Now that the Vietnamese community has come to the forefront in Orange County, I think it is time to examine an issue that has been festering since this summer.
Tan Nguyen, the OC GOP candidate who ran against Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, made immigration an issue, then he went too far by mailing a letter to Latino voters telling them they could not vote if they were not citizens. Did Nguyen commit an arbitrary act – or were his actions merely the tip of the proverbial iceberg?
I am told that some of Assemblyman Van Tran’s associates, whom I often refer to jokingly in this blog as “Trannies,” have been heard on Vietnamese radio stations ripping into Latinos. Of course I cannot prove that allegation – but it is fairly damning. It hints at a brewing storm that could well tear apart the people of central Orange County.
On the surface you would think that Vietnamese Americans and Latin Americans would share some commonalities. Both peoples have suffered greatly and have fled their countries of origin to find better opportunities here in the U.S. However, that is where the similarities end. The Vietnamese immigrants were brought here by the U.S. government. They were handed government services and in many cases free college education – and small business loans.
Meanwhile, Latin American immigrants come here illegally for the most part. No red carpet for them – just border patrol officers, dangerous deserts, and Minutemen. Even if they find jobs and settle down to raise families, they do so with the ever-present risk of being caught and deported. And they do the dirty work – whereas most Vietnamese residents gravitate to white collar and government jobs.
You would think that the leaders in each community would try to find ways to bridge the differences between these two peoples. However, the Trannies are fanning the flames of racial hatred – and even an outsider to their clique, Janet Nguyen, mentions “cracking down on illegal aliens” in her campaign mailers.
There are more Latino voters in the 1st Supervisorial District than there are Vietnamese voters. But the latter figure to vote in greater numbers in the upcoming special election than their Latino counterparts. Unless Latino voters wake up and smell the coffee. Will they? They have a Republican and a Democrat Latino candidate to pick from, in Carlos Bustamante and Benny Diaz. Will these candidates motivate them to go to the polls? I don’t think Bustamante will succeed in that regard – but Diaz might.
And what does the future bode? For years experts have predicted that while Latinos will eventually dominate this state by sheer force of numbers, power will eventually coalesce in Asian communities. The reason is obvious. The latter focus on educating their children – that is common to Chinese, Japanese, and now the Vietnamese. Latinos too often fumble that ball.
Part of the problem is the fact that the local school district with the most Latino students, Santa Ana Unified, is an unmitigated disaster. How many Latinos are on its school board? One – John Palacio. The rest of the board members include two white trustees and one Asian.
Take a look at the Garden Grove and Westminster School Boards. They are filled with Vietnamese trustees. What a difference. That is what happens when one community votes and the other one doesn’t. You could even argue that one community cares while the other one is asleep at the wheel.
Some of the fault for this is political. The Democrats dominate Santa Ana – but their leaders are supporting a white candidate for the 1st District, Tom Umberg. They look down at Diaz even though he is an educated professional who cares about his community more than Umberg ever will. I know several Latino Democrats who have already endorsed Umberg. What are they thinking?
On the statewide level, Vietnamese children can look forward to in-state college tuition. I can’t remember if California adopted this for Latino immigrants. Perhaps our readers can speak up about this? Denying Latino high school students equal access to college is popular in my party, but it is damning to the future of the Latino community at large. Education is the only way out of the bottom of the socio-economic pool.
As for the political repercussions of the Vietnamese cold war with O.C. Latinos, take a look at the picture on the left. That is allegedly supervisorial candidate Trung Nguyen’s car. If there is any hope for Latinos to ultimately prevail in central O.C. it is the fact that the Vietnamese community is splitting up – perhaps permanently. Trung apparently feels he is the “Number one Vietnamese.” Tran thinks he is. Janet Nguyen hopes she will be.
The flip side of this equation is that the Latino community is split as well – and too many Latino voters do what their Democrat masters tell them to. I don’t know that they would find warmer waters in the OC GOP – in fact I think my party for the most part is generally not a good place for Latinos. They tolerate us when we do as we our bid – and banish us when we show too much independence.
Look at the OC GOP Caucus in the 69th Assembly District. Its chairman, Tim Whitacre, is most proud of one accomplishment – recalling Nativo Lopez from the SAUSD board. The other caucus members include exactly one Latino – me, although it should be noted that caucus member James Vanderbilt’s is Latino on his mother’s side. I am also told that in the Central Committee elections last year, I was the only Latino Republican countywide to succeed in getting elected. Not good!
Latino voters and community leaders will have to unite in order to prevail in central O.C. Right now they could do so behind Diaz and actually do something that matters – replace Lou Correa with another Latino leader. But Correa apparently won’t even endorse Diaz for fear of his Democrat masters. Nor will Congresswoman Sanchez. How very disappointing.
Latino leaders also need to make sure that our community does not respond to the hate coming from some GOP Vietnamese leaders with equal measure. We need to build bridges – not explode them. But that doesn’t mean we should lie down and just take the vitriol.
Democrat Vietnamese leaders have been silent – but they are starting to wake up. Garden Grove school board trustee Kim Oahn Nguyen-Lam came to prominence this year when she was rejected by the Westminster School Board after they initially hired her as their new superintendent. Phu Nguyen made the headlines when he almost ran for the 1st Supervisorial District. Lan Pham did run – although he is a dark horse at best.
Democrat Vietnamese leaders need to take steps to nullify the actions of their anti-Latino GOP brethren. I think they will – but first they need to stop voting for the Trannie candidates and recruit their own candidates, from their own ranks. That will take guts.
I will do my part here at the Orange Ju
ice by bringing to light every instance of Latino bashing by Vietnamese politicians that I come across. We must shame them into stopping this Xenophobic behavior. It must not be tolerated in this New Year.
You would think that Vietnamese politicians in the O.C. would have learned from the fate of Tan Nguyen. You would be wrong. But there is still time for them to change their ways before this Cold War becomes a full-blown guerra.
Art, me thinks you just shot yourself in the political foot with this posting —-
Poster 1,
It wouldn’t be the first time! Do you have anything salient to offer?
Art, Thanks for talking about something the L.A. Times will NEVER write about, racial strife between Asians and Latinos. Please keep up the great work you are doing and I hope this post will generate some thoughtful debate.
Reads like the future of the latino population will be that of cattle.
ANd the future of the viet population will be becoming their task masters.
Is this freedom of choice?
The first thing the Vietnamese leaders can do is purge people like Van Tran from their rolls, unless they feel he serves a purpose. Perhaps they are using him for the money or perhaps they actually do like what he expouses? Either way, I will not be voting for these type of hate mongers ever no mattter how many slick mailers I happen to get in my mailbox.
As a retailer myself, why do the Vietnamese people in general always try to get out of paying the sales tax? I mean, historically, they have been supported by Americans’ taxes since they landed here, yet they refuse to pay taxes most of the time. Is it a cultural thing?
Just a thought, has Van Tran ever paid his fair share of taxes? My bet in Vegas would be a “no!”
Art,
The racial strife between the Hispanic and Vietnamese communities are a product of many things. *One* of which is the difference is what the Vietnamese community has achieved since 1975 and what the Hispanic community has achieved in a similar time period and how they did it.
While you are correct about the Vietnamese being brought here leagally and having services available to them, the Hispanics have also had similar services available to their children who were born here. Back in 1975,those children were entitled to everything the Vietnamese or any other citizen received.
Many Vietnamese now consider themselves Americans first. Many Hispanics see themselves as Hispanics first. The Vietnamese have not wasted a lot of time and effort marching in the streets over entitlement issues which has kept them out of the backlash. They have concentrated on raising their children and grandchildren so they could compete in “our world”, and they have done an outstanding job.
The Vietnamese have retained their culture, but they have not tried to force it down everyone else’s throat. They have made learning English a top priority since they arrived in 1975. And, as you pointed out, education was not an option for their children. They made certain their children stayed in school and did well! That has allowed them to move way up the economic ladder in just over 30 years. Something many Hispanics have not been able to do.
Vietnamese became part of the political process, in large part, because they knew they were here forever. They had little hope of returning home. Many Hispanics are here to earn money and then hope to return home to live out their lives with their American dollars. That too is an important difference in attitude.
Today, most Vietnamese have mainstreamed. They learned to play our game and they have become very adept at it. Many Vietnamese see the influx of undocumented the same way many non Hispanics do and their politicians see the political advantage for them in keeping with that attitude. They believe it will help them garner more anglo votes and, to some extent, they are correct.
And of course we can’t forget voter turn out. Vietnamese vote in much higher numbers than Hispanics. It doesn’t matter how many you register if they don’t vote. Now,with more and more Vietnamese candidates splitting that vote, individual Vietnamese candidates have to win over anglo voters in enough numbers to get them elected, and that’s exactly what they are trying to do. They are using the issues that resonate with those voters to do it and that’s feeding the “strife”.
If you look at Los Angeles, first there was strife bewteen Hispanics and Blacks. Then came the Asians and the strife included them too. Asians have not fared as well in politics in Los Angeles because of the inter-Asian “strife”. Here in O. C. there is some inter-Asian strife, but Vietnamese outnumber other Asian groups and vote more often, so they are now a political force.
The mainstream Vietnamese politicians are not going to align with a Hispanic community that is turning off Anglo voters until those Anglo voters are no longer a factor. Hence, the strife will continue.
Great comments Art.
It is what I’ve been saying for some time.
You give Latino Immigrants the same government benefits as Vietnamese Immigrants and you’ll have a new model minority.
While I’m happy for who ever succeeds in life, there should be no dispute that Latino Americans really have to pick up themselves by their bootstraps.
On the Tuesday after Tan Nguyen infamous letter was disttributed I pointed out that it was probably generated from his office.
Tan Nguyen, Janet Nguyen(with her immigration officer push at the GG jail), and Van Tran understand that you can get votes by bashing Latinos. They understand that while the Vietnamese community may not totally agree with the racial devisive message, they will still only vote Vietnamese.
Benny Diaz message is the voice of Latinos in this district.
As far as those Latino Democrats who will be supporting the white savior of the Latino people, shame on you.
Umberg is bad for Latino representation. This guy would not even walk for Latino immigrant rights in May but some believes he deserves the Latino Community support. Nope!
Those Latino democratic bloggers at this site who support Umberg are sellouts.
Poster 6,
I don’t think so. The Vietnamese politicos, led by the Trannies, had the South Vietnamese flag honored this past year by our Governor. Hello – there is no South Vietnam anymore folks.
Also, the local Vietnamese community uses Vietnamese language media just like Latinos use their Spanish language media. They are quite reliant on this media in their political efforts. If you are going to try to blend in with the rest of America, you need to move on past foreign language media.
However, you are right about English – Latinos were held down for too long by bilingual education. I blame the Democrats for that.
Isn’t it interesting that both the Democrats and the Republicans represent their parties with pack animals – elephants and donkeys? That’s how they treat Latinos too. We are just their pack animals – and neither party really wants us to seize political power at the ballot box.
The Vietnamese community in the OC has indeed figured out the game – now Latinos need to do so as well. They can start by saying no to Umberg and electing Benny Diaz.
The second picture down completely invalidates anything else you may have to say. Unless you intended it to be comedic?
Jake,
Not sure what you mean – to me it totally validates my point – which is that too many Vietnamese politicians in the OC are demonizing Latinos.
Perhaps you might elaborate a bit as to the point you are trying to make?
Thanks,
To Art from poster #6-
There were very few people outside the Vietnamese community who cared about the flag issue. That was a lot different than the Hispanic led marches that happened across the Country last year. Doing mailers or media in a local language is also fair game. Many different candidates do it, and will continue to do it as long as there is a population speaking those languages. Those are inter-community things.
What I’m talking about is attitude and the realization that you’re in the U. S. now and you need to learn, and live by, the U.S. system. Most Vietnamese have a different attitude than many (not all) Hispanics when it comes to that. That first generation of Vietnamese immigrants got the benefits and they positioned their children to succeed without those benefits. They forced their children to assimilate into the mainstream while preserving their culture within their own family and community. They became Americans in many respects. Not so with many in the Hispanic community.
Yes, the Democrats held back generations of Hispanics with their bi-lingual education. But if you remember, those of us who screamed about the damage being done were labeled racists by Hispanic’s. Even those Hispanic’s who tried to change the system were labeled turn coats, or worse. Now, as we see that at least some of the Hispanic community has figured out the damage done, we have little sympathy.
The Vietnamese realized on their own that English was the first step on the path to success. And the anglo community has recognized that difference, as well as other differences, between the two communities. Many Anglo’s are more supportive of mainstream Vietnamese than Hispanics, especialy those Hispanics who support the immigrant rights issues.
While many Anglo’s don’t like the huge influx of Vietnamese into O.C., they do respect the strides that community has made over the past 30 years. And they know that influx has peaked. They see Hispanic immigration as ongoing nonstop and sucking up resources forever. Vietnamese politicians are using that perception to attract more Anglo votes and that’s adding to the strife between the two groups.
That’s why the Vietnamese politicians see the the opportunity to align with non Hispanics as a positive thing. Yes, Vietnamese will vote Vietnamese..as Hispanics will vote Hispanic. But the real questions are, will Vietnamese vote for an Anglo over a Hispanic if there is no Vietnamese running. And, will the Anglo’s vote for a mainstream Vietnamese who shares their opinion on immigration over a Hispanic who doesn’t?
Poster #11(6)
“What I’m talking about is attitude and the realization that you’re in the U. S. now and you need to learn, and live by, the U.S. system.”
Give any person a free education, free cash grants, free food and a free housing subsidies and I would hope he/she would have an attitude and realization that he/she is in the U.S.
“That first generation of Vietnamese immigrants got the benefits and they positioned their children to succeed without those benefits.”
Finally, someone from the Vietnamese community acknoweldges the benefits that all first generation Vietnamese(like Van Tran, Janet Nguyen and Trung) received. I was beginning to believe that all those billions of dollars in free education, housing and food subsidies was just some imaginary budget expense.
Perhaps, it wouldn’t be that hard, given the free education that you received, to conclude that these intial benefits dramitically helped Vietnamese immigrants improve their social status were it’s benefits lasts for many generations.
Hispanics never had this advantage, they had to pick themselves up with their bootstraps. If they get a grant it’s based on merit not base on are you a refugee or not.
Let’s consider giving Hispanics all these benefits and you’ll see that there is absolutely no difference in human beings who originated from different parts of the world.
“They became Americans in many respects. Not so with many in the Hispanic community.”
Yes, they have became Americans in many respects but you wouldn’t get that idea while walking down Little Saigon. You wouldn’t make that statement had you known that as a percentage, the Vietnamese community request more often for Vietnamese Language election than Hispanics.
“They see Hispanic immigration as ongoing nonstop and sucking up resources forever”
As someone who fomerly worked in social sevices at the local and state level you are grossly mistaken about who is really sucking US taxpayers.
One of these days consider going over to the Garden Grove social services office and record how many Vietnamese you see walking into that office. You’ll first notice that the staff at this facility is probably 50% Vietnamese so to assist the %50 client base. The worst thing is that you’ll see this elderly Vietnamese lady getting dropped off in a 2006 Lexus to apply for foodstamps because she claims her diet is different than her family’s diet.
Then take a stroll over to the Social Security office(next door) and you’ll see elderly Vetnamese applying for SSI because their son or daughter, who just dropped them off from their shiny new Range Rover, can’t support them.
Yeah, Vietnamese learned the American system so well that continual to pay. I heard that candidate Trung has advised the Vietnamese community that his office will assist with SSI applications.
I challenge anyone to witness this for themselves. You can’t miss the location, just look for the parking lot that has a bunch of Lexus, BMW, and maybe a Mercedes.
“And, will the Anglo’s vote for a mainstream Vietnamese who shares their opinion on immigration over a Hispanic who doesn’t?”
Honestly, I really don’t care what poster #6 rebuts because I just came back from the Gonzales Market at 1st and Harbor. There I re-realized that with all the thousands of Latinos shopping there it is just a matter of time.
Sorry for the confusion.
I meant to reference Tan Nguyen in my previous post.
I don’t even know who Van Tran is.
I gotta stay off the bottle.
Vietnamese were admitted to the US as allies who fought with us in Vietnam and fled life-threatening persecution when the North took over the country. They came as refugees per US policy and the US government provided aide to such refugees who are fleeing for their lives because they are labeled as pro-democracy, anti-communist and friends of the USA. Watch what part of the world is blowing up and you will see the pattern repeated, albeit since then in smaller numbers (Somali’s, Iranians, Afghani’s, etc. etc.). The next big group could be Iraqi’s depending on how things play out over there. Stay tuned.
Thank you for this post Art. It is always disturbing to hear of bad feelings between ethnic groups.
At the same time I think it would be helpful if the alleged verbal Latino bashing was verified, so that we didn’t get all worked up unless it really is happening.
What a shame if it is true. It would help if some political leaders (i.e. GG City Council) stepped in and calmed the waters since these elected officials rely on support from both the Hispanic and Vietnamese community.
Poster 15,
I hope that we will hear more from our readers about the broadcasts in question.
Santa Ana Councilwoman Michele Martinez is aware of the problem – I believe she will try to set up a townhall meeting to address it. That sounds like a good idea. Both communities need real leadership right about now…and we need those leaders to work together to get a handle on this.
Art,
Thank you for writing such a great post. It is time for these issues to be aired and discussed.
I am sick and tired of politicos of all stripes thinking it is okay to bash Latinos and immigrants. So many are quick to play on the fears of the “brown menace”. This must stop.
Shame on Tan Nguyen, Van Tran and your buddy Janet Nguyen for jumping on the Latino-bashing bandwagon. Do they forget that they too are immigrants to this country?
Again, great job Art.
Great take anon #12. Anon #11 should not of brought up the handout issue.
Great job Art. When the issue of the Tan’s 14,000 letters came out I spoke with my vietnamese friends and the vietnamese media about the issue of racism and the wrong politicians using the issue of inmigrants. As far as I can remember, I haven’t see an appology from their community leadership. I offered my help, I gave my phone number and my good intentions, they never called me back. I was interview by the Vietnamese media by almost 1 hour and during that interview I pledge LULAC supports but they never contact us. When I went to the Vietnamese-PAC candidates interview, I told them that I knew their mind were to support their Vietnamese candidates and I didn’t have no problem with that. I told them that I came to the interview as a sign of good gesture and good will toward their community. I mentioned them that my main goal was to try to work together among our communities. After that interview I never hear back from them.
I am pledging again in your blog to my friends in the Vietnamese community that if they desire I will help to organize a round table to work together, like I did with the blacks when I became member of the OC NAACP and when I was member of the Latino-Jewish round table and many other organizations. Right now I am working with the Arab-American community to have our first Latino-Arab round table. That is important and is imperative in order to make our county better. We owed to our county to work together.
Yes it is true that we all have our social and poltical differences, but we can agree to disagee, and we can agree to compromise. But using racism against each other is wrong and is enough. I am a believer that everything is possible and if we work together, we will be able to defuse the heat created by phatepic and ill politicians that think that cheap politics and money can buy everything. Please don’t take me wrong, I love money like anybody else, but the problem is how you are using it.
Art again thank you for helping our communities to discuss this important issue. We owed to our kids and we owed to our nation. I offer my services to start the healing process. You are doing a good service to our county
Benny Diaz
God Bless you Benny Diaz for being a part of the solution! We need more leaders like Benny Diaz.
Anon#12-
1.I am NOT a member of the Vietnamese community. My family came from Eastern Europe.
2. If you worked for Social Services, as I did in 1975, you know that all American born children of illegal immigrants were eligible to receive cash grants (welfare checks) food stamps and medi-cal benefits *if* their family met the income guidlines. We had several Spanish speaking workers to handle those caseloads and had workers fluent in some other languages also.
3. I never received any public benefits although, for a period of about 2 years, I would have been eligible.
4. All immigrants and their children are entitled to free education. The Vietnamese did receive special grants to help with post High School education.
5. I said- They SEE Hispanic immigration as ongoing and sucking up resources- and I stand by that statement. FYI,there are many outside the Vietnamese community who think the same way.
I am well aware of the Social Security office you mentioned and I know that what you said was true. There are abuses of the system by people of all ethnic backgrounds. That’s one reason the system is in meltdown!
Little Saigon is much different than the view driving down First Street, from Euclid, East to Grand. Little Saigon is an ethnic shopping area and a tourist area. At one point Santa Ana tried to create a similar concept ( before Little Saigon existed) with the Fiesta Marketplace, but that never worked.
If you remember, we were talking about strife bewteen Lations and Vietnamese. I was commenting on perceptions (true & untrue) that are part of that strife. You’re just like the folks that called people racist when they tried to kill bi-lingual education. You miss the point, become defensive and point fingers at others. Ok, go for it. I expected as much when I posted!
Art, are you sure they were bashing latinos and not just trying to sing nortenos? Benny, is out ahead by working with the Arabs, the next big refugee group that’ll be coming mostly from Iraq – the younger ones will literally “blow away” some of the current gangs.
Poster #23 DID YOU SERVE? I served with many fine Latinos in the U.S. Marine Corps and remain friends with many. Asians are under represented in the military overall but what does that have to do with this post? Here are the names of Vietnamese who have given their lives for our country (Iraq casualties).
Rank Name Service Age Date KIA Hometown
SFC Nguyen, Tung M. USA-SF 38 14-Nov-06 Tracy, CA
Cpl Le, Binh Ngoc USMC 26 3-Dec-04 Alexandria, VA
LCpl Lu, Victor R. USMC 22 13-Nov-04 Los Angeles, CA
LCpl Lam, Jeffrey USMCR 22 8-Nov-04 Queens, NY
Spc Tran, Quoc Binh Guard 26 7-Nov-04 Mission Viejo, CA
LCpl Dang, Andrew S. USMC 20 22-Mar-04 Foster City, CA
LCpl Dinh, Alan Lam USMC 19 22-Apr-03 Snow Camp, NC
Poster#23
I remember two years ago the Vietnamese Pharmacies were all claiming discrimination by the county run Cal Optima program and other like programs because the county wanted to better monitor the the prescribitions and services that these pharmacies were charging the government.
Low and behold we find out that these Pharmacies were constantly bilking Us Taxpayers for unnessary equipment, services and prescribitions. They claimed that they knew their clients on a first hand basis and their clients felt comfortable with them. Yeah right!
In reality these Vietnamese owned Pharmacies felt comfortable with taking U.S. Taxpayers to the cleaners.
Wake up America. This is how they treat U.S. Taxpayers after the U.S. gave them freedom, gave them housing, gave them food, gave them an education.
This model minority sounds like a bunch of ungrateful cheaters?
I think what is going on here is that the Trannies are encouraging hatred for Latinos as a way to encourage angry white voters to support the Trannie candidates. So you have in essence one minority group throwing the other one under the bus. Very sad. However, this appears to be backfiring as moderate Vietnamese are bound to end up working with Latino leaders to bridge the gaps created by the Tran clan.
Art…fellow blogger Mill agrees it is time to stop bashing latinos, however, he bashes Lupe in his post calling her a “broad” and to take responsibility to what has happened to her in her younger life. Sounds like a double standard, but when spreading hate and lies, it is best to only consider ones opinion and ignore the truth.
Poster #27 is correct the term
Golly, thanks Art for helping to spread the hype and increase racial tension by posting an unsubstantiated claim against the Vietnamese.
When you say “I am told” but can’t name a source or quote any specific claim or statement you say is out there, you are spreading rumors.
Will you stop at nothing to promote your candidate Benny Diaz?
the hispanics have conflicts with everybody…look at the racial gang wars between the blacks and them.
Oh Puhleeeese Poster #30. You only show your ingnorance of racial tension with your post. The next thing you’ll probably say is that Asians use African Americans for target practice. Remember the L.A. riots in ’92 and how Asians stood on building roofs with rifles?
I do not believe there is a derogatory attitude towards the Hispanic community by the Vietnamese community.The anti- Hispanic attacks are associated with anti-illigal Hispanic immigration.This immigration issue is a conservative Republican platform.The candidates mentioned are supported by the Republican party with the understanding they interject this platform in their community.The immigration issue is a tool to incite-mobilize groups with similar or different general agendas to vote Republican.I do not believe the Vietnamese voter has any anomosity towards Hispanics.They are supportive of Loretta Sanchez and other Hispanic public officials.Politics is about dividing in order to conquer.Politicians offer no real solutions in oder to create a public perception that politicians are a necessary full time occupation.It is a dirty buisiness.One has to take it for what it is worth.