Anonster and Gericault already put this in comments while I was busy with my concert – but I think it deserves its own POST for maximum effect on Terry Crowley, the Grate One, Ms. Quinn, and even Art who’s gone to the dark side on this. Conservative former Bush speech-writer David Frum sees the success of the Democrats’ healthcare bill as a “Waterloo” NOT for President Obama (as the mad Senator Jim DeMint predicted) but for conservatives and Republicans themselves. Read this thoughtful essay. And weep, you reactionaries.
Waterloo
Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing legislative defeat since the 1960s.
It’s hard to exaggerate the magnitude of the disaster. Conservatives may cheer themselves that they’ll compensate for today’s expected vote with a big win in the November 2010 elections. But:
(1) It’s a good bet that conservatives are over-optimistic about November – by then the economy will have improved and the immediate goodies in the healthcare bill will be reaching key voting blocs.
(2) So what? Legislative majorities come and go. This healthcare bill is forever. A win in November is very poor compensation for this debacle now.
So far, I think a lot of conservatives will agree with me. Now comes the hard lesson:
A huge part of the blame for today’s disaster attaches to conservatives and Republicans ourselves.
At the beginning of this process we made a strategic decision: unlike, say, Democrats in 2001 when President Bush proposed his first tax cut, we would make no deal with the administration. No negotiations, no compromise, nothing. We were going for all the marbles. This would be Obama’s Waterloo – just as healthcare was Clinton’s in 1994.
Only, the hardliners overlooked a few key facts: Obama was elected with 53% of the vote, not Clinton’s 42%. The liberal block within the Democratic congressional caucus is bigger and stronger than it was in 1993-94. And of course the Democrats also remember their history, and also remember the consequences of their 1994 failure.
This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none.
Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.
Barack Obama badly wanted Republican votes for his plan. Could we have leveraged his desire to align the plan more closely with conservative views? To finance it without redistributive taxes on productive enterprise – without weighing so heavily on small business – without expanding Medicaid? Too late now. They are all the law.
No illusions please: This bill will not be repealed. Even if Republicans scored a 1994 style landslide in November, how many votes could we muster to re-open the “doughnut hole” and charge seniors more for prescription drugs? How many votes to re-allow insurers to rescind policies when they discover a pre-existing condition? How many votes to banish 25 year olds from their parents’ insurance coverage? And even if the votes were there – would President Obama sign such a repeal?
We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat.
There were leaders who knew better, who would have liked to deal. But they were trapped. Conservative talkers on Fox and talk radio had whipped the Republican voting base into such a frenzy that deal-making was rendered impossible. How do you negotiate with somebody who wants to murder your grandmother? Or – more exactly – with somebody whom your voters have been persuaded to believe wants to murder their grandmother?
I’ve been on a soapbox for months now about the harm that our overheated talk is doing to us. Yes it mobilizes supporters – but by mobilizing them with hysterical accusations and pseudo-information, overheated talk has made it impossible for representatives to represent and elected leaders to lead. The real leaders are on TV and radio, and they have very different imperatives from people in government. Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds.
So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.
I am not worried, this law will kill itself.. It will also stop illegal and most sadly legal immigration to this country but the silver lining is, it will bring back conservative values, personal responsibility and self reliance!
The dem’s won the vote but the people will win back their country.
To know the enemy is to win against them!
The enemy in this case is liberalism and socialism!
PS The guy whom Michelle is so much smarter than, speaking live tonight:
Sean Penn speaks live all the time, and i am sure the country is listening to what he has to say..NOT!
Mister intelligent stated that the president goes to the white house to pass what he deems best. This is a catch 22 -Dictators have the same idea!
Time will tell Mr.Vern!
FAR LEFT VERN YOU GOT 7 MORE MONTHS AND THEN ITS YOUR WATERLOO . ADIOS MAJORTY
“Sean Penn speaks live all the time, and i am sure the country is listening to what he has to say..NOT!”
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There are some things even a new computer can’t fix.
When are the people going to learn what is in the bill?
cook,
Hope this helps;
March 21, 2010 6:31 PM
Health Care Reform Bill Summary: A Look At What’s in the Bill
By CBS News Capitol Hill Producers Jill Jackson and John Nolen
Cost:
$940 billion over ten years.
Deficit:
Would reduce the deficit by $143 billion over the first ten years. That is an updated CBO estimate. Their first preliminary estimate said it would reduce the deficit by $130 billion over ten years. Would reduce the deficit by $1.2 billion dollars in the second ten years.
Read more on the CBO Report
Coverage:
Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.
Health Insurance Exchanges:
The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage — effective 2014.
Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.
Subsidies:
Individuals and families who make between 100 percent – 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.
Federal Poverty Level for family of four is $22,050
Paying for the Plan:
Medicare Payroll tax on investment income — Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
Excise Tax — Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called “Cadillac” high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family’s plan.
Tanning Tax — 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services.
Medicare:
Closes the Medicare prescription drug “donut hole” by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.
Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.
Medicaid:
Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.
Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.
Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.
Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.
Insurance Reforms:
Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.
Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.
Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent’s insurance plans through age 26.
Abortion:
The bill segregates private insurance premium funds from taxpayer funds. Individuals would have to pay for abortion coverage by making two separate payments, private funds would have to be kept in a separate account from federal and taxpayer funds.
No health care plan would be required to offer abortion coverage. States could pass legislation choosing to opt out of offering abortion coverage through the exchange.
**Separately, anti-abortion Democrats worked out language with the White House on an executive order that would state that no federal funds can be used to pay for abortions except in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother. (Read more here)
Individual Mandate:
In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.
Employer Mandate:
Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.
Immigration:
Illegal immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the exchanges — even if they pay completely with their own money.
“Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear.”
“Conservatism is the blind and fear-filled worship of dead radicals”
“Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”
“A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned to walk forward.”
“If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich.”
“There are some things even a new computer can’t fix.”
MQ says:
Whats that dishonesty??
You call it fixing, and i suppose your right, except i don’t think i want to be fixed!
‘When are the people going to learn what is in the bill?’
MQ says:
When are you going to learn that what is in the bill the people don’t want!
When will you learn that unlike yourself, most people like being self reliant and prefer the government stick to its promise of staying out of our lives, even if it means entitlements.. if i or other Americans wanted this sort of existence i would move to europe… Where entitlements are abundant, but freedoms are limited!
Public workers and unions are crushing this country and we need to limit the amount of damage they can do to this country by making their jobs not so easily kept!
We forget who the government are – over paid and less than patriot Americans – which are also referred to as Liberals!
*This issue is boring everyone to tears….the Republicans were going to do nothing…and the Dems just wanted that had their name on it. Thank goodness it will all be over on Tuesday when the Senate pretends it is doing something!
Let the rationing begin. Even if half of the 30 million just want to pay the tax instead….suddenly, there will be an additional 15 million people trying to get and pay for healthcare. All the high cost CAT SCANS will now be on a waiting list…for months ahead. Just try to get an colonoscopy….they already needed two months notice….now it will take a year or more.
But all that is just the good news. Try getting prescription drugs…that aren’t generic…..the cost will double and they will be totally “unavailable”.
The law of unintended consequences is at work. Just try walking in to a walk in clinic…oh well,
just go on the internet and find a good herbal doctor and forget about it.
We now have joined the ranks of National Healthcare and all its horrific consequences.
The good news is: The Republicans didn’t want to do anything but watch the cost of Insurance quadruple and then blame the Dems.
They are both hopeless!
*Swine Flu Vaccine? Better head to Mogadishu or Liberia. How long did that take to get out to eveyone?
Institutional Medicine is like Institutional Food…hardly worth consuming!
“The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage — effective 2014”
MQ says:
What this means simply, you will be paying for the so called poor of this country to have health insurance… That means just like Caloptima, illegal hispanics flooded this system due to the fact that they are the poor and the hospitals have had a cash flow of federal money.. Caloptima employees have grown, exc have been paid more and every one wins except the taxpayer..
Their is a large under enrollment of white and black citizen with caloptima, because they are not the targeted group – they are not under the FEDERAL POVERTY LINE…
Americans don’t need to read the bill, they know that when they try to seek aid from the federal or state government when they really need it, they are turned away because they are not the underserved and vulnerable!
Americans don’t trust this government, because just as the catholic church as been invaded by wack job liberal nuns who believe in social justice, so has the US government..
Just take a look at every grant or entitlement that the US government has implemented!
I love the American indian grant (title 7).. except for this grant it goes to all the other underserved and vulnerable expect the American indians!
Winships,
“Let the rationing begin. Even if half of the 30 million just want to pay the tax instead….suddenly, there will be an additional 15 million people trying to get and pay for healthcare. All the high cost CAT SCANS will now be on a waiting list…for months ahead. Just try to get an colonoscopy….they already needed two months notice….now it will take a year or more.”
If I’m reading this right, you are complaining that sick and previously uninsured people will now be CLOGGING UP doctor offices, hospitals and labs? I guess you feel that some people should have the decency to die quickly and quietly so as not to discomfit the Winships as they sail through life. What a beautiful and generous world outlook you two have, maybe you could also wish for a deadly plague before Christmas to open up more parking spaces.
Michelle,
“What this means simply, you will be paying for the so called poor of this country to have health insurance”
NO Michelle, it means LOWER MIDDLE CLASS WORKING PEOPLE who DON’T have health care provided by their employer and have been priced out of individual health care plans will now be able to BUY health care through these exchanges with subsidies being provided on a sliding scale.
“Americans don’t trust this government, because just as the catholic church as been invaded by wack job liberal nuns who believe in social justice, so has the US government..”
Someone has been watching Glenn Beck again. Garbage in, garbage out (just extra bits of Irish crazy stuck to it), no surprises here.
Hey Vern! You get a wireless connection in jail?
Oh my, it’s our friend “Golightly” again. I’d been meaning to grill this useless commenter over his name. At first I just figured, he was one of those tragic closeted gay GOP figures – Golightly seemed to be a reference to Audrey Hepburn’s character in “Breakfast at Tiffany’s”, who I’m aware is a gay icon, right up there with Marilyn, Madonna, and Sharon Stone.
But more recently it’s been drawn to my attention that “Go Lightly” is also a very powerful, “industrial strength” laxative. Not making this up. You can trust but verify here: http://www.drugstore.com/templates/stdplist/default.asp?catid=172&aid=336064&aparam=go%20lightly%20laxative&scinit1=go%20lightly%20laxative And, given the excretory nature of most of this gentleman’s scribblings, I’m ASSuming this is a connection we are INTENDED to make.
If this fellow’s point is to make us all want to defecate while shilling for the product he apparently sells, he runs a real risk of going into the spam folder. Maybe a new name is in order, something that communicates the true quality of his commentary without advertising his shilling too blatantly. Last I checked, “Ex-Lax RethugliKlan” was still available. Just a suggestion?
Costa Rica has national healthcare……..you can get in line behind Rush Limpbag.
Interesting to note that not one person here from the right has commented, in any meaningful way, on the substance of Frum’s editorial.
Yes Rush is in a hurry to go where they already have a government run program, how interesting.
glen beck is great he tells it like it and anoster does not like it . nothing new here
Vern,
I think Golightly has EARNED the delete button.
anonster, I’ve been having more fun either altering the prick’s comments or ridiculing his name. (Just between you and me, he’s been TRYING to use new names, but I can see from the IP it’s still old Golightly teasing me about my jail time, so I change his name back! The awesome power of the OJ blogger.)
“NO Michelle, it means LOWER MIDDLE CLASS WORKING PEOPLE who DON’T have health care provided by their employer and have been priced out of individual health care plans will now be able to BUY health care through these exchanges with subsidies being provided on a sliding scale.”
MQ SAYS:
When the feds state poverty line they are not talking about the middle class.. Caloptima is a perfect example of what will happen to this so called health care… the lower middle class and upper middle class will pay for insurance up the ying yang as it is to day and the so called poor.. ie.. illegal aliens, losers, (drug addicts) will benefit from it.. JUST LIKE CALOPTIMA. The middle class can not compete with the continued decrease in the poverty line that is caused by an ever increase of losers and illegal immigrants.
“Someone has been watching Glenn Beck again. Garbage in, garbage out (just extra bits of Irish crazy stuck to it), no surprises here”.
MQ says:
I dont know if Glenn Beck has realized the catholic church in the US has been taken over by a bunch of left wing wack jobs especially the nuns… In Orange Country St. Joseph nuns have their very own, “social justice center”, run by a hispanic activist who stated to me that the Catholic church is very much involved in Immigration reform, social justice for all and environmental causes…. ANY ONE SAY, LIBERAL WACK JOB!
I dont give a dime to St josephs and i would never work for them again.. they do not represent my church and its teachings.. As far as the US bishops are concerned, ” IS SOCIAL JUSTICE WORKING FOR YA – YOU JUST GOT THROWN UNDER THE BUS BY THE YOUR LEFT WING NUNS!
Michelle,
“When the feds state poverty line they are not talking about the middle class.”
We’re NOT talking about the POOR who live at or below the Federal Poverty Line, we’re talking about people ABOVE it;
“Individuals and families who make between 100 percent – 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies.”
A family of four that makes 100% of the Federal Poverty Level (2009; 22,050.00) would get a bigger subsidy to buy health care than a family of four making 400% (2009; 88,200.00) of the FPL. These are families that NEED help affording health care. The poor ALREADY receive government health care, IT WILL BE STRUGGLING MIDDLE CLASS INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES THAT WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS BILL.
I know this might be hard for your pea-sized brain and your even smaller heart to take, but really lady, take a chill pill, it’s happening.
their is the great small mind of anoster . im better than you , you know nothing , you have a pea sized brain . look in the mirror ..who are you to tell people who earn a good living that they have to give their hard earn money to the gov to pay for this . this is not canada , cuba, you dont like it anoster LEAVE . AND TAKE YOUR PEA SIZED BRAIN WITH YOU .
So families of 4 making 88,200 a year have been priced out of buying insurance? Lets say they even want to live in a 2 bedroom apartment for 1600 a month. Where the hell is the rest of their $69,000 going? Oh that’s right they aren’t paying 1600 a month to live somewhere they can afford without being a drain on society.
I’m all for the extremely needy getting health care which as you pointed out already receive it, but many “struggling middle class individuals and families” are struggling because they made and continue to make extremely poor decisions in regards to their financial lives. Personally I don’t think anyone with a house or even a car should get free or subsidized insurance. Go live on the cheap in an apartment, or take the bus to work/school like so many do before you expect to be given money. I took the bus 2 years from Santa Ana to UCI because I couldn’t afford a car out of HS, but you better believe my single mom made damn sure I bought my own health insurance with what money I did have.
Another Guy,
Your values and self reliance is what made this country so great. The problem is that people like Anonster most likely makes a lot of money as either a public worker or works for a 501. The poor have become a cash cow for many people. These people could not care less about the poor they care only about a job or easy cash. There is absolutely no way that this health care will cover everyone equally, the poor will get it free and the middle class will end up paying for it..
Caloptima is a brilliant example of this.. middle class families who have lost their jobs can not get health insurance from caloptima they have too many assets ie.. home, car ect.. this is what will happen with this health care bill.. No doubt about it!
I bet Anonster is a baby boomer, who are the worst generation this country has seen. They are running this country into the ground in DC and at the local level. Greedy baskets who have lived their lives and now are wanting to destroy ours… yeah there are a few of our generation going down the same path, especially if they are educated in the UC’s. Left wing think tanks poisoning minds with Social justice crap ( dean of UCI law, great example).
This health care disaster will pass, but baby boomers will die and its up to our generation to fix the obvious .. get rid of Political correctness and greed and eliminate welfare so that future Americans will have your values and self reliance.
Give your mum a big kiss, she taught you well:)