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O joy! 538’s honcho Nate Silver has discovered “the hidden importance of the Bernie Sanders voter” — that we are largely non-Democratic and that those who aren’t Democratic are not much disposed to support Hillary Clinton — which is a bit like Columbus “discovering” the hidden continent of North America. (“Hey, you dope — a bunch of us were already here! We’ve known about it all along!”)
Does Nate take this in the appropriate direction, asking whether Hillary or Bernie would be more able to cobble together a winning coalition against Trump? NO HE DOES NOT, FEEBLE-MINDED OBSERVER! He doesn’t ask that question even belatedly, but just points out that to win the election, Clinton needs to win them.
Thus, citing Clinton’s reasonably strong general election numbers among self-identified Democrats — she had the support of 87 percent of Democrats in a recent NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll in her matchup against Trump, for instance, and 83 percent in a Fox News poll that showed her behind Trump nationally — may miss her problems among liberal-leaning, Sanders-voting independents. In the Fox News poll, only 30 percent of independents went for Clinton, and in the SurveyMonkey poll, just 36 percent did. But both surveys showed a large pool of undecided independents, potentially the Sanders voters that YouGov identified.
Thus do we Democrats hurtle, down through a tunnel paved with hubris, towards the pit of not being able to defeat Trump — not because DEMOCRATS won’t cooperate, but because INDEPENDENTS DO NOT ACTUALLY PREFER DEMOCRATS. (Nor do they prefer Republicans. The hint that you should already know this is in the name “Independent.”) And our wise Democratic superdelegates — who still have not been able to figure out that the flight from the major parties and deflating turnout are REAL AND RELATED THINGS — won’t be the ones the grasp the significance of this data because their personal careers depend on their inability to do so.
So that means that ultimately our only hope is that HILLARY HERSELF realizes as the convention nears and the fall campaign commences that she’s not going to win with Berniecrats alone — but will only win with Berniependents (a group in which I include third-party members, and maybe even Trump-hating Republicans) — as well. Not only that, but she’ll have to realize that crackpot theories about what will appeal to Bernie independents — “why, surely they’ll love a good-looking young minority male like Cory Booker or Julian Castro!” — are stupid and self-defeating. In other words, we’re probably doomed.
Do you want to know who Berniependents want on the ticket? The DNC, if it represented the party rather than the Clinton campaign, should be polling like hell –asking Berniecrats and ESPECIALLY Berniependents — what it would take to get them over the hump of revulsion required to cast a vote for Hillary.
For me, Sanders or Warren as VP, combined with her plodding a nice moderate Democratic course for the next 5-1/2 months, would probably do it — but then I’m a Berniecrat. Are Berniependents willing to go for Hillary, at ANY price — and if they don’t, do they go Trump, or go home (either to their third party or to their rec room sofa on Election Day)? The time left to find out is passing quickly!
If Democratic Party regulars would rather lose with Hillary than win with Bernie, the responsibility is on them. It’s not on Bernie to stop criticizing Hillary (because then of course no one will figure out that they still have the same fixed beliefs that they’ve had about her all along); it’s not on voters who aren’t Democrats refusing to act like loyal Democrats. It’s that Democrats will have become as passionately fantasy driven and anti-empirical as our most florid stereotypes of Republicans.
You know who would be a good person to make that case? Nate Silver. Unfortunately, he has turned out to be a hidden moron.
*We love Bernie….and we predict Bernie will be Hillary’s running mate. Some guy called C-Span Washington Journal two days ago to say: “Flip the Vote! Hillary for VP!” We disagree Dr. D., What we do say is that DT will have to “self-destruct”. Much as in the 1955 Mad Reader, when Superduperman confronted Captain Marbel. The classic line was: “There is only one that can defeat Captain Marbels! Captain Marbels!” said Superduperman. And so it is here. We will say this however: Captain Marbels had to be picked on constantly to finally break down and unleash that right cross to his own head. Frustration is DT’s worst attribute. He gets frustrated, bored and totally lacks patience. Having some of those same failings ourselves we totally understand where DT is coming from. Not so Presidential, Not so Logical, Not so willing to really Negotiate and Not so willing to apologize. All failings of a great leader. But what do we know? .
Bernie votes are not “independents” in the sense Greg describes.
The crucial distinction between Hillary voters and Bernie voters isn’t class, and it’s not really ideology. It’s age. Hillary vs Bernie is a straight generational divide within the “Progressive” Movement.
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/19/11649054/bernie-sanders-working-class-base
That link is pretty number-heavy, so give Greg some time to process it.
While you’re waiting for Greg to count on his fingers, consider this innumerate inanity from Greg.:
“INDEPENDENTS DO NOT ACTUALLY PREFER DEMOCRATS. (Nor do they prefer Republicans. The hint that you should already know this is in the name “Independent.”) ”
Completely False.
Extensive research shows that “independent” voters have strong partisan affiliations in their actual voting behavior. True, “independents” seem evenly divided between the parties, but that is because the “independent” category includes both Republican “independents” and Democratic “independents.”
Oversimplifying, a declared Democrat or a Republican will vote predictably in November. An “independent” may choose to not vote or to vote “fringe.” But if an independent does vote for a party, it’s a pretty safe bet s/he will vote for the same party s/he voted for previously. Partisan “switches” by stated independents are shockingly rare (about 10% in one study I saw, but I can’t find a link).
The actual number of truly independent voters, better described as “persuadable voters”, has been shrinking for years. Here is an example form 2012. I chose an article with few numbers in the hope Greg can understand it. (example: “the actual share of voters nationally who are up for grabs is probably between just 3 percent and 5 “)
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/us/politics/pursuing-the-elusive-swing-voter.html?_r=0
Bernie voters aren’t “independents.” In broad strokes, they are the kids of college-educated Democrats. The income numbers that make Berners resemble Trumpistas is an artifact that young people make less than people in the prime of their working years. There is little demographic reason to believe that a Bernie voter will chose Trump over Hillary. Analysis of the fall election clearly show Hillary beating the pants of Trump, with or without Bernie’s voters. (To be fair, Bernie would also be favored against Trump)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/05/02/republicans-have-a-massive-electoral-map-problem-that-has-nothing-to-do-with-donald-trump/
http://www.270towin.com/maps/clinton-trump-electoral-map
Hillary’s key concern about Bernie is discouraging him from making a third party run. He has said he won’t.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/26/politics/donald-trump-bernie-sanders-independent/
Moving along with further examples of Greg’s inability to understand numbers:
“our wise Democratic superdelegates … won’t be the ones the grasp the significance of this data ”
This would seem to be the most relevant data:
Votes Pledged Delegates:
Hillary 12,989,134 1,768
Bernie 9,957,889 1,494
Hillary has 56% of the votes and 54% of the Pledged Delegates. Is Greg suggesting the super-delegates go against the will of the people?
or is he just that innumerate?
Sorry for the delay in posting; comments with this many links go into moderation.
I am suggesting that superdelegates vote for the candidate better equipped to beat Trump — and that is Bernie.
I’ll respond to the rest of your screed later as time permits. I don’t take the slams personally, as I suspect you’re just doing what you think you must to avoid electing someone like Trump. I am doing the same, because I think that what you’re doing will backfire.
Libertarians? Yeah, whatever happened to that happy band scaring both parties for a while? Harry Brown is gone – and Lyndon Larouche doesn;t qualify. As prior American Independent voters for several years…we can honestly say that we only voted for Ross the Boss Twice and Bo Gritz once. Green Party? We love Ralph Nadar, but he really didn’t have a chance. Ralph looks pretty good to us right now. Can’t believe that Rudy Guiliani went Trumpster on us. Disappointing when we thought Rudy was a true Moderate Republican. OK, Tyler dude your rap sounds pretty good to us and we agree that should Bernie be picked by Hillary …….it will be a Slam Trump night in November.
Tyler, you need to turn a few pages on your calendar. It isn’t 2012 anymore.