I use the preferred anti-immigrant term “amnesty” mainly in the spirit of defiance, but what I’m referring to is the commonsense moderate proposal, embraced by Reagan, attempted a few years back by a bipartisan coalition including Bush and McCain, and scheduled to come around the bend again any time now – that we quickly grant citizenship to vast numbers of immigrants who are in this country legally or illegally, on the condition that they pay a reasonable fine, learn passable English, and go through the other processes prospective citizens need to go through – only STREAMLINED AND EXPEDITED.
There are multiple reasons I’ve long supported an updated, liberalized immigration policy. There’s the simple wisdom of having all your policies, including immigration, flexible enough to fit current economic realities. There’s the post-9/11 need to keep better track of who’s inside our borders and not wasting resources on folks who aren’t really dangerous. There’s the humanitarian aspect of making the lives of a lot of good, hard-working people easier and better, and treating them with dignity. And most viscerally for THIS blogger, I’ll derive lots of enjoyment from watching the heads of white (and black) racists explode when they realize they have to share this country, as equals, with millions more brown people with accents. But none of this would have been excuse enough for me to compose the new post you’re reading.
No, what precipitates this particular post is a new Robert Reich article that makes the somewhat obvious point that, as we Baby Boomers start to retire in greater and greater numbers, and look forward to enjoying the Social Security and Medicare that are rightfully ours, we are going to need a lot of new young, healthy, hard-working taxpayers to keep the systems afloat, especially through these difficult economic times. Hey – I know just the folks! Or should I say, el pueblo?
[poll id=”274″]
no , no no , far left vern . get in line with everyone else . no rewards for lawbreakers . and we know you want . unskilled , poor , more entitlements = votes for your far left party . NO SE PUEDE .
LOL, THAT took all of one second! Thanks for voting in the poll, Grate One, and nice to know your parents came across the Bering Sea 1000 years ago speaking English!
And why should they necessarily vote for my “far left party” anyhow? They’re pretty “traditional” and some of them even hate gays – maybe your far right far right GOP should be reaching out to them instead of demonizing them?
Yeah. Probably can’t.
Vern,
Good job so far on the management of the site!
I agree we need to clear the plate and legalize A LOT of these folks.
I have always looked at the immigration issue a little bit like watering the lawn, if the outward flow is regulated the grass does’nt die, nor does it flood the grass. Simple perhaps, but with millions “off the books” right now the situation is’nt helping ANYONE.
Personally, I have great respect and regard for the man that walks through the Sonora desert risking death, to improve his life. I WOULD DO THE SAME THING.
If in the game of Chance, The Great One was born in Jalisco, would he be brave enough to try it? From his posts, I suppose not.
And what do you say to the thousands of people that have followed the rules and are waiting their turn(which takes years) to get a visa to come here?
Larry, I probably won’t be in charge of implementing this amnesty, but I’d say those folks should go first, and then the others immediately after. I doubt they’ll be too resentful of their fellow countrymen not having to go through all the same shit they did, that’s just something whites made up.
WW, I’ll tell you a bit about the silly Grate One – he immigrated from Cuba. THAT is really easy, you just have to pretend to be a “political refugee” since Castro is our enemy. There’s some wet-foot-dry-foot policy, I don’t know all the details, maybe he can explain exactly what he went through if he wants to.
Two of our most prolific (and illiterate) anti-“illegal”-immigrant commenters are immigrants themselves – Grate One and the Irish Michelle Quinn. They just both happen to be very self-righteous people who were born without empathy and feel far superior to Mexicans, although I’d rather have a drink with practically any Mexican than either of those two.
“get in line with everyone else”
Great one, the reality of it is… there is no line, if you’re a poor Mexican living in Mexico. You know how I feel about illegal immigrants. My mind tells me that they’re breaking the law, yet in my heart, I cannot blame people for fighting for a better life for their families. And I’m not stupid and neither are you, we know illegal immigrants would not exist in this country if major corporations or employers didn’t want to exploit their cheap labor to produce cheap products for consumers. So Americans are saying, “We want to use you” and at the same time, we say, “How dare you come here illegally” … Again I tell you, there is no immigration line to get into for most of these people and we’re kidding ourselves if we say, “Get in line like everyone else”.
Open the borders. Or don’t you believe in free markets?
WELL let me start with far left vern . no i would not want to drink with you . and second of all DONT TELL ME HOW I GOT HERE . you know nothing i repeat nothing from cuba. because you have mot lived there . you have NO FREAKING CLUE WHAT GOES ON THERE . . WET FOOT DRY FOOT . when you try and come here in a boat made from a car in shark infested waters not the sand from the sonora desert .dont make IT to land get sent back . guess what happens to you far left clueless vern .you GO TO FREAKIN JAIL . not get a stamp and get sent back to mexico to try it again 2 motns later . and lam pho im for nailing the employess who hire these people . like they always say WHAT PART OF THE WORD ILLEGAL YOU DONT UNDERSTAND .
“when you try and come here in a boat made from a car in shark infested waters not the sand from the sonora desert .dont make IT to land get sent back . guess what happens to you far left clueless vern .you GO TO FREAKIN JAIL .”
That still equals attempting to come to the country illegally, regardless of what happens to you if you don’t make it.
Many, many, many undocumented residents of Orange County were brought here as children. They have been raised here, gone to school here, said the pledge of allegiance each morning as does any American school child, and have always thought of themselves as American as any other of their classmates. To most, Mexico is a distant, somewhat frightening, foreign land. I’m not sure at what age they become “illegals”, open for deportation to a place of which they have no knowledge, no family, no friends.
One of our top graduates of this decade is in this situation. With a full scholarship to Harvard U., an English literature major, she graduated last year but found she could still get little more than a low profile menial labor job. Harvard has accepted her back for graduate school after which she hopes something will change. The problem is to pay for it. Her friends, classmates, former teachers are trying to help out. You can read about this, and help out if you’re of mind at:
http://www.causes.com/causes/472691?recruiter_id=116945481
Gloria’s precedent-setting accomplishment of being the first status-challenged Latina to ever be accepted into Harvard Grad School of Education is in jeopardy of not happening.
Because of her status, funds are not available through traditional means. She continues to apply for the limited scholarships available to students like her!
We’ve gotten creative and will be having a local fundraiser on May 4th at Polly’s located at 2660 North Main Street. She is a brilliant Latina and it would be a travesty to lose her. All funds generated will be tax deductible and may be sent to the Santa Ana Education Project in c/o of Gloria M. PO Box 10134, Santa Ana, CA 92711-0134. ”
SANTA ANA EDUCATION PROJECT
A 501(c)(3) nonprofit
Vern the problem is Amnesty rewards bad behavior. Amnesties offered during previous years does not solve the issue that lies within.
If we could close the 14th amenedment by making it where 1 of the 2 parents have to be American citizens to make their child American, I would support an amnesty. We need to make illegal immigration unacceptable.
Let’s see, HMMM Dry 120 degree desert with no water, snakes, thieves and no direction. VS. Shark filled water, no food, and no direction. Both sound preety bad to me.
I have been to Cuba, and I would swim away, GREAT ONE, just like I would crawl across the desert. As for those who have waited legally, I say front of the line, FULL Citizenship. The rest, begin a process of attrition, Green Cards, Visas, work permits etc…
The fact remains that people came her because we (at Michelles Starbucks and McDonalds) offer a chance to make a living.
I have never heard an American Citizen say: “Gee I’ll give up my Goldman Sachs gig to work at Target”. Yet, anti-imigrant folks commonly use that comparison.
You can always go back to Cuba or Ireland if it’s that damned bad.
“Two of our most prolific (and illiterate) anti-”illegal”-immigrant commenters are immigrants themselves – Grate One and the Irish Michelle Quinn. They just both happen to be very self-righteous people who were born without empathy and feel far superior to Mexicans, although I’d rather have a drink with practically any Mexican than either of those two.”
MQ says:
So you want me to have empathy for corporate America and the Government who gain from illegal immigration while middle class Americans are burdened by it… That would be a NO!
I empathize with the fact that illegal immigrants are forced to leave their country because of the incompetents of their government… When you are forced to leave your friends and family it’s no fun – but of course, you would not know that – you are not an immigrant are you!
Since I am an immigrant, most likely I would be more welcome to drink with immigrants. The fact that i am Irish gives me a heads up too! The fact that you are American makes you less likely to be welcome in a Mexican immigrants home and the fact that you are an educated elitist liberal – you would not have anything in common with a immigrant from Mexico – as you have nothing in common with me!
My grandfather was illiterate – could neither read nor write – as are so many illegal immigrants from south of the border. You see yourself as intelligent because you are literate. Any idiot can be taught to read and write – all it take’s is the time and the money. Common sense can not be bought, it’s a gift.. true intelligence!
Lace curtain yer not, Quinn, claiming illiteracy as a heritage. Ahem. I thought you were playin it cool like The Eskimo or Luke perhaps, in any case Quinn ya can’t walk home can ya? You must swim Quinn. A long ways.
I am home!
Illiteracy is not my heritage.. I can read and write quite well compared to most in Mexico!
Like my Grandfather, most Mexicans are busy trying to put a meal on the table.
Vern,
I support legalizing those who wish to be part of America, assimilated in United States culture, but many do not, and many have made no effort whatsoever to learn English. How would we actually pull this off? How quickly do you think a whole new culture of racial opportunists would sprout up, claiming that the requirement to learn English is racist, or that the government should provide waivers of the “reasonable fine” to those already here and utilizing public assistance? What about the tens of thousands using fake, stolen identities? My point is, just where do you draw the line?
I agree – we need reform and a workable path to citizenship for those with established roots here, but we learned in 1986 that a line MUST be drawn, and no reform is possible unless we have secure borders.
“SANTA ANA EDUCATION PROJECT
A 501(c)(3) nonprofit”
OMG – not another one!
How do you become a US citizen or a US resident.
There is no secret and it is not very hard.
But it does cost money.
So if you really want to help someone become a US citizen or just complete the green card papers, dig deep into your pocket and pony up the cash.
No new law needs to be passed and no blanket pardons need to be issued.
So stop talking about how unfair life is and put your cash on the table. You can make a difference, just by putting your money where your mouth is.
some folks on here have good points . cook is right about money . rob is also right lots of of them dont want to asimulate into this country but want its perks . matt has a good idea anchor babies must go if your a illegal . and kenny also has a god point . yes people get taken advantage off . and post 10 tes its illegal too im not for that expect that it was clinton who made the wet foot /dry foot law . people on here cant understand mexico /cuba are totally different . if you have a house in mexico that you own and want to leave . you can leave if you dont make it to the u.s. you get sent back you can go back home . in cuba if this happens your house is no longer there . gov took it . also mexico has elections they get to vote . cuba no elections for 50 some odd years . also in cuba IT IS ILLEGAL TO leave the country whitout permission
Yes I think learning English should be part of the requirements to go from being here undocumented to being here legally.
No, we cannot send everyone back, but if they have been involved in criminal activity they should be deported.
Yes there has to be a fine for those who came here illegally before they get in the back of the line.
Yes we need the younger labor force to help with Social Security unless we want to raise the retirement age to around 75 or 80 over the next 20 years.
Efforts should be made using micro loan programs that target small family businesses in poorer counties to spur local job growth and economic developement. You can not just give aid to the government, which in many cases is corrupt.
These micro loan programs must be run by independant agencies.
“Efforts should be made using micro loan programs that target small family businesses in poorer counties to spur local job growth and economic developement. You can not just give aid to the government, which in many cases is corrupt.
These micro loan programs must be run by independant agencies.”
MQ says:
This is common sense at it’s best!
This says it all, Vern:
“also in cuba IT IS ILLEGAL TO leave the country whitout permission”
Well that’s a double whammy then…you’re breaking THEIR laws if you leave, and you’re breaking OURS if you come over in a makeshift boat.
#23
All that video proves – if men are running away from law enforcement.. Most likely they know they are breaking the law..
As far as the guy filming – he is taking advantage of the situation as do many!
post 24 . its also illegal to talk back to the gov. its illegal to write anything about the gov . so by your thinking you must agree with their gov .
Grate One and Quinn, I’m sorry, I’ll have a drink with you guys some day, except I’m on the wagon right now and you both piss me off. Grate One, I don’t doubt that it was dangerous coming over here and that you lost/risked whatever you had in Cuba, it must have been worth it.
But I’m saying that I’m sure once you were here that it was ten times easier and quicker for you to get citizenship than it is for a Mexican who just wants to feed their family. And I think it shows a character defect that you and Quinn don’t empathize with them at all.
I believe Anon at #10 and 24 is making the valid point that you came here illegally yourself (we assume, you can always tell us your story) and so whenever you start going “Illegal illegal No rewards for lawbreakers What part of illegal don’t you understand” you can get off your damn high horse.
#23 Golightly, thanks for that video, I posted it up here for you. What an asshole huh?! That’s exactly the kind of guy that makes me really want to see a mass amnesty so I can watch his head explode.
#11 Santa Ana High School Teacher, e-mail me more details about Gloria’s case, I’d like to do a post about her.
More responses later tonite………….
Talking about people taking advantage, let me share with you a flyer that was distributed in Downtown Santa Ana, that a two day event Cinco de Mayo, will disturb the business and residents for 5DAYS. WITH STREET CLOSURE.
With no amnesty at this time, basically we are
hostage in our own terretory, what will be next?
Someone tell me , what is good for us residents and business in the area? Who is making the money?
how can we stop all this ?
Great one – are you from Cuba???
Jesus you’re slow Quinn.
I did not know he was from Cuba.. I must have missed that in his post..
COOL!
Munson #12: Vern the problem is Amnesty rewards bad behavior. Amnesties offered during previous years does not solve the issue that lies within.
I keep hearing that, like we’re in some pet school – don’t reward bad behavior. They get a fine, ok! Not a huge fine, because they’re mostly making very low wages, and also because doing work people need done without getting the proper documentation which is impossible to get… is a crime about as evil and destructive as jaywalking. A fine nonetheless though – so bad behavior is not rewarded. Happy master?
Munson #12: If we could close the 14th amenedment by making it where 1 of the 2 parents have to be American citizens to make their child American, I would support an amnesty. We need to make illegal immigration unacceptable.
There are times for bargaining and haggling, but I’m not sure this is one. With this sort of amnesty, much of the motivation to have “anchor babies” won’t be there anymore. People will still fall in love and reproduce, but if both the parents are citizens anyway, what’s the difference. And everybody dreams of amending the Constitution one way or another, but it looks like we’re pretty much stuck with it as it is for a while.
Rob #17: I support legalizing those who wish to be part of America, assimilated in United States culture, but many do not, and many have made no effort whatsoever to learn English. How would we actually pull this off? How quickly do you think a whole new culture of racial opportunists would sprout up, claiming that the requirement to learn English is racist, or that the government should provide waivers of the “reasonable fine” to those already here and utilizing public assistance? What about the tens of thousands using fake, stolen identities?
Sure, folks that don’t want to learn English, work hard, and pay taxes (and a fine) would not become citizens, and should be deported. Who needs ’em. Learning English is part of this amnesty. But who is gonna be the arbiter of what’s “American culture” though? That’s a good question, in this big melting pot. (will you pass those quesadillas by the way?) And these stolen identities – how does that factor in? They won’t need stolen identities when they become citizens. Or you’re saying that they’re big criminals for working with a fake SS#, and that should disqualify them from citizenship? Nah, won’t work. We need to make these workers legal taxpayers.
Everyone’s just automatically saying whatever they always say whenever the subject of immigration comes up. I wish they would re-read the second and third paragraphs of my original post. Especially the third one – social security and Medicare. There are compelling reasons to do this thing!
More responses coming….
Cook #19: How do you become a US citizen or a US resident? There is no secret and it is not very hard. But it does cost money. So if you really want to help someone become a US citizen or just complete the green card papers, dig deep into your pocket and pony up the cash.
As so often I don’t quite follow you Rob. We know you are a hardworking and charitable guy who served in Vietnam and works with the homeless. That’s all admirable. If becoming a citizen costs lots and lots of money, well the answer is, it shouldn’t. We can change the law. We have politicians and we vote for them. You know that. You’re an election worker too!
Benson #21: No, we cannot send everyone back, but if they have been involved in criminal activity they should be deported.
No argument there Jim.
Benson #21: Efforts should be made using micro loan programs that target small family businesses in poorer counties to spur local job growth and economic development. You can not just give aid to the government, which in many cases is corrupt. These micro loan programs must be run by independent agencies.
Hear, hear. Micro loan programs are great, and even Bloody Quinn can get behind that. Here are a couple if any readers are interested and want to find out more:
first an article http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/17/scitech/pcanswer/main4808591.shtml
http://www.kiva.org/
http://www.worldvisionmicro.org/donate-a-microloan?open&campaign=1209242&cmp=KNC-1209242
https://www.microplace.com/
Hey Quinn, why don’t you take some of that boundless energy you use to harass nonprofits, and find out which of these is best – most effective and trustworthy? We would ALL appreciate that. Thanks colleen.
Any non-profit that provide services to people outside of this country are mostly paid by private citizens..
Non-profits in Orange County cater to Illegal immigrants and their children using grants from the federal and state government – Its the way to go as a non-profit in Orange County…Ie..MOMS, Californiakids.
The federal and state government feel the poor from Mexico need help – American Citizens – well you’re on your own!
Every single grant that i have looked at en-cluding every program with the Orange Country Healthy Families cater to illegal immigrants and their children – it is a fact!
By the way – prop 10 was not income based – but of course it became that way!
http://www.ccfc.ca.gov/pdf/funding/PoP-Bridge/FundingTermsandConditions.pdfhttp://www.ccfc.ca.gov/pdf/legislation/CALIFORNIACODES2009.pdf
Prop 10 was never mean’t to become an entitlement to illegal immigrants – that is what it became.
This is not a matter of illegal immigration – its a matter of who is using illegal immigrants to get federal and state grants!
Nice try there Vern. We’ll see how you are holding out in five years at your government appointed job. Amnesty = North American Union.