In a city with a terrible lack of park space, Santiago Park is a veritable oasis. The park is located in north Santa Ana, within easy walking distance of the MainPlace Mall. The new CityPlace shopping center is located right across the street.
I like to walk my dog there, along the trail on the north side of the park. I was doing that just yesterday, in the morning, when we came across two men who were loitering on either side of the trail. As I passed them I turned around and took a picture of them with my Blackberry phone. Then I called the Santa Ana Police Department.
You can see the picture of the two men above. I could not discern what they were up to. They were just lurking there. Below, in the riverbed, another guy was loitering on a bike. And it got worse.
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Why don’t you ask Jubal?
I was jogging down there once. Some guy that looked like count chocula jumped out of the bushes at me. He said his name was phil and he needed a ride to the quill because the night owl routes on octa stopped running.
It’s common knowledge this park has been used for sexual diviants of the homosexual type as a quick fling meet up place for a number of years now.
Gerardo Mouet, executive director of Parks & Rec and some of the other top brass in the city simply lack the courage to clean up the park and make it safe for children and hetrosexual adults alike.It seems to me besides inforcing the lewd conduct law, a number of well placed signs that read, “SAY NO TO CRACK IN SANTIAGO PARK,” will help solve the problem.
I didn’t jump out of the bushes. Fraudio pushed me. He said I had a better chance at getting someone to give me a ride and then I could tell them I had a friend. Fraudio said I should invite that person to join us in mooching drinks at the Quill.
Google Santiago Park and homosexual cruising and you will find this has been a problem park for a long time. About 10 years ago the Park Santiago Neighborhood had a group of volunteers who would patrol the park and call police when they saw problems and picked up the used condones, rubber gloves, and underwear. At that time an officer named Jeff Owen headed up a task force to stop the crimes. They took care of most of it for a time but then the Homosexual rights groups teamed with the ACLU came forward and threatened to sue the city. The city attorney folded like a house of cards and the Councils since have not made it a priority. It’s a shame because one of the best parks in the city is hardly used by mom’s and kids because of these men. Drive by at lunch during the week and you will see men in suits, in cars, and walking around and chatting up young Mexican men/boys before making their way to the deep brushy areas. Sad, Sick, and a lost park for our children. The Council also fired the Nature director at the park which helped program good uses.
For gay marriage but against gay men in your local park.
What is up with that?
Maybe Congresswoman Sanchez can help. Her top staff member, Raul Luna (Former SAPD officer) , was involved in the clean up years ago. See attached article.
http://www.glapn.org/sodomylaws/usa/california/canews02.htm
maybe these guys are just looking to play hide the Stromboli with you. You are, what they call in the homosexual commnity, a “bear”. All kidding aside, this IS Santa Ana. Why should this park be any less foul than any other Santa Ana park? If you wan to live in a nice community with even nicer parks, you should move to South Orange County. I know you could afford to live down there. Why keep shoveling sh@&t against the tide in Santa Ana? You can send your kids to superior schools and not have them matriculate with savages. Santa Ana is a lost cause, come over to the dark side my friend, there’s plenty of room.
Cook,
I am 100% for gay rights – but no one has a right to have sex in our public parks. This is indecent behavior that we should not tolerate!
Public sex is wrong. People are free to have sex with any consenting adult 18 and over as long as they do it in their home or hotel room or what not.
I dont think cities should use decoys, but at least have park rangers or police to patrol the area at least once a hour.
At least make the punishment for public sex stronger during times families and children would use the parks at least.
NO wonder Todd said that place was off limits to me.
But seriouly, I agree with Matt. Decoys are questionable and would result in the city being back in court. But increased patrols would be a great idea or perhaps even a group that was willing to have a volunter community watch, since there is really not money to pay for patrols.
maybe they are day laborers. perhaps we should have the city sponser an area where they can all meet and look for ….
“I dont think cities should use decoys, but at least have park rangers or police to patrol the area at least once a hour.”
Many of the finest leaders in the Santa Ana Neighborhood association movement are gay. French Park, Floral Park, Wilshire Square, Park Santiago, were all built up by the hard work of openly gay men, lesbians and bi-sexual residents who love Santa Ana. Why won’t these same openly homosexual individuals support police action to stop these crimes? Why don’t they speak up on this forum? Several gay readers have stated they are opposed to decoys and claim they would support increased patrols. That’s just support of the status quo because they know there will never be enough money to constantly patrol the park and only make an arrest when they catch men in sexual acts. Decoys are the only way to make arrests on street prostitutes (ask the neighbors near Harbor Blvd. if they want to the use of decoys stopped there!) and drug dealers. The only way these men will stop coming to Santiago Park is if they fear arrest and don’t know if the man they proposition might be a cop. Public sex ruins parks and when you combine it with the modern day use of the internet you have a recipe for a park which will no longer be used by families and law abiding citizens.
I would not be against decoys as long as there are a few signs warning people that public lewdness will not be tolerated, and some public service announcement type signs like arrest for sex in a public park = lifetime sex offender registry don’t risk it.
It would be like DUI checkpoints, give warning at least.
There is a counter argument for decoys on this webpage.
http://gaytoday.badpuppy.com/garchive/viewpoint/121498vi.htm
I like Matt from Ontario’s (Is that Ontario, CA or perhaps a Canadian reader of O.J.! Welcome) comments and ideas. I think signage, especially the “Lifetime Sex Offender Registry” part might help keep those who are looking for public sex, hetro or gay, out of the park. How can we get those signs installed Art? Are you close to any councilmembers and could make the request?
The signs alone will not take care of it though. You need to have the police using decoys. These people how commit these crimes are willing to risk a lot to satisfy their desires. Anyone who has seen Chris Hanson’s 20/20 To Catch a Predator show (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Catch_a_Predator
Has seen man after man show up at a house to commit sex crimes with kids even though they are aware of the To Catch a Predator program and how it works. You are fighting against powerful forces and only arrests will help to clean up the park I’m afraid.
I told my friend Tommy “Boy” Gordon to get over to Santiago Park and catch those guys who are looking for indicriminate sex in the park. I reminded him how he likes to catch Grafitti Taggers and Prostitutes on Harbor Blvd. (this got him arrested). He should do the same at the Park and clean it up!
Valley High Falcon,
Here is the letter I emailed to my Councilman, Carlos Bustamante, and to the entire City Council:
Councilman Bustamante,
I recently posted an article on my blog about the problem we are having at Santiago Park with men who openly loiter. You can read it at this link: http://newsantaana.com/2010/01/17/why-do-so-many-solitary-men-lurk-at-santa-anas-santiago-park/.
I would like to make you aware of this problem and ask that you and the City Council get together with SAPD Chief Paul Walters and Parks and Recreation Director Gerardo Mouet and draft a plan of action to deal with this problem.
It is a matter of time before one of these men commits a criminal act upon one of our residents. Furthermore, they are leaving behind materials that could carry bloodborne pathogens. You will read about that in my article.
Consider that the tunnel that these men often use to hide while they commit their acts leads directly to the Discovery Science Center. That tunnel is often used by schoolchildren when they are on field trips. Furthermore, the CityPlace shopping center is right across the street and the MainPlace Mall is also within easy walking distance. If these problems are not resolved they could cause problems for all of these businesses and organizations.
From what I understand, this problem has been allowed to fester for years. That is an embarrassment. We need to take action now.
Some of the ideas my readers have suggested include the use of police decoys; public signage warning against loitering and lewd acts; and citizen patrols as well as the use of more park rangers and police officers.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
Why does it matter if it’s homosexuals or heterosexuals? Prostitution and sex in public is against the law. I’m a resident and runner, and would never enter that park day or night. It’s a pig hole. How about more park rangers?
Several signs stating that undercover officers may be present, Lewd acts, drug dealing and other illegal activity will not be tolerated. I think that along with some specific training for officers working there so to avoid entrapment problems would be the way to go. Plus working with a citizen patrol that could help officers detect suspect individuals would go a long way towards reducing the problem. Or at least the problem wil move somewhere else.
I suspect that some of the people there may be pretending in real life that they are straight, others may have an addiction problem. Some self honesty and perhaps some mandatory SCA meetings might be helpful also.
“Many of the finest leaders in the Santa Ana Neighborhood association movement are gay. French Park, Floral Park, Wilshire Square, Park Santiago, were all built up by the hard work of openly gay men, lesbians and bi-sexual residents who love Santa Ana.
I couldn’t agree more with the above poster. I worked on the recall and remember three men in particular who did a fantastic job! I believe their names were David, Timothy, and Darin, but I can’t remember for sure.
Just re-read my post. I meant to say I worked on the recall of Nativo Lopez. Not to be confused with Anthony Adams.
Could you also please text City Manager Dave Ream with the link so he can review the letters? Perhaps Mr. Ream would like to set up a Twitter account so we can tweet him when we see sex crimes taking place.
Madre de Delhi,
I know of no way to contact Ream, but you can email his assistant, Mark Lawrence, at MLawrence@santa-ana.org. Mark is VERY responsive.
No one should have sex in a public park? I think if you took a poll, you would find that many readers have had sex in public parks.
I have been to this park often and have not ever been bothered by the man/man love club.
Even tho I assume that some to many of the single men I see there in the park are gay, I have not seen any (men) having sex in the forty plus years I’ve visited the park.
Add a poll on public sex to this post and lets see how many readers are open minded and how many are prudes,
Where is Thomas Anthony Gordon when you need him? Thomas you like to catch criminals, so what are you waiting for?
cook….puleeeze. It’s not about sex in a public park. It’s about the slimy underworld of sex for sale. With that comes sex with minors, robberies, drug use etc.
well the locals should partol their neighborhood park just like before.
“well the locals should partol their neighborhood park ”
Because there are never any articles in the paper about someone getting stabbed or shot in Santa Ana! How bad could it be to ask a few men to leave your park? I’m sure you will be treated with respect and be in no danger. Any volunteers for the graveyard shift?
Fed-Up: “With that comes sex with minors, robberies, drug use etc.” Really??!! … I thought these guys were looking for a quick wank?? Next you’ll post that pot smoking leads to heroin addiction.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not the advocate for public sex. No way. I think there is a problem that needs addressed.
But don’t you think that the gang graffiti and poorly kept park grounds are more offensive than some dudes standing in bushes? If you’re going to target a group, how about the gangs? TheIr crimes have real victims … The kind that die. We need lights on the path, more police foot patrol, community patrol, and removal of the under brush where people “meet” … I’m sure if we make it inconvenient for ANY crime to take place, we will all feel more comfortable using our beautiful Santiago Park all the time.
Really…you are naive. People who pay for sex often get robbed instead of getting sex, kids who don’t look like kids sell sex, and many many people sell sex for drugs. Yeah, Really!
I recently moved into the neighborhood and have been to the park a few times to walk my dog. I have noticed men at the park also. I am not sure why they are there. I have wondered-are they just there to relax, are they there to sell drugs, are they there for prostitution or are they looking for anomymous sex? I am not going to ask them nor am I going to follow them and take pictures of them to find out. I have also noticed a homeless man sleeping in the bushes and a lot of tagging and graffiti. I do not find loney men looking for anonymous sex threatenting. I find it sad. I do not find an old cold man sleeping in the bushes threatening. I find it sad. I do find drug deals, prostitution and gangs hanging out in the park threating. Would I walk up to any of them and ask them to leave the park? No! Would I call the police, if I saw a drug deal going down or if I saw a prostiute and a trick making a deal or if I saw a group of young men that looked like gang members? Yes! Would I call the police if I saw a homeless man or a lonely man looking for anayomous sex? No! It is just sad.
#32,
It is only a matter of time before one of these so-called “lonely men” attacks a child. Why wait for that to happen? Perverts don’t belong at our parks!
I agree that residents should not have to deal with potentially dangerious fiends. This is something the police should do. This needs to be a priority.
I too feel bad for the homeless. There simply are not many resources in town for them. That is a failure of both the city and the county government. More beds are needed to be sure.
Again, sex should NOT be happening at our public parks, ever. That is disgusting. We should not tolerate this.
I cannot believe that there are folks out there that are willing to tolerate this type of behavior in our parks.
Where are the “usual suspects”?
I am sure if there was a proliferation of vendor trucks servicing Latinos in Santiago Park the whole crew would be at city hall raising a ruckus.
Art,
I am not saying I want “so-called ‘lonely men'” hanging out in the park. I am only saying I do not find them threatening. Loney men hanging out at parks or not, I have three childred and I have never let any of them at any time go to ANY park alone. I just find other things going on in the park more disturbing and wish they were being addressed. The tltle and content of your blog clearly communicates that you feel different. You have made the leap from “so-called ‘loney-men'” to child molester. If you look at the police investigation during 2000 you will see no mention of child molestation or that any of the 111 arrests involed any children. Taking pictures of men and posting pictures of them on the internet and insinuating that they are “lurking” and that it is just a matter time before they will become child molesters is disturbing. Next time just call the police. I on the other hand won’t.
35,
You obviously didn’t read the entire post. I did call the police and I did speak to the park ranger.
Are these men molestors? Who knows. Why find out the hard way? Do you really want to find out the hard way?
Art,
I read your post. You obviously didn’t read MY entire post. I said JUST call the police. There is no need to post pictures of innocent men on the internet insinuating that they are perverts. Unless you followed them and know that these men actually where lewd. Did you? I don’t know if they are molestors. I don’t plan on finding out the hard way. That is why I always accompany my childern when they go to ANY park. Molestors are everywhere. This is not Salem and you should not be taking pictures of innocent people.
Art,
Perhaps the City can schedule more events like the Rubber Boot Race at the park in order to get the message across that the park should be used for more family friendly activities rather for nefarious ones.
Now I know why I felt queasy during the Race a few years back. I had heard similar rumors about that park from a City employee friend of mine from twenty years back! I never really believed him but over the years I began to hear more and more similar stories about Santiago Park. No longer does it puzzle me why I never see family gatherings at that park.
#37,
Lol! If I don’t take and post the pictures, people like you will say, “where’s the proof?”
The pictures are fuzzy for a reason. But they serve to make the point. We have a problem at Santiago Park. It is past time to start working on a solution.
Where are the “usual suspects”?
They are fed up trying to do anything to help clean up little Mexico, its a lost cause… unless you get some new and diverse blood on the boards!
The solution is start allowing the cops to do their jobs.
Stop using money to train officers to be camp councilers for gangs..
You complain all the time about the lack of parks in Santa Ana – yet the only park you have the people dont care enough to help clean up.. Everything about the city is a direct result of a populas that could neither give a dam about their children or having a park in the neigbourhood where the kids can play.
As i was told from a teacher that works in Santa Ana, if you can get a couple of the parents to show up at a parent/teacher meeting your lucky. As she stated the schools even pay for interputers, but it not the language barrier that is the problem, its the lack of involvement in the community or their children’s education!
You change this, parks will pop up all over the place, because families will want them.
Art,
There you go again. You don’t know me so don’t presume I would say “where’s the proof”. I originally googled Santiago Park because I was looking for it’s history when I saw your post. It is an old beautiful park, something you don’t see very often in Orange County. I agree with the 38th post. The City should schedule events and use the park for what it was intended. I will continue to walk my dog and sugguest that others in the neighborhood use the park also. Perhaps this will discourage unwanted behavior. The content of this post only creates fear and disourages people for using the park for the purpose it was intented.
“The content of this post only creates fear and disourages people for using the park for the purpose it was intented.”
New Neighbor,
It is the folks that are engaging in lewd and illegal behavior that is the problem not this post. Stop with the “blame the messenger” tactic and place the blame where it lies, with those using the park like singles bar or swingers club.
Sean,
Sorry I will edit my previous post. “I originally googled Santiago Park because I was looking for it’s history when I saw your post. It is an old beautiful park, something you don’t see very often in Orange County. I agree with the 38th post. The City should schedule events and use the park for what it was intended. I will continue to walk my dog and sugguest that others in the neighborhood use the park also. Perhaps this will discourage unwanted behavior.” Better?
Hi there everyone, I’m new to this blog. Today and yesterday were two very interesting days. I moved to this neighborhood from south county and love it!! Took two trips with my little one to the park this past week and was a little uneasy from what I saw. Same everyone else, men in cars lurking in the park, some dressed up, some wearing dark glasses and conspicuously hiding in their cars. They were watching me too! Not sexually but as though they suspect me as some undercover person.
Please note that I lived in Santa Monica, West Hollywood and would see the same thing in parks at these two cities, I knew what was going on then due to an old friend. He was a wonderful gay man, my best friend, who unfortunately died of Aid. He educated me on what these men would do in the park, so I was pretty familiar with the actions of the men at Santiago park.
I was so disturbed on what I saw today, I got on the computer and Googled “Gay Sex in Santiago Park”, and found all these articles and blogs. “I KNEW IT!”, I shouted to my husband. Now what?! Now that I’ve read everyones comments and know that this park is not safe and Creepy where do I go back to south county! I THINK NOT! I’m assuming people who live in the neighborhood don’t go to this park??? Isn’t there a Sheriff K-9 training school in this neighborhood?
I do notice these men start leaving the park around 4 pm not sure if thats when the joggers, families come out or what. What happen to the patrol groups in 1996??
Why doesn’t the city take their park back?? So much history and culture here can’t there be a great park to match. I really want to do something about this. Can we start a group again, is the police actively doing anything about this????
Sounds the original poster is the weirdo for taking pics of the guys. Why did it bother you that they were hanging out. They had just as much right to be there as you.
I’ve lived near the park since 1997 and at first yeah it was a place where guys hooked up. That was years ago. They cleaned up the park and the trails have been cleared. The brush was cleared off the trail but the nice trees remain. I enjoy jogging through there and riding my bike. Lots of people visit the park not from the trails to the playground.
The part about guys in suits trolling for young boys and taking them to the brush is pure BS
I meant from many people visit the park from the trails to the playgrounds. This topic would have made sense 7 years ago but its not a bad park. If anyone wants to avoid the park just in case then be my guess. Its a hidden park and I enjoy that its not over-run with people
Jay,
After we broke this story, the SAPD conducted a sweep at Santiago Park and arrested almost a dozen perverts.
The fact is, this remains a problem. Soonner or later one of the lurkers will turn out to be a predator and the bodies will start to pile up.
Better to drive these perverts out of our park!
“The bodies will start to pile up”… give me a break!!!
First, you insinuate all gay men are pedophiles. Now, apparently they are all serial killers??? Get a grip, Mr. Pedroza. You are a disgusting homophobe. If I had children I would definitely let them loose in the park before I ever let them interact with your bigoted, hateful attitude.
This was from the previous owner of the blog, from more than a decade ago. If you’d like to communicate with him, go to the New Santa Ana blog.