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Take a look at this flyer below. Click on it for more detail. I just want you to see what I went through to get you this story. The Orange County Public Affairs Association, at the Alta Vista Country Club, for Christ’s sake. Jill Kanzler! Matt Cunningham! Lucy Dunn! Kris Murray! I have a proud history of not mingling with these folks at these events. But I knew I had to hear 4th District Supervisor candidates Tim Shaw and Doug Chaffee in their native element. I even ponied up the sixty bucks, which is more than this blog makes in Google Ads some months. You’re welcome.
I’ll give them this at least: They didn’t try to stop me from videotaping, so these two are on record (Sorry that I missed Doug’s opening statement; basically he believes in good government and quality of life.) The most they did to mess with my videotaping was to serve lunch at the same time, which is why these two videos are better LISTENED TO than WATCHED. Console yourselves, friends, that the two contenders are not much to look at. (Tim does NOT take photos with his glasses on, although I’ve tried to convince him that WITH spectacles he looks like a serious but likable wonk; WITHOUT, more like a garden gnome.)
So much in common…
As my new friend Jordan Graham of The Register pointed out, it was often hard to discern much difference between the two gentlemen – especially on matters that actually fall in the wheelhouse of the Board of Supervisors, but on other things as well. A few examples:
- They both bitch about how much money the state is wasting on “the bullet train” and all the great things that could be done with that money instead … but there’s nothing they could actually do as Supervisors to stop that boondoggle OR re-direct the funds, so it was pretty much sound and fury.
- On homelessness, they both look forward eagerly to helping implement AB 448, the recently passed bill enabling an OC Housing Trust Fund. They also boasted how far their cities have come in almost getting a start nearly satisfying Judge Carter‘s demands for shelter beds – which is not far at all, thanks in great part to these men’s foot-dragging NIMBY-pleasing votes.
- And they both agree that way too much county money is being wasted on the Dana Point Harbor (hello Zenger) and more generally on the rich spoiled greedy South County. I imagine that is a traditional Northern song of lament, much like this one:
The few Democrats who were there chewed me out over my last Chaffee piece, in which I tore him several new ones. “You’re just helping Tim Shaw,” they snapped, “and he is just the errand boy of Bob Huff, and HE has been the most terrible privatizer and outsourcer in the County!” And then they turned away from me at a slight angle, radiating coldness at me from their right shoulder and clucking their tongue. Well, since I’ve already criticized Doug plenty, let me start here with:
Things that make me (almost) prefer Doug to Tim.
Outsourcing: Tim as a garden-variety Republican speaks of that as a magic bullet, guaranteed to be cheaper and more efficient (“LEAN and MEAN,” LOL.) In Republican circles this is an unquestioned truism, although of course it’s bullshit as Righeimer’s Costa Mesa has shown – it’s more a pretext for profiteering and graft. I agree with Doug’s appreciation of, and attention he pays to, public workers, which he emphasized several times and is also borne out in his record. (I was reminded of what my mentor Gus Ayer told me about Bushala and his short-lived 2012 revolution right before Gus died: “I love most of what Tony and Travis are doing up there, but they need to spend more time visiting their city employees at work, talking to them, and seeing what they actually do and how they do it – then they’ll be less eager to farm that work out to outsiders with no connection to the city.”)
- We want CHANGE in our current dismal Board of Supervisors, even if just a little? When asked if he had any criticisms of them, Tim responded with a witticism: “You’re asking me, ‘Tim, please criticize the people who support you!'”, to much laughter from the crowd. He could only come up with two quibbles – they bicker with each other too much, and too publicly. (Hey, I think that’s the only thing they do good!) And “the homeless on the riverbed was not our finest hour.” For a second I thought he might have been admitting that, pushed mainly by Spitzer, they threw the homeless off way too quickly with nowhere for them to go. But no, he was saying that “it should never have gotten that out of hand” – i.e., they shoulda been thrown off years ago.
- Doug, conversely, asked “How much time do I have?” – also to crowd laughter. He went on to ding the Board for their constant abuse and unappreciation of county workers, wants an end to “top-down investigations that never go anywhere,” and promises greater access and “an open door.”
- One point Doug made that I liked was that he is 70 fucking years old, has no ambitions for higher office, and being a good Supervisor would be the apex of his career. How long has it been since we had a Supervisor who could say that? That building in Santa Ana is nothing but a glorified springboard. Three of our current state Senators were nurtured in, and flopped up out of, that fifth-floor spawning pool. And it’s currently occupied by time-serving strivers for Congress and DA. Does anyone think young Shaw, having been kept down so long, by cruel circumstances, his light covered by a bushel in La Habra, would be any exception to this rule?
No criticisms of THIS bunch coming from Tim!
- It would be nice to have ONE Supervisor who supports our Sanctuary State law, SB-54. They say that Doug shone at the Fullerton SB54-bashing council meeting, in defense of our Sanctuary State law, and effectively quashed that xenophobic move in his town. On the other hand Shaw, like all the Republican BOS incumbents, unquestioningly accepts the canard that SB-54 unsafely ties law enforcement’s hands. (Really a pretend article of faith that allows the GOP to keep Mexican haters loyal to the party.) UPDATE: Tim tells me he “understands the arguments of both sides” but doesn’t think a state should be defying federal law – that’s a safe way to oppose SB-54 and keep your fellow Republicans happy while not appearing racist.
- Although Doug’s actual achievements on homelessness are scant at best (okay, keeping the Armory open a few more months), he has obviously been paying attention to the problem, as he spoke urgently of the high number of Fullerton college students living in their cars, and emphatically wants to force the Fairview facility open in spite of Costa Mesa NIMBYs.
On the other hand…
Things that make me (almost) prefer Tim to Doug.
NUMBER ONE, Tim’s overall record of trustworthiness and honesty, as contrasted to Doug’s lack of same which I’ve previously documented. And his record of stopping a wasteful kleptocratic project on the OCTA board – the Disney Streetcar – with three other honest Republicans (Tait, Moorlach, Lalloway) when that was still an unpopular move (and probably led to Pringle siccing Kring on him in last June’s primary.)
- As a member of the Foothill / Eastern TCA, Chaffee sounds like he would go along meekly with the juggernaut of the 214 extension into San Clemente (which he wrongly thinks is necessary as long as “environmental concerns” are allayed.) Shaw seems much more aware of and sympathetic to the objections of San Clemente (“The town is on fire!”).
- Tim, with his six years on the OCTA – vice-chair this year and probably chair next year whether he wins Supe or not – understands transportation better than Doug. Even though Tim helped kill the Disney Streetcar for many good reasons, he has been supportive of the Santa Ana / Garden Grove one going from the SA metrolink station to Harbor. For one thing, it has managed to get a lot more state and federal funds; for another the right-of-ways the county has had to buy have been much more affordable. Doug painted it as a great waste, and aims to re-direct the funds to road improvements, but Tim contends that’s not legally possible. (Doug’s idea of an underground OC subway also sounded great to me but Tim tells me it’d be WAY unaffordable.)
- Tim had a hand, from his chairmanship of the ACCOC, in fashioning AB-448, and understands the concerns we at this blog have with JPA’s. When he has a hand, if elected Supervisor, in implementing it, he’s happy to hear from us and meet with us.
- I’m wary of candidates supported by Fire and Police Unions, unions who are primarily after higher pensions and benefits; and less accountability in the case of the police. The Firefighters have cast their lot with Chaffee; the Sheriffs are still hedging their bets (they seem to be focusing most of their effort into electing more-of-the-same Don Barnes.)
CONCLUSION.
Since I agree with a more of what Doug SAYS than what Tim says, and my only problem is with Doug’s reliability, I made myself this deal: Remember how he had promised Fullerton homeless advocates that if the Pathways to Hope Permanent Supportive Housing plan came up before the council again he would reverse himself and vote in favor of it? And remember how two of his colleagues (whom I wish I could name) responded pshaw, he’ll make sure it doesn’t come before the council again so he doesn’t have to take an unpopular vote before the election?
Well, I made myself a deal: If Doug DID keep his promise to vote for Pathways, I would vote for Doug. Not an hour went by before I found out the cynics were right – that issue is NOT going to come back to council before November 6. ( I still need to find out if Doug had anything to do with pushing that off.)
AND THEN not an hour went by before Doug’s carpetbagging council-candidate wife Paulette was caught by security cameras stealing campaign signs that were in opposition to her – a staggering and illegal show of entitlement which is now being investigated by Fullerton police! (Will Doug deny this? Make excuses? Condemn his wife’s actions? Inquiring minds are agog!)
So here. If you are a Republican who loves the current Board of Supervisors, wants more of the same, and unquestioningly believes in OC GOP articles of faith like privatization, outsourcing, opposing sanctuary … then you should probably vote for Tim Shaw.
On the other hand if you are a Democrat who will sleep a little happier knowing that we finally have somebody on the Board who is a member of our Party … then by all means vote for Doug Chaffee.
Me, I’m just relieved to look at my ballot and see that, sure enough, there IS a space for me to write in Cynthia Aguirre. And feel clean.
Update 10/10: Fuck it. I’m with Shaw.
I write In is a vote for Tim Shaw. There were profound difference between the candidates including as you note that Tim Shaw would outsource all government to the private sector putting profit over people.
^^^ False and hyperbole.
Did Shaw’s wife steal campaign signs? Just wondering.
I’d call it more of an abstention.
But seriously — DO we still have write-ins in the general election other than in the race for President? I had thought that we didn’t, but it’s hard to argue with Vern’s picture.
“…Tim Shaw would outsource all government to the private sector putting profit over people.”
Dear Flo,
When did Vern “note” this? And when did Shaw ever say it? Here’s when: never.
We have the tapes, here on the story. Tim was very enthusiastic about outsourcing in general.
Then we have whatever the hell I wrote, I think I was fair, what did I say. Oh yeah … Tim thinks of it as a magic bullet.
And then we have Florice’s angry hyperbole. He never said “all” or close to it.
Being enthusiastic in general does not equate with actually outsourcing anything.
It equates with a willingness to consider the idea and include it as an option where appropriate.
You two need to step away from the ledge and focus on the very real problem in this race.
“Being enthusiastic in general does not equate with actually outsourcing anything.”
Oh, well if it’s just a pose, then maybe I can live with it.
I did mistake Florice’s hyperbole with Vern’s less hyper hyperbole. That’s not a lie. Nor do I lie when saying that my concern over what seems like a penchant for it — which I think is a fair reaction to the “magic bullet” take from Vern — makes me much more averse to voting for him. I’m not a total absolutist on this issue, but such proposals I’ve seen generally seem to rooted in enriching cronies.
Right. Never said “all.”
There are all sorts of offices performed by public employees that need not be. Unless one considers government ot be nothing but a jobs program with amazing benefits.
Tim Shaw is in favor of short term rentals which will directly affect residents living in county areas in Anaheim, Tustin, etc who want a ban in county areas
I Agree with you that Cynthia Aguirre is a Better and very knowledgeable Candidate But it will be between shaw,and Chafee and the board of supervisors race is about as important as it gets. Between what you wrote and what I know I will be voting for Chaffee and wishing Cynthia aguirre was on the ballot.
“…the board of supervisors race is about as important as it gets.”
Not really. The Board votes in lock step 95% of the time (or more) with staff recommendations and with each other.
When Correa was on the BoS he was completely indistinct from his Republican pals.
Lou Correa. Isn’t that the politician who endorsed Tim Shaw? And Tony Rackauckas? And Don Barnes? And Mitch Caldwell?
We need more coverage of this ^^^…
Of what, of Lou’s bad endorsements?
What’s the point, he’s in Congress as long as he wants to be.
Maybe just to take away from those endorsements’ mystique, especially when they bestow “bipartisanship.”
Tom Daly’s endorsements are just as bad, and as far as I can tell, identical.
Tim boasted to me with wide eyes of the Lou and Tom endorsements. I said, “Dude, they endorse Republicans all the time. I think they just endorse whoever they think has the best chance of winning.”
Worst Democrats around, Lou and Tom. People shouldn’t be pointing at me.
Vern, the worst? Really?
Well, there you go Chaffee and Brandman. Vern approves.
Worst ELECTED Democrats, Ryan, I think was Vern’s point. Jordan isn’t one for now. (I’d still include Solorio on the list. Pulido too, but I don’t recall him endorsing outside of his kingdom.)
Well, I kind of meant, WORST at being loyal to their party.
Write for us, Nate!
Seriously — DID Correa endorse SHAW?
I’m waiting for some apologies for critics of my refusal to endorse Correa.
Yeah, and we can also go back to Kris Murray and Gayle Eastman.
Vern, I feel strongly that you should accept ads from either or both of them — but at a 900% markup.
So you’re punting. We should all be so bold
I think I gave everyone reasons to vote for or against either candidate. I’m just one vote.
I might still flip one way or the other, but not real enthusiastically.
Nope. You punted.
You were given a choice between ethics and malleable policy claims and you chose neither.
Not impressed like, Vern. You should be basing you vote on what Tim does and what Doug does. What Doug says is not relevant.
But you leave out the part that I disagree with a lot of what Tim DOES.
Like boondoggle slaying?
Come on, Vern. If you wanna see good conservatives run against good liberals, you gotta back a good conservative running against a bad liberal.
What liberal?
The thing that I don’t think I can get past is Shaw’s supporting outsourcing ALL county government functions (or close to it).
I know that this gives Zenger and Ryan a warm happy feeling, but I’m sorry — I don’t necessarily trust the government, but in OC I think that I trust it more than I do private industry. (You did mention boondoggles — private money tends to motivate them.)
I’m still waiting to find out which of them has endorsement of police associations — or, worse, independent expenditures.
That’s just false, Greg.
Not going to waste anyone’s time debating a lie.
“Doug’s idea of an underground OC subway also sounded great to me but Tim tells me it’d be WAY unaffordable.”
Great? Why?
Probably “moving people around efficiently while minimizing carbon emissions” or something like that.
I forget, are you one of the people who think that “anthropogenic global warming” is just some sort of commie plot, rather than a serious concern about the future? Or do you think that people should not able to band together, using government, to help ameliorate it?
Maybe one can consider government and non-government plans on their actual merits rather than through ideological blinkers, right?
There are more than two choices you know.
Ryan, don’t you imagine that a subway line in Orange County is so inherently ludicrous that it’s not even an intelligent fake issue?
Chaffee clearly has zero idea of the per mile cost of building such a thing, or is completely unconcerned about the cost of government in general. Probably both. The cost would be upwards of $800,000,000 per mile, and for what?
A subway is just an underground street car, plus the attendant problems of constructing access points along the way. And it will cost five times more than a trolley.
Yes.
Even suggesting the idea is completely ludicrous.
I didn’t take a position on it. I was explaining what Vern pretty obviously meant.
*Tim Shaw is a Trumpster that supports Short Term Rentals?
You look in the Dictionary and find his photo under “a Broken Clock”?
Nuff…said!
SPEAKING OF WHICH…
Is it not true that Jesus and Jennifer voted in favor of Pathways to Hope, and Doug killed it?
And here he is on the Voice of OC saying that he “doubts he can get three votes for it before the election.”
https://voiceofoc.org/2018/10/nonprofit-withdraws-fullerton-homeless-housing-proposal/
Is this as bad as it sounds? Is he saying he can’t wring a vote out of HIMSELF before his election?
No one voted on the project.
If you were promised a vote at any time that’s seriously problematic as it concerns a prejudicial view of land use, including potential general plan and zoning changes.
Actually my Fullerton homeless advocate friends are telling me there WAS a vote (oh they gave me a date, I’ll find it again if I have to.) This was when there was a mob of angry NIMBYs. Jesus and JF abstained. Doug voted no with the Repubs. It still seems wrong for Doug to now bellyache about not being able to get the votes before the election, when he was the one voting no.
That’s not exactly correct.
This is in reference to an exclusive agreement to negotiate a project, which isn’t the same thing as voting on a project.
The agreement from Council made during the June meeting was to have the developer confer with residents before bringing the exclusive agreement back to council, which is perfectly reasonable.
Pushing this forward without talking at all to the residents (would have been the June ENA) would have been a very bad call.
I teach at Fullerton College and am a member of a public employees’ union. Although my union does things that make my life immeasurably better than it would otherwise have been, I’m strongly against electing people who are in bed with public employees’ unions. It’s nothing personal. Some of them are fine people and do a good job in office. (E.g., Joanne Fawley seems very smart and capable, and I happen to know her a little because she lives a block away from me and helped me with rescuing a stray dog. But I didn’t vote for her and never will, because she’s so closely associated with teachers’ unions.)
My previous impression of Chaffee as a tool of public employee unions has been reinforced by a flyer that we received from his campaign, probably sent to our address because they know that my wife and I are both members of teachers’ unions. It says, “It’s no accident thousands of Orange County employees stand behind Mayor Douhg Chaffee for supervisor. He stands with us and we stand with him!” That final sentence should be pretty darn chillling for any taxpayer.
By the way, this is my first time posting again after someone who runs this blog mistakenly conflated my identity with my wife’s and posted a nastygram telling me/her/us that we were evil sock puppets. I guess it’s a somewhat understandable mistake because my wife was posting anonymously and we were posting from the same IP address. I did post after that explaining what was going on, but nobody seems to have noticed or responded. An apology would be nice. My wife is more offended than I was, and she no longer visits the site.
I don’t manage or own the blog, but I do write here from time to time.
I apologize for the insult, however it was issued.
Welcome back to the blog.
Wasn’t me either. Welcome Ben. Apologies to the wife.
Ben,
I finally got a chance to look up your (and your wife’s) previous posts: anyone who wants to read them can do so by entering “full-throated pro-Jammal” in the search box and look up and down a little.
You’re right that I got the sense that sock puppetry was occurring because your wife — and I did think it was probably you, and statistically it was likely to be you but happened to be an exception to the rule — was raising a new and significant attack on a candidate just before the primary. I tend to be especially vigilant at those times. In retrospect, without recalling what other evidence I had at hand at the time, my reply — which was online, not in an email, so Vern presumably did see it — was too harsh. I apologize to you both — policing against sock puppetry is difficult and like everyone else I can and do make mistakes, but not policing against would in my opinion be even worse.
I don’t see a comment from you in response to mine, but I did see a fair — truculent, but understandably so — comment in response from your wife. I didn’t respond to it (though I wish I had) probably because it was the day before the primary election and I was absolutely frantic. I’d like to extend an invitation to her through you — while I have her email address, I’m not going to use it — to comment here freely between now and the election (and beyond, if she’d like), and I will try to keep in mind that you are two different people. I hope that you will not be a stranger here either.