One of my concerns is that we have an election for city council in Mission Viejo in a few weeks in which there are amateurs trying to spin their credentials and lie on their web site.
Case in point is Dave Leckness proudly stating on his web site that the current and 7 former mayors of Mission Viejo have endorsed him for Nov 2nd election.
Today I received an email from one responding to my Republican Party Endorsement Committee post and spoke to another on a phone call.
While named on Dave Leckness’s website both of these former mayors have denied issuing an endorsment to Mr. Leckness.
Following is an email just received from one of these former Mission Viejo mayors.
“First, I have never endorsed Dave Leckness in any way. I only became aware that Dave Leckness had put me down as a person that endorsed him after reading comments responding to Larry Gilbert’s article on the Orange Juice Blog.
After becoming aware of the situation I called Dave Leckness on the morning of Thursday, September second and told him that I was not endorsing him and asked him to remove my name from his website. Additionally, I gave him a couple of reasons that I would not endorse him. He interpreted my signing his nomination form as an endorsement.
Second, if I thought he would have interpreted my signing his nomination form as an endorsement I would not have signed it. He never asked me to endorse him which I view as totally different from extending a courtesy to someone that I have known for several years (I met Dave through Larry Gilbert in the mid 90s), serve with him on the City Council and actually like as a human being.
John Paul Ledesma”
Gilbert note: While there may be those who disagree with me on a wide spectrum of issues, Integrity is very high on my list of attributes I demand of myself and all candidates I consider for elected office.
Larry, there is no endorsement section on Dave’s website. Where did you see it?
Ha, they’re probably fixing it up right now, now that they’re in trouble thanks to Larry.
Vern and other readers. Before attending the GOP central committee meeting on Aug 31st I printed a page from Dave’s web site to show everyone in the room. I have that page in my hand right now.
In the upper left hand corner it reads:
“How many former Mission Viejo mayors Endorse Dave Leckness?”
Several people verified seeing it themselves, including others that I handed it to.
I printed the original on 8/31/2010
I see that his webmaster, our old buddy Dan Avery, has made an attempt of damage control as I just received a call from another activist who read the post and questioned the web site wording.
I printed the same (current) page which now reads:
“How many former Mission Viejo Mayors Signed the 2010 City Council Nomination Papers for Dave Leckness?”
As part of my SWOT analysis I checked every candidates nominating pages some time ago and saw all those who signed Dave’s papers. Signing a nominating paper is NOT an endorsement. I even called John Paul Ledesma about it before posting it.
Therefore this lame effort to cover up a lie will not be ignored by the activists in our city.
Wow! Amazing revelation. Both the mayor and mayor pro-tem (Trish Kelley and Dave Leckness) get busted for lying. Throw the bums out.
Larry, Larry, Larry,
I just spoke to Dave, and he says the website was changed last THURSDAY, 4 days ago, when JP asked him to remove his endorsement. You wrote this today! Not that is really an attempt to be deceptive. All the site says is that JP signed his nomination papers, which is accurate.
So many OJ bloggers, so few spines…..
If the site was changed that implies it was WRONG and that Larry correctly spotted the goof. Larry did not do anything wrong. It would appear that the only fellow with a growing nose is Leckness.
Art, four days late and Larry writes his article like it was a today issue. I guess you and he come from the same “reporting” school. You understand the difference between present and past tense, don’t you?
actually if the site was changed it probably means Dave complied with Ledesma’s objection to his word choice and corrected his error. So quick to judge where clearly Larry made an error here and didn’t include prior to Thursday, Leckness’s web site said…
Of course Dave apologize to Ledesma and corrected his error. I really don’t expect Gilbert to do the same. His level of integrity is nowhere near Dave’s and we all know that.
LBM. Word choice.
Now that’s a new expression for lying to the voters. Bad word choice.
Go back under your rock. don’t insult our other readers.
JP is the one whose reputation in the county has been damaged but you don’t care about that do you?
LBM.
So Dave corrected his error? If the only error was with JP why didn’t he simply remove JP and leave the other ENDORSEMENTS on the web site?
If you read Frank Ury’s email, which I possess, he states that he is SUPPORTING Leckness. He did not use the word ENDORSE.
Other than Trish I do not know, nor do I care to find out, how many of the 8 actually have endorsed Dave.
Larry’s nose is growing.
Hey clown. For starters I do not waste my time looking at Dave’s web site for a daily dose of Dan Avery’s work. I did look on the 31st in preparation for the Central Committee meeting.
The email sent to “Friends from John Paul Ledesma is dated at 11:32:45 AM today. It was that email that triggered my post.
As its a Holiday I have not been on line and in fact was out for several hours with my family.
The web site change does not dismiss the lie. If It had not been covered in the Juice post who knows if the lie would ever have been uncovered. John Paul Ledesma receives a direct copy of my posts. Several Republicans who know JP and myself were shocked at his alleged endorsement and told me so last week.
Dave and his team got caught. JP did not notify me of any conversation he may have had with Leckness prior to today’s email that he sent to a broad distribution list.
Don’t us the calendar to shift the focus away from the original attempt to deceive voters.
Dave and I both served in Rotary Club of Mission Viejo.
#1 of the 4 way test of the things we say and do. “Is it the truth?”
The irony is that Dan Avery’s wife was president while I was a member of the MV club
Fact: On Dave’s website dave4citycouncil.com it states: eight (8) former Mission Viejo Mayors have signed (which is the ultimate endorsement) 2010 Mission Viejo City Council Nomination Papers.
John Paul Ledesma called Dave Thursday morning and politely asked if Dave could remove his name from the list of endorsers on the website because he’s getting some heat from the Republican Party. Dave said “no problem and that he understood” he would change the word “endorsers” to “signers” which he did. Trish Kelley was denied the Republican Party endorsement on Monday night because she is supporting Dave, a democrat.
The Republican Party evidently, is coming down hard on any local republican who supports a democrat.
Thanks,
John Lusk
John Lusk.
Signing a nominating paper for a candidate is NOT an endorsement.
In fact, I have been asked to sign a card granting permission to use my name when I have endorsed a candidate to avoid any future disagreements as to the authenticity of said endorsement. That’s what pro’s do when using political figures.
This was no misunderstanding. Do you have any idea of the number of people who read our blogs or the number of Republicans who were upset with JP after I mentioned this bogus claim?
I’m sorry doesn’t cut it. What about all those who JP fails to reach who are under the impression that he in fact, being a true Conservative Repubican, endorsed a liberal Democrat?
John. This post is not about the GOP endorsing committee and Trish Kelley. It’s about Dave being caught with false information on his blog which he encourages voters to read.
Trish Kelley was denied the Republican Party endorsement on Monday night because she is supporting Dave, a democrat. The Republican Party evidently, is coming down hard on any local republican who supports a democrat.
! Imagine if we did that to Jose or Lou! I don’t like that they endorsed Republicans over Democrats, but I’m proud I’m in a big tent party, not one that’s turning fascist.
Vern,
But it really hurts your party when Reeps get endorsed.
I am tired of the whole party mess, personally, and prefer being above the fray as a Decline to State voter.
Leckness needs 10 handlers following him around, calling his lies “mistakes.”
The biggest damage was to Ledesma, as people thought he had flipped out when his name was listed among Dave’s phony endorsements.
I just spoke to Dave (he doesn’t do the blog thing) he says “sorry Larry, those eight great former mayors signed my Nomination Papers and each looked me in the eye, its public record”.
-John Lusk
PS. Make sure your candidates have their vehicles properly registered this time.
John,
If JP signed the papers then he is a dumbass. When you nominate someone for a public office that is a form of endorsement.
Personally I could care less that Leckness is a Dem. I find Dems less objectionable than most Republicans. However, it is an issue in JP’s party so he should have known better.
That Leckness is allied with MacLean is a greater problem than his party registration. I would not want to back anyone affiliated with MacLean, or Frank Ury for that matter.
John. Dave has added comments on my Juice posts.
They looked him in the eye. It’s a public record? What? some eye test?
I saw his nominating papers as soon as he turned them into city hall. I know who signed his papers. I also know that none of Lance’s former friends and peers signed his with the exception of Helen Workun. It’s called engaging in due diligence.
Go back and ask him to recite the Rotary 4 way test. Dave has directly responded which can be confirmed by Art or Vern.
Your sidebar on drivers license is a sign that you are getting angry. We are now into the General election. Kindly stay on the topic if you wish to engage me in any debate.
Pedroza wrote: “If JP signed the papers then he is a dumbass. When you nominate someone for a public office that is a form of endorsement.”
That says it all. Your turn, Larry
So Art agrees….
Let me take you to school on Nominating papers before I go to bed.
To be a candidate for elected office you must find x number of registered voters in the district to sign a specific form. If you can’t get the minimum number of registered voters before the deadline that’s the end of your participation.
Any registered voter can sign. In fact while seeking signatures for ballot measures we ask voters to sign so that we can get the initiative on the ballot. I have told them that signing does not obligate you to vote for the measure or in fact vote for the candidate.
I have witnessed arguments about candidates promoting an endorsement on his literature when the elected official denied having issued that endorsement. That is why I have seen numerous basic forms to be signed for candidates to avoid any confusion.
It was no mistake. If Dave continues to argue that it was only confirms that he does not understand politics yet is happy to be in the arena.
Did Dave have those he lists sign a form acknowledging their endorsement of his 2010 General election? I don’t think so!
Perhaps I can get someone from Steve Poizner’s campaign to send some forms to Dave. I signed one endorsing Steve for Governor over a year ago.
Dan Avery is a congenital lier !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what is new Larry ???
i thought Kelly was denied the endorsement over lifetime medical benefits and a 400K rose bowl float
Dead white male.
Mayor Kelley was denied by a panel of central committee members for a variety of reasons based upon the one minute testimonies of fellow residents, her voting record, lack of evidence of assisting Republicans (other than herself) and her endorsement of a Democrat (especially when there are 10 other Republicans in the field.)
While I am not a member of the Central Committe, nor have I ran for that office, I have served as the Republican Party/Mission Viejo city captain for Get Out The Vote, GOTV, and organized several voter registration drives. Walking precincts for others is another part of the criteria for consideration for the Republican Party endorsement. It’s not a case of simply being an incumbent. That is why, collectively, Trish was rejected. She even tried to deceive the committee by referring to the recall election candidates when in fact her support of Dave Leckness is in the General. Craig Alexander saw through that cloud of smoke forcing Trish to back pedal.I am pleased that Scott Baugh has thrown down the gauntlet and is making it harder to get the party endorsement.
Larry, thanks for the clarification. I had only heard of the two I mentioned. I noticed you did not mention them and was wondering if those two items, benefits and float, were of importance also.
Just an FYI. This is at the top of the Mission Viejo City Council Nomination Form.
“NOMINATION PAPER
We, the undersigned voters, hereby nominate Dave Leckness for the office of City Council Member for the City of Mission Viejo, California…
John Lusk
John.
While I don’t recognize you by your name, I have been heavily engaged in our city council meetings and races for virtually 20 years. There are many other readers of this blog who can make the same statement where they live.
Nominating papers are NOT the same as an endorsement. There is a major difference.
I do not see that you have ever been a candidate in our city which places you at a disadvantage.
We do appreciate your participation and hope to engage in the debate as the election is getting closer every day.
So, the Leckness practice is to promote false information until he gets caught and then change his story. Despite the spin, that’s what he did.
A person I know thought his name is Dave Reckless. I think his name should be Dave Trainwreck.
Regarding the remarks from readers, anyone who doesn’t know the difference between a nomination paper and an endorsement is too uninformed to comment.
Larry,
It looks like you stirred up a hornet’s nest here. My understanding is that a sitting council member often gets the other council members to sign nomination papers as a courtesy, and as a guarantee that you have qualified registered voters signing – it is not an endorsement simply by virtue of their signing. I will give Dave Leckness the benefit of the doubt and allow that he didn’t know that his attribution of JP as an endorser was in error and give him credit for correcting the error. With that said however, I will also compliment you on holding candidates accountable for their statements and positions, and I hope that same vigilance will extend to those your are supporting in November. I will also confirm that while we don’t always see eye-to-eye on all of the issues, integrity is a quality that is important to both you and I in the candidates we support, and in the way we conduct ourselves in general.
Newbie. Thank you.
While we vet candidates on their credentials and skeletons I admit that I have never asked someone to show me their drivers license. Only confirming that I am not perfect. As the moderator for a Mission Viejo council candidate debate recently I was tempted to ask the question but passed.
i sign my checks on the front and endorse them on the back, two different things
DWM.
That’s what surprises me. Dave does the same thing with his business.
Dave and I have exchanged emails and I will leave it at that. Bottom line. He has changed his web site.
So who was this unnamed mysterious second Mayor Larry. They haven’t come forward and I’m dying to know.
I also wonder at your shock behind this piece. You knew about this on August 3rd when you wrote
“As I look at mayor pro-tem Democrat Dave Leckness I noticed that he has signatures from several Republicans including two former mayors that we booted out of office in 2002. What surprised me is that in addition to RINO Frank Ury I see that John Paul Ledesma has also signed. I called JP as soon as I returned home to have him confirm directly that he, as a conservative Republican, signed the papers for Mayor pro tem Leckness. JP admitted that he had.”
If you were truly concerned for JP, seems to me you would have said something to him then. Instead on September 2nd you wrote:
“JP’s endorsement is a story that only he can answer. Some bridges may never be rebuilt.”
You used the term “endorsement.” Even though you tried to establish yourself as the sole authority on what constitutes an endorsement. The second sentence sure doesn’t sound like a man who is concerned about his friend JP.
Newbie gives you way too much credit I think. Taking a look at your own statements over time shows an amazing lack of integrity.
LBM.
It amazes me as to why I waste my time responding to your garbage.
When I saw JP’s name on Dave’s nominating papers I was surprised and called him to confirm it before issuing that post. My point was that we were hoping that JP would be assisting his replacement rather than signing an incumbents papers.
The bridge reference extends way beyond me. JP has been faithful in attending CRA and CRP conventions, some of which we attended together. Word travels very fast in political circles. He has thanked me for helping clear his name from Dave’s bogus web site declaration. If I had not caught it do you truly believe that it would have been altered?
JP is known to many Republican activists and elected officials from San Diego to Sacramento including Congressmen Tom McClintock and Darrell Issa.
And yes we did boot 2 incumbents out of office in 2002. Register columnist Steve Greenhut wrote about it calling it the Revolution in Mission Viejo. We dethroned former mayors Susan Withrow and Sherri Butterfield. I served as Trish’s campaign manager in that election and have many thank you notes from Trish for my round the clock efforts.
In fact I had the honor of administering the oath of office in swearing in both Trish and JP after the 2002 election. Give me a call and I might show you the photos. Better yet, why don’t you call Trish to confirm it. In his assessment of the 2002 election consultant Scott Taylor, STA, said: “Though I have little first hand knowledge of this campaign, it was brilliant. Kelly’s campaign mobilized volunteers and added the last dimension needed for a sweeping victory.”
Sorry to boast but at times we need to shut up those who constantly attack us for our volunteer efforts.
And let’s not overlook Dan Avery. Mr. Avery beat up on me at the MV council meeting while I was not present, using the Public Comments podium for retaliation for my exposing his lies on Dave’s website. He reported my having appeared, complaining, before our council 258 times between Dec of 1989 and Feb of 2010. Did he do this important research on his own? Get a life.
Funny that during that timeframe I assisted former mayors Gail Reavis, Lance MacLean and four of the current five council members get elected and they did not have any problem with my support. To repeat. Let’s not forget Lance MacLean whom I also supported. This only confirms I need to do a better job at vetting candidates.
Back to JP. It was too late to speak to him when I had no advance knowledge that he in fact had signed.
You have no idea of our relationship that dates back to JP’s support for me in 1994/1996 and my helping him get elected in 1998. We were on a very short list of MV residents that attended his wedding.
As to the mysterious 2nd mayor. It’s none of your business. Your lame attempt to bait me is a joke. The media constantly refers to “unnamed sources” and that is my position, especially after receiving an email from Dave in which he admits I may be right, and I am. If not, why did they change the wording?
I can’t wait for Larry to wake up and read Little Big Man’s post. How is he going to squirm out of his own statements is anyone’s guess?
-John Lusk
John Lusk.
Wake up? I attend a prayer breakfast at 6 a.m. every Thursday.
Perhaps I just might add you to my lengthy list.
Try it, it might do you some good to be thankful for all you enjoy in this country.
John. I await your reaction to my answers.
John Paul Ledesma signed my nomination papers for this election. In no way did I EVER construe his signing of my papers as an “endoresement” of my campaign for the city council.
In fact, after he signed, I thanked him and asked that he consider endorsing me in the future. To date, he has not endorsed me, and that’s OK.
There’s a huge difference between someone signing nomination papers as a courtesy, and endorsing someone’s positions and qualifications to hold office.
In my view, we need a lot more honesty, and a lot less “spin” or stretching of the truth in politics at all levels.
Sam Mamola
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Mission-Viejo-CA/Sam-Mamola-For-Mission-Viejo-City-Council-10/140837502623934?ref=ts
Sam.
Welcome to the Juice.
Thank you for understanding and commenting on this post.
Sorry that I missed last month’s council challenger forum to introduce myself.
Larry, are you getting stoned with Avery. Sure sounds like it. Actually whatever you’re on must be more powerful. I notice you didn’t even respond to my use of your own words except for that completely transparent attempt to tranfer the responsibility of the bridge comment to some nebulous them on some larger level. Always a sign of a coward. You shoved JP under the bus and even he knows it.
As to a second mayor. There isn’t one.
It’s not like you could have defended yourself at the council meeting because Avery stuck to stuff he can easily prove should you call him on it. Watch folks Gilbert won’t because he knows there is iron and truth in my words.
If you ask me Gilbert, Avery was really just using you to set a context as to why Schlicht owes Mission Viejo an apology for posting to this blog. That was crystal clear to anyone with an actual education that was listening. You brought it up, so it’s fair game. Or are you the only one allow to make slanderous tangental statements?
I think Mr. Lusk is waiting for Godot.
LBM.
I am tired of playing your games. I have candidates to elect who appreciate my time and effort. Find someone else to pick on for your entertainment.
Hey Larry………Do you go to the prayer meeting to have your sins foregiven? Personally,I know a couple of born again Christians who go and I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole. I know why they are born again?Trying to start over . How can you bad mouth and go to church after? Bang goes your credibility! They are still crooked after being so called born again. No thank’s! I would rather pass………being pulled backwards through some water does not solve the problem , However, that’s noble of you to go at 6am .! You can handle the politics!