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Raven Watson, waitress, singer, violinist, patriot, occupier. (photo - The Register)
I’d been putting most of my time and effort – since our great victory Tuesday at the Irvine City Council – into making sure we Irvine occupiers had good music and speakers at our weekend events, and hadn’t been following the larger decision-making, so I was pleased and inspired to receive this update from the Occupy-OC blog yesterday which I hereby pass on to you:
*
Having reached the initial goals of our FIRST General Assembly… we’re now setting our sights on elevation. – And it is time to raise the bar.
It was proposed early in our second assembly that we not merely set our bar at survival, but that we move to become both the aesthetic example within The Movement… and the first local Solar + Zero-Waste Occupation by a date just a week from today… while branding the phrase “Leaderless By Example” across the face of a new conversation.
And we unanimously agreed.
That’s right… WE’RE the ones going on a “City Beautification” campaign.
That said, we’ve already had two large blue compost bins, donated by a local vegan bakery… (THANK YOU!) We have two Network Engineers and an electrician on-site… and will be adding some unique things to our needs list… starting with hugs.
- If you have any connections to solar panels or the knowledge thereof, we need you.
- If you have LARGE plastic tubs or the equivalent of gigantic tupperware, those will help with aesthetics, protecting electronics, & cleaning.
- If you are a Green Living veteran, or an expert in No-Waste technology… consider this your call to arms. – Be here at 6pm any day. And please teach us as much as you can.
You can most definitely expect the announcement of our new “22 GRIEVANCES / 22 FILMS” OUTDOOR EDUCATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL, exploring & teaching about the 22 grievances listed in the OCCUPATION DECLARATION, (the declaration put forth by Occupy Wall Street in which we are all united.)
As to the other, less humane events of the week… in our usual voice of unity, we will say only this:
Dear Oakland Police… YOU CAN NOT… ARREST… AN IDEA.
Dear 1%… WE DON’T MIND YOU BEING RICH… WE MIND YOU BUYING OUR GOVERNMENT.
Dear Scott Olsen… EVEN OUR ATHEISTS ARE PRAYING FOR YOU.
Vern here again – I like the sound of these new ideas, and look forward to the film festival. Into our third week of continuous occupation of the Irvine Civic Center’s front lawn, we’re evolving into a vibrant and growing community – at any given moment of the day we’ve got a few dozen villagers holding down the fort, and at our weekend marches and rallies we’ve had from 300 to over 1000 participants from across the County and beyond.
We’ve had speeches from such distinguished intellectuals as UCI’s celebrated Middle East studies professor Mark LeVine and nuclear physicist and KPFK co-founder Roger Dittmann; UCI Law School Dean Erwin Chemerinsky has accepted our invitation to speak, and when we’re sure of his schedule you’ll be the first to know. These worthies alternate with anybody who wants to talk – students, workers, artists, the homeless, and a surprising number of military veterans from WWII to the current engagements.
In between the speeches we’ve been having jam sessions and open mikes run by myself and the “Rock Doctor” John Hoagland, where you might hear anything from Pink Floyd to Schubert to Miles Davis to the Violent Femmes. This past Saturday I backed up Greg Diamond’s 12-year old daughter Justine in an infectious rendition of Jessie J’s “Price Tag.” We are expecting Rage Against the Machine to join us when they return from their current world tour.
And most cars that drive past us still honk and wave in support, except for the very occasional ignoramus who speeds by yelling, as though it were still 1972, “Get a job!”
“Get A Job” – Really?
The fact is, despite the grinding unemployment in our land, most of us Occupy protestors DO have jobs – full-time or part-time jobs, two or more – which is what makes it so hard to schedule things. Others of us have been laid off from good jobs, but would love to find a new one. But still we make time to be out here because we know it’s important.
But the hostile folks drive by too fast to tell them all that, so we just yell back, “We love you!” Because we’re out there for them as well, though they don’t know it. (It’s a pretty good statistical guess that THEY’RE not profiting any more than we are from the reigning economic and political injustices, as misguided as they may be.)
Willie De Ville’s worries
Our occasional commenter who calls himself “willie deville” wrote in last week:
…What is the exit strategy? Whether you like it or not, the comparison to the Tea Party is inevitable. Both were allegedly grass-roots movements that have or are being hijacked. The difference, in my tiny mind, is that, from the beginning, the Tea Party had a plan, they were going to get people elected and they did that, for better or worse.
The Occupiers do not seem to have the same sort of long-term game plan, hoping, instead, that some sort of organic change is going to blossom. But it will not blossom unless and until they engage not just the system but the process and that is what seems to be missing. No candidates are emerging to run for office and no legislative agenda is being formulated.
I agree that there is a lot of sympathy for what the protesters are articulating but there needs to be something more than campouts and conversation with people passing by.
Knowing that this commenter is a self-described “conservative” who is also one of the few apologist/friends of disgraced Public Administrator John Williams (however those two things square) I took his comment as the goading of a “concern troll,” but he insists he’s sincere:
…Your response, sarcastic, dismissive, is part of the problem. There is an arrogance that really hurts the cause. Mine is a serious question. If you look at what the occupiers are doing across the country, they are having general assemblies where everybody is equal. And, while conceptually this is is a great philosophy, it is impractical in the real world. What is the agenda other than a vague definition of fairness? How do they intend to implement their doctrine of fairness? Are they going to support candidates who want to simply revise the tax code or are they going to support those candidates who call for the dismantling of the current social structure?
Again, if you look at the Tea Party and what they did, whether you agree with them or not, they came out of the box with a specific agenda and a game plan. The Occupiers might be right but it is hard to get behind a movement that does not know where it is going. and to be dismissive, or worse, to say, trust us, is to ask for the same sort of lemming-like inertia that you are protesting.
Again, like I told Willie before, it’s still early in the process, the next election is a year away, maybe candidates will emerge from the movement and maybe not. (Massachusetts Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren, for one, is proudly one of us.) I’d tell Willie that rather than a “vague definition of fairness,” our grievances are threefold and connected: America’s growing wealth inequality which is now 5th in the world; the fact that the very rich and largest corporations practically own and control our government; and the resulting two-tiered system of justice tirelessly documented and denounced by Glenn Greenwald in his new book With Liberty And Justice For Some – with our prisons packed to overflowing with petty drug offenders and not a single indictment for the financial crooks who destroyed 20% of our nation’s wealth built up over two centuries.
There are numerous actions and reforms that could ameliorate these three problems, wearisome to recite, many of them already championed by the best Democrats and Senator Bernie Sanders. Our job in the movement is to never shut up about the problems, to not let other people forget about them, to let them know they’re not alone, and let the politicians know they can’t ignore the vast majority of us any more. Our message is simple enough that even a conservative like Willie pretty much understands it and finds it compelling.
I like to tell the story of the liberal intellectuals who visited FDR to tell him their ideas for a “New Deal.” The President listened carefully, nodded his head, and said “Those are great ideas, gentlemen. Now GET OUT THERE AND FORCE ME TO DO IT!” I hope that we are performing that function for President Obama and the other Washington politicians who need a kick in the pants. (And their backs had.)
Well, that’s my attempt to answer Willie’s comments, as I had promised him. Anyone else want to give it a shot?
The Agran Factor
It shouldn’t have been too surprising that Irvine Councilman (and permanent unofficial mayor) Larry Agran was the one to pull out a legalistic bag of tricks last Tuesday to allow us to remain encamped in our village. The canny old pol was spotted hovering in a corner at one of our first events, he was always part of the group negotiating with our civic outreach committee, and now it turns out that he had secretly suggested the actual site as preferable to one other park our organizers were looking at.
I know many of our readers have it in for old Larry for the snail’s pace at which the Great Park is progressing, for the hundreds of thousands in no-bid contracts his consultant friends have gotten over the years, and for the various Machiavellian maneuvers he pulls to keep a Democratic pro-Agran majority in the Irvine council (the sort of things Republicans do all the time, but how DARE a Democrat!)
But Larry Agran knows which way the wind blows, and I think it’s a great sign that – long before any other timid OC Democrats – he’s embracing the Occupy movement. (Like he helped fight last year for the Clean Elections Prop 15.) When a politician does the right thing, whatever their motive and whether or not you disapprove of some things they’ve done in the past, there is only one appropriate response: KUDOS.
I also enjoy that fact that Mr. Agran is many steps ahead of his usual apologists on the allegedly blue blog, especially Dan Chmielewski, who exhibits nothing but disdain for the movement. And conversely, the anonymous jackals on Art’s blog who keep trying to prove that our Greg Diamond, legal champion of Occupy Irvine, is somehow a puppet of the Liberal OC, obviously can’t tell a hawk from a handsaw.
May we have an update from our brothers and sisters in Occupy Santa Ana?
I will insert it here.
Remember remember the Fifth of November…
This Saturday’s action is a big one, nationwide: Everybody who is able and so inclined will be removing their funds from the large banks who have been running this country for far too long – your Bank of America, Citibank, Chase, Wells Fargo – and opening accounts at local Federal Credit Unions. Between now and then I’ll be researching different credit unions to help in this project, and reporting back here. Here’s from MoveOn.org, who is trying mightily to hitch their wagon to our meteor, and good for them:
Dear friend,
A new trend is spreading fast: individuals moving money out of the giant Wall Street banks and into community banks and credit unions.
It’s a great idea because so many of us are customers who are outraged at how the big Wall Street banks crashed our economy and then raked in huge profits while the rest of us got squeezed.
The idea is catching on quickly. Someone created a Facebook event and already more than 60,000 people have signed up to move their money on or before November 5. And we’re helping to make Saturday the 5th a huge Make Wall Street Pay day of action in cities across the the country.
With so many people taking action, we need to make sure all that energy gets the attention it deserves.
So we put up a new Move Your Money pledge that you can sign to make your personal banking choice count as part of the nationwide movement leading up to the Make Wall Street Pay day of action this Saturday.
By signing the pledge this week you’ll help show Wall Street, the media, and the public that our outrage isn’t going anywhere—and that the Occupy movement is only inspiring more and more of us to take action.
If you need help we have resources and guides for how to switch banks, and we can help you find a great local or community bank. We can also connect you with new campaigns that are popping up everywhere to get groups, churches, schools, and cities to move their money too.
These banks see the threat all this public anger could pose to their way of doing business. They know that if their customers start abandoning them it’s not only going to hurt their bottom line, it’s going to hurt their reputation even more and make it much harder for them to keep getting away with rigging the system and profiting at the expense of everyone else.
And that’s the goal. We, the American Dream Movement, need to show that our anger and frustration is getting worse and turning into action at every level—including right on down to the choice of cards in our wallets.
Join in this week by signing the Move Your Money pledge here:
www.rebuildthedream.com/move-your-money
Thank you for being a part of, and believing in, this movement.
Meanwhile, on a (slightly) lighter note, this just in:
So that’s what you’ve been up to while I’ve been here maligning Republicans and siccing the KosDogs on Willis. Nicely done. (I fixed my daughter’s name, by the way.)
My answer to Willie would be that we’re doing something different than the Teabaggers did. They were deployed (knowingly or not) to bamboozle the public, to get people thinking and talking about things that weren’t THE real issues of the day.
OWS is out there to get people to break the taboo — and talk about the real issues of the day, which you identify. We don’t have to figure out an end game yet. We’re “raising consciousness,” as feminists started saying in the ’60s and ’70s. What raised consciousness does is yet to be determined.
The Occupy Wall St (etc) crowd are dancing in the streets and playing fiddles while Rome burns.
Rome burned because people demanded accountability? Is this the one in Italy?
Raven WAS fiddling. But it was a song ABOUT Rome burning, not Nero escapism. It was more like Paul Revere.
First, thank you to both Vern and Greg for your reasoned and rational responses. Second, i have been called many things but never a concerned troll. Third, I was never an apologist for John Williams, I simply stated facts, like the fact that the TapOut complaint against Williams was dismissed, the fact that the woman that Todd Spitzer was pimping for is now being investigated by the sheriff for elder abuse and the fact that John Williams is still at his job making the same money and accruing the same pension. And fourth, a better picture of willie would be from the 1984 Montreaux Jazz festival.
The problem with raising consciousness and seeing where that takes us is that history tells us that we usually get taken to a bad place. Fidel and Che raised the consciousness of the Cuban people and look what that wrought. Joe McCarthy raised the consciousness of the American people and we got HUAC. Who knows where the raised consciousness of the Libyan people are going to take that society. So, simply raising consciousness without addressing the ends to which that consciousness is being raised, is problematic.
I agree with your analysis of what the problems are but until you tell me how you are going to address those problems, it is hard to blindly go along. Bernie Maddoff asked his investors to trust him and look at where that got everybody. If the goal is to build a solar city on the front lawn of the Irvine Civic Center and demonstrate that a small group of people can live a sustainable lifestyle, albeit within the infrastructure of a larger community, God love you. But if you are looking to impose that group collective on the society that i live and work in, then you should be prepared to provide me with the parameters, rules and processes under which you propose to administrate that society. And, to date, you have not done that.
Change is inevitable and should be welcomed and embraced. The question is, what type of change is being proposed and how will it be implemented. I sincerely commend the two of you, and all those out there, for taking a stand and making a sacrifice. But I think that to garner the wider base of support you are going to need to implement your goals, you are going to have to better articulate what those goals are.
good luck
Really, pull money out of the bank and put it in a local credit union? You obviously aren’t old enough to remember the S&L scandal that was actually worse in terms of ethical violations even if it was for more modest in scope.
On the broader front, I am afraid your articulation outstrips the true intent of the vast majority of your brethren. I read your comments to mean that you believe the core purpose of the Occupy movement is to work toward a more fair, less compromised by money, form of democracy. Having seen rampant corruption up close on both sides of the aisle both locally and nationally, I would support that agenda. The only “anti” argument is that there is no practical solution, but I reject that we have to tolerate corruption as an ongoing part of democracy. Other arguments against are just subterfuge from those that really just want to keep the existing system in place because they feel they gain advantage from a system susceptible to unfair influence and corruption.
If I have your position right, and please let me know if I have misread you, I fear that your position is quite divergent from the national movement which really seems to focus on very socialistic/communistic rhetoric focused on forceful redistribution of wealth disconnected from market forces. I believe your take, (again, if I have it right), is not that you favor forceful redistribution of wealth but rather that you want fairness in terms of access and influence of money on elected officials. Again, IF that were the point, I would whole heartedly support that. Again, I fear you are being far more articulate, focused and balanced than what I have seen out of any of the other Occupy folks. After all “we are the 99%” is a class war fare call to arms and NOT a request for a more fair system.
“Really, pull money out of the bank and put it in a local credit union? You obviously aren’t old enough to remember the S&L scandal that was actually worse in terms of ethical violations …”
Credit Unions and S&L’s are not the same thing, here’s some basic info.;
Differences between Banks, Credit Unions and Savings Institutions
The Difference between a Bank, a Credit Union and a Savings Institution
Terms like bank, credit union, and savings institution may seem interchangeable today. But there are some distinct differences between them in terms of business purpose, ownership and governance.
Chartering Authority, Deposit Insurance and Regulatory Examination
Banks, Credit Unions and Savings Institutions operate under federal or state charters. Their deposits, up to $250,000, are insured by one of two federal agencies: the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) or the National Credit Union Administration (NCUA). All institutions are subject to periodic regulatory and federal insurance examination.
Ownership and Governance
Bank
Banks are community, regional or national for-profit business corporations owned by private investors and governed by a board of directors chosen by the stockholders.
Credit Union
Credit unions are non-profit financial cooperatives owned by their members and governed by a board of directors elected by, and from among, those members. Usually there is a common bond among the members, such as belonging to the same organization or living in the same geographical area. Credit unions accept deposits from their members and use them to make short-term loans. Deposits are regarded as purchases of shares, and all earnings of the credit union are paid out as dividends to members
Savings Institution
Savings institutions (also called savings & loans or savings banks) specialize in real estate financing. They can be either corporations or mutuals (a type of business where making a deposit is like purchasing stock in the organization). Savings institutions always have the letters SSB or FSB after the name to indicate whether they are a state savings bank or a federal savings bank, respectively. Both types are governed by an elected board of directors.”
http://www.wdfi.org/wca/consumer_credit/credit_guides/DifferencesBanksCreditUnionsSavingsInstitutions.htm
Are Credit Unions FDIC Insured?
By Philip van Doorn
NEW YORK (TheStreet) — Are credit union deposits FDIC-insured?
No, but it doesn’t matter.
For starters, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. only insures deposits in banks and savings and loan associations. Federal credit unions have their own insurance fund, which is run by the National Credit Union Administration, of NCUA.
When you join a credit union, you don’t really make a “deposit.” Instead, you become a “member” of the credit union and the dollars you put in are called “shares.” If your credit union is insured by the National Credit Union Insurance Fund, or NCUSIF, your shares are insured in a similar way to the way bank deposits are insured by the FDIC.
All federal credit unions are insured by the NCUSIF. State-chartered credit unions may be insured by the NCUSIF, or might have their own state insurance or private insurance.
All credit unions insured by the NCUSIF are required to display the official NCUA insurance sign.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11246068/1/are-credit-unions-fdic-insured.html
Basic Insurance Limits
Individual accounts: For starters, share-insurance limits are per credit union and not per branch. If your shares in one or more account in one credit union total less than $250,000, they are all insured. Insurance limits increase and get more complicated when you consider joint accounts, retirement accounts and trusts.
” I read your comments to mean that you believe the core purpose of the Occupy movement is to work toward a more fair, less compromised by money, form of democracy. Having seen rampant corruption up close on both sides of the aisle both locally and nationally, I would support that agenda. The only “anti” argument is that there is no practical solution, but I reject that we have to tolerate corruption as an ongoing part of democracy.”
Here’s a couple of organizations working on a “PRACTICAL” solution;
Move to Amend;
“We the corporations”
On January 21, 2010, with its ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the Supreme Court ruled that corporations are persons, entitled by the U.S. Constitution to buy elections and run our government. Human beings are people; corporations are legal fictions.
We, the People of the United States of America, reject the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling in Citizens United, and move to amend our Constitution to:
* Firmly establish that money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights.
* Guarantee the right to vote and to participate, and to have our vote and participation count.
* Protect local communities, their economies, and democracies against illegitimate “preemption” actions by global, national, and state governments.
The Supreme Court is misguided in principle, and wrong on the law. In a democracy, the people rule. We Move to Amend.
http://movetoamend.org/
Get the Money Out;
It’s Time to GET MONEY OUT of politics
Bailouts. War. Unemployment. Our government is bought, and we’re angry. Now, we’re turning our anger into positive action. By signing this petition, you are joining our campaign to get money out of politics. Our politicians won’t do this. But we will. We will become an unrelenting, massive organized wave advocating a Constitutional amendment to get money out of politics.
We are using our ability to influence media outlets as a platform to force this issue to the center of the 2012 elections. We are using The Dylan Ratigan Show to build this digital wave, so join us. As the petition grows, the wave grows. Email, Facebook, Tweet — GET MONEY OUT.
http://www.getmoneyout.com/
Wow, Kum Ba Yah to you too, Juice Brother. What I’ve “articulated” here is pretty much not only what I think but roughly what I’ve heard from most Occupy speakers.
Don’t forget – a movement like this that doesn’t shut anybody up is gonna have all manner of colorful extremists hanging around. And the mainstream media eager for shiny objects will gravitate to them. And the rightwing “Wurlitzer” from FOX News to the wingnut blogs and radio hosts will also be emphasizing them. And don’t rule out your own pre-disposition to believe the worst of a progressive populist movement.
But what I’ve described is very much the mainstream of what you’ll hear in the movement. And it’s not so crazy or scary after all, is it? Not even anti-capitalist.
Now I realize that you COULD stretch language to where a tax code with the very rich paying a little more could be considered “forceful redistribution of wealth” given that the IRS has the power of the government behind it. Are you gonna do that?
I don’t know about you, but USAA Federal Savings Bank (yes you have to be a member of USAA to bank there, yours truly since 1992) has never taken a taxpayer bailout and played the derivatives game that Citi, B of A and the rest of the Wall Street bankster ilk loved to play. And we all know how playing that “game” turned out for those big banks. Thanks to our tax dollars they are being kept afloat.
I thought you were for choices and free markets. Or are those choices good and prudent ones as long as you support the big corporatist banks that pretty much dictate monetary policy with their aiding and abetting criminal allies at the Federal Reserve?
Thanks Vern for your support of Occupy Orange County CA. I read with interest the article and the resulting comments. I find it humorous that people are talking about results from a movement that the media chose to ignore for almost three weeks. It was not until the Internet created a whirlwind of attention as well as other Occupy cities sprouting up across the nation did the media begin to cover the story.
As in any movement that is organic in nature; in other words its not a puppet for a fixed agenda, it will take time for the dust to settle; for more participants to join and for all to be educated enough to be able to understand how we got into this mess and then to create a way of out it. We are still in our infancy; in the awareness and education portion of this campaign. When we feel we have reached the tipping point . . . watch out . . . something will be tipping and it isn’t going to be the Occupy Movement!
WE ARE THE 99% . . . WE WILL restore our government to the people, by the people, for the people!
Welcome, D’Marie! Well, people demanding results from us already is a sort of compliment, isn’t it?
I think that we’re “in our infancy” like a new colt; fresh out onto the ground, but already able to run.
A colt??????
Have you seen most of the occupiers? Most of them are either too stupid to run or too high on weed to want to run!
Like I said, this occupy movement is short lived but good for this country to realize: yes dumb people do live in this country, so don’t vote for any joe soap, he may have as much brain power as a flea bagger!
“On what evidence do you base these assertions, Michelle?”, he asked, making what would turn out to be an unsupportable assumption.
I have been in the country long enough to know that liberals in all their forms are either young and stupid, or white, old and rich. They are either government employees and academics.
The Occupy movement is made up of the young and stupid and the academics and rich are support their stupidity, cause they will either gain from it (unions) or look cool and hip (rich celeb types).
This is a fact and I would ask you, who are the liberals of this country Mr. Diamond? WHO?
Oh, God, what a whack job!
First, the media did cover it from the start and has not covered the obvious problem with the flea baggers, they are: drug addicts, wasters, losers, minority moan bags. The worst segment of American society make up most of the Occupy wasters.
The rapes, human waste, violence and down right stupidity of the Occupiers, is in Americas face, the result of liberal breeding.
You have no idea what you want, you have no idea why you want it, you just want to make YOUR life easy and make other people pay for it.
The demorat party is a party of losers and we can see that in the occupier movement!
Just a reminder that Michelle does not llive in the same universe as the rest of us and her comments should be evaluated accordingly. In her universe, this is how people say “hello.”
If you mean liberals are on a whole other planet, your right about that. I think the planet is called: planet doedoe!
No,I can attest to the fact that I do not share your Alien thoughts and values!
No, NO!
Sounds like somebody is still hungover from potato vodka. You should have gone to that meeting last night.
That sort of vile hatred can’t be unfortified.
Sounds more to me like “potatoe vodka.”
I’m guessing that she lives alone.
Let’s not be unkind. Besides, she says that she has kids.
Are you all not part of the OCCUPY movement, ya know, the same movement that shoves wee old people down the steps because they were coming out of a Republican convention. The same movement that has rape, violence and lack of cleanliness on your hands?
No, I think that we all know who the unkind ones are, the same people who advocate for the butchery of unborn children and then advocate for criminals and terrorists using your left wing out of work lawyers (ACLU). The same people who would rather see a union and its members get rich, than educate this countries children.
Well, be unkind, I pretty much know who I am dealing with. And Yes I do drink, though I prefer wine and yes, I am a mother but thank goodness, a mother with a bit of cop! (COP meaning wisdom).
I’m sorry, Michelle, did you say “butchery of unborn children” within a day or so of saying that you are pro-choice? Wow — even for you, wow!
I won’t enumerate the lies and misrepresentations in Michelle’s post; my sense is that people already get it. But … WOW!
You can have loving people all around you, and still be living “alone.”
I think I’m gonna cry.
If you know how abortions are preformed, then it is the butchery of a kid. But I believe that you can’t stop stupid people doing stupid things; that’s why I am for making weed legal.
I feel awful for the wee things that are ripped too pieces then thrown in buckets like trash. But again I think like Margaret Sanger, “The fit should have children, the unfit should not”. There is so many abused, abandoned children in this country, some idiot killing her kid instead of abusing, abandoning, or neglecting it, is I suppose, a silver lining to the fact that maybe the abortionist cut or sucked clean and quick! Women make their own choices in life, they should be able too, then live with the consequences!
Oh, for God sake Demowhack wise up, ya big girls blouse.
lol
Thanks, Michelle. If that’s your line of moral reasoning, how do you feel about actual (post-natal) infanticide? Sanger’s statement would still apply, right?
Margaret Sanger was not only a racist but also a big proponent of eugenics. Before or after the birth ? What’s the difference, as long as you’re cleaning up the gene pool.
It’s all for the good of the human race, and we are going to play god and determine who should be a breeder and who shouldn’t. That’s the train of thought that these poisonous minds preach.
It’s the same mindset that promotes peace through warfare. We need to eliminate that bad seeds, and then everything will be okay. Except it never ends, and there are always more bad people to extinguish.
You never run out of undesirables.
I know Margaret was a racist and that is why she created planned parent hood, ya know the institution you liberals fight to keep funded by federal dollars!
I am nothing like margaret Sanger because she was an evil bitch and the reason why today millions of children are killed. But I do believe in the fact that the unfit should not have children, I just wish they would take birth control or have their children adopted out instead of allow an evil institution to use their unwanted children to gain federal dollars.
And liberals are promoting who lives and who dies in their pro-choice movement, not I!
I only state that we cannot stop stupid people doing what stupid people do. Liberals love stupid people, its good for business!
And Demawhack this is were liberals get it wrong. Warfare is between two types of people. The real bad guy and the not so bad guy.
Only does this country kills its enemies then help them rebuild again!
Liberals have taken it to a whole new level. Kill the bad guys, then pay them off to keep them in check! Does not work!
Kwazy Quinn,
You are now contradicting yourself within hours of your posts.
First you write “But again I think like Margaret Sanger, “The fit should have children, the unfit should not”.
Then we read ” I am nothing like margaret Sanger because she was an evil bitch and the reason why today millions of children are killed.”
You need to pick an opinion and stick with it, at least for a day or two.
When it comes to the unfit should not have children and the fit should, then I do agree with her there.
I think a lot of people within races have unfit parents and I wish they would use birth control or have their children adopted, instead of going to an abortionist. Like I said before; ya can’t stop people doing stupid things. I am pro-abortion because I believe you should allow adults to conduct their lives as they see fit; within reason of course. But abortion is just one of those terrible things it seems that mostly democrats need!
The world is not black and white. The reason that I confuse you, is due to the fact that I am not a drone and you are!
So who should be in charge of determining who is fit and unfit to have children?
Therein lies one of the many problems with eugenics…..who decides.
We’ve seen attempts at this before, and it hasn’t worked out to well for the people who put themselves in charge.
Dude — you are apparently trying to have a rational policy discussion with Michelle. How do you think this is going to turn out? 😉
With the planet doedoe losing it’s orbit and colliding with the black hole of republican ideology where sane and logical thoughts go and are never considered again.
Or somebody’s head exploding.
Jesus, why do you all write so much? Keep it simple. This is not about Irvine. This is about the entire Globe.
Hey you. I was hoping you’d send me a little update from Santa Ana that I was gonna stick into this story.
Irvine is part of the globe, 2x! That’s part of our point!
Right on the schedule – Green Tea Party – as I have predicted.
This is a beginning of the end for the OCcupy separatist movement.
Nelson enjoy your Halloween party in Che custom…… party is over.
Dan C responds via e-mail (because he is terrified that if he responds in comments I will alter or delete it, something that has never happened) :
Nothing further from the truth Vern — you must be taking notes from Art that if you write something it must be true. I support Occupy and if insisting on a consistent message is disdain, you are unclear on the concept. But by all means, allow the morons who post on your site to attack Beth Krom’s weight even though she is the one who placed your effort on the agenda. Classy as always Vern.
Well, read either of Dan’s two posts that I linked to – the only ones this Irvine “liberal” has done on the subject, and you’ll probably get the same impression. From one LOC commenter who’s also a regular commenter here:
Kind of sad when the OC’s “Liberal” blog bashes OWS activists in Orange County. We’ve got the mainstream media for that. This article seems to have have a smug, mocking tone, instead of what should be a clear endorsement, IMHO. Thanks for the supports, folks. If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
But as always, thanks for reading, Dan. And kenlaysnotdead, enough making fun of female politicians’ weight. I know you have more worthwhile things to say.
So the Northwood Night Stalker now “supports” Occupy? I think he’s really pissed that this is going on in his own backyard. I guess it is easier to point out the black eyes of cities where you don’t reside than to take a look at the shit that goes on here in the City of the Beige. I don’t have any vested interest in the ongoings in Santa Ana, but when it comes to the City of the Beige you damn right I do. I live here.
There is enough crap that you can link to Madame Krom and the puppets of Boss Agran outside of her increased waistline. (hint: it’s a “park” that used to be MCAS El Toro) But you will never hear or read about it from the Northwood Night Stalker or the Irvine City Council’s version of Pravda (aka The “Liberal” OC) unless it involves where Dr. No real house is in the City of the Beige. Real hard hitting journalism there!
WOW diamond . they where deployed to bamboozle the public to get people thinking and talking about the real issues of the day .. SMALLER GOV , LESS TAXES , i guess not real issues in the lib world . also they where deployed . what do think this hippie 60 s crowd that is out there not deployed , labor unions , and soros , i guess that dose not count . but since i know now that you came from the DAILY KOOKS site now .. all my questions are anwsered .
Larry Agran? Really? He is the personification of all we are fighting against–a politician who has taken millions from corporate interests just to stay in power. Check with any of his old friends and they will tell you he is as corrupt as any politician in Orange County history.
So he shows up to our rally and now he is someone we want to align ourselves with, please do not do it. He is not the type we want to be associated with. Besides, I thought we were non-partisan? If it wasn’t for the Republicans on Irvine City Council–Choi and Lalloway–we would not be allowed to camp on the grounds at City Hall. Agran is corrupt and we should stay away.
Agree that Choi and Lalloway also did the right thing, which I mentioned in a previous story. Agree that we are non-partisan and need to stay that way, and not let any politicians including Agran use us.
Prop 15 was a good thing though, that would have been a baby step toward California politicians not taking (or needing) corporate money, ironically. Too bad it nosedived. This year, the same people (California Clean Money Campaign) are trying to get a California DISCLOSE Act on the ballot, and we should be totally on board with that. Actually one of their petition gathering volunteers showed up at our Occupy Costa Mesa rally yesterday and held signs with us for a while.
Let Boss Agran use you and he’ll take credit for the whole Occupy thing. Just like when he took full credit for keeping an airport out of the land now known as the Not So Great Park. The real leadership in the anti-airport movement in the City of the Beige was a group of military retirees that actually did the actual organization and petition drives to kill the airport initiative. I know, my dad was one of those military retirees that helped organize the campaign. And when you asked him about Boss Agran’s “involvement,” he’ll tell you that he did not do a damn thing except sound officious. Which is the only thing Boss Agran does well.
Occupy OC Irvine “raises the bar”- check it out.
Good. Now nobody will trip over it.
You’re back – it’s been a year – still in Florida?
Time flies. I’m currently in SE Michigan. Sorry (not really) about your bud Grayson though. I tried to get your 50 bucks back. But he’s a lawyer, so you know how far that went.
I really just stopped by to throw a stone. I do like the new look though. Best looking lib blog on the planet IMHO. And I do troll the best of them.
Anyway, good luck with your occupy-thing-a-ma-ding. It makes my job that much easier.
I’ll be around more as November 2012 draws near. This should be a fun one regardless of the GOP nominee.
Take care (really).
My boys Geoff Willis, Larry Gilbert and Tony Bushala shoot back in unison: “WHO YOU CALLING A LIB BLOG??”
And Fox News is fair and balanced. I will if you will.
Is it time?
Is it time to start taxing the “Occupy ’ers” to pay for the costs of the air they breath, the water they drink, the grass they stand on?
Sorry about that. But it has to be noted that I did NOT start the Beth Krom obesity coversation, merely chimed in.
And for what it’s worth, I found myself in Tustin today at The District and the Whole Foods Market. This was a mile away (geographically) and a million miles away (in idealism) from where you guys are on the lawn.
I would have swung by but the streets have become unfamiliar to me since LTA closed, I ended up in the wrong direction.
Perhaps if Chmielewski would publish just ONE of my comments, even the inoffensive ones, thing could “progress. After all I am a liberal democrat myself. NEVER voted otherwise. I just despise the phony bullshit.
I PROMISE. IF I AM EVER THIS CLOSE TO THE CAMPSITE, I will bring some $7.99 per pound ceasar salad from the Irvine/Tustin whole foods. As much as I can afford!
BTW. I met with Marinez – Haven’t heard a word about that.
$7.99/pound Caeser salad? I believe that that would make you a hero of the Revolution!
From the district: east(ish) to Jamboree, south(ish) toward the beach, left on Alton.