As the city of Mission Viejo get’s closer to signing a 10 year solid waste removal contract I have tried to make an apples to apples comparison between two of the existing bidders.
While incumbent firm Waste Management, W/M, offered a reduction in their bid by submission of an alternate proposal, none of the others submitted a similar proposal. In one of the on-sight meetings, or perhaps at a council meeting, we heard a Waste Management representative claim that their pricing, based on using their existing fleet, would only be a few pennies above Athens Service. One problem. They were comparing Athens utilizing a new fleet and carts that W/M said will cost Athens $10 million in capital equipment while W/M did not have to make a similar investment.
Bottom line. Athens has notified me that if they did not have to purchase new carts and trucks their monthly residential removal fee would be $9.95 as compared with W/M’s $12.28.
Based on our having roughly 30,000 residences, using existing equipment, we are talking about a 19% variance or $838,000 per year. Extended further we are being asked to give away an extra eight million dollars over the 10 year life of the contract.
Sidebar. If both vendors provide new trucks and carts the Athens quote was $12.22 vs W/M’s $13.74. Selecting Athens would save MV residents over $500,000 per year.
Larry. Why don’t you allow the council and Joe Sloan to do their job. Simply stated, I don’t trust their negotiating skills and preordained winner.
In the City hall conference room discussion with Councilman Leckness you can hear W/M representative Charissa McAfee state that none of the trucks used in servicing our city would be over 10 years of age.
I am talking apples to apples. Unlike the council objection to awarding the contract to CR&R, Athens Service has projected the identical number of vehicles to service our city.
W/M has a problem. Not everyone in this business requires a 16.9 percent profit margin.
Folks. This is not brain surgery. Just comply with South Coast Air Quality Management District Rule 1193 as it pertains to the use of “compressed or liquefied natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas, methanol, electricity, fuel cells, or other advanced technologies that do not rely on diesel fuel.”
Hey Larry, according to Art’s article you won on Measure D. Congrats!
Little Big Man,
LOL! I blew that one. I just called Larry and he said that Dale was indeed the Measure D guy.
I don’t really get the point of Measure D. And when voters don’t understand a measure, it is doomed.
LBM/Dan Avery. This post is not about Measure D.
Larry, Glad you did your divergence in calling one hauler although you should call all bidders if you are going to do that.I would suggest that you really need to research Athens. They have lost two bids for cities and they were the low-bidder because of their illegal activities that they have been constantly sited for. Plus they are one of the largest trash companies around and are just starting to use clean air trucks and that is maybe 10% of their fleet.
You really should go to http://www.stopathens.org. their is documents that show all their citations and violations. I am not sure why you would call Ware Disposal about their rates. Ware is actually the second lowest bidder if you don’t count the roll-off pricing according to the numbers posted. the commercial rate and the residential rate was the second lowest. They already have CNG trucks. I see them all the time driving around where I work. WM is already there so they have the advantage of not having the transition cost but they should still be required to use clean air vehicles. Did you give up on CRR. Plus if everyone dropped the route by three trucks like CRR proposed, what would the new rates be or what would CRR rates be if they added three trucks like the proposal asked for. Just wondering. Good job on keeping on it. The reality of it is that WM is in the pockets of some of these council members and so is Athens. They are trying really hard to get this contract.
Paulie.
I did speak to CR&R Vice President Dean Ruffridege as we left the last council meeting together. I don’t blame him for his comments about doing business with the city.
The fourth bidder was Judy Ware of Ware Disposal. As of now, although they handle our C&D, they are simply too small to tackle our size solid waste removal.
While Athens has had problems in the past, the consultant did not go back more than five years in sharing that type of info with the city. While I may have my own conclussions the key for me is that Athens rates should be higher not lower than Waste Management. Athens would have a middle man in Rainbow for their recycling. They also would be traveling further than W/M. As such their prices should be greater.
We have been getting ripped off by W/M in recent years. If not for the contract renewal we would continue paying $14 per month for residential service.
I will continue to speak out about this trash contract as I did last night. In fact the mayor had no comment after I menioned Frank Ury violating their vote where all vendor contact occur inside city hall and be tape recorded.
Thank you for your efforts to uncover the truth of this bidding sham that is ongoing. I have absolutely no faith in the three city council majority of Ury, Kelley and now Lance or Dave Leckness to make such a monumental decisions for our electorate for the next 10 years. It was such a no brainer decision for a low bid answer but spending $100,000 + for a consultant to give such a biased decision as recommending the Highest price is beyond belief normally but for this city it was business as usual. Outside interests have this city government in their pocket. I will do everything possible to help in removing these puppets come this fall. How do we remove this city government starting with Curly. He and his firm are robbing our city treasury.
Max. Knowing how you feel I am mentioning your name for a role in the Nov council elections.
Larry and I have talked about numbers before (love the gold trash cans by the way) and how they can be manipulated. If you’re a conservative in Mission Viejo and believe in capitalism, then the only number that should matter is what you personally will be paying for trash delivery for the next 10 years. For me, using the figures Larry notes above, I will be paying approximately $40 per year more for Waste’s delivery than Athens’s with no new trucks, and approximately $18 per year more with new trucks (Athens must have a bad guy making the deal for new trucks). That means I will only have to pay either $400 or $180 more over the entire life of the 10 year contract to have Waste over Athens. I have read some of the comments Paulie refers to regarding Athens. Many years ago, they were very dirty. As recently as a few years ago, they still had problems, but much less problematic than in the past. With that, I’m happy to pay $40 per year for Waste, since I have had no problems with their service. Others may disagree, and that’s fine. But the millions of dollars in figures being thrown around are really irrelevant unless you object to Waste making a larger profit than Athens on the contract. If that’s the case, refer to my conservative capitalist reference above.
Newbie.
Yes, we have discussed numbers. While $40 per year will not break you or I it will line Waste Managements pocket to the tune of $1,200,000 per year times 10 or somewhere north of $12 million.
A responsible city council member should keep that total in mind, not $40 per year for themselves, as they cast their vote next month.
While I do not have a problem with Waste Management performance, we should negotiate the best price for the residents of our city. For Joe Sloan to only value cost at 20 percent on a performance contract that does not require a Phd for the truck drivers, steers the business to the highest bidder. Shame on the council for accepting his recommended pro-forma. We have a rather naive city council majority.
Yes I do object to Waste Management making a larger profit than other vendors. If their price was within pennies of a new vendor I would vote to retain their services. Therfore, I would vote to award Waste Managment the 10 year Contract using their existing fleet of trucks and our existing carts at $10 per month per residence. That is five cents higher than Athens Service.
Let’s see how effective the council will be in lowering their price.
And you call yourself a conservative???????????
Newbie.
Sorry I missed one of your points. Ms. McAfee of W/M said they would invest $9 mil for new trucks and carts while the other vendors would be spending $10 mil.
Some people are great at winging it. That said, they were each talking some sizeable numbers for capital investment.
As you pointed out. The other vendors are offering gold trash cans which might explain the variance.
Athens problems are not old. They just got levied the AQMD largest fine for a trash company ever. They got kicked out of Montebello, and lost a bid for Palos Verdes and Hacienda Heights even though they are the low bidder. Plus like Larry said how are they low when they have the furthest way to go and have to use another trash company to dump. As for Ware, I did some research, they are not to small. They currently have 4-5 residential franchises and run 80 trucks. The bid looks like it requires about 20 trucks. You have to be qualified and put up a performance bond and even the consultant said all the bidders were qualified to do the job. The point is WM is in the pocket of the council so it really doesn’t matter what they charge because we are going to get stuck paying it.
Paulie.
Ever use the word LEVERAGE?
Based on blog coverage, and not only here, Waste Managmeent has now offered to reduce our residential pick up to $11.50 per month which, according to the city newsletter, represents a 13.5 % decrease.
If not for the renewal do you truly think they would lower their fees?
I also find it worth noting that in the proposed Contract Agreement, that will be discussed on Tue July 6th, there is no mention as to the number of trucks required to service Mission Viejo although that was the reason given by our consultant for kicking out CR&R, the lowest bidder’s proposal.
They are cute. It’s an 8 year contract with two one year extensions in which the rate can go anywhere.
i still can’t believe how much they paid this consultant. What a rip off for the city. He didn’t even do anything. I agree that the proposal should of definitely had more of a percentage towards the price. 20 points seems wrong. should of been 40-50% in my opinion. I really don’t think it matters who bid it. It’s pretty obvious that the council wants WM. $11.50 is still pretty cheap for trash pick up though. I’d rather pay that then have Athens come in. Thanks Larry, Get ready for another 6 hour council meeting. Happy 4th
paulie.
I did not lobby to remove W/M.
My ongoing effort is to get the lowest cost for our trash removal without jeopardizing the service. For that reason I referenced both CR&R and Athens to illustrate that
a) we have not been getting the biggest bang for the buck and
b) to drive W/M’s price lower.
Even at the $11.50 per month charge with their existing fleet they are still getting more than is warranted when you read the proposal which is cute. The proposed agreement is for 8, not 10 years. They will therefore have TWO one year options that do not lock in the quoted cost.
It also reads that they cannot have any vehicle removing our trash that is over 10 years of age with a wiggle room statement that raises questions about that outside date. It permits an exception that reads “unless the vehicle is rebuilt” whatever that means.