Does Kokesh see himself as George Washington?
Forget about blowing up M80s for the Fourth this year — that’s so last decade! Why not plan your family vacation and drive (you can’t bring firearms on a plane) and participate in the Open Carry March on Washington. I never heard of it until I saw someone invited me to the Facebook event. I have no idea who thought I would enjoy such a thing. The event is the brainchild of Adam Kokesh — His motto is “Adam vs. the Man”… reminds me of the 60s “man” slogan, but back then it was all about Make Love not War and today it sounds more like War! It does sounds like it will be an action-packed, family event where everyone including 6 year old Bobbie can bring his loaded semi-automatic weapon.
Kokesh is a former Marine who was discharged in 2007 for violating military’s code for engaging in political activity while in uniform — he protested the Iraq war. That sounds normal enough, lots of soldiers come back from war wanting to end it. But soon after that he started a radical, anti-government radio show when the Tea Party became popular and now he seems to be pushing for well…you decide — from his tweet a couple days ago…
When the government comes to take your guns, you can shoot government agents, or submit to slavery.
— Adam Kokesh (@adamkokesh) May 3, 2013
According to the photo on the left…or his Match.com bio, he is also a member of Slaveuprising.com. It’s interesting he adds dancer to his photo — does that mean in his free time, he is available for bachelorette parties as well?
This is the agenda (so far) the day of the event:
Those sound fighting words to me. What do you think? Does Kokesh represent the views of your average NRA member?
It’s been less than 72 hours since Jim Porter was elected NRA President and it appears that the bullets are already flying…at least on social media. I mentioned in my earlier post about Porter’s YouTube video where he claimed the “Civil War being a Northern aggression,” and that his rhetoric just might fuel some real trouble “right here in River City.” Maybe this march will be the starting point. I wonder what the Bush administration would have done if such an event were planned? I do remember the Tea Party Town Hall meetings back when Obama was running for re-election — there were a few who brought loaded weapons. I am curious how many will actually show up to Washington. Kokesh is hoping for at least 1,000.
My last story about Porter got some heat from at least one reader saying that I was guilty of name calling 1 million gun owners — I hope that person goes over to the OCMW Facebook event, signs up and talks some sense into the numerous gun nuts already spewing unsubstantiated nonsense — making all gun owners look like Good Ole Boy’ Yahoos or at the very least Barney Fife. I know there are responsible gun owners, but the Yahoos are taking over social media. If responsible gun owners like the 80% who belong to the NRA — who are in favor of background checks, want to be taken seriously — they need to speak up.
What if Kokesh looked Muslim? Would radical pro-gun groups support his views or demand he be sent to GITMO? Would Fox News dedicate their airwaves, non-stop to complain that Washington is not doing enough to protect Americans from terrorists, homegrown or foreign? Whose to say that some individual with serious mental issues, decides this is his chance to go down in history by opening fire on law enforcement? Will this start a gun battle the likes of some Wild West movie? Are the radical, online gun supporters ready for that? I seriously doubt it. What do you think?
Looks to me like Mr. Kook-esh is planning for this to fail, for his group to be turned back or arrested. Then he can go on spouting that “free people are not welcome in Washington.”
No, Mr. Kook-esh, free people with loaded guns slung across their bodies are not welcome in Washington. See the difference?
4+ million and counting Inge who represent over 10 million+ firearms owners nation wide.
This is NOT an NRA event!
You can fly on an airplane with a firearm.
I don’t think the firearms will be loaded, at least that’s the usual setup for these things.
I am not in favor of such public disply, it only pisses people off who don’t understand it and isn’t furthering the cause in my mind.
BTW Inge, you have NOT addressed my concerns about NICS, or is it acceptable that due process is simply ignored?
“I am not in favor of such public disply, it only pisses people off who don’t understand it and isn’t furthering the cause in my mind.”
Yet will the voice that REALLY matters, the NRA, condemn it in a visible, media-attention-getting way, in the manner of their post-Newtown press conference?
No, Carl…firearms will be loaded. Sorry, I didn’t see your comment about NICS…where is it? You aren’t the only with chemo-brain 😉
“You can fly on an airplane with a firearm” in the sense that “you can fly on an airplane with a pet dog or cat,” i.e., not what people usually mean when they talk about things with which “you can fly on an airplane.”
I believe that firearms are permissible in checked baggage – follow the rules.
From the TSA website:
Travelers may only transport UNLOADED firearms in a locked, hard-sided container in or as checked baggage. All firearms, ammunition and firearm parts, including firearm frames and receivers, are prohibited in carry-on baggage.
Do you really believe anyone going to this event will give up their weapon to airport staff to be put on checked in baggage? I have to admit the FB event page has been going non-stop this morning from commenters — pro and against. Is this maybe a media thing to get more listeners over to his radio show?
They WILL give up their firearms to fly – legal firearm owners know the laws and follow them – except for this planned stupid supposed open defiance civil disobedience in Washington DC – which will never happen anyway.
Duh…you think?
Open carry was pretty much banned in California because of idiots like these.
*Air Marshal’s have a tough enough job as it is…..profiling as many weirdos as they can see. Firearms being provided to members of the flying public….through a CCW or just because……does not compute.
Currently, “IF” you are a competitive shooter…..for either the Olympics or for major Firearm Competitions…..you will have to store your firearms in the steerage/baggage and if you want the ammo to go with that….you may have to drop ship that ammo via another plane at your principle destination. Competitive Sporting Clay shooters may need upwards of 2000 rounds for practice and the actual competition.
If you have a standard six shot revolver………it will totally depend on the airline or agent whether or not your wife, girlfriend, son or father can carry your ammo in steerage/baggage. Certainly not, in the cabin areas. The only ones that legally can carry a loaded firearm are US Air Marshals and some Pilots that may keep them in a locked box in the cockpit.
and the response videos are starting… http://youtu.be/XfDHXlywtbo
According to The Fairleigh Dickinson University PublicMind poll, more than one-quarter of Americans (29 percent) endorse the concept that an armed revolution might be necessary in the future – five percent are unsure – but the notion is split. When it comes to Democrats, 18 percent agree that an armed revolution might be necessary, while 44 percent of Republican voters believed it’s necessary and 27 percent of Independents say it might be important.
Granted, a majority of people want gun reform, but quite a few are concerned about abuse by our government (as well they should be). Some of the people on that bridge might be democrats. Perhaps the July 4th action seems sensational, but Kokesh has struck a nerve with a large segment of citizens who want to have their voices heard as well.
In the meantime, what are the Progressives doing to confront the the growing police state? Assata Shakur could now a target of the US assassination program. It took an anarchist, Chris Hedges, to sue Obama for the illegality of a part of the NDAA. More people needs to do something, organize people, get the Democrats to secede or move them over to the Greens, cross the lines of party and unify We the People, something significant or grand political gestures will be the only political voice many people will have.
*The counter culture is baaaaccccckkkkkk! We always loved those guys. Topless girls, colorful signs, three enlightened individuals…….leading the
parade. Sort of like the “Doodah Parade”…..we love that too.
R & A… Did you drop some *window pain*? I think the counter culture we have today would like to kill the counter culture you fondly remember.
Ron, have you every heard of autonomous communities? they exist in Denmark, in Mexico, in Iceland, and the Basque region. The problem w/ many Americans is that they have not breadth of scope of current events and history and have little faith in the spirit of people to survive and work together.
This scene is going to collapse. So, I advise you to get your love beads out and learn how to garden.
I completely agree Sharon, Our government is spinning out of control BUT who will be left if there is an armed revolution? There will be a power grab for sure and we just might end up with something more terrifying than we have now. If it were up to me, I believe a nationwide strike works. Hit them in their wallets but that would take a miracle. We are too divided to pull that off. People enjoy blaming groups of people who are different than them. Most like to complain via social media or Craigslist but if push- comes- to- shove, they will run like rabbits.
Those who want zero government do not have a viable plan. We live in a society and that means we have to work together. No one can provide food, shelter, medical care on their own. They do not want taxes but they like the fire department to show up if their house is on fire; they like driving on smooth roads, they like electricity…
Its not a black and white issue. These groups love pointing fingers instead of examining their own beliefs/behavior. These same groups demand people who might come from so-called terrorist religions or countries be profiled and at the same time they want to move about freely. One person claimed that if the people of Boston had guns the bombing would not have happened. That is not logical by any means.
Others want to sucede and I say, let them– exactly how will they survive on their own? What sort of government will they form? how long will it take before they are unhappy with that?
My guess is that Kokesh has issues from the battlefield OR he is a genius and looking to run for office and win this time around.
So Inge, you agree they have too much power, are spinning out of control, but you want to give them MORE power?
They have a limited set of things they can legally do. They have stretched those boundaries so much that they are now totally unrecognizable. Even those who have studied it extensively have problems trying to stretch the envelope around them, IF they even try, before the courts, even if they try to reel them back in get sandbagged by new proclamations and schemes.
Sorry, but I don’t get it!
Carl, marching around with guns in public whether its among 1,000s or shopping at J.C. Penny is a BAD idea! Do you contact your legislators or Obama to make your voice heard???? I do. I have emailed Obama so many times and called Feinstein’s office that I am sure I am on their radar. Have you gone out and marched in the streets, mixing it up with the police???? I have since 1991 during the first Gulf War. And guess what? I never brought a weapon. Having more firearms in our society does not make us safer BUT it sure makes gun dealers, gun manufacturers, Alex Jones and his ilk and the NRA a lot RICHER ! Fear is a huge seller!!!
I actually hope they do what they say and you know what will happen? Nothing.They will look as dumb as they sound. Many will dress up for the occasion like the Tea party did.
Yes our gov. needs reigning in but thinking guns will protect you is plain dumb. Do you really think you can out-gun the USA? You watch too many movies my friend.
Inge,
I have NEVER said “out-gun the USA”, never.
Please, stop stereotyping me.
I don’t believe that street protests are productive. How does “mixing it up with police” make a safer, more peaceful and productive society?
I want to build, not tear down. I want a peaceful society obtained by peaceful means, logic and hard work.
I work WITH the SAPD and the community. I worked with Anaheim PD as well, when I lived there. I donate time to working charity events. I want positive engagement with govt, not negative. Since I’m not in either party, they are all outsiders to me, some I like better than others, but it depends on their honesty more than anything with me.
I have been writing letters, faxes and e-mails since 1989. I am the prairie dog that has been barking the alarm on Second Amendment and other enumerated Rights issues since then.
On social issues in the city I have gone toe to toe with some of them, flat out threatening them with lawsuits if they continued. Presented my arguments, won some, lost some, but overall WE have moved forward. We have a reasonable working relationship, such as it is.
I am much more the average firearms owner than the stereotype you speak of. It’s really very sad that your mental image is so far from reality, but your not alone in thinking that or saying it.
Carl, You come across at least here that you align yourself with the wingnuts or are at least sympathetic. This is the last time I will say this… I am not writing about the responsible gun owner. Unfortunately it is the wingnut that screams the loudest and gets media attention. I am definitely not the only one with this view. It is apparent to anyone watching the NRA meeting last weekend, that they want to arm everyone to get ready to fight our government. But in reality its all about gun sales. Money! Money! Money!
Yes, our gov. needs to be reigned in but it is money in politics that is ruining our society. For example there are 3 Pharma lobbyists for every politician. Politicians no longer work to serve our country, they are employees for corporations. Guns will not fix this.
Those who complain about NDAA should have complained when we handed over our liberties during 9/11. All this fear mongering is the gun lobby doing marketing for gun manufacturers and people are easily manipulated to believe this crap.
Those who truly believe they can take on the US government need to get their head examined. They need a lot more than AK47s…how about some missile launchers? A few nuclear bombs???
There are groups of gun nuts that will think you are the enemy because you work with law enforcement. These type of people are very black and white….us against them.
Have you looked at the Facebook page yet and read the 1,000s of comments??? I don’t believe the majority will show up. They are like the big mouth who talks big until its time to rumble. Ever notice who the real killers are? Their friends and neighbors always say they were the quiet one. Real killers don’t go around broadcasting their plans. Its all about the art of surprise.
And it was the daily protests in the 60s that brought about change.
Inge,
Those who want “zero government” do have a viable plan. To be more accurate, government is often conflated with a specific form of governance today: the state. The state is a coercive territorial monopoly on the use of force in a given area. Everyone clamors to control this central pillar of power in society and politicians are another name for power-brokers for an apparatus of violence. Monopolies require force to persist, and this central monopoly props up and supports all other monopolies and cartels, whether through collusion via corporatism, or on the black market by prohibiting for things that consumers demand (drugs for example).
You’re absolutely correct that we need to work together. Society is fundamentally built on peaceful interactions. No one can provide all their needs for themselves so we take our individual skills and divide labor in a way where we can maximize value and create goods and services for each other in an efficient way. Because value is subjective when a trade is made voluntarily each party is doing it because they feel like the trade is more beneficial for them than had they not traded in the first place.
Taxation is not a peaceful interaction, it’s the threat of expropriation for a compulsory service, and it is not necessary for the provision of security from the threat of fire, or roads, or electricity.
I would love to secede, and there’s a growing population of people like me who would love to see a more decentralized, voluntary form of governing institutions. I don’t want to survive on my own, but to work with other people who share the principles of a voluntary society such as self-ownership, and non-aggression. If I’m unhappy with the people who provide my governmental services, I can go to a competitor. What I describe may sound utopian at first glance but it’s not, its simply about the the minimization of coercion and maximization of peace.
I understand this may sounds pretty different or bizarre but there’s been a lot of work done on polycentric legal orders. In fact there have been some rudimentary versions in the past which had existed for longer than the United States has been a country.
It really is viable, with a pretty deep foundation in praxeological science, it’s just a bit different from the coercive and monopolistic system we have today.
Anyway, I’m just going to throw another perspective out there. I’m not really here to get into arguments or anything,
That sounds so good…on paper, but throw in humans and it turns to shit. Humans are flawed. They enjoy conflict. If they didn’t reality shows wouldn’t be so popular. Humans fight for power and control. It even happened with in the Occupy movement…it didn’t take long before there was endless infighting among members. It was doomed to fail from the start. What gets in the way? Ego. One person with a strong personality sees it one way and one sees it another…before long there is gossip, back stabbing and all out war.
I see the problem as lack of empathy. If these pro-gun owners had any they would have reacted with shock to what happened to those kids in Newport…instead they screamed about THEIR rights. What about my rights? What about those kids rights? They love to point fingers at everyone else. Maybe if they were held personally accountable for what happened with their weapon, they would sing a different tune. Like I mentioned before…buy a gun — lock it up–if its used in a crime–be held liable. Its their job to make sure its safe.
These people will never get it because they are so wrapped up in their egos and fear. They believe everyone is out to get them, whether its someone wanting to steal their food in a disaster or now its the government wanting to take their guns.
I have to hand it to the NRA and most especially gun makers. Sales weren’t as good as they liked so they created this new boogey man in the form of Obama to boost sales. Why the shooting in Newport was a gift to them. Gun sales jumped.
Did anyone watch the NRA meeting speeches? It was the usual suspects and they all had the same war cry….”the government is taking your guns.”
I have been trying to get a response from Mr. Kokesh…I want an interview but the only response I get is when he removes my comments congratulating him on his marketing skills– he is selling tee-shirts for his big 4th of July event and has 1,000s of new followers. Mr. Kokesh is a military vet and we all know vets are having a hard time finding work, so he has to come up with a plan and selling fear is a good one. It’s perfect timing. He is joining the ranks of Alex Jones and that super nutcase, Glen Beck . It may take him a while but he is well on his way.
I wasn’t planning on responding, but I did want to address a few things.
As I said, what I wrote may sound utopian on the surface. It really isn’t. The fact that humans are flawed and self interested is precisely why it’s necessary to decentralize power away from a coercive monopoly on violence and distribute it among voluntary organizations. Self-interest is a neutral thing, it can be both bad and good.
I agree that the Occupy movement was not cohesive, but the issues with that movement is not applicable to what I’m talking about. They weren’t organizing along the principles I’m bringing up. The system I’m talking about accounts for the fact that people are self-interested and have Egos and their own perspective and accounts for this in the most basic way. It’s really not comparable.
Politics is exactly what you’re talking about. Humans fighting over a centralized apparatus of power. Politicians are simply power brokers for this apparatus and sell the use of violence to the most influential special interest groups and private interests. They pervert laws to make criminals when there is no victim through political decrees turning law enforcement into systematic infringement of rights.
Will people struggle for power in an environment without this apparatus? Sure. But how it works out really depends on the ideas society hold. If people demand decentralization of power they will have it, but they (a critical majority, not everyone, it’s not a utopia) need to understand the fundamental principles such a society must be based on. In the same way society now regards the principle of chattel slavery as unnecessary for an economy and fundamentally immoral and no longer organizes around it as a principle.
Abolition of slavery is a Utopian ideal, it still exists in the world today in some regions, and any bad actor can kidnap someone and claim them as a slave (until they break free or society-at-large finds out). But the significant thing is that it’s no longer institutionalized among most of the developed countries in the world. In the same way a free and voluntary society is not looking for an end to all conflict or aggression. As I mentioned earlier it’s an effort to minimize coercion and maximize peace, freedom, and prosperity (which are all linked together).
I totally agree with you that empathy is important. In fact I’d ask you to take that line of thought to task and apply it when it comes to the gun supporters you’re taking to task. You would likely consider me in that camp, but I assure you that I have empathy for victims of violence and people’s demand for security from it. I’m not pointing fingers at anyone. The fact of the matter is that many of them have demands to be free from violence and secure as well, but they have a very different perspective of the situation and how to address it. The same basic needs are there, but people are divided on how to apply a centralized apparatus of power to meet them.
When people are addressed in groups like that, and sweeping generalized judgments are made about them, it disregarding that they are individuals with individual perspectives, and it exacerbates the problems you talked about earlier where Egos get in the way and other perspectives are lost and people get divided and conflicted and empathy is decreased. They’re doing the same thing to you when they lump you into a group that they have their own preconceived notions about, and neither side likes it when they get each other wrong and rather than getting to the root of the conflict by empathizing with people and being open to understanding their perspective it results in anger and divisiveness and bloated Egos.
There are a lot of people who hold to the same [organizational] principles that I do that I don’t always approve of, and many that I wouldn’t want to even associate with in a free and voluntary society. People are individuals, conflicting interests will exist. It’s how we decide to handle those conflicts and relate to each other at large that will dictate how peaceful, free, and prosperous society will be.
Its Your Job,
As in anything we all have our perspectives of what we see…I see the Occupy Movement as relevant because the behavior is the same. it didn’t take long for it to become an “us against them” mentality. Many men treated women as second class…a separate Women’s Occupy was formed to address that problem. They saw the world as black and white. If someone did not conform to what they perceived to be true, they were seen as either the enemy or aiding the enemy…which was society in general.
I agree with you about slavery but these gun nuts think the 13th Amendment should be abolished. Jim Porter thinks the civil war was about Northern aggression… there are states in the south who think its ok to fly a Confederate flag, etc.
The bottom line is this and I think anyone with common sense knows that gun makers are using the NRA to sell fear to boost gun sales. No one in their right mind believes that the government is taking their guns and if that were the case no one in their right mind believes they have the fire power to shoot down drones, battle anti aircraft missiles, etc… The government is not interested in taking over Anaheim.
I am working on another story about all those who profit from this fear mongering. Its a real eye opener.
I understand that you feel the issues you perceived in Occupy to be relevant as a microcosm of social issues. What I’m trying to say is that the power dynamic changes depending on the principles of organization.
There’s a huge difference between a pure democracy and a democracy which recognizes individual rights, for instance. There may be cultural bigotry issues that persist that would have been much worse under the former than the latter. The point would be to decentralize power to the point where these issues were minimized and localized.
I feel it would be pertinent for you to get a more knowledge about what it is I’m actually endorsing before making such comparisons between the issues with Occupy and applying them to it.
Again, I’d implore you to take your own advice about being empathetic when referring to people who have a different perspective than you do. I get the feeling you’d probably lump me into that group of “gun nuts” based on my own perspective. I wouldn’t call you names, and I hope you take into consideration that doing so does not help when it comes to addressing the issues you discussed about conflict, Ego, divisiveness, and lack of empathy. I understand that it takes 2 to tango, but at the same time someone must always take the first step, and when you perpetuate it, the cycle can never be broken and can only be exacerbated.
As far as the NRA goes, personally I’m not a fan of the organization, because I see them as lobbyists for the established gun industry more than a group dedicated toward individual rights. Though it may be in their interests I don’t think all the blame can be laid on the manufacturers and the NRA though. I get the feeling a lot of people are very anxious about what’s going on in government and society in general. Some people find security in government, some don’t. Some find the expansion of state power disconcerting.
And as far as fear-mongering goes it’s not that hard to see why people would be so anxious. State power is always expanded under the pretenses of security. Look at how we got into Iraq under false pretense (or Vietnam for that matter), or the security apparatus and constant drilling of the threat of terrorism (which statistically is very low). The bailouts were based on fear-mongering. Look at how the government responded to Occupy. There are a lot of anxious people out there, because it’s becoming increasingly obvious that what we have isn’t working and seems to be coming apart at the seams.
I do believe I found a possible motive for the march… money! He is selling t-shirts for the big day! http://www.adamvstheman.com/products-page/
Its always about the money!
Inge,
I don’t give a wit about Facebook, neither should you. It isn’t reality, it’s “social media” where BS and anger, smiling cats, stupid pet tricks, plates of food and stupid things people say and do, with pictures, reigns supreme. It’s a snap shot of reality but not reality.
That you would become so obviously upset about it, is a problem.
Protests didn’t change the world, the media did. The protests were and are simply the backdrop to frame the story with, on the media. It is all KABUKI.
“I don’t give a wit about Facebook, neither should you. It isn’t reality,”
How naive.
Didn’t you hear about the Facebook Revolution? Otherwise known as the Arab spring.
Just because you don’t use it doesn’t mean it’s not important. By the way, I don’t use it either, but I’m certainly aware of it’s impact.
Demagogue,
Of course I understand exactly what you said and agree, I’m not that stupid and I do have a facebook page. However I don’t actively use it anymore because it elevates every moron to the same status as those who actually have something intelligent and worthwhile to contribute. It’s full of idiots with opinions, mostly uninformed and often just plain wrong.
even I said the same thing to myself, Ryan… 😉 but FB is like a teenage locker room, just my humble opinion and I chose not to let it bother me anymore. Here it’s at least “semi moderated.”
How old are you Carl? My guess over the age of 50. The younger generation uses social media a lot, whether its Facebook or twitter. Many groups including Occupy used it to organize events. It’s used by millions, so maybe you don’t care about it, but millions do.
Remember the protests in Greece? A woman who was part of that protest found me on Facebook and sent me pm. Her goal was to bring attention to the US to gain support for their cause, which was austerity. It is not some juvenile thing, but if you are older you would view it that way.
Actually law enforcement does care what goes on the Facebook pages and monitors it closely. Carl, you have your opinion and that’s fine…it’s all about the 1st Amendment which I support 100%.
I am not upset about anything. I find humor in it if you haven’t noticed. You of all people should know that once you won the battle with the Big C — everything else is bullshit.
“I am much more the average firearms owner than the stereotype you speak of.” Carl Overmyer
The Friends of NRA Volunteers of the Year Award recognizes those volunteers who have made an outstanding impact on the program at the local or regional levels during the previous year. California (Southern) and Nevada (Southern): Carl Overmyer, North Orange County
http://www.nra.org/Article.aspx?id=13181
Gericault,
Thanks for that reference from the past. But I truly didn’t deserve the award, in my humble opinion. I think I got it just because I was “in the saddle” so long.
Ironic as well, since I am currently persona non grata with the FNRA program.
As a volunteer I can find others, who do wish to use my talents and are grateful for the help.
I want to build positive change, not tear things down, if that makes me a “wingnut” so be it.
Just placing your perspective into context……I hate to “tar” you with the brush……but….?
I totally appreciate that, Gericault. I don’t at all feel ‘tarred” by that in any way. I am proud to have been acknowledged for my work and that of our teams of volunteers. My tenure with the program and as Chairman for the State Fund was focused on safety and education.
It is however ironic to support Olympic champions and then to be accused of anti-social behavior. Again, if that makes me a “nutcase” so be it.
Where’s the “like button” for that 1:21 PM comment….?
I feel up lifted now. Thank you!
Inge, you are SO far off and out of touch with reality and the feelings of my fellow 2A citizens it flat out amazes me. Besides being rude.
NSSF is a manufactures lobby.
NRA is NOT.
The two of them have had a very rocky relationship, including right now.
The NRA is not a manufacturer”s lobby?
That is the second crazy thing that you’ve said today. Of course they are. They are all about promoting the business of selling guns and ammo, and they ignore the majority of their membership when it comes to background checks.
I can’t believe that you support an organization that is wholesale propaganda machine spewing lies on a regular basis. They are fear mongers who take your money and hire the likes of Glenn Beck (too crazy for Fox News) to spread their message at their Texas convention. They want everyone to think that there is a big push for a gun registry, the government is coming for your guns, and the government is buying all of the ammunition so that there is none left for you. All of which is a big fat lie, and you know it, but you support it. But boy does it sell guns!
If that isn’t enough, now they are tapping a younger market…..so a five year old fatally shoots his two year old sister with his youth sized rifle. There are Hello Kitty guns that are pink with pink ammo. That’s friggin’ insane. This country has gone gun crazy.
If only the two year old had been armed, then maybe she could have defended herself . Next the NRA will be trying to figure out how to get guns into the hands of fetuses.
You have to be 21 to drink, 18 to smoke, but hey it’s okay for an unsupervised three year old to have a loaded gun.
It’s legal. It’s nuts.
Demagogue, you are soooo right. I didn’t know about the Hello Kitty rifle and just when I thought I heard it all!
Check this out….
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/05/crickett-rifle-marketing-kids
They make 60,000 rifles a year for small children. Just what we need.
I think this is part of the ‘decay of society’ I read about.
It’s not ok to have a child with a loaded firearm outside of supervised activities. That’s why NRA has the Eddie Eagle Program, national award winning and used in loads of places. It teaches small children three basic things, If you see a firearm, don’t touch, leave the area, tell an adult. Simple, easy to learn and effective.
I don’t know that they paid Glen Beck to be the keynote. Do you have a link for it? I couldn’t find one other than a blog comment. If you have that can you please post it.
Why not go straight to the horse’s (ass) mouth?
http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/05/06/glenn-beck-keynote-nra-convention-houston-2013
Ever heard of Google, Mr. Overmyer?
anon,
Yes, I googeled it and consumed the entire referenced link.
No mention of him being PAID or HIRED.
I guess you lied about that portion, eh?
Carl, do you really think that Beck did that for free?
Beck told Forbes that he is more interested in the business than the politics of what he does.
“I could give a flying crap about the political process,” he said. “We’re an entertainment company.”
The tasteless act of bringing a pressure cooker onstage with him is evidence of just that. Tell me how if everyone at the finish line of the Marathon was armed, how that would have saved one life. It wouldn’t have, but that ‘s not what Beck told the audience.
The guy is a big whore, and you’re lapping up what he’s selling.
Sucker.
So you’re justifying a lie to make a point?
I can’t verify one way or another, I’m just looking for the truth.
I’m tired of getting pissed on and being told it’s raining!
Is it the dollar amount that concerns you? What if he did it just for one dollar? (he could write it off that way) Or $500,000?
Is that the question for you , how much ?
By having him there serving up red meat to the meatheads, you are legitimizing him and his hate speech, and lending to his multimillion dollar speaking business.
You, a very active NRA member, are making him successful.
Classy guy, depicting Bloomberg as a Nazi. You are judged by the company that you keep and support.
Oh yes, getting to the truth of whether or not it was appropriate for Demo to use the word “hire” is the burning question of this post.
What was it you said about staying on topic?
I stand by using the word hire.
He agreed to be the Keynote speaker in exchange for (at a minimum) the national recognition and increase in the popularity of his brand, and the increase of what he can now charge for his speaking fees.
If Carl was promoting a business (like Beck’s ” entertainment company,” his words not mine) and was offered the Keynote job at the NRA convention, what would you say was the value of that exposure?
Definite quid pro quo.
I guess that 5 year old missed that class. His mother said she was gone just a minute and that’s when he shot his sister. I don’t believe her for a minute. She just wasn’t paying attention. That boy shot that gun because its his gun and he’s 5 years old. Will the mother get in trouble? I am betting no…so who suffers? The boy with the memory of killing his sister and the 2 year old whose life was cut short. What a tragedy! The upside is — they still have their 2nd Amendment rights!
I bought my granddaughter a pink BB gun – she is a crack shot. We call her “Little sure shot.”
So your okay with a five year old with a .22 rifle?
Holy shit! I bow before your magnificent awesomeness. Proud of yourself doesn’t BEGIN to describe what you should be of yourself!
What an American!
Getting back to the subject of the blog post:
Adam Kokesh represents the NRA/Second Amendment like Tamerlan Tsarnaev represents Islam.
Oh really? Is that the way the NRA thinks of Mr. Kook-esh?
Funny, I haven’t heard them say.
I am not now nor ever have I been, or will be a spokesperson for NRA.
That MY opinion. If you can call Skallwag islamaphobic, then there seems to be a buttload of NRA-phobia running around here. You can’t have it both ways!
“I am not now nor ever have I been, or will be a spokesperson for NRA.”…………really?
Carl, isn’t this your MySpace page?
specifically this part?….. President, NRA Members’ Council of Orange
Father, Husband, founding member of volunteers anonymous. Young at heart, even if my body isn’t always cooperative, high mileage-low maintenance, mid 50’s classic. • Graphic Designer, Prepress Specialist and Plate Maker specializing in flexographic printing by trade. • 2nd Amendment Civil Rights activist by need and desire. I have an obligation to speak out because I can, and someone must. • President, NRA Members’ Council of Orange • 4th Annual Burro Canyon Semper Fi Charity Fun Shoot (April 25, 2009) • NRA EVC, CA-47th Congressional District • Chairman, N. Orange Co. FNRA (Sept. 13th, 2008)• Chairman, FNRA So. CA State Fund Committee • Zone Coordinator, Area 36 • VP WECOP, Santa Ana, CA • BOD RiverviewWest NA
http://www.myspace.com/carlovermyer
” I have an obligation to speak out because I can, and someone must. “……….looks like someone was acting as a “spokesman” for the NRA.
I don’t have a problem with you speaking out for the NRA…..I don’t agree with you, but I don’t have a problem with you doing it.
I have a problem with you lying about it. I think it speaks volumes for the state of how people view the NRA…..toxic waste.
Looks like somebody needs some fire insurance for their pants.
Another bloggers perspective about the NRA http://www.delawareliberal.net/2013/05/06/the-nras-declaration-of-war/
*This could be one of the best blog entries and dialogue on the web this year. Great coments by all. The National Shooting Sports Foundation is the group all of you are trying to come to grips with…..not the NRA. The NSSF are the Trade Organization and they also have Lobbyists in Washington just like the Pharmaceutical, Chemical, Oil and Agricultural Industries have. They create products for export and their impact is sustained by a good domestic market demand. Just as all of the above mentioned power groups continue to do….whether we have ONE Dictator or a million Government Representatives. The concept is always simple: Pay off the people that make the decisions and you won’t have any problems. What did someone tell us back in the ’60’s….”Too bad man is such a social creature!” Original sin perhaps. Don’t mean to get too ecuminical…..or whatever the word is: Could be Jesuit, Dominican or Franciscan……derivation – buy then you would have to ask a “good Catholic” to know the whole answer. You could probably ask a good Buddist or Hindu……they might have some meaningful input as well.
At any rate, thanks you guys……great stuff…every bit. Now for our vote: Linkedin – yes! Joining their selected groups – yes!, Twitter – too much clutter for our taste! Face Book – Too Ego driven for our taste! Android Apps – We use several…we must admit. Amazon – Yes, buy a book – learn something! NFL Network – yes – Total Access is awesome! IMDB – the greatest source of good info in the world – about people!
Inge, Inge, my point is that people want to PROTECT themselves from the creeping encroachment of a closing society. (Remember Naomi Klein and the 10 steps to a closing society/fascism? ) How long do we wait and watch while more rights are being taken away? Actually, I do NOT think Adam’s protest has much to do w/ an armed takeover, but stepping up to show say we are angry at our rights being taken away. (Of course, this is controversial as the 2nd Amendment was intended for white men to control black slaves. TruthOut did a great article on this recently.) But it is a historical fact that closing societies disarm those whom they will soon oppress. The signs are all there: the NDAA and assassination of US citizens, even abroad, financial favor to the elites, censorship, etc.
Remember the Bonus Army of the 30’s, vets who went to claim their promised pay for fighting in the War? They were shot down by the military. I don’t think the military would dare to do this again. I’m not for or against this, as it doesn’t matter, but I’m thinking that men and women have a right to show dissent in any way they need to get the attention of the powers that be. Face it. If we were all in the streets, protesting peacefully, like they did in the “hippie” 60’s, we could get OUR Nixon to enact progressive laws.
And as much as you pain
I repeat — no one is taking away your guns and if you think back ground checks will be the tipping point in that direction, I suggest you stop smoking the wacky tobacky.
I am a member of a large organization, I AM NOT THEIR SPOKESMAN NOR DO I SPEAK FOR THE ORGANIZATION. Never have been, never will.
IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU?
Have you ever spoken, with audible words, in support of/for policies, principles, programs, initiatives, actions taken by this large organization you’re a member of while exercising either a volunteer or paid role with the organization?
You are out of your f++king mind anon. What is your point?
Carl,
according to your MySpace bio..it appears you speak for them (NRA) at least in the OC.
Your continued harassment is nothing more than cyber-bullying.
None of you seem to be at all interested in discussing the issues.
Greg does not speak for the Democratic party, even if he is a member and active in the central committee.
Wait — am I part of this fight? I’ve been busy elsewhere.
You’re right, Carl — I don’t speak for the DPOC, nor have I ever claimed otherwise.
The issue here is the NRA. Read Inge’s article.
You are a very active, award winning, long standing, local council NRA president, that seems to support the organization’s efforts.
Why would you support an organization that elects as their president, Jim Porter ? He calls the Civil War the “War of Northern Aggression,” calls Obama the “fake President,” and calls Attorney General Eric Holder “rabidly un-American.”
He speaks for the NRA.
You are supporting him…… and LaPierre, and Glenn Beck, and the rest of the clowns that they hire to spew lies in order to sell guns and ammo.
You support the craziest segment of our society, and they don’t support their own members, who overwhelmingly want background checks to be law.
Why do you continue to stand up for this organization?
These are all pretty good questions, because I know Carl and he’s a nice reasonable guy. As are probably most NRA members. Don’t you have some problems with them, Carl?
I always ask the same of all the nice reasonable Republicans I meet, for that matter….
*Oh you want to get nasty……OK then! It goes like this: Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were Democrats. Guess you supported everything they said or did…eh? Not likely bucko! We did not support George Bush the Elder or Gerald Ford or Richard Nixon and voted against them with impunity. The game is simple: Who supports your position on the Red Cross? It may not be the current President or current spokesperson. Are you going to stop supporting the Red Cross because of the current leadership? Depends doesn’t it? We supported David Keene as President of NRA…..he was a great President, a real gentleman and a very intellligent chap. We don’t know Jimbo…..but we do know Wayne. Wayne is a politician….ever heard of politicians? They say a lot of things to keep getting elected. Wayne has written 14 books that we know of and has stood yoeman service…in the midst of a one heck of a lot of controversy. Has he done everything right? Probably not……but one thing is clear…..he has be on message and kept on message for many, many years. So spit or yell…..it won'[t matter………the NRA will prevail, because of those that think that they are weak. Wrongo bucko!
Sorry to wake you, the Jello will be done in about half an hour.
The NRA will not prevail, they and you are the minority. The overwhelming majority of the NRA members are in favor of background checks, because they are reasonable, like most of the NRA members are.
90 % of the country is behind background checks.
The NRA total membership is less than 2% of the US population. You’re a very small minority of a very small minority.
The silent majority will have their voices heard soon.
*Dr. Demo, as usual you don’t want to answer any questions – which is all to predictable. No Organization is without flaws. Some have more than others…..like the Republican Party right now. Compare some apples rather than giggling jello…..cause the butter is getting hard and this issue is already in the refrigerator. The Universal Background Checks will occur….when the BATF and local Law Enforcement will pick up the mantle and prosecute those already being caught by Background Checks. Pick a number….1 million people denied the opportunity to buy a firearm….only 16 prosecuted? This is much the same as adding a cigarette tax of $10 a pack. Who cares if you don’t smoke? The people that do smoke….by their cigarettes on Indian Reservations and by-pass the process. The same for criminals, convicted felons, nut cases and people with active restraining orders..they either know people or better yet – just steal someone elses firearm through burglery or black market.
There is nothing wrong with background checks, except a they will not apply to active or retired law enforcement, some bureaucrats and others. Any system should be 100% Zero tolerance, but very invasive if you are talking about giving your firearms to family members or lifelong friends. The system quickly gets too complex and too intricate to enforce properly. In the meantime, how many people will be saved by creating this massive system of defacto registration. They just change the law. Iniitially, NCIS was supposed to keep records for three days, then three weeks….now three months. Pretty soon…three years and then 30 years. Maybe they can make them keep records until the JFK information is released in 2062!
Was there a real question in that ramble?
Did I support Carter and Clinton on everything? Of course not.
Most stuff, yes.
Do you support the NRA on most stuff? If you do, I think that you’re a gun nut.
The NRA is all about selling guns and ammo at this point, whatever the cost is to the general public. They didn’t used to be that way. They’ve been taken over by politicians and corporatists, and they don’t serve the reasonable gun owner like yourself(?) anymore.
Your beloved association has been hijacked by a bunch of greedy clowns. Creepy clowns.
Most Americans (90%) want changes now.
You can dig your heels in, and jump up and down, and throw a fit, but reasonable people will prevail.
Carl…your MySpace page says…”2nd Amendment Civil Rights activist by need and desire. I have an obligation to speak out because I can, and someone must. • President, NRA Members’ Council of Orange”. It is reasonable to believe that you are acting as NRA spokesperson, at least OC Chapter.
You also say you must speak up, well so do I. Are you saying its ok for you but not for me? You said I am rude. Does being opinionated make me rude?
And there is a huge difference between lively debate and cyber bullying. So chill out.
I think the NRA is splintering just like the Republican Party. The Tea Party might be trying to take over the NRA like they did the GOP and look how well that did for them. It got Obama a second term. My guess is that current members will tear up their cards because the NRA is too crazy for them any longer. Membership is 5 million but that’s because the radical ones just joined but I am willing to bet the older members will not renew their membership. We shall see what *jewels*Jim Porter spits out over the next couple of months…
ASKED AND ANSWERED!
How many times does it take before you get it?
I think Carl is tapping out.
Ryan thinks that he’s in Vegas, and has nothing meaningful to add.
Carl, would you mind adding the name of the person you are responding to? If you are directing your comment to me “ASKED AND ANSWERED”, I can say the same thing to you.
Americans Have No Idea What They’re Talking About When It Comes To Gun Crime
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/poll-americans-dont-know-gun-homicides-decreased-2013-5#ixzz2SoYR9r82
Carl,
I will repeat my statements:
1. No one said the government is taking your guns except nut case talk show hosts who love to start rumors and keep up their ratings.
2. No one has enough fire power to take on the US military unless you have a few nukes stored in your *bunker*
3. The NRA is acting as the mouthpiece for gun makers.
4. Nutcase, Tea Party types are infiltrating the NRA … http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/01/14/how-the-nra-got-tea-partied/
5. Gun makers and the NRA are all about making more money. Fear is an excellent marketing tool.
6. See #1.
and while we are on the subject…what were all you 2nd Amendment activists doing when Bush and Congress took away your rights after 911?
After 9/11, it was terrorists that were going to take over the country and establish Sharia law.
Now, it’s the government that is going to come and get everyone’s guns and strip us of all our rights.
They always have to have a bogeyman. If there isn’t a real one, they’ll make one up.
*Inge and Anon, oddly…you both are fairly on target regarding organizations…be they Republicans, Democrats or the NRA. Everyone has a vested interest in their own perpetuity. Understandable, because everyone needs a job. Look at Frank Lutz for example……or Dick Morris……or Bill O’Reilly…or Mike Huckabee…or Sean Hannity…or we won’t even bother to mention the variety of so-called Thinks Tanks and so-called reliable pundits that occupy our time on a variety of networks.
One thing is for sure….after the over throw on the NRA hiarchy back in the ’70s……the NRA has kept the faith with gun owners…..on most occasions. Lot’s of times in the ’90s they let the ball drop…especially in California. Ridiculous laws were passed and onerous restrictions on firearms dealers went forward. The NRA let us down during those times.
After George W. and Laura took office…things changed and they had the wind in their sails…..and went forward to change some stuff. Things do not change overnight or whenever Wayne LaPierre speaks. It takes a long view and lots of persistence.
In any event, the NRA has kept the faith and today….the courts are not all whitewashed Liberal Establishments. Things have been overturned and in several cases the right of the people to keep and bear arms has been enhanced.
We hate the George Zimmermans of the world….the many carnal horrendous works that have happened in Aurora, Colorado or Newtown…..and Sandy Hook. These are were not NRA members…by the way. All of them made terrible mistakes that killed. Certainly, not with any NRA sanction or volition.
UPDATE… The Open Carry March on Washington is postponed until next year. You will have to find something else to do this 4th…like blow up some M-80s. June 2nd Kokesh posted in his Facebook event page ” The armed march has been postponed until next year. Please join up with your state organizers by finding the event page for your state or emailing our national coordinator, Jeffrey Phillips.”
You can read the comments that followed his announcement here…if you enjoy comedy as much as I do… https://www.facebook.com/events/252728144871259/permalink/269708926506514/
Kook-esh fail.
I’d say some time in the pen altered his plans;
http://www.ibtimes.com/adam-kokesh-decides-stay-jail-refuses-give-judge-phone-number-address-1278855
Skallywag actually predicted this would never go down. Good call, Skally…even a clock is….