Thanksgiving invites us to remember our American history. Part of that history is: who lived here when we arrived?
(Hat tip for this story to Octavia Tuohey, who posted about its appearing on NPR.)
A website now allows you to figure out exactly whose land you sleep on. Such land was owned communally by Indigenous tribal nations, rather than by a system of recorded deeds and land grants — and generally it was never ceded to Europeans (or was ceded only upon duress or trick.)
Of necessity, the map is an approximation in spatial dimensions and, presumably, is not necessarily going to hold for all times. (The weather and the fishing were probably better than most alternatives even way back when.) But it appears to be a consensus understanding of what nations lived where, backed up by anthropological, historical, and linguistic research. I’m borrowing the relevant potion of it for educational purposes.
Spaniards assigned their own names to the tribal nations they encountered based upon the missions they had created in their areas. Collectively, they and others are known as the “Mission Indians.” In Orange County, these were primarily the Gabrieleño (around Mission San Gabriel); the Juaneño (around Mission San Juan Capistrano), and the Luiseño (after Mission San Luis Rey de Francia in Oceanside).
Those were not the names that these called themselves, though. Disagreement exists over whether the Gabrieleño referred to themselves as the “Tongva” or the “Kizh” peoples, to the extent that they referred to the collective at all. (Tongva seems to be the predominant usage, though Wikipedia redirects to Kizh. It’s a big fight among factions.) They dominated most of LA County, including the Gateway Cities and northern slope of the Puente Hills, which border us. They also lay claim to almost all of Orange County, challenged mostly by the Juaneños, especially north of around Edinger.
The map shows that the Juaneño nation, who referred to themselves as the Acjachemen, seem to have had the upper hand the territory between the south slopes of the Puente Hills down to Edinger. (In other words, “further from the beach.”) They apparently lived in fixed villages and camps, and Wikipedia quotes (but doesn’t cite) archaeologists as asserting that they had done so for at least 10,000 years. This nation also held territory in western Riverside and Northern San Diego Counties, as well as the area in and around Cal State Long Beach. (I’d think that the Gabrieleños were still dominant, though; I learned while attending Long Beach that it was built on Puvunga, which was a Tongva-style place name, like Cahuenga, Cucamonga, Topanga, and Tujunga. It was apparently considered a significant sacred spot by both of these nations, as well as others; one meaning ascribed to it has been “The Place of Gathering.”)
The Luiseño nation referred to itself as the Payómkawichum. (Seems to be “Pah-YOM-kah-wih-CHUM.”) It was located mostly in western Riverside and northern San Diego County, mostly skirting alongside Orange County’s eastern border. But it did reach down and claim San Clemente, as did the Juaneños — and all three of the above-mentioned nations lay claim to Dana Point. (That’s not the only contentious place; the one in the graphic, somewhere in the canyons, is another.)
If you read that link just above, you will be reminded of how badly the native nations were treated and why they did deserve compensation and privileges. The Luiseños did gain federal recognition and get to put up some notable casinos, though, including Pechanga and Pala in Temecula, Soboba, Rincon, and the state’s only Harrah’s. (Does it make up for losing their land? I leave that question as an exercise for readers.)
We might want to venture outward a bit to discuss the Cahuilla to our east, the Chumash to our west, and the Serrano and Western Shoshone to our northeast — but that’s enough for one long holiday weekend. Enjoy the map, and the site hosting it, if you’re interested.
Let’s make this an Open Thread. Write about anything you want within reasonable bounds of decency, dignity, and decorum. And I mean that.
*Yep, Father Serra did a number on the Mission Indians. Got them to plant corn and
wash dishes and feed the cattle. For this they got an occasional Blessing. One day
soon we are hopeful that blacks, browns, yellows and Native Americans can indeed
be counted in this country as Basic and Necessary Americans.
We keep thinking
about Johnny Tremaine and the story about being an Indentured Servant in the Silver
Shop of the Samuel Adams family. We keep thinking that it has been less than 100
years since Women have had the right to vote in this country. We keep thinking about
the misuse of our so-called Illegal Immigrants to take the meaningless jobs that are
so important to our consumer economy and wealth for the rich. We keep thinking about
the mean spirited attitude of many in this country that either think they are superior to
others or are jealous of what others have or possess.
We keep thinking about the
great overpopulation of our planet and the many that deny that this exhale of CO2 is killing our planet. We keep thinking about the terrible pollution caused by over consumerism, bad unnecessary products that create the need for plastic bags that are killing our environment and oceans. We keep thinking about the shortage of water that is happening across the globe. We keep thinking about Homelessness and why we do not call it what it is: Blight on our Society! Ah, but then….we have to be grateful that we do have a few folks that will protect a Women’s Right to Vote her will and desires.
Thanks Greg, for a nice peek at our history! Love to all…
Misha Houser, a good friend of mine in the DPOC Central Committee, died last week. https://www.facebook.com/democraticpartyoforangecounty/posts/pfbid0F2mUvCayp1K7TtkCSCNd1L5PcpisM9z7aDRniNYM6evVEDYX4QMpRaFQbJ1RMDw9l
She was one of the people I still got along with in that group. She used to sometimes give me inside info, and also help me occasionally with navigating that.. group of people.
She told me she always valued my LOYALTY to her. I found that surprising – I never thought of “loyalty” as being high up on my list of virtues. I think there were times in ’08 and ’09 when she was being unfairly maligned, and I used to stick up for her. But that wasn’t so much me being loyal, as just trying to do the right thing. But she thought I was “loyal” so fine.
We became really good friends in 2010 when she was campaign manager for Phu Nguyen when he was running for assembly against the immigrant-bashing Republican Allan Mansoor… and living only a mile away at the time I was as often as not at that campaign office, blogging and helping out any way I could. (Phu has made a bit of a political comeback and is now on the Fountain Valley School Board.)
She liked to drink whiskey too, and, coming from Colorado Cajun stock, she once explained to me the system of grading the spiciness of Chili, from one-alarm to five-alarm. We shared a rowdy irreverent sense of humor.
She was wheelchair-bound the last few years I knew her. And took up CURLING, that weird winter Olympics sport, which I guess you can do from a wheelchair. I’m bummed out that she’s gone, and that I hadn’t seen her in a few years but we spoke often on the phone. She was gonna hire me to play piano at some party she had planned which apparently never happened.
And she spoke in support of Dan when DPOC tried to purge him She defended him for standing up for her
Yeah, she did seem to like him. Go figure.
“We both drink brown liquor,” she told me once.
She was very into supporting high tech, Google especially. I got the sense that she may have had some contracting job with them.
When I would come after “business Democrats” sucking up public funds obtained from political cronies, she would always say “what about high tech?” And I’d tell her that that was not the sort of businesses we were worried about.
Now, of course, that has changed a bit — they are worrisome, but not for being kleptos.
We got along quite well over the past few years, mostly because we hung out in some of the same social groups online. I’m trying to recall the name of her curling team; it was pretty funny.
Dan responds to this little tribute: “Misha and I were much closer [i.e. than Vern and Misha were.]” Right before admitting he didn’t know she was in hospice.
Is there anybody in the County more petty and ridiculous? Fine, Dan. You were the closest.
I always suspected that Chumley was a closest case.
Zionists ought to be careful.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-spying-american-student-activists/tnamp/
https://dailycollegian.com/2023/11/the-canary-missions-doxxing-needs-to-stop/
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-11-10/local-muslims-pro-palestinians-face-spike-in-doxxing-intimidation
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2023-11-10/local-muslims-pro-palestinians-face-spike-in-doxxing-intimidation
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-11-24/lapd-investigates-protest-at-brentwood-home-of-aipac-president-as-possible-hate-crime
When Zionists get doxxed it’s an anti-Semitic hate crime. When they dox others, they are just exercising their free speech rights. Mujajajajajajaja.
The world is full of bullies who are convinced that they’re victims. We just had one for President.
(PS Greg will take issue with your use of the word “Zionist.” And any resultant fracas will be cut short with yawns of tedium.)
Supervisor Do is having a bad week!
https://laist.com/news/housing-homelessness/orange-county-supervisor-andrew-do-homeless-services-mistrial
D’oh! They don’t come more corrupt. The Vietnamese Harry Sidhu.
Big surprise.
Everyone knows Do doesn’t even live in the District he represents and that includes Todd Spitzer. He’s not the Vietnamese Sidhu. He’s the male Janet Nguyen.
Spitzer knows of a lot of residence-lying politicians, but they’re all Republicans. And when he was campaigning at Los Amigos in 2018, he brought up Sidhu’s 2010 residence-lying as the sort of thing he’d prosecute (knowing full well that trashing Sidhu would get our crowd on his side.) But the only politician he ever went after for that was the hapless Santa Ana Democrat Roman Reyna.
OK, this has to be its own story before filing begins. Incoming, Todd!
The House finally expels the ridiculous George Santos! First thing I wanted to look up was how did Young Kim and Michelle Steel vote, so I could hang Georgie Boy around their necks?
Pero no. They both voted to expel. Tricky conniving termagants. Oh well, they’re going down anyway.
Sad to see him go. He was a great symbol of the GOPs moral vacuum.
He told some news outlet that he would wear his expulsion “as a badge of honor,” like he was FDR taunting the bankers. Ha. Didn’t look like that when he was skulking away silently.
Too easy to make fun of that guy though.
And here comes the movie.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/george-santos-movie-in-development-hbo-films-1235708893/
Another thing I might not get around to writing because I’m focused on my concert tomorrow – an open thread on the death of the evil Henry Kissinger (or, “Social-Climbing War Criminal Henry Kissinger” as Spy magazine always referred to him) with a lotta material from the late Christopher Hitchens’ “The Trial of Henry Kissinger.” Only the Good Die Young (usually) as witness Hitchens’ death at 62 and Kissinger’s at 100.
https://www.amazon.com/Trial-Henry-Kissinger-Christopher-Hitchens/dp/145552297X
They’d better drive a stake through his heart. I mean, just to make sure.
I think Biden’s acknowledgment is telling. Biden must not have been a Zionist back then. Kissinger did some funny things in Cyprus and Pakistan.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/11/30/statement-from-president-biden-on-the-passing-of-henry-kissinger/
Where was DPOC’s condemnation of Farrah Khan.
This is delayed pandering and reflects a miscalculation by Ada and her acolytes.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0NaDUFvSJY/
Arggh.. they published that? I was at the meeting where they all fought over every word of that resolution for hours. I didn’t have a vote but I was allowed to comment as a rep of the Anaheim Club; I signed off after two hours.
That sentence? “Criticizing the Israeli government is not the same as anti-Israeli,” while a crucial point (that Mirvette and I insisted on), is a suck-o sentence. In vain did I keep texting, in the Zoom chat, “To be clear, criticism of the Israeli government and policies should not be considered anti-Israeli.” I guess I’m chopped liver over there.
The timing of the resolution is right after the pro-Palestinian dustup at Irvine city council during public comments for non-agendized items last Tuesday.
https://freebeacon.com/california/orange-county-city-to-vote-on-resolution-that-accuses-israel-of-ethnic-cleansing/
In case this otherwise hasn’t reached you-
https://youtu.be/86lh3XjzZP0?si=fDQnGSB9FHXVbSA_
Original Audit doc if anyone wants to explore the weeds (Reeds ?) –
https://dw-wp-production.imgix.net/2023/12/CFTOD.pdf
Gee, Huntington Beach is zionist and anti-semiti?. These flagbearers must be evangelicals, right?? https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/video/pro-israel-rally-hits-streets-of-huntington-beach/
Its a battle of the beaches.
https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/story/2023-11-29/pro-palestine-rally-draws-dozens-to-lagunas-main-beach
Don’t look now but the Un-American Activities Committee may be reconvened to marginalize those who criticize Israel.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/6578/text?s=1&r=7
Roundup all the anti-semites!!!
Why does this blog require an email address to post? On the topic of this post, why are you avoiding the topic of the mostly white illegal settlers in Palestinian territory? Is this deflecting from the unpleasant reality of what the Jews are doing in Palestine? From the River to the Sea Palestine will be Free!
It asks for an e-mail address, but you can post without one.
Yeah those settlers are a big problem. I don’t remember us ever doing a COMPREHENSIVE rundown of all the bad things Israel’s done to Palestinians over the decades. I’m right now finishing a mammoth piece on the topic, and even in that I haven’t mentioned the settlers, who seem to be mainly in the West Bank, no?
SETTLERS GO HOME!
Yes, most of them left Gaza in 2008. They are completely controlling the West Bank and stealing land from Muslims and Christians alike! NOT all Jews are bad, and not all Jews are Zionists but all Zionists are bad. Did you know Bibi Netanyahu’s parents are Polish? His real last name is Milosky. Arab Jews are not the ones oppressing, it is the European settlers. Do you know Palestinians cannot move freely in their own country? The IDF has checkpoints everywhere. It is so brutal.
I’m Jewish, and highly critical of Israeli policy (especially now), and I favor a two-state solution with a viable and self-sufficient Palestinian state.
(By the way, anyone who favors a two-state solution is thereby a Zionist. I want a safe and recognized Jewish homeland. And a Palestinian one. These desires don’t conflict.)
Obviously, both the present Israeli regime and the bullying happening here at home make life hell for my kind of Zionist. But I’m not giving up the term to those assholes.
Icymi. Eastman CA bar case was submitted. Judge has until March to reach decision.
https://www.ocregister.com/2023/12/06/a-romp-through-ex-trump-attorney-john-eastmans-hail-mary-pass-to-save-law-license/amp/
I was not able to reply to Greg’s comment. Are you an Arab or Middle East Jew? Why should White invaders or Black invaders or anyone not native to the region have any claim to the area that is Palestine or Judea? Where in the Old Testament is Israel called by that name? Israel is the son of Abraham. It’s a TRIBE. You spend too much time with the right-wing loonies in Huntington Beach.
What makes you think that Jews are not native to the region? Jews have had a continuous presence there for millennia — as have Palestinians.
Honestly, I’m beginning to think that you’re a plant coming here to demand that Jews are not native to the region and donut deserve any sort of homeland precisely because it fuels Jewish paranoia about physical extirpation. Are you working for Netanyahu?
Ummm, no,not trolling for Netanyahu. What a weird thing to say. I just didn’t think White Jews have a claim to settle there. Arab Jews yes. Do you know why Jews are exterminating Palestinians? It’s because in order to have a ‘real’ Jewish state, it must be 2/3 Jews, or it can’t be recognized as a Jewish state. IsraHELL knows this, that’s why they imported 100,000 Jews from former Soviet countries. The problem is the land they are ‘giving’ away to the settlers is not theirs to give! It belongs to the Palestinian people.
You’re like a small bit of virus injected into a host in order to bring forth a stronger immune response — in this case, immunity to dealing rationally with the question of how to response the Israeli Palestinian conflict. You may not be wittingly supporting Netanyahu in helping to build this immunity by standing against the all Jews — Sephardic, Ashkenazi, and other derived — to have a secure homeland somewhere in their ancestral land, but that’s exactly what you’re doing, and he’s glad for it.
I completely agree with you about the settlements. I view them as homes that will be given to Palestinian families as part of settling accounts in a peace treaty.
I don’t know of any source whatsoever for the claim that only a land with 2/3 Jewish population can be recognized as a Jewish state. Please post your source for it, and your source’s source if possible. Some minor Jewish sects have some weird beliefs, but they do not speak for the majority of Jews. The Jews from the Soviet Union were being cruelly persecuted by their government(s) — and that’s why Israel wanted them to be able to emigrate. As Cuban emigrees will tell you, a country having its borders closed to exit is not generally a good sign.
Umm illegal Jewish immigration post Balfour declaration is one of the forces that helped cause the creation of Israel. Them there ashkenazis weren’t natives.
And, Armenians have been there for more than a millennia too. So what’s your point.
A land without a people for a people without a land. Pretty Genocidal statement.
Yeah, because there was no indigenous population in the ottoman Palestine between 1517 and 1948. For most of this period except the the decades leading up to the formation of Israel, the Jewish population was roughly 3%.
I said that Jews lived in Palestine for millennia, not that all Jews who eventually were in Israel at the time of its founding in 1947 lived there. Yes, they defied the anti-Jewish laws of the British protectorate. So?
If Jews had had a homeland like Armenians did and do, this would not be a necessary conversation. Yes, millions of people died in the Armenian genocide, over time, but I know of no systematic attempt to destroy all persons of Armenian ancestry everywhere. For Jews — and for non-Jews with even a drop of Jewish blood, as the saying goes — it was a reality, the brunt of it occurring over just four years.
Were they scared? Sure. Did they have good cause for fear? Absolutely. Did it morally justify kicking Palestinians off of their land — no, but it did justify trying to reach some modus vivendi with Palestinians. Palestinians, understandably, resisted that. 75 years of alternating hot and cold terror ensued.
The “a land without a people” statement is absolutely false and morally wrong. We agree on that. Is it “genocidal”? About to the same extent as similar sentiments in the U.S., Canada, Australia, South Africa, et al. are. If Israelis decide to make the full aspiration territory of Greater Israel Palestinian-free, then definitely. And you could scale that back a long ways and the answer would still be yes.
I think that Netanyahu’s policies fit within that “yes” territory. But I also think that there are reasonable positions that Jewish Israelis could take that are not genocidal — although they would require Palestinians scaling back their aspirations if those include eliminating any Jewish controlled territory — and that is the goal I want to see pursued.
Both groups had legitimate moral principles on their side. They could not be reconciled that long ago. Maybe it’s more possible now. If I believed in an intercessionist god, that’s what I’d pray for.
What really bothers me is that you really do come across here like a Jew-hater, apparently (from your other comments) due to Israel’s cooperation with your sworn enemy of Turkey. (As I’ve said before, I avoid the term “Anti-Semite” because it robs Arabs of their Semitic background.) You’re entitled hold and express this opinion — and I’m happy to give you a forum to “show your ass”, as African-American culture puts it — but it’s a bad opinion and a foolish one to express. Enjoy the fruits you’ve plucked from the Tree of Miscreance.
Forgot to add: debating the legitimacy of a secure Jewish homeland existing to some extent in the Palestinian territory is playing into Netanyahu’s hands: it will turn even the most dovish Jews (except for some messianic zealots) against you. It would be like saying that the Azerbaijanis deserve to govern not only Nagorno-Karabakh, but ALL of Armenia. Doing that would shut down any possible conversation. Armenia and what I will call “Lesser Israel” — lesser but recognized and safe — are “facts on the ground”; only their borders and relations with neighbors are reasonably up for discussion.
I might say that why you are helping Netanyahu prevail in the battle over U.S. public opinion over Israel’s actions is a mystery — except that I expect that when you view him you see in some ways a kindred spirit.
I haven’t said anything untrue or Jewish hatey. Kismir toochas.
You make flimsy arguments based on a weak grasp of facts.
For instance, Armenia has been a country for approximately 35 years over the past 125 years and have only continuously existed for the past 32. You come off as ignorant not stupid because you should know better. There is Jew hatred In Israel. Go fight it there.
Folks like you talk on everyone and everything and then when someone talks about Israel, they are Jew-hating. Armenians are stakeholders in the Holy Land also. Get over it.
They should have drawn a red line around Netanyahu at least 15 years ago.
Armenia may have only been an independent country for 35 years (I’ll just trust you on that), but it has been AN ARMENIAN HOMELAND for one hell of a lot longer. The latter is what I was talking about, if you would deign to read and understand my word before replying.
I am FINE with people criticizing Israel, meaning Israeli policy past through future. But I’m against saying that there should be no secure and recognized homeland in west of the Jordan, both for the practical reason that it shuts down all discussion and cooperation and the moral reason that should be entitled to one. That the burden of accommodating them falls on Palestinians is a misfortune to them — but two peoples want the same land. There can and must be good faith negotiation. And, I’ll argue against Netanyahu, it should be generous to those who were there prior to Israel’s founding. Not fake generous; not generous with fine print or poison pills. REAL generous, in exchange for recognition and peace.
As for your conclusory denial of Jew-hating: what’s your understanding from reading what I wrote of how I justified that assertion?
I’m an islamophobe too. Yeah. Right. Whatever.
The genocide of Armenians includes their cleansing from their ancestral homelands to this day. It wasn’t some moment In time in a land from long ago.
It happened and is happening elsewhere Than what is currently Turkey.
Umm sorry but Zionists have been bolstering Turkey.
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/erdogans-double-standard-on-hamas-reflects-his-antisemitism-and-racism/
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/jewish-leaders-who-embraced-erdogan-should-resign/
https://www.aei.org/foreign-and-defense-policy/rabbis-refusal-to-consider-renewed-armenian-genocide-shameful/