.
.
.
Above is a screenshot of the Ustream.tv feed showing tonight’s police raid on Occupy LA. Protesters set off fireworks to signal the impending raid. Last heard, police were ripping down (or maybe it was ripping up) tents.
UPDATE: OCCUPY SANTA ANA WOULD LIKE ITS ARRESTED PEOPLE BACK, THANKS!
HERE’S THE E-MAIL THAT CAME ACROSS OUR TRANSOM:
Mention the Santa Ana Occupies by name:
Jedediah Poole
Edith Gonzalez
Peter Nicholas Dorsey
Massimo Marinni
And demand their immediate release. Please also petition for the release of all other occupiers.
Here is the number: (213) 978-0721
BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST!
Ustream.tv feed: http://www.ustream.tv/occupyfreedomla.
Daily Kos liveblog: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/30/1040996/-O-LA:-(LIVE-BLOG-Updated)-900-Police-to-evict-City-Hall-Park-encampment (warning — line may change; just go to main Daily Kos site where it will be highlighted.
LA Times coverage: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/occupy-la-some-protesters-ready-for-tear-gas-others-leave.html and http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/occupy-la-lapd-traps-hundreds-protesters-in-camp.html and http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/occupy-la-confrontation-at-first-and-broadway.html.
Occupy Philly was raided at approximately the same time.
Mourn or gloat as you will. What you have to say will be read and remembered.
UPDATES (from Occupy OC Santa Ana Facebook feed, 1:15 a.m.)
INFORMATION IS BEING PRESENTED UNVERIFIED AND UNFILTERED FROM THESE POSTS.
TIMING IS APPROXIMATE (UNTIL I FINALLY GAVE UP)
”Protestors manifest power by blocking police from entering Occupy LA. Police are trying to come through metro city buses.” -Joel (about an hour ago)
“The park has been invaded, a perimeter has been set up” (about an hour ago)
“Cops are coming from all corners, flooding in. They’re hitting the roadblocks set up on the roadway. They are tearing down tents. -Medic” (about an hour ago)
“Tents are being taken down. It happened all at once, people are running” (about an hour ago)
“An officer just threw someone down the steps. Beating a guy with a camera.” (about an hour ago)
“Protesters are coming into the park from the street. The physical confrontation is beginning.” (about an hour ago)
“One arrest on the city steps.” (about an hour ago)
“Everyone is chanting and shouting at the police.” (about an hour ago)
“They are pulling the tents down. People are moving in on the officers. The police are physically pushing people back.”
“The police went through the building without occupiers knowing. They were in City Hall and ran out onto the grass. The people in the intersection had no idea.” (about an hour ago)
“Medic is on the outside perimeter on Los Angeles and First. Call MEDIC if you need help. The cops are trying to corral people in the park, threw our medic on the ground but he got out.” (about an hour ago)
“The sidewalk has been closed off.” (about an hour ago)
“Police are giving people notice that they will be subject to arrest if they do not leave. The police are surrounding the perimeter of city hall and will make arrests in 10 minutes” (about an hour ago)
“Police are asking for a black out and for the media to turn off their camera lights.” (about an hour ago)
“Approx 1,000 officers out there tonight. 30 buses travel 4-5 miles to city hall area. KCAL says that those who want to leave CAN, but I don’t think that’s really the case.” (about an hour ago)
“Sam just tweeted that EVERYONE IS BOXED IN. they came to harm.” (about an hour ago)
“Cops have declared that the protest is unlawful.” (about an hour ago)
“Some cops are in white chemical outfits. Everyone is boxed in.” (about an hour ago) [approx 12:30 a.m.]
“Cops are moving in, claiming it’s an unlawful assembly. Everyone is chanting “THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING!” Protesters in an intersection have arms linked. “If you do not leave, you may be subject to police action.” Non-lethal weapons may be used.” (59 minutes ago)
“To leave, they’re asking everyone to walk southbound on Main.” (59 minutes ago)
“The cops are tearing down the art piece in the middle of the park” (59 minutes ago)
“10 to 20 minutes arrests will begin.” (57 minutes ago)
“5minute warning given on loud speaker. Arrests will be made. Battons have already been used on a handful of ppl” (57 minutes ago)
“Evacuations are being made to go to a nearby church. No visible medics except for the two from Santa Ana. Looks like arrest #2 is happening on the street.” (55 minutes ago)
“Police are walking protesters across main by marching towards them the protesters are walking backwardsPolice are walking protesters across main by marching towards them the protesters are walking backwards” (55 minutes ago)
“LAPD threatening to use “less lethal force” if Occupy Los Angeles does not disperse.” (53 minutes ago)
“Via twitter rubber bullets flyin now” (45 minutes ago)
“Evacuations are being made to go to a nearby church. No visible medics except for the two from Santa Ana. Looks like arrest #2 is happening on the street.”
“75-100 people linked arms are surrounded by 200 cops, the park has been sealed off. Tents are being taken away. Shouting going on in the center.”
“Police threatening “serious injury” Now”
“Pushing match between protesters and police. Handcuffing people officers carrying people being carried away.”
“Arrests in inner circle now”
“officers pushing media out of the park. People in handcuffs being set down on the curbs.”
“Livestreamers also forced out of park”
“whats up with rubber bullets?”
“Two individuals shot at of now. One in the hand. One in the arm. Officer was ordered to desist.”
“Media pushed media out of the center of the park so no one can see what is going on, on the inside. There are people in the trees.”
“People being hit with batons fornot moving fast enuf. Ppl tied themselves up in the trees lapd juat realizing. Only lapd issued press passes allowed.”
“A bunch of cops in hazmat suits on First st and Los Angeles.”
“Stated reason:fear of pee and poo bein thrown at thm”
“Ray said he saw someone get shot by a rubber bullet in the leg, blood everywhere, medics came in, crowd got too big to see.”
“The media is lying and saying that the arrests are peaceful.”
“People being hit with batons fornot moving fast enuf. Ppl tied themselves up in the trees lapd juat realizing. Only lapd issued press passes allowed.”
“100ppl surrounding last tent. Police having trpuble tearing down tre house”
“MAYOR VILLARAIGOSA ISSUES STATEMENT ON ENFORCEMENT OF CITY HALL PARK CLOSURE 1:01am”
“Victory cheers nearby. People just broke through the police barricade. Cops on First and Los Angeles. The Medic is moving north.”
“6 hazmat guys just took down one mid age woman”
“Medic is back on First st, heading east. Los Ang is blocked off on the south side. Medics are on perimeter, 2 blocks east of city hall.”
“Ocupiers showing up in force”
“Police just SHOT pritestor out of tree with multi rubber bullets”
“They finally stated that the police had a weapon. But say he is doing nothing with it.”
“”We got raided out of nowhere and shoved across the street by cops. They’re rounding up the human circle and putting them on a sheriff bus. A lot of people are breaking through Alameda to join up with us. More to come.” -Tony”
“Protestors outsid of barcades bein told to leave immediatle or fave bodily harm”
“Mass arrests now being conducted”
“I feel so pissed at these reporters, It is making me sick what the hell. Did someone pay them not to tell the truth?”
“Apparently they have an agreement with LAPD.”
“All of the media and livestreamers have been pushed out of the park.”
“They were all ordered not to tweet or fb”
“”City Hall was used as a Trojan Horse to invade the camp. Cops on the street were decoy. No one seen it coming.” -Tony”
“they are talking to a police officer who says they have used no batons, no pepper spray, very little force etc. GOD I HOPE THERE IS SOMEONE WITH CAMERAS AND VIDEO FOOTAGE.”
“Media cannot go onto the sidewalk at city hall.” [1:53 a.m.]
“In a pretty serious violation of the fourth amendment, unconvicted arrestees at #OccupyLA are having their DNA sampled.”
“This is actually common in LA and OC, unfortunately”
“Thank the Occupy Santa Ana people who are there and sending me the info to post!”
“4 people treated for injuries, 2 in the hospital”
Oh, boo effing hoo.
The protesters had plenty of advance notice to clear out and were given a deadline.
I gotta admit, I like the “city hall was a Trojan Horse” bit.
That was also true the American revolutionaries, the civil rights marchers, the Indian independence movement of Gandhi and Nehru, and the African National Congress, and the protesters at Tien An Men Square.
If you say that this particular action is not in the same league, I’ll agree, but to be consistent you will still have to boo a lot more effing hoo.
Yes, I like the “Trojan Horse” thing as well. Very cinematic, very LA.
Let’s think of something more Vietnamese and maybe Le will understand. How about those Buddhist monks who burnt themselves to death to protest the corrupt Viet government? Oh, boo effing hoo.
Vern, he never said that HE was Vietnamese, he said that THE NAME he’s using here is Vietnamese. For all we know, he could be Cambodian!
horray for the l.a.p.d kicking out these squatters . they where given PLENTY OF NOTICE . also see how diamons puts his spin on there.. police where ripping up tents .. yes the same tents that they where told TIME AFTER TIME that they would be torn down IF YOU DONT LEAVE . reports as of this morning that this place looks like a disaster area with so much human waste around that they had to bring in a special squad to clean it up.. great example for them ..ALSO LAST NIGHT i love the little ocupiers with their mask over their face so no one knows who you are .. what a bunch of cowards
Juan, I can’t decide whether you always, or never, disappoint. I guess it’s a bit of both. Thanks for documenting your reaction to these events.
Hey, have anti-Castro Cubans been given PLENTY OF NOTICE not to resist the government? Guess that makes it all OK, then, right?
So what is acceptable to the anti-Occupy crowd as a legitimate means of protesting these days? Just no camping….. or no protesting if I don’t agree with it. Can we bring guns like the Tea Baggers, and paint Hitler mustaches on those we disagree with ?
What are the new rules, because what happened last night is not good evidence that we have freedom going on.
Grate Juan should feel right at home in this Banana Republic.
Can you imagine what would have happened if the Occupy movement had brazenly announced itself to be armed the way that the Teabaggers did? Aerial bombardment?
Actually the tea party protests never left the mess, had the violence or lawlessness found in these occupy camps.
Yeah, they had to do nothing like staying in public parks overnight to achieve public attention, being as heavily promoted as they were by the corporate media. They just announced that they were packing heat and went home at the end of the day.
What did they threaten to do to their opponents — and was that lawless?
If you’re suddenly evicted, you don’t have time to clean up. Surprise.
The Teaparty CHOSE to not violate the law by staying in public parks overnight (and yes Greg, I do think your group did it right by doing it legally), the Teaparty actions were legal (and by the way though some may have been packing heat, that was not a point of the movement – simply the freedom to do so). These movements were not “suddenly evicted,” that indicates an original legality to their actions and a lack of communication with authorities, neither of which were true.
And the Tea Party had face painters and balloon animal artists at their events too. Whoopdeedo!!!!!
I definitely know that as a fact. I was at the 2010 SJC 9/12 Tea Party. Old lady who was supposed to be Betsy Ross made me a cat out of balloons. I passed on the face paint.
What are you going to argue about next? Who had the better bouncy house for the kids?
Willis does have a point. I went to a few Tea Party events in OC trying to drum up support for Prop 19 in 2010 (yes, I am not afraid to venture into places that people drum up fear about) and they were pretty litter and fecal matter free for the most part. The lack of portapotties at two of the events I went to was appalling though.
An armed society is a “scared fecal matter free” society!
I don’t recall seeing any firearms there. If there were, I didn’t see them.
Actually, my people were armed thirty eight years ago in their “occupation” and it was the Feds that opened fire first. And because the Feds wield all of the power, they tried to pin some bogus crime on Leonard Peltier when in fact the bullets did not match the gun. And several years later, not one US President (Democratic or Republican) has the guts or courage to pardon him.
An armed society should scare the crap out of our government. Give them some reasonable doubt that the citizenry are armed and accurate in hitting their targets.
And, Guy, you’ve been to Occupy events and there was also no litter or FECES, right? This is all stupid shit people throw at each other.
The City of the Beige encampment was pretty clean by my standards. When it comes to the cleanliness of a site within the city limits, I am not the person that needs to be pleased. That honor goes to the real leader of the City of the Beige. Emperor Bren, aka the other “Donald.” Boss Agran just carries out his wishes.
As of today, Boss Agran shall be known by his new given name.
Darth Agran. Goes much better with Emperor Bren.
DEMOCRAP I WAS WAITNING with anticipation for you … tea baggers dont crap on cop cars , or put on mask to hide who they are like these cowards . your version of protest gose far beyond . they where out there for HOW LONG ? where told YOU CANT SLEEP THERE .. but they let that slide . hitler mustaches i saw plenty of those on bush BY YOUR KIND . what we saw last night WAS LAW N ORDER FINALLY BEING ENFORCED .. something this crowd has a hard time accepting .
Are you calling police in riot gear “cowards” for wearing masks? I’m shocked!
So you see a picture of a guy crapping in the gutter next to a police car and you think it has to be a protester. That’s objective !
Where do you think that homeless people go to the bathroom ?
Everybody knows that these protests were a magnet for all of the homeless people to find better food and lodging than they had been able to figure out for themselves. So all the people that have been hidden under bridges and in the bushes come out into the daylight, and it’s the Occupiers problem for not being able to control them, and give them a place to crap. Oh, and the trash has piled up at these protest sites…..so where are the sanitation workers to take away the trash?
And since the banks have driven them out of their homes and into the streets, wouldn’t it be humane to offer some sort of place for them to exist.
You don’t mind homeless people as long as you don’t see them.
So answer my question you scared old man.
What is a reasonable venue for the protesters ?
The reasons that they are protesting has not changed, been solved, and they are not going to go away because they got evicted from their encampment.
Their right to protest and dissent still exists, even if you don’t want to look at it.
“Where do you think that homeless people go to the bathroom?”
At Spago?
If you gotta go, you gotta go. The ridiculous thing is that if some of these protesters get convicted with public urination, they will have to register as sex offenders. Taking a piss or crap in private away from the sight of other people should not be a crime. If the geriatric fools had their way, we’d all be wearing Depends and walking around with crap or pee in our nether regions. Which probably explains why a lot of them have been crabby and ornery lately.
TGO,
The Tea Partiers also didn’t sexually assault and rape women at their rallies or vandalize and destroy public and private property, but that all falls on deaf ears to those on here who are part of the Occupy Irvine/OC movement. While that encampment has by all accounts been law abiding and respectful, they still align themselves with a movement that has time and again ignored the law (and not just no overnight camping) and common decency.
That is so f-ng irritating, Newbie. Very few people did those things, and generally they were not even part of the thousands of activists in our movement, but local criminal, homeless people and troublemakers like the “black bloc” anarchists in northern California that we tried to keep away. You really go to cheap extremes to try to discredit a true grass roots movement, that happens to have an open door policy.
Your tales will continue to fall on deaf ears. Well…the Grate One may be impressed.
nice try diamond police wearing mask . they would take off their mask if the goons did not toss pi n crap on them . as far as castro protesters i can see see you have lived in cuba=NOT … . WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHO TRY N PROTEST THE GOV IN CUBA . DIAMOND GO DOWN THEIR AND DO IT .. IT WAS NICE KNOWING YOU WE WILL SEE YOU IN ABOUT 40 YEARS .
I’ve reminded you before about bearing false witness. What evidence you have of bodily fluids being thrown at cops in LA?
As for your invitation to protest in Cuba — I’m protesting in my own country. But I have to say, it is grimly humorous, in light of the above, to see you calling any protester a “coward.”
gee i guess the cops lied about crap being tossed at them… oh yeah during the whole raid nothing was tossed at the cops . they where THE INVADERS .. i liked how you twist things around being the lawyer that you are . have you seen a anti castro rally diamond where things got out of hand like this crowd .. I DONT THINK SO .
Greg didn’t say that “nothing” had been thrown at police in LA. He asked you to provide proof that feces or urine had been thrown at them.
And you’ve still failed to provide that proof.
Well?
Give me a cite to LA cops claiming that crap was being tossed at them.
As for comparing this to right-wing rallies — I can’t imagine how the government would respond if, like Tea Partiers, Occupiers went around proudly proclaiming that they were packing heat. The City Hall lawn might have looked like a killing field.
Maybe the protesters should pack heat to protect themselves from rogue law enforcement officers. I’ve always supported laws that would give citizens the right to defend themselves against thug cops.
The City Hall lawn would by now be a mass grave. That may be hyperbole, but I’m not sure about that.
That is hyperbole because you assume that every civilian gun owner is trigger happy. Since the current laws curry favor to law enforcement and their union (the one union I am in favor of busting and would not shed any tears if they were broken up), they are able to run roughshod over the rights of people and pin bogus charges on them while we finance their livliehoods.
You get attacked by a law enforcement officer and tell me what you would do? Defend yourself from attack or wait for your day in court with broken bones and all? If you think that cops or our government never lie, then you must be naive. If we peons were allowed to defend ourselves against abuse from rogue law enforcement officers, maybe the cops would think twice before trying to muscle their physical wills onto people like Kelly Thomas and Rodney King.
If every protester at Occupy LA was proudly and antagonistically declaring that they might have had a concealed weapon, how do you think last night would have gone down? I’m not presuming that every civilian gun owner is trigger happy; I’m presuming that when the police believe people to be armed they are not even as relatively restrained as we saw last night. And if they had been armed — well, as I said: killing field. I’m happy that ours is a non-violent movement.
So you would let a law enforcement officer beat the crap out of you and gamble on the justice system to help you out?
The secret to having a concealed weapon is not bragging about the fact that you are armed. It ruins the element of surprise. Only a fool would brag about being armed.
I honestly don’t know what I’d do. It would probably depend on a lot of things, including whether I was legally in the wrong Do I have to decide right now?
It’s the economy stupid.
It is now the Christmas season and the city of LA is not going to let some silver spoon’ers screw up Decembers tax collections.
The consumers can now go back to LA’s garment district, toy district, jewelry district, flower district, Oliver St, Union station, and the other downtown attractions, with the distraction of (non-homeless) bums.
hey demoman THE BANKS DROVE THEM OUT OF THEIR HOME .. lets see i borrow $ for a home . I DONT PAY ON THE LOAN .. AHHHHHH YOU DROVE ME OUT OF MY HOME ITS YOUR FAULT . .. amazing how the diseased ocupy mind works . OH DIAMOND what proof do YOU HAVE THAT IT DIDNT HAPPEN .. i will take the word of a cop rather than the illusions of this crowd ..
Simple minds need simple explanations…..
Let’s see….the bank tells you the house you want to buy is worth $200,000 (according to the banks appraiser )when it’s worth only $100,000. Then you’re out of work because yours got off shored, and you can’t sell your house any where close to what you paid for it. Next thing you know the bank owns your house, and you’re jobless and homeless.
The house of cards has fallen down.
You really have no understanding of real estate at all. The bank does not “tell you” the house is worth $200,000 – you, the buyer, accepted the seller’s price of $200,000. It was ALL YOU – no one made you buy the house and no one made you pay the negotiated price – YOU did that. Then you go to the bank and say, “hey, I’ve bought this house for $200,000, I really don’t want to put any of my own money into the house, can you loan me the money?” The banks appraisers, under pressure from the ever present Barney Frank, say “OK, we will lend you that money and you only have to put 5% down (or zero).” At this point, you are literally playing with house money since you have little of your own money invested. YOU knew your economic circumstances better than anyone – YOU knew or should have known the stability of your job – YOU knew or should have known what you could afford to buy.
Don’t see any part of that as the bank’s problem or fault.
The bank tells you what they will lend on a house based upon the collateral value of the property. They determine that value and lend money according to their own assessment, not what the borrower tells them.
Otherwise I could tell them that the house is worth a billion dollars. I thought the bankers are supposed to be smarter than the factory worker when it comes to lending the banks money.
Oh but wait, the banks put these bullshit loans together in a bullshit package and sell it to the factory workers pension program for a big fee. So they are not really using the banks money. Then they do it again and again. Now that’s a ponzi scheme…..
So all of these clever borrowers really pulled one over on the bankers, and the banks were just hapless victims of this great scheme by the public.
They all did this on purpose so that the bankers would rake in record profits and give huge bonuses to their CEO’s, while the borrowers would end up broke and homeless.
The public sure is clever !
Hey Geoff, you love to point to the borrowers “choice”. Tell us, did banks have a “choice” in deciding who they gave loans to? Oh, and spare us the line about how Congress “forced” all these banks to make all these loans. The CRA played a minor role in the bigger picture.
Then tell us, what part did consumers play in THIS little scheme;
high-risk loans –> mortgage-backed securities –> collateralized debt obligations –> credit default swaps –> synthetic collateralized debt obligations –> banks leveraged 30:1 –> near collapse of the GLOBAL financial markets
If what happened in 2008 had JUST been a housing bubble, we would have had a minor recession, ala early 1990s housing-led recession. But we didn’t JUST have a housing bubble, did we? No, we ALSO had a reckless, wonton financial industry hell-bent on taking shit and selling it as gold. Irresponsible borrowers in the United States did not bring the global financial system to its knees.
Geoffy, back in 2007 Chapman University put out their annual economic forecast which had a very troubling chart. It showed how housing prices were increasing at a trigonometric rate as wages remained pretty flat. It was dramatic. It was unsustainable.
After seeing that I got out of owning and became a renter. I didn’t get out at the very top of the market, but December 2007 was close.
I’m guessing that you probably still own your home and have been watching its value decline over the years. You still got a ways to go before it bottoms out.
But you’re the real estate expert, aren’t you?
That’s mean. Funny, but mean.
To quote the Boston Globe (2008):
“Frank doesn’t. But his fingerprints are all over this fiasco. Time and time again, Frank insisted that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were in good shape. Five years ago, for example, when the Bush administration proposed much tighter regulation of the two companies, Frank was adamant that “these two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis.” When the White House warned of “systemic risk for our financial system” unless the mortgage giants were curbed, Frank complained that the administration was more concerned about financial safety than about housing.
Now that the bubble has burst and the “systemic risk” is apparent to all, Frank blithely declares: “The private sector got us into this mess.” Well, give the congressman points for gall. Wall Street and private lenders have plenty to answer for, but it was Washington and the political class that derailed this train. If Frank is looking for a culprit to blame, he can find one suspect in the nearest mirror.”
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/
You know, we should all avoid quoting op-eds – opinion pieces by individual opinionated writers – and presenting them as though they were “from the Boston Globe” or such as though it were an objective account.
My house is the place where I raised my kids, saw them grow, had family gatherings, it is the place where we meet for holidays and booster club meetings, where the kids learned to swim and jump on a trampoline. I have lived and owned three houses in my adult life and this is my last – it is the place I call home. I saw the melt down coming and my wife and I decided that the “value” of our house was more emotional than economic – it is where we were going to live out our lives. I am delighted that you have so few ties that you could sell your house and live the vagabond life as a renter – very economically astute.
Vern, this is a columnist, not really an op ed piece. It is hilarious how fastidious you guys are about any source you disagree with and so willing to write entire posts based upon anonymous and unsubstantiated “witness” claims. hypocritical.
Sure, columnist, whatever, it’s an opinion piece. To present it as “from the Boston Globe” suggests… well I already said.
To continue, when “we guys” pass on an “anonymous unsubstantiated witness claim,” WE F-NG PRESENT IT AS SUCH.
No hypocrisy at all. Hey look. Speaking of unsubstantiated witness claims, here’s the fellow himself, on our blog! You wanna cross-examine him?
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2011/11/police-storm-by-night-to-evict-occupy-la-philly/comment-page-1/#comment-178686
Geez, Geoff — you really think that there’s no reasonable reliance in an appraisal? What if, uh, the bank and the appraiser conspired to provide a high number? Remember, banks thought that property would never go down.
What proportion of people only put 0%-5% thanks to Barney Frank? Seriously.
“What proportion of people only put 0%-5% thanks to Barney Frank? Seriously.”
I think Geoffie was quoting Rush (Oxycontin) Limbaugh on how Frank ruined the housing market. They keep repeating that crap to themselves, and now take it as fact. Actually Frank said that homeownership was not for everyone, and was pushing for affordable rental housing for low incomers.
But, don’t let the truth get in way of your ideology.
No, there never should be reasonable reliance on the appraisal. Don’t forget the sales prices comes first, long before the appraisal is done. What is one of the largest factors in reaching an appraised price? What a willing buyer would pay a willing seller. The sales price is set through negotiations and the appraisal is solely for the benefit of the lender to determine the safety of their loan. In a non financed transaction, there is often no appraisal at all.
I also asked you whether, if you reject the notion of reasonable reliance, you have anything against conspiracies (on either side, I suppose) to misrepresent the value of a house.
Obviously, if there’s no appraisal, the issue doesn’t come up. But where there is one, and where the buyer does have the option of efficient breach of the contract (meaning giving up earnest money, for one thing), do you really think that it’s just paradise for con artists?
A huge number of those loans were refinances and there was no negotiated sales price. The amount of those loans was based solely on the appraisal value.
That’s when people thought that they could use their homes like an ATM.
What proof do I have that it didn’t happen? Are you talking about feces being thrown at cops or your having intimate relations with a sheep? I can’t prove that either didn’t happen. Equally.
My apologies if this strikes a nerve for some reason.
no diamond it does not strike a nerve . it just cracks me up the the thinking of these people and the stuff they put down on their tweets .. g.w THANK YOU . demoman does not understand how it works in the real estate market .. YOU PUT THAT IN PERFECT TERMS . the word YOU . vanishes from their thinking .
Hey Grating Juan, let me explain how this wacky blog comment thing works.
When YOU post a comment suggesting that cops in LA had feces and urine thrown at them, and someone asks you for factual verification of that claim that YOU are stating as fact, then you either have to pony up with proof, or go away. Asking the person who asked you for factual proof to prove that it DIDN’T happen is lame beyond belief. YOU made the claim…YOU prove it.
(hey, anon — what do I make of his not denying the thing about the sheep?)
Those sheep were just friends and Bleating Juan was just trying to find them work.
And if he complimented them on their nice chops they really shouldn’t complain because he was just trying to help them. And what about all of the other sheep who haven’t objected to his Neanderthal behavior ?
Baaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaad! Baaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaad!
Greg or Vern,
Can you tell me if the Occupy protesters in Irvine are doing a better job of not trashing and littering the area than the folks in LA?
Here is video of the LA site: http://www.latimes.com/videogallery/66414692/News/Protesters-leave-behind-trash-at-Occupy-LA
I hope your guys are doing a better job to maintain clean and sanitary conditions.
How was your Thanksgiving in Vegas Sean? Win any money?
I was on Maui and Oahu over the Thanksgiving holiday but it was great. Went to 2 UH football games and also to the Maui Invitational basketball tourney.
I wish I could’ve been in Vegas to see the Runnin’ Rebs take out number one North Carolina.
Thanks for asking.
We’re doing a very good job, thanks, as the City has recognized. We even have our own porta-potty hidden from public view.
Do you see a big mess from the Occupiers in Santa Ana, Sean? I doubt it. I know Irvine’s too far for you to come check out.
I can’t answer for how the LA folks kept up their site day to day, but obviously there’s gonna be a mess left when they’re evicted in the way they were last night.
What are you trying to suggest, in your subtle way?
Vern,
Why so defensive? I was simply asking you fellas the question because I assumed you are regulars at the Occupy camps. I didn’t say there was a mess, I asked the question.
I believe however that the decision not to allow overnight camping in our Santa Ana parks is a big reason as to why there would not be a big mess. Glad to hear you folks are keeping things nice and tidy in Santa Ana.
As far as Irvine being too far that’s not the case. I have no reason to show up in Irvine and stick my nose into their affairs. Dan’s got things under control there and we are all thankful for that.
But I don’t understand what you mean when you say “there’s gonna be a mess left when they’re evicted in the way they were last night”.
The folks in LA had been plenty of notice to vacate the park by closing time and were ordered to take down their camps. If they had complied with the order and cleaned up behind themselves there would have been not mess at all.
They forced the LAPD’s hand and made them come in and evict them in such a fashion.
Dan’s got things under control there and we are all thankful for that.
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
LAPD’s hand was not “forced.” LAPD did not have to issue the deadline and, having issued the deadline, did not have to enforce it. When you force your own hand, you don’t call it “being forced.”
(We are all thankful that “Dan’s got things under control” in Irvine?)
I’m not sure if Sean’s still under the impression that you are a puppet of Dan, or imagines Dan has any interest (besides critical) in the Irvine camp, or observing that Dan likes to drive by and criticize, or if he really is just being sarcastic.
It’s really funny how similar Sean and Dan think and write: One will prod us about financial improprieties, one about littering, and when I respond a little resentfully, they both say “Why so defensive?” I can see how Sean and Dan were so tight in the past. It probably won’t be long before they have a rapprochment. (Despite all the nasty anonymous teeshirt packages.)
I mean, TERRORIST THREATS!
Yes, please tell me you are joking about the Northwood Night Stalker. Unless the rumors are true that he is running for the City of the Beige City Council in 2012.
It’s true, I should really confine myself to writing about Brea. Actually, not all of Brea, just south of downtown. And maybe the adjacent part of Fullerton, down to the Stater Brothers. Then I wouldn’t be bothering anyone who couldn’t keep me up with a loud car alarm. And you can bet that I’d have things under control here and you could all be thankful for that.
(I’m passing these on as news. The content isn’t verified, but it’s an eyewitness account as so is of interest.)
now we have proof what GIANT HYPOCRITES YOU GUYS ARE .. anon comes on here who ever this person is and tells me i need proof that urine and poop where being tossed at the cops . yet DIAMOND you write on here a story that cant be verified about this so called ray ? uhh last night i had someone tell me democrap turned into a tea party member and shot a bunch of libs .. but the story cant verified so i will just post it on here .
Yeah, and Greg spelled out that the story he posted can’t be verified.
You didn’t say that about the LA protesters. You simply made an assertion unsupported by fact.
See the difference? Does that difference sink into your clueless brain?
Juan, the guy claims to have been an eyewitness. I’m not vouching for its truth, but it deserves to be seen. If it’s debunked, fine. But here you have someone who says he was there actually making assertions about what happened. If you have a link to anyone actually making assertions about people throwing feces at cops, someone who can actually be contacted and asked about these assertions, then you’re welcome to bring them up. Just don’t be surprised to be asked.
I am officially debunking and denying that I have put on a three cornered hat and am defending the Constitution by shooting at people. I have verified that your fantasy is not true
See how that works Grunting Juan.
I know that this is all so complicated for you, but Greg identified his source, and left it open to the possibility that it was untrue. Nobody has disputed the story, so it might be factual, might not.
So far, I haven’t seen any actual reports of poop grenades being launched.
Your using “reports” in the “information” sense and not in the “loud noise” sense, right?
Haven’t seen nor heard of any reports.
I am aware that the LAPD reported some SBDs. But you didn’t hear that from me.
“Less-than-lethal”?
diamond i will try and find that for you i heard the story in morning but cant recall what station channel 5 or 9 or 11 not sure i was in the shower and had the volume up .
I was there, I saw what happened, I wasn’t alone, there were two witnesses with me and I saw an Occupier shot by a cop using a hand gun. Period. He went down and we thought he was shot fatally. He was shot in the leg and he was bleeding all over and his leg was as swollen as an elephant. A fellow Occupier eventually went up to him to try and assist. This happened on Main Street just a few yards away from the blue porta johns.
Hi Ray —
Welcome to the blog (or if you’ve been here before, welcome back.) Thanks for stopping by. I’m sure that since some people dispute your account — based on, so far as I can tell, nothing — they will want to ask you some questions. Meanwhile, I’m going to go feed my cricket.
Greg
Interesting that this anonymous accusation has not been picked up ANYWHERE in the liberal media.
Be careful… you’ve been wrong many times here…
Remember how you stuck up for the police side of the Kelly Thomas story originally. It’s probably best to let folks forget that one…
Except here, you mean. (Well, my side of the bed is liberal media, anyway.) What do you think Ray has, his own PR Department? This IS getting out the story!
Except that I am looking for some corroboration.
oh really well demacrap i have a source on twitter that i cant verified who says he saw you shoot those libs .. see how it can work that way too .. and as far as diamond identifining the source some guy name ray o h my source is joe or is it john or jose not sure . and democrap as far as this guy ray who states that this guy was shot by the cop hmmm not one report of any police shooting ..
“oh really well demacrap i have a source on twitter that i cant verified who says he saw you shoot those libs”
Well if “you can’t verified” you source or your sources credibility than you’re in deep sheep poop.
Again, I have not shot the libs…..or the sheriff.
“Some guy Ray’s” post is just above yours, Juan. Literally, it is one primary level post above yours. Ask him whatever you’d like. Your witness.
You know what, the monks that engaged in self-immolation were even more stupid than the occupy people.
That’s just my humble opinion.
I had no problem with the movement or their message. It just galls me the they were crying foul about being booted from the park despite brazenly and blatantly ignoring the deadline that had passed two days prior.
The monks were stupid?
Is there anything that you think is worth dying for, Le?
If there is not, have you informed our troops?
It also annoyed how such a large part of the movement – 30% or so was the official estimate – weren’t protesters or free speechers, but homeless opportunists shamelessly glomming onto the movement like remoras.
“Homeless opportunists.”
That’s gotta be the 2011 version of “welfare queens.”
Wouldn’t you come over to the occupy site if you were homeless, for enough reasons to count on all fingers?
I wouldn’t, because I’d rather starve and freeze and get stabbed than have anyone think that I was an opportunist. (Note: sarcasm here.)
I’ve been homeless. It took me 9 months to remove myself from that predicament.
I can speak on this particular issue with authority coming from that first-hand experience.
Again, you mistake me for some bleeding heart. I’m just sayin’ that it’s only natural that homeless people would gravitate toward these camps. And not offensive to me at all.
these santa ana angels you want to be free im sure where following directions and did nothing wrong
“HERE’S THE E-MAIL THAT CAME ACROSS OUR TRANSOM:”
Is Matt “I Like To Out Child Sex Abuse Victims” Cunningham now writing here?
LOL, that IS one of Jerbal’s trademarks – along with the word “hinky” – that I occasionally re-use because it’s part of OC blogging tradition.
Like Pedroza’s “pajaritos” and “chismes” and “ruh-roh.” We keep a tradition going even if the older generation pisses us off.
Actually Matt is busy shilling for compromised Anaheim councilwoman Kris Murray right now.
I thought we agreed not to use THAT word on here. Transom.
Anyway, got to write up a piece on Congressman Cannabis, aka Dana Rohrbacher, and his recent public support of Regulate Marijuana Like Wine 2012. Which isn’t much of a surpirse since his HB office is the epicenter when it comes to getting some real quality product.
Hey, I just came up with that on my own! I’ve used it independently.
I also like using the word hinky, which is just delicious in the proper context.
Holy blogotopia, Vern — is it possible that I’m actually Matt Cunningham? You’ve met both of us, right? Can you reassure me on this?
Come on Greg….young anarchists living on hummus and Funyuns.
I’ll be in my own tent, thank you.
The cops were smart wearing those hazmat suits.
It smells like … victory.
Re posting times.
Did somebody forget to tell Vern that we set the clocks back an hour?
Yeah, that’s been bugging me for a few weeks, but not enough to do anything. I have a call in with the big blogmaster now, Travis Kiger.
We all knew you were on it, but maybe you should get it fixed before the vernal equinox, Vern.
That was quick, Travis! WORD.
You have great powers Vern.
Well done my friend.
Check out all of the violence at Walmarts on Black Friday this past week. I think it’s time we shut these gatherings down as they obviously attract the wrong kind of people and incite violence.
We have seen shootings, robberies, pepper spraying, and just uncivilized behavior displayed at these sites all across the country.
I’ve heard that there were people camping out, peeing in the bushes, smoking joints, drinking, having sex…..the list goes on and on.
They have no leaders, they are all in it for themselves, I don’t think these people have jobs (how else could they be there?), and most of them have bad hygiene. Do any of them own toothbrushes, let alone floss?
I think that it’s time to break up Occupy Wall Mart and just wait for Nordstrom’s to open at 10am…….11 on Sundays.
And – okay, this is way off topic – but I’m getting tired of hearing the horrible dirty word “Santorum” on my TV. I think a lot of us should complain to the FCC. Do they even know what that means? Won’t SOMEBODY think of the fucking children?
And the children that aren’t fucking.
euuuu how nasty “Santorum”
democrap take a bow you described ocupoop to the tease .
Here’s some video of the police response to a photographer.
Here’s a link to video of the police response to an Occupy LA photographer:
http://youtu.be/yInFCStepKE
IM GIVING YOU NOTICE WE ARE GOING TO REMOVE YOU SO JUST LEAVE .. AHHH I TOLD YOU WHAT 4 -5 TIMES . YOU STILL DONT GET OUT .. REMOVE YOUR THINGS AND LEAVE . AHHHHH WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HEAR .. AND STILL DONT MOVE . YOU GET WHATS COMING .. THIS MODERN DAY HIPPIE WITH WHAT LOOKS LIKE TO BE A CAMCORDER .. WANTING TO BE THE NEXT AL SHARPTON ..
OH WAIT= I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HERE =.. SPELLING POLICE IS OUT IN FORCE .
I hope the cops wears masks and gloves, cause those Occupoo’s really are nasty!
YUCK!
Occupoo – did you get that from Art Pedroza, or did he get it from you? Nice to see two such brilliant minds melding.
it’s not a hard name to come up with, when the crowd we are talking about seems to smell of sh**, talk sh** and no nothing about sh**….Hence the OCCUPOO”S
Are you and Art no longer FRIENDS? Oh, do tell? Let me guess, he did not want to be in the collective anymore?
He went to OZ and got that brain:)
Michelle, you did NOT come up with ‘occupoo,” John & Ken have been using that since the movement began.
Ah, the brain trust! Nice to know Art is mimicking the Southland’s pre-eminent immigrant-bashing demagogues. (No offense, Demagogue)
YESC OCUUPOO CAME FROM JON N KEN BUT SHE IS RIGHT . ALSO VERN N DIAMOND SHARE THE SAME LAME BRAIN .
Vern, John and Ken don’t bash all immigrants, just those not here legally.
Yeah, well, those are usually the ones under discussion.
ldk you mean the illegal ones ? i think the really like bashing all the supporters of the illegals .
People just either go insane or zombies