Does this guy want to outsource the Brea Fire Department to the OCFA?
The union representing the Brea Firefighters interviewed Brea Council candidates at the Orange County Fire Authority’s headquarters, in a leased space, while OCFA union representatives were present. Click here to see the proof – a letter from the Brea Firefighter’s union inviting candidates for the Brea City Council to interview at the OCFA office in Santa Ana.
The Brea firefighters union has spent over $30,000 promoting the outsourcing of their department to the OCFA – for selfish reasons. The Break City Council already voted NOT to join the OCFA, with good reason. According to Brea Councilman John Beauman, the City of Brea saved $6.5 million over the next five years, but NOT outsourcing to the OCFA. Instead, they cut overtime hours for firefighters.
Brea maintained comparable levels of staffing by adding part-time apprentice firefighters to supplement the current staffing levels. The apprentice firefighters have gone through the SAME training as the highly paid veterans, but they cost the city a lot less per hour, without all the crazy benefits and pensions.
Full-time firefighters are not being replaced by part time apprentice firefighters. Every Brea firefighter hired since 1996 started as an apprentice—about 50% of the current department.
If Brea were to outsource to the OCFA they would end up paying more, for less. Click here to read all about that, on Beauman’s blog.
Beauman closes his post by stating that “This election may very well decide who controls Brea politics: the unions—by electing their handpicked candidates—or the community by electing candidates that put community above politics? It took integrity and courage for Mayor Ron Garcia (currently up for reelection) and Councilmember Don Schweitzer (up for reelection in two years) to resist union pressure and the politics that goes with it. There will be a lot of negative politics this campaign season as a result. So, it is up to you to decide who will control Brea’s future regarding fire services and future contract negotiations?”
The Brea firefighter’s union has endorsed Roy Moore and Ric Clough. These guys obviously have agreed to outsource to the OCFA, so the Brea firefighters union can pad their income even more. Hopefully Brea’s voters will reject these union shill candidates!
How do you think Costa Mesa got in the financial pickle it is in? Public Safety salaries, pensions and benefits – and now the unions are showing up at council meetings and passing out “I Support Public Safety” t-shirts and demanding that the council stop playing politics with public safety! Salaries and benefits are already 110% of revenue, yet they refuse to make any significant concessions. The fire department solution was to demand early retirement whichg of course reduces staffing.
The “endorsement letter” is interesting as it states that “a joint interview with Orange County Professional Firefighters and the Brea Political Action Committee” will be conducted with the ”pre-qualified candidates”. According to their website “The Orange County Professional Firefighters Association represents over 800 professional Firefighters of the Orange County Fire Authority and the Laguna Beach Fire Department.” So…the union who wants to absorb the Brea Firefighters is interviewing the candidates and determining who will be endorsed?
Why would any candidate risk the endorsement? Aren’t these minor politicos supposed to hide the fact that they are shills for special interest groups? Ric and Roy you sold out and OCFA didn’t even list you on their endorsement list…oh wait maybe they were trying to hide the connection. FAIL!
Oh ya ! Gar C YA and Switzer both ran on the backs or public saftey but hey that was last time right????
The “endorsement letter” is interesting as it states that “a joint interview with Orange County Professional Firefighters and the Brea Political Action Committee” will be conducted with the ”pre-qualified candidates”. According to their website “The Orange County Professional Firefighters Association represents over 800 professional Firefighters of the Orange County Fire Authority and the Laguna Beach Fire Department.” So…the union who wants to absorb the Brea Firefighters is interviewing the candidates and determining who will be endorsed?
Why would any candidate risk the endorsement? Aren’t these minor politicos supposed to hide the fact that they are shills for special interest groups? Ric and Roy you sold out and OCFA didn’t even list you on their endorsement list…oh wait maybe they were trying to hide the connection. FAIL!
Art,
I think you are reaching here. I have been involved, publically, with the issues and concerns for I believe both sides of the issue.
To understand why some are taking this issue to heart you must understand the voiced concerns from a couple of years ago. When the fire above the hills of Brea and Yorba Linda required a response, Brea Fire had equipment issues and could not respond even based on their own mandates. This became a saftey issue.
I met some of the firefighters at that time since my church was serving food in the field and at the EOC’s to all the first responders. In every conversation I have had with any of them they have NEVER mentioned salary, pensions, or raises. It was always staffing levels and equipment.
I wont deny it may be a motivation for some but the whole salary/pension focus has not been communicated to me. If it has not been communicated to me, then I could also assume the same information has been given to Ric and Roy.
The information or intent of moving to OCFA may not even be an issue in regards to your posting. I have met with Ric on a couple of occasions and he has never said he was goign to go CFA. What he said was the recent decision was done a bit too fast and he would revisit the option with all the facts in front of him. Personally, I think that is a prudent thing to do. If the current decision makes the most sense, so be it. But assert that since he is an analytical thinker and is open to reviewing all the facts or opinions is a bad thing… I wish more of our politicians did that.
I have not spoken with Roy so I don’t know where he is coming from.
In closing I would like to point one more thing out. I was part of a six member Chaplain team that was the first into the inner city of New Orleans after Katrina. I also sat on a couple of local boards and had to miss some meetings. Ric Clough was also a member of one. When I told him that I was going back east, he said so was he. So he does care about all communities. He has also served coaching kids and has spend a lot of time at the Chamber of Commerce promoting Brea to businesses so his dedication to the community is well proven.
I suggest we look at all the facts and ask him where he plans on going and what he plans on doing before we shoot ourselves in the foot trying to demonize someone who is just trying to make the best decisions for the community.
Thanks
It sounds like Mr. Rios has really hit the nail on the head and truly understands what Brea needs for a Better Brea! Thanks Rick.
Rick,
I was in New Orleans too. I managed safety onsite for over three hundred recovery workers.
There is no reaching. Go read Beauman’s post. he spells it our very clearly.
The issue here is union firefighters upset because their overtime got caught. Well, they need to get over it. They each make about double what most Brea residents make. And they have incredible pensions to look forward to in retirement. Lord knows if Social Security will even be there for the rest of us.
It is clear that the union endorsed Moore and Clough in return for their eventual vote to outsource to the OCFA. That simply is not a prudent thing to do to the people of Brea.
Kudos to the council candidates who blew off the meetings at the OCFA HQ. They obviously put the people first, not the public employee unions.
Like Gar C YA??? He wasn’t going to get an endorsement even if he cried like the last time.
John Beauman and Mayor Garcia are Hypocrites. They seem to be the first one’s to start running a dirty campaign by confusing service levels with salary issues. The Firefighters never discussed salary and benefits but focused on service. Mayor Garcia, John Beauman and Don Schweitzer voted to reduce services to the Brea Citizen’s. They have all received Public safety endorsements in the past.
CBP,
Service has NOT been cut. Service levels are the same. The only difference is that your firefighters aren’t making tons of overtime now.
If your city outsourced your fire services to OCFA the overtime would return and your residents would take it in the shorts.
Are you prepared to cut other services to please the firefighters’ union?
Art, I believe the OCFA option was a set contract price. So if they ran thousands of ours of overtime, the bill to Brea would have been the same. Can you confirm or correct me on that one.
If that is the case, I don’t follow how the residents would take it in the shorts. It actually shielded us from unreasonable and extensive overtime expenses.
Also, I beleive there were contract adjustments with caps on increases.
This actually offered the city a better budget planning tool.
” ran thousands of ours ” should be ” ran thousands of hours”…
I need a browser grammer checker.
rick,
Firefox will spell check but I don’t know of a browser that will check grammar. That would be a worthwhile endeavor for some browser company!
Yes, I would have corrected your misspelling of “grammar” as “grammer”
Rick,
There is another wrinkle to this. As I understand it the City of Brea would have LESS control if they went the OCFA route, and to top it off the funding would come out of their general fund. I think the city department is funded in part by property tax revenue. I am no expert on this but look into it if you can.
The OCFA option only serves the union, not the people of Brea.
I see that you are affiliated by the way with some sort of GOP website. You do know that the OC GOP is now against Republicans who seek union support? You may want to have a chat with Scott Baugh about that.
I am currently on the Central Committee but only through the end of the year. Scott, as Chairman, gave the direction as the leader of that body and I do respect his authority to do so.
However, I personally believe it is not a person, or union, or any other private group that ultimately put us in this mess. It was politicians who compramised to pass the budgets/contracts and many of them supported by both major parties in the past. As a parent, my first responsibility is to my family and I think many in union members feel the same way. So it is not unreasonable that someone seek to first benefit themselves –we are not all saints.
But that is why we have elected officials. They are supposed to stand in that gap to tell unions and special interests ‘No’ when it does not make sense. Special interest groups could have asked for the moon but unless our elected officials agree to it, it is mute. My personal feeling is we need to place equal blame on those who agreed to some of these unreasonable demands – some of those people are still in office and even if they have now changed their tune they need to be held accountable. You can go through the list of who’s who in OC politics and I would venture to say at some time in their campaigning career most sought the support of special interest.
A verse comes to mind… “worry about the plank in your own eye before you worry about the splinter in your brothers”. Paraphrased but the point is, self accountability should come first. That is where I respect Scott’s direction. What I think what is missing is, to relate it to my kids, if they ask for candy the decision to give it to them is mine based on good parenting. If special interests groups ask for something it is up to elected politicians to use sound judgment. My kids were not ‘evil’ for asking but if I gave them candy before bed, I need to take responsibility of that decision.
Perhaps a case by case approach would be better.
Probably TMI…
The OCFA contract price was fixed for five years. If the cost of services exceeded the contract price by 7.5% or more, the City of Brea would pay a lump sum payment for the difference, and the contract price adjusted accordingly or continue paying lump sum payments every five years. Also all fire services expenses, including a contract with OCFA comes out of the general fund not property taxes. To go with OCFA now, is to go with them forever, with very little control over future costs. If the Brea FD Reorganization doesn’t save $6.5 million over 5 years, for arguments sake, lets say it saves half that amount at $3.2 million, it still saves more than the $2.5 million with OCFA. The only way to cut costs with OCFA is to reduce services such as closing Station 4 as per two of OCFA’s proposed options.
I wish that was the case Rick, but it isn’t. As posted on my blog, OCFA Option 3 has a built in escalation of 4.5% per year. If the actual cost of services should be higher, Brea’s contract cost would be adjusted upward accordingly; if lower, the 4.5% increase would remain in affect. In other words, there is a “guaranteed” annual cost increase for going with OCFA for the first five years. Fifteen of the 22 OCFA member cities are, what’s described as structural cities, where the cost of services are included in residents’ property taxes; therefore, future increases do not affect their general fund. Every future increase of services would affect Brea’s contract cost, directly impacting the general fund–$10.7 million, or about 20% of Brea’s general fund is for fire services. Unanticipated increases such as future equipment upgrades (other than that already identified), higher than anticipated firefighters’ salaries or other compensation increases, etc., would also be rolled into OCFA’s contract cost.
.
Residents pay the same taxes. So what are you talking about? Take it the shorts???? Open your eyes….Please
If you have four apples and you eat one, how many do you have left ?. most would say three . less , But Art here is using the the same visionary math the talking heads use.and would say MORE of course. A reduction is less no matter how you slice or cut it , (just for Art and his talking heads ADD it).
They are cutting SERVICE, (not to the firefighters) , to the PEOPLE that live and work here in this city . I guess i’m thinking you live here too.
Elections are about knowing what candidates stand for. In this case, the unions are handpicking candidates that agree with their position. If the candidates made it part of their campaign platform, I would be OK with it; than it would be an open and honest debate so the people had a real choice on this issue.
Not true John. You’re speculating again. I believe the Firefighters are looking at candidates with integrity and honor. There is no guarantee any council person will vote a particular way on a particular issue. Unless directed by the City Manager right? Anyway, if the new council deems it better for the citizens of Brea maintain the Local FD and staff to the same levels as Fullerton, Placentia, and Yorba Linda? That would be great.
The vote wasn’t to reduce services, but to provide services at a lower cost via reorganization and working smart that allows us to reduce overtime. Check out my blog, the numbers are all there.
John, there is no Engine 2. There was before….-1 engine is a reduction. It isn’t addition is it? If Joey citizen has 3 apples and Tim and Al take one apple, how many apples are left? Good god man!
Since when is bringing a hidden truth into the public limelight dirty campaigning or the wrong thing to do? This is an important issue for the people of Brea and all taxpayers and it needs visibility so the people can weigh the candidates in the light of day. If Brea goes to OCFA, one more sympathetic council member on the OCFA Board will make it that much more difficult for any other Board member to even attempt to resist union pressure for further compensation and pension increases.
John, When have the firefighters asked for more money since economy suffered a down turn? 1/10 of 1 percent above the median? Remember that agreement? I know that was a long time ago right? I know you gave the manager a raise and he in turm gave two department heads a raise. Come on John what hidden truth? You believe Al and Tim that much? You don’t believe that the Fire Department has serious problems incuding harrassment claims, discrimination reports, faulty equipment, out dated policies, incompetent leadership? It was all brought to your attention and you blew it off. It’s Better in Brea? for some I guess
Since when is it hypocrital to point out OCFA’s involvement in interviewing Brea City Council candidates? Doesn’t the public have a right to know what’s affecting city elections?
Not a problem pointing out…Speculating why? Is a problem…Having angry wanna be politicans exploit it to further your agenda or that of another…Is also a problem. You trusted an previously unemployeed fire chief. That my friend was a huge mistake. Go take a look at Al’s home in the canyon. It’s like the Brea Fire Dpeartment. It looks ok from the front but walk in or around back and it’s in shambles. Check it out….seriously
I’m just an ordinary resident whose tax money contributed to the $15,000 the city paid for an independent study from an ex-assistant City Manager to review the fire options. Once that analysis was completed, the City Manager proposed a completely new option which was not reviewed and then voted on and approved by John Beauman, Ron Garcia and Don Schweitzer. Shame on them for not doing their homework! At least Roy Moore and Mary Siminoff wanted more data before voting. Once again, these 3 council members simply voted with the city manager instead of doing their own research. Why did we pay for the analysis if the 3 council members and the city manager already knew what they wanted to do (keep services within Brea)? Before the study was even completed, the city manager said that the OCFA should be excused and look at other options. Sounds to me like they had already made up their minds. It’s like many of the other decisions these 3 council members make without having all the facts. Did they make the correct decision with fire services? I don’t know. I hope so. All I know is that they voted without knowing all the facts like they did with Chevron and street sweeping.
John Beauman’s blog calls Brea residents that don’t agree with him as “the Dark Side”. How is this city council supposed to work with the residents when they have such blatant disregard and contempt for the concerns of residents? I’m not sure it’s such a wise move to use John Beauman’s blog as the only source for comments made in this article.
Ron Garcia had the endorsement of the unions last time he ran. How can he accept it before and have John Beauman endorse him and condemn other candidates that have this support?
Looks like John Beauman and Ron Garcia are the first to start throwing some mud and hoping something sticks. This is exactly the type of politics that residents are tired of. I heard that Ron Garcia tried to force a private property owner to remove the candidate signs from their property since they would not include his campaign banner with the others. This is the type of political bullying that needs to stop. Especially from the Mayor!
Have you done any research on how the current fire services plan is working in Brea? They voted in this plan that wasn’t reviewed and it would be nice for some data and research about how implementation is going other than political viewpoints. I was hoping you would include some information on how the current plan that was approved is progressing.
I was looking forward to listening to the council at the next council meeting to get updates on these programs, but they cancelled the meeting. Why? Clearly residents are looking for answers to real questions (especially while all this Bell stuff is going on) and our city council is hiding instead of facing residents and answering questions. Why? Shouldn’t they be having meetings prior to the election to show just how good their track record is? By cancelling meetings and refusing to meet with local community groups (Ron Garcia) to share their views, this council majority is hiding. I don’t get it.
Like I said before, I’m just an ordinary resident looking for some transparency and accountability with our city council. With this current council, I just don’t see it. I’m looking forward to a change in the council in November!
Garcia literally cried to get the endorsement from public saftey. Now look at him! No honor. Zero
mistruth,
How long ago was that? Surely it was before your union started trying to get back its lost overtime.
And I doubt he cried, but I am sure the two shills your union endorsed this year cried tears of joy. Now they must be having second thoughts…
This is the same John Bauman who supported: Mike Corona, Craig Hunter, Mike Duvall and Linda Ackerman. Simply put, he has displayed EXTREMELY poor judgement. In the case of Ackerman he said, residency “does’nt matter” because her husband was a longtime advocate for North County. Total BS.
Concerned Brea Resident is spot on. These guys are jockeying for position. The OCFA option is worth looking at.
After all this is a city whose OWN police departments have two questionable shootings (one of an unarmed man) in 14 months. The other by an off duty officer, who at a 9mm bullet in front of his 6 year old. Did’nt read about that in the OCR did you??????
The OCFA option was looked at in great detail over three months, and compared line by line with the Brea options. The Brea Reorganization option is the result of a meeting I had with the City Manager and one of the Battalion Chiefs, which resulting in a strategy meeting by the BFD leadership. I did not support going with OCFA based on the info available, but there were certain features of the Brea options I could not support, one being closing of Station 3. The options already proposed to the City Council were modified accordingly and the info provided to all council members in time to vote at the City Council meeting. One councilmember wanted to delay the vote for more information and one wanted to bring in a outside consultant. It was a political ploy to delay a difficult decision and satisfy the union.
Correction: it should have read “closing station 4” not 3.
Watch how easy it is to discredit some of you (Art Pedroza). You sir stated “service levels have NOT been cut. Service levels are the same. The only difference is your firefighters aren’t making tons of overtime now….”
Why don’t you, like some of our council members should, find the FACTS before they talk like they know what they are talking about. I spoke with a couple of firefighters in the grocery store and they stated that a brea fire engine at Station 2 has not been in service since Saturday. How could service levels not be cut and stay the same if Friday we had a particular fire engine in service and now we don’t.
I’m I missing something here? Or I guess Beauman’s Blog is just a great resource for factual information.
It looks like the Brea union sock puppets are out in full force…
Nice picture! Where can I buy one of those. I guess I may be a “union sock puppet”, but you still had no reasonable, logical or intelligent answer for my statement. As one of your idols said on his blog, “people just full of half-truths and mis-information.” Now that I absolutely agree with!
Hi Art,
I met you when you ran the comic book store in the Brea Marketplace and later when you worked briefly at the Register. At the time you lived in Santa Ana and were involved in Santa Ana politics. Have you moved back to Brea? If not, what or whom motivated your blog posting about Brea?
You write: “As I understand it the City of Brea would have LESS control if they went the OCFA route, and to top it off the funding would come out of their general fund. I think the city department is funded in part by property tax revenue. I am no expert on this but look into it if you can.
The OCFA option only serves the union, not the people of Brea.”
Other than John Beauman’s blog, which is only one person’s opinion, where are you getting your information? Did you attend any of the many Fire Services Meetings? Have you talked to any of the Firefighters? I attended many meetings and from what I observed the council majority chose to vote for the Fire Management Association and the City Staff Association, both also bargaining groups. Both Fire Management and City Staff Associations had representatives speak during council meetings and directly state that they supported the City Manager’s reorganization plan “to avoid demotions” and “to protect city staff positions”. I never heard the Firefighters Association state similar yet they are the only group that was, and continues to be, labeled “self serving”. Fire Management and City Staff positions were protected while public safety services have been cut. Council majority voted to eliminate a Police Dispatcher position even though the staff report stated that “residents calling 911 may be placed on hold multiple times”. In a perfect world no one would suffer a cut but especially in this economy it’s certainly not a perfect world.
You opened this blog post with Ric Clough’s campaign picture and what read to me as a rather negative slur “Does this guy want to outsource the Brea Fire Department to the OCFA?” Did you contact Ric Clough and ask Ric for his input? I attended a meeting where Ric was asked if he would revisit the Fire Services decision and he said that he would “revisit it”. Ric did not say that he wanted to outsource to OCFA.
Does a council person not have an obligation to revisit the issue to make sure the new plan, which was quickly put together and just as quickly approved by current council majority, is working, the safety of the public is not jeopardized and the projected savings are on track to being achieved? How are council members, current or future, properly representing the citizens of Brea if they don’t follow-up on such decisions? Are they just going to allow others to dictate their actions and assume that the plan is working?
It’s disappointing that one that cautions that “there will be a lot of negative politics this campaign season” is the first to throw mud.
Debbie,
Sorry for the late reply. My seven year old had his back to school night and then I had to go to an FPPC meeting. Just got out.
Those were fun days in Brea, many years ago. I have since completed two college degrees and become an expert in occupational safety, not to mention my teaching job at Cerritos College.
As for why I am writing about Brea, perhaps you missed it but the Orange Juice is an Orange County political blog. Go ahead and have a look around our blog. We write about politics all over the OC.
I am personally opposed to greedy public unions that would rather hurt their residents if it means stuffing their wallets even more. Given the financial straits of many cities in California, precisely because of their public safety unions, I would think you would be sensitive to that. Believe me, the voters are.
The bottom line in Brea is that residents have excellent fire service, and are now saving a ton of money that can be used for other city services.
As for this guy Clough, he clearly was endorsed on a quid pro quo basis. Just watch. If he wins he will vote to outsource to the OCFA. I guarantee it. That is how these deals work.
Debbie Louis,
I could not of said it any better. It is very disturbing to see people like Art Pedroza making such comments without any foundation of factual information. I applaud you and your comments. And if he does not live in Brea, I take extreme offense to his involvement in commenting on my family and I’s safety.
dark side,
You are aptly named. I made sure to link to Beauman’s site, and he most certainly is an expert in these matters. It is rare to see a Councilman be so open, but he is not running for reelection and as such is free to stand and deliver.
As for this ridiculous notion that you have to live in Brea to write about it, Debbie already pointed out the fact that I once ran a business in town, but that aside, the Orange Juice blog is not only an Orange County political blog, it is the OC’s FIRST political blog. This story was our BIGGEST story today. Clearly our readers found it compelling. Can’t blame them. Public union greed is on everyone’s minds nowadays.
Art,
I would appreciate you getting your facts straight before you print irresponsible blogs. First off, I resurrected the idea of going to OCFA, not the fire union. I had the idea at the budget meeting the city held. I conducted all my own research, came up with rough figures and presented it to council in February of 2009. It took me six months to push them into looking at it and pushing the union into paying for the study. That’s your precious $30,000. It was the cost of the study paid for by the union or moreover its members not some fantasy campaign. And so you have your facts straight, Brea’s firemen would have lost money if the regionalization occurred.
In the process, I attended every meeting and even met with numerous council members throughout Orange County; speaking with two County Supervisors and mayors. I had 17 councilmen and woman calling Beauman for discussions on their experiences and he never called a single one back. As for the overtime, OCFA is a static agency…meaning that when overtime occurs, it’s backfilled at their expense, not the cities.
In regards to this new plan, our CM wants our citizens to be served by only 11 firefighters instead of the usual 14 and if overtime occurs, they will backfill by reducing personnel from other stations. It even goes so far as to state that a firefighter will now act as a Captain. Do you have any idea what type of liability a city can incur from that type of decision?
As for me, I am not a fireman. I am not running for office and I am not endeared to anyone in this City; councilman, ex-mayor or candidate. What I am is a father, a husband, a citizen who understands that in times of sacrifice, public safety is the last area you cut from. Why didn’t you interview me as well as Beauman? I guess you didn’t want the truth; just something to blog about.
Next time you decide to blog on a topic you have never studied, keep your fingers away from the keyboard. It is irresponsible comments like yours that do more harm than good.
Paul,
Irresponsible? What is irresponsible is your highly paid union firefighters trying to screw the people of Brea with this OCFA deal that is not needed. Shame on you for going along with this scheme!
Why pray tell did you resurrect this OCFA proposal? What is your grift? As you noted, the union paid for the study. It is as such very funny that it backfired and they lost their overtime.
Your city is pretty tiny. I don’t see why 11 firefighters couldn’t handle it, if indeed what you are saying is true. Plus you already have mutual aid agreements with other cities and the OCFA. Most of the fire services provided today are actually paramedic services. In the event of a wildfire, the mutual aid agreements kick in.
For a guy who is not a fireman you sure have invested a lot of time in trying to help this union. What is your deal? Public safety is eating up the majority of most cities’ budgets, mostly due to ridiculous pensions and early retirement. Do you support that? What will you tell your neighbors when your schemes result in cuts in other important city services?
If anyone is being irresponsible I submit that it is you!
Scheme? There’s no scheme here. This is called regionalization; a way of delivering services to a larger area with less costs. And you said it yourself; This city is pretty tiny so why do we need our own Fire Department.
As for your 11 firefighters can handle it comment; have you ever been a firefighter? Do you know what its like to do that job? I don’t and I’m sure you don’t know either. As for these ridiculous pensions you talk about, Lynn Daucher, Bev Perry, John Beaumann and Ron Garcia were all in favor of these and rubber stamped them while they served the council. Go ask them what happened.
And thanks for your concern about my neighbors but it is unwarranted. I spoke with over 100 of them (going door to door) during this process and all them were in support of a regionalized department. As for important city services being cut…most of them were also not worried about losing a city funded art gallery or five or six department heads making over $200,000 year.
Paul,
Let me ask you a question. You say you are so concerned about public safety – have you completed CERT training? I am referring to Community Emergency Response Training. I did. I took CERT classes for nine weeks, at the Santa Ana Fire Department.
I am also a First Aid and CPR Trainer – not just an instructor; I can certify other trainers. And I am a Hazardous Waste Operations and Emergency Response Trainer. I also have started Biohazard Abatement and Confined Space Rescue divisions at two contractors. In fact I took a Confined Space Rescue class for a week at the North Anaheim Fire Training facility.
I am also an expert on Emergency Response and Catastrophe Recovery. And I conduct asbestos and lead awareness classes.
So am I a fireman? No. But I am very much aware of the hazards associated with firefighting. As a CERT member I can be called into service by my local fire department in case of a large scale catastrophe.
When you spoke to your neighbors did you tell them the entire story? Or did you just read from the union talking points? I wonder.
By the way, how much do YOUR firefighters make? You know the answer so why don’t you share that with our readers. I think they will be quite shocked.
Mr Ruiz is a police officer and thus a public safety union member. So, why woulnd’t his sympathies lie with the union.
I should have followed my comment “In a perfect world no one would suffer a cut but especially in this economy it’s certainly not a perfect world” with the question – should council majority choose cuts to the public safety of Brea residents before cut-backs to upper management earning upwards of $200,000 per year plus generous benefits?
Debbie,
Cut them both! I have no issue with doing that. I agree that public city managers make too much money.
What ever you do do not look at LA County for fire services. When the budget problems started LACOFD did nothing but increase their cost. While the other city employees bit the bullet, the fire department sat back and made no cuts. Yes they have all the “bells and whistles” when it comes to trucks and equipment but maybe it is time to look into regional fire coverage.
I am shocked and dismayed at the volume of misinformation, hearsay and outright fabrication being presented as fact. And I’m getting sick and tired of folks who have no vested interest in our community wading in under the guise of journalistic license. Who do you think you’re fooling?
Oh… wait… you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time. Shame on you.
This election appears to be turning into the most chaotic, mudslinging, propagandized and potentially catastrophic election we’ve witnessed in quite some time. I pray that the voting public is able to sort out some fraction of the truth before they mark their ballots.
The Doc,
Might want to self medicate. You seem to be a bit hysterical.
I think it is pretty funny how many of you union sock puppets are crawling out of the woodwork, all with the same talking points. Hilarious!
You have no idea how many hits this post has had today. Huge. Looks like your union scheme isn’t going to pay off after all…
And the news gets worse for your side…http://brea2010.blogspot.com/2010/09/just-facts.html
WOW! I started reading through the supposedly “new” blog Art posted about – “And the news gets worse for your side…http://brea2010.blogspot.com/2010/09/just-facts.html”
and had to go back to the top to make sure I wasn’t on the Spirit of Brea blog http://www.johnbeauman2.blogspot.com aka SOB blog.
This supposedly “new” blog states: “Councilmember John Beauman has a monthly blog that provides an overview of the fire decision and BFD reorganization plan. You can go to his blog at: http://www.johnbeauman2.blogspot.com”
After reading both blogs I don’t think there’s any need to go from one blog to the other blog as both express pretty much the ame opinion with EXACTLY THE SAME PICTURES. WOW – what could possibly explain such an amazing coincidence of two completely different blogs being so similar? As John Beauman asked in an email notification “who knows how many more blogs will pop up?” Yes indeed, “who” knows how many?
I’ve never seen people quote from other opinion blogs as if they’re referencing factual information and/or refer to their own blogs as “facts”. I’m reminded of the saying – “opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one”.
Debbie,
So what? Does that make the facts any less true?
Again, how much do your firefighters make per year? Why won’t you people answer such a basic question?
Art,
Much of what is being stated on these blogs is not “facts”. It is opinion. Plus when one goes on with surprise about “oh look what popped up” and it turns out to be a carbon copy of their own original blog it has even less credibility.
According to information published on the City of Brea website the Fire Department base salaries plus benefits are: Fire Chief=$262,544; one Fire Battalion chief=$240,354;three Fire BC-PDP Level4=$219,689 each; Fire DC Admin.=$244,480; four Fire Captain Paramedics from $169,018 to $172,618 each; nine Fire Captains from $151,111 to $170,649; seven Fire Engineers from $128,402 to $134,998;Eight Fire Engineer/Paramedics from $126,518 to 151,304; seven Firefighters $108,287 to $121,559; Four Firefighter/Paramedics from $126,518 to $137,865; one Firefighter-Bilingual=$101,220;
As you complained about “you people” not answering “a basic question”, which in fact could not accurately be answered with a basic answer, why didn’t you answer the questions I asked in my first post on this blog? I’ll repeat them:
“Other than John Beauman’s blog, which is only one person’s opinion, where are you getting your information? Did you attend any of the many Fire Services Meetings? Have you talked to any of the Firefighters?”
Did you contact Ric Clough and ask Ric for his input? Although you did not answer the question you wrote another negative slur against Ric – “As for this guy Clough, he clearly was endorsed on a quid pro quo basis.” To me one would have to have direct personal knowledof a person to make this type of negative comment. Have you met with Ric? If not what or whom are you basing your negative opinions on?
Does a council person not have an obligation to revisit the issue to make sure the new plan, which was quickly put together and just as quickly approved by current council majority, is working, the safety of the public is not jeopardized and the projected savings are on track to being achieved? How are council members, current or future, properly representing the citizens of Brea if they don’t follow-up on such decisions? Are they just going to allow others to dictate their actions and assume that the plan is working?
Debbie,
Thanks for the salary info. Did you know that the median household income in Brea is $84,000? So your union firefighters are already making way over that. If they are married to a professional who makes about $50,000 a year, their household income is as much as $200K a year – and they still want more taxpayer money! That is outrageous!
As for Clough, I am not given to talking to union shills. He has been heavily damaged by our post, which is being widely circulated via email to Brea residents. I think he is toast. Good riddance.
It’s funny how all you uninformed, irresponsible, crap stirring people come out from under a rock and result in name calling….Now that’s hilarious and childish.
Identifying something (OCFA union involvement) that has been carefully hiden from the public is not mudslinging. Look at the significance of the issue and stop trying to turn the argument into something it isn’t.
Art continues to shake up the jar of BEE’S!
Thats why I love him. Nobody else takes this stuff on. The LOC wishes “Happy Birthday” to the mayor. The Red County blog WORKS FOR MEG WHITMAN.
Meanwhile, some stirring, albeit debateable stuff is written here and look what happens!
EXCELLENT POST PEDROZA.
kenlaysnotdead,
Thank you! I was amazed to see this post blow up the way it did. Apparently now similar posts are popping up all over town.
The Brea elections are now chock full of drama and definitely worth watching…
The only stuff he should be taking on is the dirty politics in the county….oh wait.that’s what he’s doing. Half truths and rumor
Ya Bravo! If you like BS and nonsense.
Art, I appreciate you bringing this issue to the table. When opponents don’t have an answer for an issue under discussion, they create a diversion. What concerned Breans are questioning, including me, is why are interviews for Brea City Council candidates being held at the OCFA firefighters union headquarters in Santa Ana? And why are OCFA union representatives participating in the interviews for Brea city council candidates? It’s obvious that the union’s goal is to outsource Brea’s fire services to OCFA and dismantle the Brea Fire Department. It would give them more political clout. The OCFA and Brea firefighters’ unions (combined) will certainly gain increased political clout by adding a handpicked Brea councilmember to the OCFA Board. It certainly will make it even more difficult for any council member that wants to hold back compensation increases. If candidates are interested in being transparent, than that should be their campaign platform and let it stand or fall on its own merits. Then it becomes an honest debate.
John,
You don’t even know the meaning of transparency. You were close minded to contracting out for fire service from the get go. It was evident on your blog, and the”Vote” you held on you blog. When people agreed with you they were applauded but when concerned citizens opposed your views, they branded as “Union” cronies. You have been disservice to the citizens of Brea. You and the other two are nothing but servants to the city manager instead of servants of the people. If you have any honor left you’ll back off with your support for Garcia, who by the way cried to get an endorsement for employee groups. The Firefighters are trying to preserve the service level that the citizen derserve. Al Nero, Tim O’Donnel, Ron Garcia, Don Switzer, and yourself already dismantled the Brea Fire Department. Your comment about more political clout? What? You don’t even know how it works.. Happy retirement!
I stated from the beginning that outsourcing was an acceptable option if it provided savings not otherwise achievable by an independent Brea Fire Department. I certainly did not start out in favor of going with OCFA, why should I. There were/are serious drawbacks with going with OCFA that concerned me then and concern me now (which I covered in one of my other postings). The Reorganization drives the union crazy because it is innovative and a model that other fire departments may decide to look at. Public safety isn’t about never saying no to the unions. It is about working smart and looking for ways of accomplishing the same level of safety at lower cost. All of which is spelled out on my blog.
It drives the firefighters crazy because you blindly voted for a plan that reduces service. You base your opinions about levels of saftey on the philosophy of Al Nero, who was fired from his last job for incompetence. The daily staffing was 3 engines and a truck. Now it’s 2 engines and a truck. Seems reduced to me. The truck as you are aware can’t pump water. You were looking for an out on this contracting out issue from the get go…you know that to be true. I’m all fro Brea staffing it’s police and fire to the same levels as Fullerton, Placentia, and Yorba Linda. You guys compare apprentices to career firefighters but you have no clue. Zero. You would be shocked for sure. But hey, why believe me? Artie doesn’t
Art, so how long have been friends with Ron “I got elected with public safety endorsement” Garcia? Why don’t concentrate your efforts on Santa Ana. The city in which you live?
mistruth,
Ron isn’t mentioned in my post, is he? I quoted Beauman.
I won’t be cowed by you union thugs. We write about every city in Orange County – including Brea.
Ya? Who’s we? and believe me….you didn’t have to mention Ron but he’s there …..You need to find out ALL the facts before you take a stance on something. Please….has anybody called you a name? So far I the only name calling is coming from you…Ex union sock puppets, and thugs.
Art, more name calling? My kids get put in timeout for that. Mistruth….? ok…. I think I know what your agenda is…. ; )
mistruth,
And we know what yours is. Will the people of Brea support paying their overpaid firefighters even more? I don’t think so.
Hey Art! I heard you were at the town hall meeting at the church…True?
By the way, who is asking for more money? Oh ya! More speculation….
I was at a candidates forum in Santa Ana last night. Did not travel to Brea today. Was busy with paperwork all day.
Who’s “We?”
I meant the town hall meeting about contracting out. I believe it was in late July or early August? Just wondering.
Never has OCFA firefighters been part of a Brea city council endorsement interview panel. Never in the past has there been a price tag—there is now, it’s called outsourcing services to OCFA. Why would anyone agree to open it up for another vote? Do you honestly think the unions will sit on the sidelines? I lived with union pressure for months. The heat will be turned up to blast furnace levels and the Council will cave especially those getting endorsements now. To believe otherwise is to be very naïve. Why all the mudslinging except as a diversion, instead of evaluation what their involvement really means? Why are they doing it and what do they hope to gain? That’s the question that needs to be debated.
It is irresponsible to post misguided malicious rumors about the reasons The Brea Firefighters used their own money to provide a study to contract out. The “Truth” is that the City of Brea has “cheap charlied” public safety for decades. The citizens pay the same taxes as residents in Yorba Linda and Placentia, yet get less service. Could it be that the Firefighters feel that the citizens of Brea deserve more? The fact is, some of the firefighters are taking a pay and benigit cut by contracting out. some are taking demotions. Yet still feel strongly about contracting out. Why? It’s called professional pride.
the mistruth,
Can you tell me of ONE instance where a Brea resident was under-served by their fire department?
How much do you guys make? Please share that with our readers. I know they must be curious.
Art,
For some reason your last response to me is not showing a “reply” button so I’m responding as a new comment.
Do you apply the same opposition to ALL “greedy public unions”?
In the salary post above the six positions with compensation of $219,689 to $262,544 are part of the Brea Fire Management Association (association is aka UNION). This is one of the two Unions that council majority chose to protect.
Yes, I and many others are concerned with the financial straits of many cities as well as every other level of government as well as education. I would not agree with your opinion that the straits are “precisely because of their public safety unions”. There was a good editorial, IMO in Sunday’s Register “Spending more for less – Administrative bloat hurting U.S. higher education”. Another example of cutting services while protecting the top Administrative positions.
Is the best and first remedy, as Brea Council majority chose, to first cut the public safety services of Brea residents before cut-backs to upper management earning upwards of $200,000 per year plus generous benefits? Brea with a population of only 40,000 has 52 on city staff with compensation packages over $100,000 which includes 16 over $200,000 and 3 over $260,000 one of whom is nearly at $300,000. Yet one of the first cuts was eliminating a Dispatch position even though it put residents at risk of being placed on hold multiple times while calling 911 in an emergency. Cuts have been made to senior services, children’s services, public safety services yet the city manager proudly proclaimed at a council meeting that no salary cuts or furloughs had been used to balance the budget. To me, this is outrageous. I would think a little trimming at the top would have been an option. Although Brea’s City Council receives a small monthly stipend Councilmember Simonoff did suggest that council “lead by example” and reduce their monthly stipend. However, his suggestion was not supported by council majority and three votes would have been needed.
“The bottom line in Brea is that residents have excellent fire service, and are now saving a ton of money that can be used for other city services.”
Again, where are you getting your information? A large portion of the “projected” (assumed) “savings” is counting on retirements. In this economy some of those retirements could be postponed and the savings unrealized.
As you have not answered my other questions the only conclusion I can come to is that you are basing your negative slurs on rumor and opinion input from someone attempting to further their own agenda. Many Brea residents attended and spoke at the Fire Services Meetings. While their input was ignored by council majority residents know what took place. Many people, like myself, don’t respond positively to negative “dirty politics” which is what smearing someone by throwing out derogatory labels without even speaking to the person or having direct personal knowledge of their positions amounts to.
I find it unfortunate and disappointing that some in Brea have resorted to this type of “dirty politics” and that you’ve chosen to participate in it. But apparently this how some are choosing to campaign. One candidate even used his “city power” to get other candidate signs removed this week. Fortunately the ploy was exposed and the signs were put back. More “dirty tricks”.
Debbie,
Service was NOT cut. The department is maintaining the same number of firefighters by using apprentices. That sounds quite reasonable.
The bigger issue is that your union firefighters make DOUBLE the average household income in Brea, and still want even MORE taxpayer money via overtime. Greedy!
Once again Debbie well spoken…..and once again ART…sit back down. Debbie how many hours does that include for each person a week? I really can’t imagine that being the base salary…..or is that fully burdened costs? It amazes me Art’s only answer to your blog question is “so what? Does that make the facts any less true?” UNBELIEVABLE! Just another ignorant, drama seeking crooked politician! What a surprise!
dark side,
Your union firefighters make DOUBLE the average household income in Brea, and they still want MORE taxpayer money via overtime. Sounds like they are pretty damn greedy.
Art,
You asked for when instance a Brea resident was underserved? It’s everytime a paramedic engine responds to an incident. In Placentia the residents get 4 career Firefighters. Two of which are paramedics. In Brea the residents get 3 career firefighters and an apprentice (Minimum wage). Last I checked, the Brea residents aren’t getting the savings past along to them in there taxes. They pay the same taxes for less service. A career rookie firefighter gains valuable knwledge through experience and training, working 11 24 hour shifts per month with a minimum of 20 hours of training per month. An apprentice works 4 shifts per month and only aquires 8 hours of training. It is true that apprentices attend the same fire academy as career firefighters. But this is only BASIC training. The real knowledge come as a result of training and experience. I don’t remember if it was you who stated that 50% of the Brea Fire Department were once apprentices. The statement is true. Only because the department would never hold open tests for career positions. Why are you not worried about the fat cats in Fire Administration? The Fire Chief, who by the way only works 3 to 4 days a week and still lives in Richmond…oh and was unemployeed at the time of his hire because he was fired for the same stuff he is doing here, a Operations Chief who is basically just a High School attendance lady, a slug of a Fire Marshal, and a Emergency Preparedness Coordinator who to this day has not developed an evacuation plan for the residents of Carbon Canyon in the event of a large wildland fire…account for approximately $800,000 annually. It seems to me that you have ties to the City of Brea or some of the council or staff…wink wink….. You have already made up you mind and are passing judgement without all the facts just like the 3 irresponsible councilmen Garcia, Beauman , and Switzer. I think you’re running for the School Board right? Sounds about right….You already made up you mind without all the facts and are irresponsible with your comments….So you should be shew in.
mistruth,
Less service? Aren’t they still getting four firefighters? You even admitted as much. The firefighters were once apprentices themselves!
The people of Brea make on average $84K per household. Your union firefighters are making double that! And they want even more in overtime? Greedy!
So the point is…how much do you make?….I think the readers are curious about that too. The salaries and benefits are posted although they need to be validated
Did you even read my post? Wow. Baeuman is actuall responding with your name on on it.
Not 4 firefighters, 3 and an apprentice firefighter. You can’t seem to get that through your head. Visit a fire station and see for yourself. You’ll notice the difference almost immediately. On an incident you will be shocked. But hey, why believe me? I’m a liar and a thief….That’s what you have been calling me. One thing that I have and will alaways have is my honor. A man without honor isn’t really a man at all.
mistruth,
I imagine the union guys probably wear more bling than the hourly apprentices. Probably drive nicer trucks too. Maybe a few gold teeth?
Artie, who uses the term bling anymore? The gold teeth thing is so 80’s. What a dork. You make me laugh. Bet you’d be hilarious to have a beer with.
How much do you make Art? Is that your real concern? When the economy was good no one cared who was making what….People in the private sector were rolling….and all public employees were on a structured salary. Now that some people have unfortunitly been afffected by this downed economy…structure isn’t so bad. So I guess folks get jealous or whatever. I’m am still not surewhat your TRUE agenda is. Help me out.
Mistruth,
The point is, the average household in Brea makes $84K. Your firefighters make $150-$200K, and then if they are married you have to figure they are in the $200K and up range. Do the people of Break know this? And do they know that these union firefighters want to make even more via overtime?
Overtime isn’t the issue….You sound like O’Donnell, and Beauman weird
Wow Art…..your right! This is great blog. Finally sounds like you’ve met your match. Debbie, quick question. Is there any truth to the rumor that even on certain days those paramedic engines don’t even have apprentices? Hey Mr.Beauman, no reply to these statements. Normally you are long winded with no substance. I’m sure you have some sort of ridiculous answer for your actions/statements.
It is true that there are days when there are no apprentices on either engine. On 9/11 there were only 3 people on each paramedic.
Art, If you knew what you were taking about , which you obviously don’t. You can not I rpeat can not compare an apprentice with an experienced career firefighter. Would you go to an apprentice physician? or hire an apprentice lawyer? Having an apprentice on an engine actually takes away attention from the incident, But how would you know? As far as the salaries. I believe that’s with total benefits….so be truthful.. Your $84,000 average is salary only. You do realize that a large majority of Brea residents are elderly and drive that averge down.You’re speculating that ALL firefighters have a second income. You call firefighters greedy. Why? Overtime is not guaranteed. Even in big departments. As far as salaries. Like I said, they have been structured for decades and know one cared. But now it seems to be a platform for the uninformed. You call firefighters greedy….well that’s your perspective. Firefighters in the city of Brea have never had a concern about salary or benefits or overtime for that matter how come you aren’t concerned with what happened in the city of Orange or your boys in Santa Ana? . It has always been about service, leadership or lack of, support from the city manager and staff. Ex City Manager hired Al Nero even after he had br FIRED from the City of Richmond. Nero was fired for doing the exact same stuff. He has hired misfit managers from outside fire departments, these are guys that couldn’t get promoted within there own department. If you only truely knew or cared about the things that go in the inner workings of the Fire Service specifically the Brea Fire Department. As Debbie said, you don’t answer anybodys questions. If you really cared about what was going on, you should walk into any fire station,on any day , and ask anyone…..
mistruth,
If the Brea union firefighters hate their jobs so much why don’t they quit and go apply at the OCFA?
Who said that they hate their jobs? I think I heard Al Nero use that line before…Again…weird
Who said the firefighters hate their jobs? I think they love their jobs but are discusted with the BS that has and continues to occur. John is fully aware of the nonsense but took the word of the Previously fired Fire Chief Al Nero.
Art,
Again you stated without ANY knowledge, “service was NOT cut.” Are you actually reading any of this blog? You sir have to be the most irresponsible politician I have ever seen. No wonder you and John Beauman are twin mouth pieces. Keep repeating your same statments without answering ANY questions Debbie is posing. That’s what today’s politicians do. She has answered ALL yours.
dark side,
Hiring apprentices is NOT the same as cutting services. The only thing cut was the union firefighters’ overtime.
Secondly,
If you are actually reading this post you would of read Debbies answer with regards to your salary statments. You KEEP saying that firefighter make double the average income for a Brea resident. Debbie, correct me if I’m wrong but the salaries you posted are fully burdened? Benefits and salaries correct?
So smart Art, what is the median fully burdened cost average for a Brea resident. Or again just mirror our three puppets…….compare apples and oranges!
What do you know fellow bloggers. Still no answers to questions from Art. ART I ASK YOU AGAIN…….IF SERVICES HAVE NOT BEEN CUT, THEN WHY HAS A FIRE ENGINE AT STATION 2 BEEN OUT SERVICE SINCE LAST SATURDAY? Why don’t you ask your buddies John, Ron and Don. I’m sure they have the answers. I also love how you make it your business if a firefighters spouse works……how does this fit into your business?
dark side,
Good grief. I have been busy on other matters this morning.
Do you think the engine may have been cut due to maintenance issues? That is fairly common. If so, don’t you think the fire department managers are backing it up with other engines?
Can you cite ANY instances where this engine being out for maintenance has hurt a Brea resident? I doubt it.
Define hurt….You mean delayed care for a acute medical patient…..if I said yes would you believe me???? Probably not. I hve not posted one thing that isn’t truthful….Varify it before you discount it.
Arturo,
Man, you amaze me….The engine gets shut down if 1 person calls in Sick or is injured or has a family emergency. It’s not out for maintenance. I don’t know where you are getting your info from, but it isn’t from anybody that truely knows.. that is obvious.
“Member, American Federation of Teachers/AFL-CIO” this quote is from your campaign page. You’re a union member? Wow. Now that’s hilarious
The Brea Firefighter’s Association is also affiliated with AFL-CIO 🙂
So you gonna go visit a station???
mistruth,
Yes, I am proud to be a union member. No, I am NOT being paid $200K a year. Big difference.
Did you know that roofers and truck drivers have a higher risk exposure than firefighters? How much do they make?
Greedy unions are bankrupting cities and our state. You guys need to get a clue. Again, if you hate Brea so much why don’t you quit and go apply at the OCFA?
So are you gonna visit a station?
Arturo. Art….buddy…. see there you go. You and John. Two peas in a pod. I’ll get back to you later. Via con dios!
mistruth,
It’s Vaya con Dios. Not via.
The only firefighters paid $200,000 yearly are Al and his gaggle of gold badges. So by your rational, it’s pay for risk? As an educator how much risk are you exposed to? But I am realistic. I believe that educators deserve better pay. Roofers #1 cause of death is falling off roofs, truck drivers #1 cause of death are traffic related incidents. It’s based on total number of deaths per year and ratio per 100. How much training do roofers and truck drivers get? So firefighters were 13th and roofers were 10th, and truck drivers were 6th. Ok ?
I love Brea….That’s why I am so concerned. I’m all for making the Brea Fire Department a great department. Not based on Salaries or benefits, but with support and leadership. It can’t be done under the current Fire Chief or City Manager. I believe that if both were gone, the outside BCs were gone, and the Department had some REAL leadership, then there would be no need to contract out. That’s what you and John just don’t get.
New phone. Has automatic text. I had a feeling you’d give me a red check mark. Lo siento profesor….
Yesterday afternoon, there was smoke coming from the roof of a neighborhood pizzaria in Brea.
One of the tenents called 911. What turned out to be a small pizza oven fire, drew 30+ fire fighters, six fire apparatus, five police vehicles and one ambulance.
I will try and upload the pictures of the HOOK AND LADDER.
The interesting part however were the fire personell taking snapshots with a digital camera from unique angles. When asked what he was taking pictures of the firefighter replied “documenting what we do”……….I can see the effort now “Fighting to protect Brea” or some equally crazy ad line when this finally comes to a vote.
This is the epitome of a civic scam.
When my kids teach me how to upload from the Iphone I will send pictures.
THIS IS A SCAM!
dkmfan,
I guess now we know why they need a fourth union firefighter on each rig – to take campaign pictures! Scam indeed…
Wow, there were only 3 engines ,1 truck, and a BC on the response. Check the dispatch records. The city of Brea had to have an engine from Placentia to subsidize Brea Engine 2 being shut down. Total number of personnel that actually responded was 17 personnel. So dkmfan, who did you speak with? all of the personnel who actually made it on scene were in the building except for the BC. So it must have been him? He;s the guy in the white helmet….Talk about a scam….
NOT TRUE!
Few of them were in the building. The BC did’nt get out of the Suburban. He was on the cell phone the WHOLE time. Talking to…………????????
Two of the “union boys” joked about going in to the Shady Nook (the bar next door, while others did the work!
Keep fighting the bad fight
I think you’re makin up the whole thing….We are the pictures? Figure it out yet? Did you get off your lazy butt and go get the dispatch log? Bet not so sit down. Union boys…you mean firefighters…? What a joke….Cast your one vote in November….Good luck!
You could probably only get a picture of the “Hook and Ladder” because they and Brea Engine 3 were the only one’s there. I would love to see the pics. Email them from your phone. Save them in your photos and then copy and past onto the blog.
e-mail them to me or Art, we’ll post them. chezvern@aol.com
Love to see them. Hopefully you got a picture of all of the 30 people and 5 engine ect. that responded. Like I said, check the dispatch report, it’s public record. Easy.
Got those pictures yet?
Figure out that iphone yet?
dkmfan,
Where were you? Were you there? or did you just “Hear” about it? or even better, make it up?
I was there. In fact I left my car behind while blocked in. I walked back to across the street.
I eat lunch at this place everyday. I talked to F…… the owner about this.
yeah I made it up, and then in a strange turn of events, a fire actually broke out there to support my story.
Go back to the union hall and tell people to look out for the chinese guy in the Tacoma!
WTF??
That’s not what I meant…Don’t be absurd. I think you are fabricating some of the things that you said. There weren’t 30 firefighters there. That comment is totally false. You talk to the owner about what? What he saw? What you saw? The manager showed up while FF’s were on scene not the owner. So unless you actually saw firefighters taking pictures or actually talked to them, it’s hearsay. What’s your stake it this? Are you a Brea resident? Artie’s buddy? What? So ya WTF? I’m not to worried about a chinese guy in a Tacoma. But if I find out where union hall is I’ll be sure to let them know.
The fire and police associations routinely pick their candidates and pump thousands of dollars into electing the candidates they want. The voters need to be better informed. Art you are doing an admirable job shedding light on the self serving fire and police personnel.
Honesty,
Thank you! I am taking a beating but I know it is just a handful of union sock puppets.
Public safety IS important but we shouldn’t let these greedy unions bankrupt our cities!
Artie, You’re awesome…Anybody that doesn’t agree is a sock puppet…:) Or maybe more informed than you. Just sayin
Honestly, You are poisoned for sure. Are teachers unions greedy? How about any other union for that matter. There are cities were unions run amuck, but I assure you this isn’t the case here. Not talking about money or beniefits, just service. If you knew me you would know that I have nothing to gain by The City of Brea Contracting out. But Artie, doesn’t believe me. He’s closed minded and is not open to the fact that I just may be telling the truth. So, whatever you believe is what you believe.
Correction Honestly should be replaced with Honesty. My bad -1 for spelling.
Oh yes, the self-serving public servants, who risk their lives for strangers and die at a much younger age than the average adult. Firefighters increase their chances of cancer by 40% and on average die within 5 years of retirement. They should be applauded for their sacrifice.
anon,
Lies. Here are the top ten most dangerous occupations, note that firefighter and policeman are not on the list:
The 10 most dangerous jobs
Occupation Fatalities per 100,000
Timber cutters 117.8
Fishers 71.1
Pilots and navigators 69.8
Structural metal workers 58.2
Drivers-sales workers 37.9
Roofers 37
Electrical power installers 32.5
Farm occupations 28
Construction laborers 27.7
Truck drivers 25
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics; survey of occupations with minimum 30 fatalities and 45,000 workers in 2002
In list I found, firefighters were in the top 15. Risk for pay????That’s a dangerous philosophy.
So death makes it dangerous….Not injuries…ok. And by the way it’s true that nationally firefighter’s expectancy is less that other professions. Check it out before you discount it…please
Anybody research cancer related deaths after retirement? …..Didn’t think so.
Next time you need help, maybe you can call Art and his buddy. dkmfan has a really cool 3d IIIphone , that can sees firefighters and police that no one else sees. Maybe the imaginary people he sees and talks to can help. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE FIREFIGHTERS AND THE POLICE, it’s about us the REAL PEOPLE that call for help,it’s our LIVES our service our homes the Residents. when are you going to get that.
wow,
No, for you union sock puppets this is all about restoring the overtime of your already overpaid union firefighters. I have a feeling Brea’s voters won’t be going for that this November.
We’ll see buddy. Last I checked the citizen’s taxes weren’t reduced. But their service was. Visit a staion yet?
Yep totally admirable. Except for the childish name calling….Right Art?
Art this is a bunch of BS.
Have you ever hung out with a bunch of firefighters?
They are really cool guys. Who took those jobs because they paid really well and had great benefits. They didn’t screw us. They went after the jobs being offered. Those jobs are highly competitive.
But go ahead ……..you know what 84K buys you in OC?
a condo in Corona……
G,
The Corona thing is funny. I love it.
Think I’m done with this blog for awhile. I applaud those who engage in dialog with an open mind. But as you read the entire blog it is evident that this isn’t the case with its creator. I’ll be back. Have a great weekend!
It is obvious that Art is simply blogging about his dislike for firefighters because one of his good pals has put him up to it otherwise; he would focus his efforts on SAUSD. I have used the firefighter’s services on a number of occasions and I salute them for what they do. They do the job that many individuals would not dream of doing. As far as their salaries go, other city and government officials make a lot more money for doing a lot less. Why don’t you attack them? Art, you need to do a little more research so you can get all your facts straight and stop going by word of mouth.
Sanchez,
I don’t dislike firefighters. But I do dislike union thugs who want to bankrupt our local governments. The Brea union firefighters are absolutely in a tizzy because their overtime got cut – but service wasn’t cut. The city is now rounding out the fire crews with trained and certified apprentices. Most of the union guys were once apprentices themselves!
These union guys make anywhere from $150K to $200K, in a city where the average median household income is $84K – and yet they still want even more taxpayer money. In a word they are greedy and they ought to be ashamed of themselves!
Artie, After all I wrote you still don’t get it. It’s not about the overtime. Your salary numbers are not accurate . The Brea Median excludes benefits. Service was cut. There is missing an engine most days. Cut= subtract. The FD had 3 engines daily and now there are 2 80% of the time. Maybe it’s the new math profesor? Like the problem I gave your buddy John” Muppet”Beauman, If Joe Citizen has 3 apples and Al and Tim take 1 apple, how many are left? Get your facts straight, and visit a fire station. Union thugs….you’re a funny guy… ; )
Art,
If the power in your home were to go out, you would call Edison and hope someone gets out there as soon as possible to correct the issue, right! It would not matter if the Edison employee is on over time due to a vacancy or sick employee, all that matters is someone shows up. I believe the fire service uses the same concept in order to respond to emergency situations.
Secondly, It is not the unions who are bankrupting the cities, it’s all the executive managers with their bloated salaries with bonuses, free programs and community centers that take away business opportunities from the private sector.
Lastly, what’s next? Should I expect to be pulled over by an apprentice police officer? What a joke!
Sanchez,
Wrong again. Brea did NOT cut service hours. They cut union overtime and added more trained and certified apprentices to the fire crews.
And you are very wrong about the unions. The early retirement of cops and firefighters is killing city budgets. Are the city administrators also overpaid? Yes. I never said they weren’t. But that is a non-sequitur.
Your latter comment is actually truer than you know. Many cities are beginning to look at using uniformed security guards, at an hourly wage sans pension benefits, to supplant their thinned out police forces. This could start happening sooner than you think.
The Apprentices are basically trained. BASICALLY trained.n God help us if uniformed security guards ever start patroling in place of PD. I won’t let it happen in Yorba Linda, fully staffed fire stations and more Brea PD on patrol than the city of Brea. Why? Because that’s what the citzens pay for and that’s what they get. When is the City of Santa Ana getting security guards? Where did you get you info for this? Probably where you get the rest of you intel.
Wrong Art. Services were cut…..There isn’t……..ISN”T an Engine 2 anymore. Why don’t you get off your lazy butt and visit a station or do a ride along. Sounds like you have alot of “Training” so buck up big guy and check it out
I had not posted anything for awhile for the sole reason that I had to do a little research myself to see what the “truth” is. It is obvious what the truth is. Art, you really need to call and talk to other people. John Beauman is NOT a reliable source. Yes he is/WAS a councilmember, but just doing a TINY bit of research EASILY discredits his statements.
John, and I call you that because I have NO respect for you, it is more than obvious that YOU did not read, understand and have an open mind when going through this process. The very last statement you made regarding the “gauranteed annual cost increase” is COMPLETELY FALSE. Anyone one this blog want to question that? Then you can access these very documents published by Orange County Fire Authority cost control document done by the Finance Chief Lori Zeller. In this document, it states directly CONTRARY to what John just said. John, you are an ignorant politician and should be ashamded of yourself. I would like to thank you for not running again, and soon, hopefully, you will just crawl under a rock and disappear. You said that my public safety option that is currently implemented was a result of a conversation between you, the CM and one of the battalion chiefs. You, coucilmember or not, will ALWAYS be remembered for that!
John, you said that the savings will be 6.5 million for 5 years. Yet another assumption that can NOT be verified. AND AT WHAT COST? I just looked at the Brea Option R and the Orange County Fire Authority Option 3 and compared them. You said we will save 6.5 compared to 2.5 million in a five year period. Amazingly, another comparison with a volkswagon and a porsche. In the ORCO proposal, there were paramedics located AT EVERY STATION. The Brea Plan, only stations 1 and 3. Sounds like a HIGHER level of service to me doesn’t it ART.
Art, again you say the firefighter pay range is 150 to 200K. AND AGAIN, THAT IS THE FULLY BURDENED COST…..BENEFITS AND SALARY. And yet you compare it to the median Brea income of 84K. You and John are just two pee’s in a pod. Art you said ,”wrong again….brea did not cut service hours.” Again, you state things that are COMPLETELY FALSE. It would be who of you to not continue to make unsupported statements without displaying concrete facts. You say “cite one time a Brea resident has been underserved?” According to “the Truth”, ANY delay of care caused by the implementation of this Brea plan is a Brea Resident being underserved. Or I guess in John and your eyes, one of us “taxpayers” has to die before you see this.
Anyone interested in good old Art’s political record, just go ahead and google him. What a surprise! And again, we will just let the FACTS support themselves instead of me making claims about him. Check it out.
Everyone on this blog that has supported John or Art’s point of view has and can easily be discredited. We already did John and Art, how about dkmfan. He made several statements about a “small” fire in a pizza store…..how 30+ firefighters, six fire engines, five police cars and a ambulance showed up. Wow dkmfan, that is not what the PUBLIC RECORD dispatch information said. GO AHEAD AND SEE FOR YOURSELF. Amazingly, easily verifiable. Oh and where are those pictures…..oh your KIDS haven’t TAUGHT you how to gets those pictures to the blog yet?
I am saddened to see the direction of my city. I think ALL aspects of this Cities financial situation need to be addressed….NOT just the Fire Department. How can we be in such an economical dire strait yet we can afford to send the CM and guest to retreats? How is it that the very meeting to discuss the reorganization of the cities VITAL infrastructure due to budget problems is CATERED. That is right, our “tax paying” money being used to feed the people that have jeopardized my safety.
Dark side,
Although I don’t like the name well said. It sounds like someone actually did their homework and did not start a blog page simply based rumors. I just did my own research and it is pretty interesting how Brea politicians seem to put a spin on certain details and not tell the whole truth. Dark side 1, Art 0.
Sanchez,
John”Muppet” Beauman refered anybody who disagreed with his philosophy “The Dark Side” or union thugs.. Whoa…..who does that sound like????? Arturo?
Beauman and Pedroza’s arguments remind me of a statement I believe attributed to Abe Lincoln. Abe once said, concerning another politician’s empty rhetoric, that his opponent’s speech “…had all the substance of a soup made from the shadow of a crow that starved to death.”
Bravo
I’m a citizen of Brea and attended all of the work shops and meetings regarding the fire contract…Its really easy to see that Timmy O came up with a last minute deal and had his puppets sign on without any of us having a chance to review it like we did the other plans from Brea, OCFA and LA County during the meetings and workshop…ART you are wrong because the new plan flat out CUTS service to the citizens of Brea…I have to say that Art has no idea what he is talking about and It would not surpise me at all if Art’s motivation in this wrong information led right back to ron garcia…Beauman if you are so interested in all of this then why didnt you run for re election?
Al,
I agree. I believe the trail would lead right back to Beauman and Gar C YA !!!
I heard a guy Don Havard spek today.
I don’t know what his deal is, but HE IS the canidate for Brea.
It looks like he’s is running on a shoestring, challeging the staus quo.
But, boy did he reresent the middle of the road.
Find this guy and interview him!
Art – you keep saying this is about overtime and NOT about service levels. How about bringing some facts to the table to back your claim? If you can do that you might change my mind.
I provided links to a post that did confirm this. Ignore that if you will.
Service levels were not cut. All the City of Brea did was use apprentices to fill out the squads and take the overtime. Smart move. Too bad for the overpaid union guys, but they still make two and a half times what the average Brea resident makes.
WOW! The number keeps going up 2 1/2 times….Funny
I’m not a public safety guy but don’t like the idea of apprentices acting like firemen/women…as far as I’m concerned they have a hard enough job as it is without having to rely on some part timer/ unqualified temp to work with! Heck 2 1/2 times the average Brea pay sounds like to little for what they do! I know you and I cant do that job Art!… I’ll bet there is a reason for that!!
Al,
Except that half the Brea union firefighters were themselves once apprentices…
And by the way, we USED to do the job just fine. Volunteers used to run ALL the fire departments. Now it is just rich guys doing it. The reason? Greed.
They were apprentices because the Brea Fire Department ONLY hires apprentices. No open testing. .
Artie. You are a funny dude….Let it go! Have a great day!
Al Wrote:
“Beauman if you are so interested in all of this then why didnt you run for re election?”
Maybe because he is a 105 years old!
Garcia is a messy old man too.
Lets get some new blood out here, we don’t need guys who party with Wiley Drake on the council. We need people looking out for the city.
If they turn out to be union operatives then they damn well better sell us on the value. i don’t think anyone protests the desire for good service, we just want to be reasonably sure we are not getting hosed as bad as we have been.
Thats the “TRUTH”.
frankg,
Sigh. Another union sock puppet.
Are you at all aware of the demographics in Brea?
25.6% under the age of 18, 8.5% from 18 to 24, 30.4% from 25 to 44, 24.1% from 45 to 64, and 11.4% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 36 years.
But please do go ahead and piss off the adult voters. Great strategy.
There you go Artie, Anybody who doesn’t agree with you, You call them a name. My kids don’t even do that. Like a I said, you’re a funny dude. Very entertaining.
Art, you use statistics like a hooker uses a lamppost, more for support than illumination.
I would like to have everyone on this blog to read John “muppet” Beauman’s blog. Once again, I am amazed by his level of incompetence. John, you are amazing. You truely are the village idiot. Please people, for yourself, compare the two plans. Brea “R” and the OCFA option 3. THE ONLY THING JOHN HAS RIGHT is that the units are similar. But the personnel ARE NOT! Let’s see ignorant JOHN, every station has paramedics………Brea “R”…nope. stations 1and 3 have four (4) FULL TIME fire personnel. NOT APPRENTICES……Brea “R” …..increase…..that’s right John ……an increase in apprentices. John also continually makes comments about how every firefighter hired after 1996 was an apprentice. Wow…..because again just an ounce of research show that the City only hires from the apprentice program.
John, do us all a favor, get your meds checked, quit your b.s. blog and crawl under a rock and be forgotten. Once again, thank you for not running again!
Kid with a spinal cord injury laid injured for almost 9 minutes because the closest Fire Engine with EMTs was browned out to save $1000. Fiscally responsible? Probaby not to the the patient’s parents ( Residents and registered voters) who are aware of the staffing reductions Ok’d by Beauman, Garcia, and Switzer. Art, John and Ron, I don’t want you guys to lose any sleep, the kid regained the movement in his lower extremeities. SO I guess no one was “Hurt” right???
The Truth…..thank you so much for posting about the injuried child. As a parent those 9 minutes had to have seemed like hours. I would have been livid if it was my child and I found out service was delayed due to budget cuts. As a Brea resident, I absolutely do not want to see Police or Fire Services reduced in any way. These politicians have no real clue what a firefighters job is really all about. Yes EARNING extra money is nice, but it is actually earned. They make it seem like they just sit around all day doing nothing raking in all this free money.
A bad day at the office for a firefighter is when a patient DIES or getting stuck with a needle and having to go through 6 months of worry and blood work to make sure you haven’t contracted HIV or Hepatits C! The emotional and physical effects of a “bad day at the office” are huge! Their job has risks and sacrafices that go way beyond that of the average occupation. So yes, the compensation is the benefit to those risks and sacraficies. Why is that so bad?
The only one that benefits from services being reduced is the City….something is very wrong with that!
Also, really glad the City had enough money to put up new Solar Panels at City Hall and the Community Center!
Baffled,
You are absolutely correct. The city even has the money to hire an Art Director for the “Always” packed art museum at City Hall. Dang near $30 an hour plus beny’s. That’s more per hour than the rank of Firefighter. But I guess a picture could fall of the wall and strike the Director down….so….I guess it’s a good idea. NOT
Thanks for your support