not even considering the “West Bank”. One of Sadat’s demands was that the no Jews were to remain in the Egyptian Sinai. (What if Israel demanded all Arabs leave Israel?)
More to come.
PS As a member of Americans For A Safe Israel (my AFSI chapter) one gets “the Facts” in its monthly AFSI “Outpost”. (Also if readers digest some of my past commentaries they’d stop using anti-Israel media propaganda terms & arguments.
Howard
Larry,
Thanks for your ongoing, well researched, well written, effective commentaries. Also for publishing my entire related comment – and for participating as guest on the “ACRU TV Report”.
Howard Garber
Founder/director, ACRU, Inc.
& host of the ACRU TV Report in its 10th year,