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CNN is reporting that 142 illegal immigrants crossing the border from Guatemala into Mexico were arrested and are now being held in jail. Under the Mexican Constitution and statutes, intentionally crossing into Mexico without proper documentation is a felony subjecting the violator to immediate imprisonment. In addition, imprisonment follows even in circumstances where the illegal immigrant has paid a bribe which is often “required” to cross the border. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/02/mexicos-southern-border/cynthia-gorney-text.html
Immigration issues between Guatemala and Mexico have become such an important issue that the Mexican government is in the process of erecting a giant wall on the border of the two countries. http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/hypocritical-mexico-is-now-building-their-own-wall-on-border-with-guatemala-press-ignores The head administrator of the Mexican Superintendency of Tax Administration, Raul Diaz, has confirmed that his government is building a wall in the state of Chiapas, along the Mexican/Guatemalan border. In an interview with the International Press Service Diaz stated that the official reason is to stop contraband from coming into Mexico, but as Diaz admitted: “It could also prevent the free passage of illegal immigrants.”
Just last month, 513 people were apprehended in two trailers in Chiapas, bordering Guatemala. They represented a cargo worth at least $3.5 million. Another trailer filled with 219 people was discovered in January. http://www.mb.com.ph/node/322482/mexico-di
Jessenia and Armando López crossed the Suchiate River from Guatemala into Mexico on a hired raft of wood planks lashed to giant inner tubes. The raftsman pegged them immediately as undocumented migrants and charged them ten times the usual fare, even though Jessenia thought she had disguised herself as a local lady by wearing platform shoes and carrying all her belongings in a homemaker’s plastic shopping bag. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/02/mexicos-southern-border/cynthia-gorney-text.html
Unfortunately, many of these immigrants are fleeing into terrible treatment at the hands of the government. Jose Luis Soberanes, president of the CNDH (National Commission of Human Rights) found that “the Mexican government mistreats ‘indocumentados’ that cross its territory, it keeps them in jails, in overcrowded conditions, many times without food, without medical attention and overall, violating their human rights.” http://vdare.com/awall/060518_memo.htm
Sometimes the treatment is even more shocking. A 15 year old illegal immigrant girl from El Salvador arrived to a Mexican metropolitan area and wound up working as a prostitute. Her pimps kept control of her by threatening to report her illegal status if she didn’t do what they said. Finally, she was fed up with her harsh treatment and sexual abuse. She escaped and turned herself into immigration authorities. The immigration authorities imprisoned her, incommunicado, in a cell in the basement of a government building, with a man as her roommate. The press didn’t discover it for two months. [Siglo – Mantienen incomunicada a una salvadoreña By Luis Alberto Morales Cortés, April 30th, 2006]
Yeah, Mexico is one f-d up country, no denying that. I’m glad we’re better.
Actually, America is pretty messed up too when it comes to this.
America rewards Mexico for not providing an education, health care, job opportunities, etc. to her people by encouraging Mexican citizens to come here illegally. In part to avoid a revolution (imagine all 12 million angry Mexican citizens rising up for change), and in part because the people in power make a ton of money from wire transfers (a significant portion of their economy).
If Mexico was sustainable (at the very least didn’t encourage citizens to have more children than they can afford to take care of properly), this wouldn’t be an issue. Until then, the only options America has are to erect a wall or force a regime change in Mexico. They need to be more like Canada or Japan or any other Western nation that takes care of their own people. The entire world would be a better place if that were the case.
Actually as far as the birth rate, I was hearing on NPR recently that the Mexican birth rate is declining dramatically – getting down close to two per household. And it’s about time, I say! That old giant-family shit is a relic of – agricultural society, patriarchy, lack of education, prudishness about birth control, and old-school Catholicism.
A populist revolution in Mexico? That would be so great. I would feel like joining some kind of Abraham Lincoln Brigade to help them.
I made a cut and past error with that post. I meant to include reasons why America likes illegal immigration. Cheap labor for sure and our banks and check cashing centers make tons of money off of Mexican citizens that come here illegally.
Avoiding a revolution and making money off of Mexican citizens crossing the border illegally are reasons why the Mexican government wants things to stay the same.
I think in the end the Mexican government is most responsible for the poor living conditions in Mexico. However, America is the enabler that prohibits Mexico’s cycle of poverty from ending anytime soon.
I’m glad to see Mexico is considering building a wall. Hopefully it will force Guatemala to take care of her own people.
“I’m glad to see Mexico is considering building a wall. Hopefully it will force Guatemala to take care of her own people.”
. . . uhm, you don’t see the hypocricy in your statement Alex?
…uhm, I don’t. I think you are assuming Alex is some bleeding-heart liberal who wants amnesty. If you read his comments closer, Alex (who previously called himself JT) is probably closer to your position on immigration than to Art Pedroza’s.
Geoff, it’s a little bit like having a relative that is an addict. You love them but at some point in time you have to put your foot down and say what they are doing is wrong.
Here in America, we need to take some form of action (build a wall, use E-Verify, force a regime change in Mexico, etc.). If not, Mexico will continue to exceed her carrying capacity and encourage more and more Mexican citizens to come here illegally.
If the situation on the Mexico and Guatemala border is similar, then I think a wall would be a good thing. Plus, if Guatemalan citizens weren’t able to cross into Mexico illegally, they wouldn’t be susceptible to such harsh treatment by Mexico. On top of that, there would be more poor Guatemalans in Guatemala demanding change where it needs to be demanded.
On top of that, there would be more poor Guatemalans in Guatemala demanding change where it needs to be demanded.
Shit, last time they tried that in Guatemala, 100,000 of them were slaughtered. With Reagan’s help.
I agree with you Alex. I do find it funny that the Mexican government is up and arms over walls and other American policies but then hypocritically treats its own illegal immigrants far worse than the American treatments they complain of.
Walls failed in ancient China, as Iron Curtain and in Berlin.
I am so frustrated that you stupid people, Left and Right, can’t learn from the history and keep repeating same mistake over and over again.
Borders do not work!
Prohibition does not work!
Freedom does work!
The only way you can resolve Mexican problem is by issuing visitor and worker permits as temporary resident.
No welfare no support of any kind.
Same like USA citizens must file taxes no mater where they live so should Mexicans file to Mexico and be always Mexicans until they gave up their Mexican citizenship.
But you will never learn and will continue to climb the “spiral of life” without a déjà vu.
Vern, you are referring to their civil war?
That’s unfortunate no matter how you look at it.
I don’t know I’d call it a civil war. It was the vast mass of poor rising up against the tyrannical regime, just like in Honduras and El Salvador, and our government gave aid and advice to the dictators. It was the kind of thing we were just fantasizing they would try again. Maybe they’d be more successful this time, now that we don’t have some cold-war pretext to prop up their oppressors.
Yeah, change doesn’t necessarily have to be violent. Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. have proven that. Plus there are plenty examples of democracies around the world were the ballot box has replaced the rifle.
According to this article, 200,000 people died during the entire 36 years. It definitely sounds like they have one messed up government:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/latin_america/jan-june11/timeline_03-07.html
Alex, Good news!
From the NY Times;
By DAMIEN CAVE
July 6, 2011
AGUA NEGRA, Mexico — The extraordinary Mexican migration that delivered millions of illegal immigrants to the United States over the past 30 years has sputtered to a trickle, and research points to a surprising cause: unheralded changes in Mexico that have made staying home more attractive.
A growing body of evidence suggests that a mix of developments — expanding economic and educational opportunities, rising border crime and shrinking families — are suppressing illegal traffic as much as economic slowdowns or immigrant crackdowns in the United States.
For the full article;
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/06/world/americas/immigration.html
Well… that’s really good news if it’s true.
Hey. Maybe I could go down there and get a job. You think they’d let me?
Americans better watch what they wish for, them walls work both ways!
Yes, we are in real fear of millions flocking into Mexico and flooding the seas off Miami with rafts headed towards Cuba. Annonster, are you really so far gone that you think there is a real chance of American’s fleeing into Mexico illegally for a better life. Even if they tried, the Americans would end up in prison as required by the Mexican laws.
“Americans better watch what they wish for, them walls work both ways!”…… I totally agree.
We can already see that during the spring break when government check students IDs and will not allow under 21 to Tijuana to drink.
And worse.
Geoff, here’s a website that I think could save your life (good luck);
http://solojourney.org/stick-in-ass-syndrome-a-dangerous-yet-silent-killer/
That is good news if it’s true and stays that way. I especially like the part about education.
Mexico is such a beautiful area. As long as most people are happy and have a high quality of life, why would anyone want to leave?
Once they get a rein on organized crime and corruption, I bet tourism will pick up too.
Yes, all of the cartels are hiring and there is full employment for all willing to take those jobs. Unfortunately there is death for those that don’t but that’s just details.
You’ve just been trying to show how much better Mexico is than Central America, and tacitly suggesting that we should emulate Mexico’s policies on immigration enforcement … and anonster comes on with some documentation that Mexico IS improving and undocumented immigration from there is decreasing dramatically…
but you can’t help your xenophobia breaking out and proclaiming that Mexico is nothing but drug cartels and assassinations. I guess that’s so that we can yell “USA! USA! USA!”
I haven’t noticed you coming straight out yet and saying what you mean by this whole post. It’s coy so far…
“Yes, all of the cartels are hiring and there is full employment for all willing to take those jobs. Unfortunately there is death for those that don’t but that’s just details.”
Want details? This is why people like Vicente Fox is calling for an end to the drug war and legalization in Mexico. Legalize, tax and regulate it and put a dent in the cartels’ power and influence. It would also lessen the flow of cartel’s influence on our border towns like Yuma and El Paso.
You probably know this already but Vicente Fox is by no means a bleeding heart, hippie liberal.
To quote Stan “Prohibition does not work!” (yeah, yeah I know. He makes a good point though) Mexico is proof of that and 40,000 dead in Mexico can’t be wrong. But I don’t hear the chest thumping “limited government” advocate from Mission Viejo showing any concern about that. I suppose you believe that the fiscally responsible thing is to continue to finance this Drug War which was started by Richard Nixon and escalated under your Republican patron saint, (***in hushed reverent tone***) Ronald Wilson Reagan. (Remember “Just Say No?”)
You came out and write an article blaming Obama for the shenanigans there No, we’ve been financing this crap for 40 years now and Obama is doing his part to kowtow to the Prohibitionists, police and their corporatist masters in Big Pharma. While I don’t have any doubts about the report that you unveiled or the Obama Administration’s part in the ATF controversy (given my overall cynical nature about government and their justifications to continue this Drug War), it seems awfully disingenuous of you to act “concerned” about a policy in Latin America that we have been financing for 40 years now. Where was your concern in 1971 or the 1980s when “Mommy” (Nancy Reagan) got her way with the “Just Say No” campaign which escalated this Drug War and lead to all of the current problems in Latin America today? Or the fact that we propped up some of these puppet governments in Latin America with our tax dollars so that they could run drugs for the CIA? Real fiscal responsibility there I tell ya!
I guess that comrade Vern will object to this story on the grounds that we, the USA, are not like terrorist Mexico so we, the USA, must allow immigration from Terrorist Mexico into our country.
By doing so, he will obviously omit the word “illegal”.
He beat me to it!
Oh. Did somebody say something about Mexican immigration into the US? I didn’t see that in the article, or in my comment.
Obviously comrade Vern!
It was commented on as “in contrast” to your believes which you are publicly promulgating.
In addition your statement: “I’m glad we’re better” supports my comment.
“better” than what?
Mexico oppressive of the immigration?
In fact, you are suggesting that we are not oppressive of an immigration and if the numero uno immigrants come from Mexico, you are commenting and favoring on the Mexican immigration into the US.
The biggest reason Mexican immigrants don’t get thrown into jail en masse as in this story, isn’t actually because we’re so damn nice, as that we NEED their cheap labor – many businesses do, and everyone well-off enough to have gardeners, maids and nannies.
I’m not sure what the Guatemalans do in Mexico. In the old days Gustavo would have come on here and told us, but I think he’s been boycotting this blog since I insulted his star reporter R Scott Moxley.
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2011/03/the-once-great-r-scott-moxley-fluffs-jim-righeimer/
Interestingly Vern, the reason that Mexico is policing the immigration issue so aggressively now is because of their signficantly better standard of living than the Central American countries to the South.
Mexico’s GDP per capita is $10,100 (higher than the world average of $9,300.) Here, in descending order, is the GDP per capita of each Central American nation:
Costa Rica $10,100 , Belize $6,800 Guatemala $5,200, El Salvador $5,100,
Honduras $ 2,800, Nicaragua $2,400
Why “Ask Mexican” if you can ask 1/2 Mexican, the better half of my Mexican wife.
The biggest reason Mexican immigrants don’t get thrown into jail en masse as in this story, isn’t actually because we’re so damn nice, as that we NEED their cheap labor – many businesses do, and everyone well-off enough to have gardeners, maids and nannies.…….. Correct!
It is because the USA industry still believes (and can function only) in the supply and demand economy — same as I do.
We use to had nice program called “brasero” to stultify this free market equation which was killed by Mexican communist and Union thug César Estrada Chávez and because we are so nice, in your words, we have enacted national holiday to celebrate this anti free market union terrorism every March 31st.
I usually celebrate this holiday by hugging bottle of Vodka crying: “Why Me”
we NEED their cheap labor – many businesses do, and everyone well-off enough to have gardeners, maids and nannies.
I should have included: everyone who buys produce; everyone who buys fast food; everyone who likes to get their car washed; … am I forgetting anything?
Everyone who wants cheap weed for a cheap high. (Trust me, some of their product really sucks compared to product from places like Mendocino County)
“We use to had nice program called “brasero”
So nice;
California State University, Chico
THE BRACEROS: An untold story
…. The abuses began before they even left Mexico. At recruitment centers in major central and northern Mexican cities, they could wait for days or months for a contract, paying bribes, running out of money, and sleeping in parks with no facilities.
Those selected were sent by train to the border, where they were herded naked into a room, examined ignominiously, then sprayed without explanation or permission with a white powder for lice.
Ranchers would pick up the braceros at the borders and transport them to the camps. Many workers didn’t know where they were going or what to expect. Although the bracero treaty called for contracts to be written in Spanish, often they were in English, and the braceros did not understand what they were agreeing to.
Contracts specified a five-day work week, but many growers forced braceros to work seven days, doing extra jobs like washing cars, cleaning, and gardening for no extra pay. Braceros were dismayed to discover a major flaw in their contracts: When the weather was bad, there was no pay at all, and some braceros were out of work for months, struggling to eat. Access to water was difficult, and some died of dehydration.
Under the agreement, 10 percent of braceros’ pay was withheld, to be transferred to individual savings funds in Mexico. However, most workers never received the money………
Anonster, even though you did not post it as so, I assume that this comment is in response to Mr. Fiala’s comment. As described the “braceros” implemented many years ago was abusive, though not nearly as abusive as the practices undertaken by the Mexican government TODAY in dealing with illegal immigrants entering Mexico TODAY.
Gee Geoff,
The fact that I quoted Fiala might have clued you in to the subject of my comment, obviously you’re a little (or a lot) slower than the average juice reader, not my problem.
BUMPER
Anonster, your attempts to establish intellectual superiority are sad. Rather than calling you dumb for hitting the wrong button marked “reply,” I tried to make light of your mistake – evidently too subtle for you. YOU HIT THE WRONG BUTTON AND REPLIED TO THE MAIN POST INSTEAD OF THE POST ON WHICH YOU WERE ACTUALLY COMMENTING. I hope that clears things up for you. I would assume that you have had your button identification/hitting problem identified as a disability giving you the right to one of the cool blue parking passes.
Geoff,
I sincerely doubt that ANYONE on this blog was confused by or even noticed my “mistake”. I certainly wasn’t troubled by it.
The fact that you felt it necessary to point it out, just like my spelling error before, says far more about you and your “issues”.
The truth; I’ve bruised your big fat ego and this is your PETTY way of getting back at me.
Oh, ouch! LOL
Based on your allegations most, if not all, abuses happened on the Mexican side.
Now all these abuses were replaced by rape, kidnapping and murder by coyotes.
So what is better you moron mongoloid socialist?….. Huh?
gw anoster is one of those great public employees who drain our money .. also like a true far , far left lib snob . thinks she is better than everyone .
Shut up Grate One. Any loyal reader of this blog – which I thought you were – knows that anonster is a small business owner. And how come you can never spell her name right?
like a true lib dont like another view = shut up , i guess free speech to libs only goes one way . i do follow this blog . the subjects lately i dont care about so i stayed off . i only come on here when something suits my fancy .
It’s just lame of you to assume she’s a public employee just because you don’t like her and she’s a liberal. And can pummel your head into vertigo with her facts and logic.
oh yes her facts from the daily kooks and huffington post . facts to libs is like kryptonite to superman
Wow, that’s deep, Grating One. As always, your insights are truly substantive and meaningful. And SO persuasive! Please, do keep coming back and share your persuasive arguments with us again.
sure anon just like all the other crap the far left puts on here .
how many of those people came from Orange County Ca?
All you read is headlines? These people were from Guatemala and snuck into Mexico, Cook. Read a little bit of the stories sometimes!