Shawver and Carr overlook their beloved City Hall.
The two most interesting political characters in Stanton are not actually on the ballot this year, except they sort of are – that’s Mayor-for-Life Dave Shawver (who’s led that town for about 30 years – eat your heart out Miguel Pulido!) and my old friend, eccentric anti-tax activist Kevin Carr.
These two come together in this election, in the form of Measure HH, which should be of interest to many cities, as it highlights the potentially problematic interplay between district elections and term limits – which is why I called this piece “EVERYONE LOOK AT STANTON!”
But first let’s get the Council races out of the way. Two districts are up this year, each with two candidates vying against each other. District 2, where special ed teacher Victor Barrios is taking on incumbent Hong Alyce Van (right), caught my attention in September when the Kleptoscribe Matt Cunningham penned a LONG piece looking into the burning issue of: Does Alyce Van really still live in the District she’s representing, or does she spend MORE time in another home she owns in a different district?
Matt’s piece is hilarious – you can see he spent days if not weeks investigating this controversy. Matt doesn’t do this sort of thing without getting paid, it reads like a report presented to a boss to show how much work he did, and the best conclusion Matt could reach was that “her actual residence seems murky at best… the evidence is at best contradictory.” But who paid Matt to spend so much time on this? Of course I assumed it was Alyce’s opponent Victor.
PERO… you know what they say about when you ASSume. Victor (left) called me and said he had no idea why Matt wrote this piece, that he has no problems with Alyce or wherever she might spend most of her time in this small town, he just thinks he’d be a better Councilperson than her. Victor is disabled, and opposes how some of the local parks have been filled with gravel. Well, I think we have finally figured out who paid Matt to investigate Alyce, but you’ll have to keep reading!
In District 4, commissioner John Douglas Warren is facing off against an electrician named Mike Montgomery. If “Warren” in Stanton sounds familiar, it’s because John is running for the seat currently held by his mother Carol. John believes that it was his Pacific Electric mural in Stanton Central Park (right) that made him and his mom famous and popular in Stanton, that and other things. A local history buff, he tells me that the ACTUAL TRAIN that used to roll through Stanton is now the “ghost train” at Knott’s Berry Farm.
Nobody knows much about Mike Montgomery, but Kevin Carr likes him. Kevin doesn’t like any incumbents, or incumbent-adjacents, he says they all vote to raise taxes. And just as bad, they don’t do anything about the prostitution in Stanton parks. Particularly this one transsexual prostitute who frequents a park near a school. They say that they can’t because of state law.
The OJB has not endorsed for or against any of these candidates, none of them seem particularly bad or crazy, they all know each other in this small town, and I don’t even know what Party any of them are in.
More on Mayor-For-Life Shawver
You all know (or you should) that when Janet Nguyen was a Supervisor, she managed to replace all the distinguished, accomplished administrators at CalOptima with hospital lobbyists and campaign contributors. And her preferred method of driving off the good administrators was this: Anonymous, lying letters accusing them of malfeasance would appear everywhere (which were later traced to the hospital lobbyists), then after a while Supervisor Janet would be all “This is what people are saying, there must be some truth to it,” an investigation would commence into the bogus charges, and eventually the administrators would leave for a better job at a less dysfunctional place.
Something really similar has been happening in Stanton for years, and all signs point to it coming from Mayor Shawver. And it always happens to people whom the Mayor-For-Life prefers not to have on “his” Council.
1. A few years back when Kevin was running for Council, anonymous accusations began circulating that he didn’t really live where he said he lived. After a while, Mayor Shawver started repeating these accusations as “something that needs to be looked into.” Next thing you know, Kevin was startled at home by DA investigators wanting to know if he really lived there. “Well, here I am!” he responded.
2. Donald Torres is currently a Councilmember not up for re-election this year; he’s the son of DPOC head Ada Briceno. One candidate tells me Donald is “too progressive.” “Too progressive? How so?” Because he invited Muslims to speak and give their side on the Gaza conflict. That sounds reasonable enough to me, especially now that the DPOC seems to have been taken over by Zionists unquestioning supporters of Israel who call any critics of Israeli policy “anti-semitic.” Donald sounds fine to me, but I can’t get a hold of him.
Anyway back when he was on some commission, anonymous accusations began circulating that he had missed a whole lot of meetings, which he hadn’t, but Mayor Shawver eventually brought up these accusations as something “people were saying.” Donald was able to prove he’d been to every meeting. I can’t contact Donald to confirm this. Possibly somebody told him that Vern Nelson is a bad person he shouldn’t talk to.
3. Then this year, anonymous rumors were passed around that Hong Alyce Van doesn’t really live in the district she’s representing and running for re-election in, rumors which were eventually echoed by Mayor Shawver. Then Matt Cunningham’s piece appeared. Hey – I think we have a good guess who paid Cunningham!
Measure HH:
Where Term Limits & District Elections COLLIDE.
Stanton finally got term limits for its councilmembers in 2015, thanks to the hard work of Kevin Carr. A couple years later, Stanton got district elections thanks to Kevin Carr, Sal Sapiens of Los Amigos, and eventually attorney Kevin Shenkman. Like many cities, Stanton opted to create four Council districts with a Mayor-at-large. This is not the ideal under the CVRA, but so far it has passed legal muster – most recently in San Clemente, Laguna Niguel, and Rancho Santa Margarita. (And nobody ever questioned having a Mayor at Large in big cities like Anaheim and Santa Ana.)
But Behold the Shark Jump: Stanton’s City Attorney then gave the opinion that The Mayor is not a “Council Member.” And hence, not bound by the Term Limits, which apply only to “Council Members.” The Mayor-For-Life LOVED that decision! Shawver could indeed stay Stanton’s Mayor until the Angel of Death unkindly takes him away from us.
In apparent reaction to this development, the Council put Measure HH on the ballot, which creates term limits for Mayor. But now KEVIN CARR HAS WRITTEN THE BALLOT ARGUMENT AGAINST THAT. Huh? And nobody bothered writing an argument FOR the measure (in fact one politician was hoping I would do that here.)
But I think Kevin is right – with one ordinance giving the Mayor a limit of two terms, another one giving Councilmembers a limit of two terms, and an acceptance that a Mayor is not a Councilmember… any of these people could still serve for SIXTEEN YEARS. When Shawver’s termed out as Mayor in 2026, he could run for two more terms on Council (for a total or 40 years.) Any of these Council people could serve for 8 years and then 8 more years as Mayor. I don’t think that’s what anyone wants. Except for them.
Kevin says forget Measure HH, the opinion that “a Mayor is not a Councilmember” is laughable, and that when Shawver tries to run again in 2026 for Mayor OR Councilmember, take it to a Judge and get that opinion knocked down. Before this idea spreads across the County. And I think I agree.
What do you think, Stanton? Here’s what I was sent:
§ 2.04.070 Term limits.
A person is ineligible to hold office as a member of the city council if such person has subsequent to December 31, 2015 served on the city council for two full terms.
(Ord. 1044 § 1, 2016)
§ 2.04.080 Voting districts established.
At the expiration of the current terms of office of members of the city council, city council members shall be elected by four city council districts, the boundaries of which shall be adopted by resolution and the office of mayor shall be directly elected.
(Ord. 1073 § 2, 2017)
Measure RR 2016 “Term Limits”
Yes: 75.24%
No: 24.76%
https://ballotpedia.org/Stanton,_California,_City_Council_Term_Limits,_Measure_RR_(November_2016)
Measure HH 2024 “Mayoral Term Limits”
§ 2.04.070 Term limits.*
A person is ineligible to hold office as a member of the City Council if such person has subsequent to December 31, 2015 served on the City Council for two full terms. A person is ineligible to hold office as Mayor if such person has subsequent to November 4, 2024, served as Mayor for two full terms.
(Kevin argument included below)
https://ocvote.gov/sites/default/files/elections/gen2024/measures/layouts/STAN%20-%20HH%20-%20LAYOUT%20-%20TP%2C%20FT%2C%20IA%2C%20AA.pdf
Stanton Residents Will Vote on Term Limits for Mayor Next Year
Oct 24, 2023
https://voiceofoc.org/2023/10/stanton-residents-will-vote-on-term-limits-for-mayor-next-year
Timeline
November 4, 2014 – Sales tax (Measure GG) (Passed 55%) (Note: Council-member Shawver re-elected)
November 6, 2016 – Repeal sales tax (Measure QQ) (Failed 68%)
& November 6, 2016 – Term limits (Measure RR) (Passed 75%)
November 14, 2017 – Voting districts finalized
November 6, 2018 – First election for at-large Mayor and Districts 1 and 3 (Note: Mayor Shawver elected)
September 26, 2023 – Mayoral term limits on Nov 2024 ballot passes city council 4-1 (Shawver in opposition)
November 5, 2024 – Mayoral Term Limits (Measure HH)
(one of my favorite places)
Hi Vern! It has been an interesting situation regarding Measure HH, as this is the first batch of post-2016 term-limit council members (Taylor, 2018–26; Torres, 2022–30?; Van, 2019/20–28?) who proposed the term limits on the mayor. At no point did the mayor actually support this measure, as noted in the Voice of OC article.
However, the arguments being made suggest that the mayor is somehow the mastermind of something specifically targeted against him. This has created a unique situation where both the mayor and Mr. Carr have found themselves on the same side for differing reasons.
If there had been an argument in support, it would have been penned by Taylor, Torres, and Van, not the mayor. However, if term limits carried over between council members and the mayor, this would also restrict the ability of the trio to seek the office of the mayor in the future.
Kevin told me that the Mayor eventually voted in favor of putting HH on the ballot; and that the only reason he wasn’t originally listed as a yes vote was that he was absent that night. Did Kevin tell me wrong?
In any case HH still allows someone to serve 16 years – 8 as councilmember and 8 as mayor. And it enshrines a goofy-ass city attorney opinion which a judge would certainly overrule, and which could lead to copycat mischief in other cities.
That’s correct that the mayor did eventually agree, but he has a tendency to vote with the majority when it is stacked against him and will even state as much before he votes. Up until that point, most of these votes were 4-1 against him. By the time it reached the 9/26 meeting, this item was being discussed for the third time from proposal, to placement on a future agenda, and then deliberation. Timeline below.
8/22/23
Consideration of term limits for the office of directly elected mayor
Yes: Taylor, Torres, Warren, Van
Excused: Shawver
9/26/23
Shall the City Council proceed with a ballot measure that would impose a two-term limit on Mayoral service?
Yes: Taylor, Torres, Warren, Van
No: Shawver
Shall the City Council proceed with separate term limits or combined term limits on Mayoral and Council service?
Combined: Taylor
Seperate: Torres, Warren, Van, Shawver
Shall the City Council proceed with placement of the aforementioned ballot measure or measures on either the March or November 2024 Municipal Election ballot?
November: Taylor, Torres, Warren, Van
March: Shawver
5/28/24
Final placing it on the ballot
Unanimous
The separation of councilmembers and mayors as different elected offices already exists in cities with at-large mayors. An example of this can be seen in the Garden Grove municipal code below. This is what the City Attorney is defining by not recognizing the elected mayor as a elected councilmember.
Garden Grove
§ 2.04.020 Term Limits.
1.
Office of Mayor. No person shall serve more than four consecutive two-year terms as mayor. No person who has been appointed to the office of mayor for more than one year of an unexpired term shall be eligible for more than three subsequent terms.
2.
Councilmember. No person shall serve more than two consecutive four-year terms as Councilmember. No person who has been appointed to the office of Councilmember for more than two years of an unexpired term shall be eligible for more than one additional four-year term.
Oh, and a slight correction. The Stanton Pacific Electric depot is now the Knott’s Ghost Town Railroad depot. After the closure of the West Santa Ana Branch in the early ’50s, the station was moved to Knott’s. I included this in the mural, where I used the color scheme from the restored Bellflower depot before it was repainted in WWII colors.
Photo of the old depot from the Southern California Railway Museum
https://scrm.smugmug.com/Pacific-Electric/Lines-of-the-Pacific-Electric/Southern-District/Santa-Ana-Line/i-ZX4pvMr/A
Torres is a fat loser like his momma the anti-Armenian racist.
It’s against state law to enforce anti prostitution laws ? What a bag of weird shit .
Senate Bill 357 in 2022 removed the criminal code for ‘loitering with the intent to commit prostitution.’ While actively engaging in prostitution services is still illegal, waiting around to commit prostitution is no longer a valid reason for law enforcement to stop someone.
There’s that, and also remember Stanton doesn’t have its own police force. They have the OC Sheriffs, who will enforce what they’re gonna enforce. (At least they found Samantha Runyan’s killer.)
That’s weird
Odd that Stanton, with a total population of 38,000 felt the need for Council Districts. Seems everyone in Stanton lives in relative proximity in Stanton’s 3.1 square miles, as opposed to Anaheim, where geographic and demographics vary wildly in Anaheim’s 51 square miles. Anaheim’s Districts each number about 58,000 and vary greatly from District to District, the reason residents felt they needed representation, specifically for the two Districts that comprises west Anaheim as well as District 3 that covers the Historic District. Prior to our District election the majority of our Council members resided in Anaheim Hills with seemingly no interest in anything besides the Hills , the resort area, and the area closest to City Hall. Can’t imagine the craziness that would ensue if 34 Council members ,each Anaheim Council member represented only 9,000 residents, of our 340,000 residents total.
Stanton had no need for districts.
Well, HH passed handily. Mayor Shawver will pretty much be able to run for two more terms in Council when he’s finally termed out as mayor after 32 years. Carr will no doubt take that to court, and try to have a judge overrule the City Attorney’s eccentric opinion that a Mayor is not a councilmember. But still Shawver (and others in the future) may have a good argument that there are now two separate city ordinances, one giving term limits to a mayor and one giving term limits to council.
Congratulations to Victor Barrios and John Warren, who won their seats pretty easily (and coincidentally seem to have been the preferred candidates of Mayor Shawver.)
I still don’t know anything about defeated incumbent Alyce Van, or why Shawver pulled out the big guns on her. But Cunningham duly posted a triumphant piece about her stunning defeat in this little seat in this little town, and wants us (and his paymaster) to believe that his painstaking and inconclusive work investigating her true residence may have had something to do with it:
https://ocindependent.com/2024/11/stanton-councilwoman-alyce-van-suffers-landslide-re-election-defeat/
Hi Vern, thanks for the congratulations. My race wasn’t exactly a surprise, as you had previously mentioned, but I still treated it as competitive. District 2, however, was surprising. When I spoke to both candidates, they genuinely seemed to have envisioned the opposite result until the numbers were published. However, as you somewhat mentioned in your piece, in both 2020 (D2) and 2022 (D1), the mayor’s favored candidates did not win their races among the new faces running.
Looking at current citywide trends, turnout was 60.4%, falling short of the roughly 80% seen in 2020, with 51.5% voting for Harris and 46% for Trump. Among those who voted, 44.3% were registered Democrats, 31.9% were Republicans, and 19.3% were No Party Preference (NPP).
I think Prop 36 might be particularly telling, as Stanton voters supported it at a higher rate (76.6%) than the county average of 74.8%. This aligns with some of the increasing public safety concerns the city has faced over the last few years, such as homelessness in Districts 2, 3, and 4, and prostitution primarily in Districts 1 and 2. Additionally, violent crime, which was at a historic low in 2019 when Stanton was advertised as among the safest cities, has risen by 86.3% as of 2023, according to the CA DOJ. These issues were, by far, the most common concerns I heard about while going door to door.
Why would a council seat in Stanton excite the turgid prose of Wordsmith? Who would pay him to pretend to care, or that it was even newsworthy? She must be a Democrat, else his interest in carpetbagging would be undetectable.
That was my first thought too, but even being a Democrat in such a tiny town would not arouse this much interest from Jerbal.
As I intimated in this story above, signs point to Stanton Mayor Dave Shawver engaging Matt’s services to discredit a Council member he preferred not to serve with – the sort of thing Shawver has done before.
Did you ever get a chance to read Matt’s original piece? It’s hilarious how much detective work he put into (inconclusively) questioning this woman’s residence.
Have some fun… https://ocindependent.com/2024/09/stanton-does-councilwoman-alyce-van-live-in-her-council-district/