In an article in the Sydney Morning Herald, President Obama is signaling an endgame in the Afghan war. LINK
Barack Obama has for the first time flagged the need for an endgame in the strategy for Afghanistan, saying he did not want to leave the next US president with an open-ended commitment to a conflict that has already raged for eight years. In a series of interviews from Beijing with US network and cable channels, Mr Obama said a decision on troop numbers and a refined strategy was close. He told CNN he believed his Afghan policy needed to include an endgame because ”unless you impose that kind of discipline, [US policy] could end up leading to a multiyear occupation that won’t serve the interests of the United States”.
What a refreshing change from the last guy who started two wars, had zero exit strategy and left the mess for the next guy. WTG, Obama! Of course, war is often tolerated because the actual consequences are hidden pretty well from public view. Sneaking bodies back from the killing fields with no press coverage, attacking war ojectors as being unpatriotic, denying support to returning troops resulting in large numbers of mentally ill and homeless veterans, and hiding the high costs of injuries to the troops and their families are serious issues that our fine soldiers must bear. WHAT WOULD HAPPEN if the public were informed, daily, about the true consequences of war? I doubt that many readers have the stomach to think about the consequences, but if you find it is time to take a stand, please view the above clip. I’d appreciate any comments from engaged viewers 🙂
More from the linked article: Senior military and Administration officials said Mr Obama was not asking for firm, publicly declared handover dates like those in early Iraq war plans. Instead, the officials said, the Administration wants the Pentagon to identify important milestones for Afghanistan to reach, in its governance and the capability of its security forces, and then give a rough sense of when each objective is likely to be achieved. Reaching these goals would allow the US role to shift away from direct combat, allowing troop levels to decline. ”What the White House wants is a strategic glide path that gives a sense of the path ahead and the time it will take to meet each specific target,” a military official said. ”It’s not a hard-and-fast timetable for withdrawal.” The President said his goal was to ensure that his successor does not inherit the conflict.
I say, bring home the troops from that hell hole in the middle east. The cost of blood and treasure is too high. Rv – –
What’s this got to do with Orange County??
Why don’t you mention that suicide rates among the general public are HIGHER than the military? Inconvenient facts that get in the way of your argument that doesn’t belong here anyway?
What’s this got to do with Orange County??
We can write about whatever the hell we want to here, Hanson. And do you really think nobody from the OC is serving out there? And our taxes aren’t paying for it? And our security isn’t being affected for better or worse with this war? Anyway Red Vixen could write about Easter Peeps if she wants, it’s none of your business.
suicide rates among the general public are HIGHER than the military
Is that really true? I’m surprised and skeptical. Can you provide a link to that data? Or did you make it up / hear it on Rush?
Hanson. While I agree with my brother Vern, in that no one dictates what topics we cover, I take issue with Red blaming president Bush for the current state of affairs in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Before jumping on Bush 43 she might peel the onion back further and listen to Navy Sec Lehman who described terrorists confidance in our being weak after inaction in the Cole and other attacks which predated 9-11. He made those comments when we attended the Reagan Library two weeks ago.
We are in a new game fighting an enemy that is not directly connected to any foreign power. In Vietnam the VC were our waiters during the day and at night switched to their black PJ’s and attacked allied troops. Although this is not a jungle setting, the concept remains the same. You have difficulty separating the enemy from friendly’s if in fact we know who the friendly’s are?
In our interviewat the Nixon Library I asked former Sec “Cap” Weinberger if we had an exit strategy for Iraq or words ot that effect. I also asked him if Iran presented a “clear and present danger” to which he said no.
President Reagan’s comments about ending the Cold War were simple. “We win and they lose.” Easier said than done in these times.
I’m guessing now (maybe I’m wrong) that Hanson’s little factoid minimizing military suicides is something Rush spewed into his mouth, and he spewed second hand here. If so, this is chickenhawk propaganda motivated by real unconcern for the troops. Shame on you.
dont you just love these far left lefties like FAR LEFT VERN and anti our military commi red . blame bushy for everything . in 3 more years after this bozo we have in there now bush will look like a fog . but then of course far left vern and commi red will still blame him for all of NOBAMAS BLUNDERS . and if it comes from rush its not true . well if it comes from keith o or rachel m . its not true too .
I would like to welcome Hanson to the discussions. Looks like you may be a first time poster, here at OJ and we appreciate your participation. 🙂
Having said that, I see that Larry and Vern are in agreement – us posters get to start any thread we think is of interest/relevant to discussions. That is very true. Art runs a blog in which we all have final say in what we write about – he’s a very permissive Daddy, so to speak 😉
And sooooo having said THAT – I really am baffled WHY you wouldn’t think that the CONSEQUENCES OF WAR don’t impact OC severely, because they do. So much so, that Calif., Superior Court Judge Wendy Lindley created California’s first criminal treatment court for U.S. military veterans in November after a 27-year-old man who had served in Iraq died in a drug overdose within weeks of passing through her courtroom. It is a concept that is spreading nationwide. But its inception started here in the OC: http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202426915992&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1
Also, a VERY active pro-military group, NAMI (National Alliance on Military Issues), has a set of startling statistics, for anyone who is genuinely concerned about our returning war heroes-
Consider these alarming statistics:
— Almost 1 in 3 Veterans returning from Afghanistan and Iraq confront
mental health problems.
— In 2006, the suicide rate in the Army reached its highest level in 26
years.
— Approximately 30% of veterans treated in the Veterans health system
suffer from depressive symptoms, two to three times the rate of the
general population.
— Approximately 40% of homeless veterans have mental illnesses.
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS171568+30-Sep-2008+PRN20080930
So, in summation, returning soldiers make up 10% of the people going thru the criminal court system and a full 30% percent of returning soldiers have some form of mental illness that will need specialized care.
Don’t you guys CARE about the EFFECTS of war? WHY do you think that the OC is exempt from the grave consequences of war that has been allowed to continue with no end in sight? Military experts agree that troop morale is dependent upon clear military objectives that include exit criteria. Obama has pledged to have that in place.
This, after all those years of Bush and his friends calling for unlimited war in the ME region. There’s the contrast for all you armchair warriors Rv – –
#3 Larry,
“Before jumping on Bush 43 she might peel the onion back further and listen to Navy Sec Lehman who described terrorists confidance in our being weak after inaction in the Cole and other attacks which predated 9-11.”
According to the 9-11 commission, confirmation of Al Qaeda’s involvement in the bombing of the USS Cole came 6 DAYS AFTER BUSH JR. TOOK OFFICE, so again, ANY INACTION was JR’S FAULT.
anonster,
Welcome to this thread and for injecting some reality into the discussions. Chickenhawks like Bush and Cheney have done a world of disservice to our active and returning troops. Obama has yet ANOTHER Bush/Cheney mess to fix. I am betting he will get this one right, as well as the other reversals he’s had to take on.
Red. Disservice? You have really gone off the reservation on that comment.
As we each have rear view mirrors perhaps you should look back at president Bill Clinton who was too busy playing golf with Vernon Jordan when he refused to take a vital call which resulted in a mission being called off. Let me suggest that you go to your local library and take out or purchase “Dereliction of Duty” (and War Crimes) by USAF Lt. Col. “Buzz” Patterson whom we interviewed on the Cutting Edge. “Buzz” is a former military aid who carried the “nuclear football” for President Clinton.
A few hooks to get your attention. Read the book and you will learn “how president Clinton lost the nuclear codes and never found them; how Bill Clinton kept American pilots in the air waiting for the go ahead to strike Iraq–while he played golf. Result: mission scrapped and how President Clinton remained “unavailable” and missed a golden opportunity to take out Osama bin Laden long before Sept 11, 2001.”
To back up Buzz’s claims you might also read another author whom we also interviewed on the Cutting Edge a few years ago. Gary Berntsen, the CIA’s key field commander, recipient of the Distinguished Intelligence and Intelligence Star medals, covers his Afghanistan tracking of bin Laden in his CIA heavily redacted book “Jawbreaker” where he covers the attacks on US Embassies during the Clinton Administration to his teams efforts to get Osama in Afghanistan.
Pgs 67 & 68 read in part that “in 1994 the Saudi Arabian government stripped him (bin Laden) of his citizenry and forced him to leave. After a two year stop in Sudan, he returned to Afghanistan and teamed up with Egyptian militant Ayman al-Zawahiri to plan for war. In 1998 the two men co-signed a “fatwa”. .. declaring: “The ruling is to kill Americans and their allies, civilians and military.” Reading further Gary reports that “by the year 2000, al Qaeda had established terrorist cells in as many as 60 countries around the world, and had attracted thousands of young jihadists to its terrorist training camps and bases in eastern Afghanistan.”
Gary goes on to describe the aftermath of the USS Cole bombing and a Special Agent of the FBI leading the investigation. He than writes that “the problem would be the response. President Clinton and his advisors would repeat a pattern that started with the 1996 Khobar Towers attack in Saudi Arabia that left 19 USAF personnel dead. They would demand evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt, and even when it was incontrovertible, responded weakly or not at all. What they needed to do was launch an immediate US Special Operations raid into Afghanistan to destroy bin Laden and his chief lieutenants.”
Red. Before throwing rocks at president Bush you might spend some time getting the facts behind the events leading up to our situation in Afghanistan today.
#8 Red,
Obama inherited a quagmire and political quicksand, he had hoped to turn security over to the Karzai govt. but the elections over the summer have made it clear that that will never happen. The right thing to do is drawdown and leave, unfortunately that will be portrayed by the “always wrong warmongers” as “surrendering” and that leaves Obama with a very unpalatable choice. We can only hope that he has the fortitude to stand-up to the chicken hawks and our crazy right-wing media.
i love clowns like anmonster blame bush for everything . will you blame nobama when he brings this country down . no you will blame bush and the right wing media haaaaaaaaaa wich ones msnbc haaaaaaaaa cbs , abc , nbc , the ny times , l.a times , last night on palins book tour your station msnbc was saying things like its only a all white crowd like that was some kind of penalty . could you think of if they said it was a all black crowd at a denzell or al sharpton book signing . the far right media haaaa what a joke.. take off the i hate america seeing glasses .
Sounds like the poster’s are ready to “go to war” over who is at fault.
It is the US Congress’s fault.
They are the responsible organization.
They should have DECLARED WAR and authorized unrestricted warfare just like in WWII.
The other side is fighting an unrestricted war.
Sounds like the poster’s are ready to “go to war” over who is at fault.
Good call, Cook. They drag out some dusty battles as an excuse substituted as “debate”. Obviously these chickenhawk cheerleaders have NO skin in the game at all. If they had an ounce of humanity, they would have looked at the video and stuck to the points of concern that our brave young men and women have to deal with.
They don’t give a crap about our troops. They never will. Yet, they are the first to wave a flag and then deny critical services and assistance to our troops. Thank god, their supreme “war president” leader is out of power.
Grate one,
Please have your mommy proof read your posts before you hit submit!
RV #13: Nice jujitsu Red. We both know that’s not where Cook is coming from, but it should be.
I hope folks notice that I TRY not to bring up Bush & Cheney, and blame everything on them, even though we all know how we got into the dire straits we’re in. More interested in what we do now…
#11 Larry,
“They would demand evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt, and even when it was incontrovertible, ”
Let’s hope so, the Iraq DEBACLE is what happens when you shoot first and put “proof” second!
Anonster. I guess you would need a jury of 12 men and women to witness them killing then hanging four Americans on that bridge in Fallujah, Iraq to find them guilty.
You are just what the doctor ordered. We need more dove’s in America like you.
I bet you didn’t attend any Veterans Day ceremonies last week to thank those who put their lives on the line so that you can enjoy the freedom to attack those of us who support our military, past and present.
You can not fight a gorllia war. The British learned this fighting the IRA. If your enemy wears the cloths of civilians, it is impossible to know friend from foe.
I don’t believe we should have went into Iraq. I think we should have banned all travel from the enemy countries to the US. All assets from the enemy counties in the US should have been seized. And all muslims profiled up the ying yang in this country and through out Europe.
I bet terrorists in the enemy countries would then have been grass!
Good lives should not be losed to save face!
#18 Larry,
What an ASS you are! Questioning my support of veterans because I dare to speak the truth about the war in Iraq and YOUR man Bush JR. (yeah, it is ALL HIS FAULT). Iraq was and is a bullshit war that had NOTHING to do with freedom, ours or the Iraqi’s, and EVERYTHING to do with OIL and GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS.
YOU are the one who DOESN’T SUPPORT OUR MILITARY, I can’t imagine ANYONE who claims to value veterans and their service sticking up for GEORGE W BUSH’S LIES. LIES that resulted in the DEATHS of over 4,000 Americans and a TRILLION DOLLARS OF DEBT and that is NOT even mentioning the HORRORS we have visited on the people of Iraq and all for MONEY!
You are just an ignorant tool who has confused warmongering with patriotism.
Oh, and by the way, I visited my VETERAN uncle last week, Pearl Harbor Survivor/POW (Battle of the Bulge) and he thinks Bush and Cheney should be tried for WAR CRIMES too.
Not only that, but I guess you would need a jury of 12 men and women to witness them killing then hanging four Americans on that bridge in Fallujah, Iraq to find them guilty.
Wha….? Is that what Larry remembers as the provocation that led Bush to invade Iraq? Jesus Christ.