Once again we have had to set up a new SAUSD corruption thread as the last one started to run slow with all the comments on it.
Our schools are in crisis today – not just here in Santa Ana but all over the state. The only thing we know for sure is that we are going to take more budget hits.
I am amazed that the SAUSD hired back all their laid off administrators. How crazy is that? Class sizes are growing, good teachers are laid off, and the union, as usual, is asleep at the wheel.
We will continue to reason through all this here at the Orange Juice blog! We can but hope for the best…
Class sizes: intermediate, non QEIA:
Max size at my school is 40 and most have 40. Music and PE have up to 55.
How many class periods a day, tmare? How many students do you see each day? What high school do you feed, if you’re not comfortable naming you’re own school?
Six classes per day, feeding into all schools but mostly Godinez and Segerstrom. Yes, that’s up to 240 students for the non-PE and music teachers. It’s been this way for years.
Omygod 240 students each day … let’s do some math. The most cursory review of a student assignment ( collecting, sorting, a quick glance over, writing a single comment, recording a score, transfering to computer) takes a minimum 2 minutes per paper. 2 assignments per week per student X 2 minutes per assignment X 240 students = 16 hours extra per week for a teacher . It ain’t happening …the time isn’t there. I’m sure middle school students are given regular writing assignments and math assignments, but there is no time to insure any quality to that work or that the student has done it honestly. This would explain a lot about the skill and knowledge level of students entering our high schools. I have 170 a day, and that is just about the edge where an experienced teacher can actually address quality and progress of each student .. that’s with total commitment. You in middle schools have been pushed so far over the edge … I don’t know what to say… ‘cept I’m thankful I’m not there.
Obviously the District is not interested in hiring/promoting administrator who have your level of math expertise. Do be thankful. Many of us are in a very dark place.
Yes, and remember that the district is pushing all school to go to an 8 period day which adds another 35-40 students to that number. Some schools have already done it, for them, that number has moved to 280. Maybe everyone can understand why most schools have voted it down.
Not only that, but once one set of staffers have “voted” the change, all teachers are stuck with it for eons, even if they weren’t at the school to vote in the first place. The “District” can come back and say, “Well, you voted for it”. Fight it. They will still find a way to implement but at least, in the future, the staff can say, “WE never voted for this”.
Susan Mercer wrote: “Unfortunately, we have no contractual language to enforce CSR. Furthermore, due to the District’s budget cuts and reduction in revenue, there is little we can do to lower class size at this time.”
My question is why didn’t they have any contractual language when we’ve had csr for years & we’ve had over-crowding issues for years? One would think that our union would’ve covered this base. Why was it not covered? This has been a growing concern for years. I am hoping that they begin to write an amendment immediately. I am not putting the union down or anything. It is a legitimate question. I can’t even imagine that class size was not even thought about or written into the contract. WHY? Does anyone know?
Class size is written into the contract, however it has no teeth and therefore the district has chosen to ignore it for years. Grievances are filed and they go on for years and the district slides. CSR isn’t in the contract but it is so dependent upon changing state funding that I think it would be difficult (but probably not impossible) to negotiate.
What does class size matter?
I am a teacher.
Teachers argue that more kids means more work. The heart-felt argument is that more kids means less attention per student.
Has anyone proven that adding a few kids per class for a specific teacher have caused performance levels to drop on state tests?
If so, that would be a nice stastic to see and look at. Just, no one has ever shown it.
Our High School Science kids in Santa Ana are scoring off the charts for 9th grade… yet Santa Ana is cutting back Middle-school Science. Shouldn’t that be looked at!!??!?!?!?!??!
We have great 9th grade science teachers here. And 7-8th grade teachers as well.
How about this: the (one) year my ESL class only had 12 students, all but one of the students gained 2+ years on the District’s standardized tests, and a couple tested out of ESL. The one who didn’t gain? He missed 150 days of school. Hmmm.
The trouble with such large class sizes is the inability to do quality labs; or any labs. Not only can’t you monitor behavior but you don’t have the equipment since the science departments weren’t set up to deal with that many students. We won’t even get into the fact that 40 students are beyond the contractual for science. And all of this?….at one of the district’s fundamentals.
The only way I can do any individual tutoring is to ask the kids to show up at lunch. I give up most of my lunch daily because the issues are so easy to solve when you can help a kid one on one or in a small group. You can’t do that in one period with a class of 40 that needs to meet standards. Of course, the kids have to actually show up.
Your heart is in the right place, but it is the fact that teachers do volunteer, and do buy hundreds of dollars worth of supplies out of their own pocket that enables the “District” to force many of their obnoxious and dangerous procedures on to the rest of the sheep. hmmmm.
I’m so glad they’re adding students to each class. Its about time people actually start working…
You either have a wicked sense of humor or you are not a teacher.
TMARE, you need better info. about the 8 period day.
Do you realize that the number of the students in the school would stay the same no matter how long the day is. Simple math then dictates that you would see fewer students in each class if there were an extra period in the day. You would not have an extra 40 students. Get past that. It’s wrong.
Do you realize that in an 8 period day, you would only see half of your students on any given day. So instead of teaching the 240 students you have been complaining about on this blog for years, you would have only 120 in a day. Maybe you would feel less overwhelmed.
Last, your prep. time would be about the same. Instead of having a single prep. period every day, you would have a double prep. period every two days.
Actually, eight period block scheduling would most likely give a teacher 4 preps in 5 days, unless they did an 8 period day on Wednesday. My school was one that had a vote on an 8 period block and after very careful consideration and number crunching, it was overwhelmingly voted down. The poster above makes it sound great in the shortness of his paragraph, however our staff thoroughly investigated the matter. Additionally, if the 8 period block was passed, teachers would be required to waive a portion of their contracted hours.
It is not true that teachers would see fewer or even the same number of students. The only subjects that teachers would have fewer students are those teaching Language Arts and Math (the blocked classes). Social Studies, Science, Electives, PE (all single period classes) WOULD see 40 more students.
Where would these 40 students come from? Are you saying teachers would be laid off or transferred to other schools. Unless that is what you mean, if the number of students in the school stays the same and the students have an extra period in the day, then the class sizes would have to be smaller. Math doesn’t lie. So again, where are these extra 40 students coming from?
Every student now has 8 classes, not 7, that’s where they come from. No extra teacher hired, believe me, we asked.
So are you saying that students who would not otherwise take social studies will take it if the day is 8 periods instead of 7? I thought all middle school students took social studies regardless of the number of periods.
No, they all take social studies and will continue to do so. Some schools have cut it to one semester, along with science. They will have two periods of math instead of one and consequently every teacher that doesn’t teach a block (math and language arts) will have an additional class of students to teach (7 instead of 6, thus 40 more students).
I don’t know if you’re being intentionally obtuse or you really don’t get it. Do the math. If the number of the teachers is the same and the number of students in the school is the same, then adding an extra period to the day will not add more students to a teacher’s load. The same number of students will be spread out over seven periods instead of six. Class sizes will go down. 240 divided by six equals 40. 240 divided by 7 equals 34.2. You can’t add an additional 40 students to each social studies teacher if no teachers are going to be laid off and if all of the students are already taking social studies. How you refuse to or are unable to understand this is baffling!
You haven’t said it, but the only other thing I can think of that makes sense for what you are trying to say is that you are assuming that social studies teachers will continue to teach only six periods of social studies and will teach something else in addition if another period is added to the day. But if you would be continuing to teach only social studies, your class sizes would have to go down if there were an additional period. Class dismissed!!!!!
Ok, maybe you actually get it now. Yes, the teachers all teach an extra “elective”, at one site they are told to make it up themselves. Do you get it NOW?
And, at our site, the result of the 8 period day would have been the loss of one teacher (yes, we checked).
To add more information for you: We were asking in a small “negotiation” meeting what it would take for us to vote yes on the 8 period day. Our response was “a net gain of 0 students for each teacher” (meaning we would not exceed the 240 or so we have now). The district response was, “How about if we reduce each class by one student?” (which means a net gain of 33 students instead of 40). Our response was no and they responded that they couldn’t possibly do what we were asking. I would now ask you to do the math.
Why didn’t you say this to begin with. You made me guess at what you were trying to get at. I hope you’re more direct with your students.
I guess I assumed you were at a middle school and understood the situation a bit better (or you were just spouting the district bull). Sorry. They talk just like you until you actually get down to the particulars and they HAVE to tell the truth.
I guess MacArthur Fundamental isn’t interested in promoting education. They’ve actually banned technology at MacArthur Fundamental. There you are for progress! Oh, they haven’t actually *banned* it, but they’ve tied the hands of the staff with so much red tape that it might as well have been. No power points, no pictures, no videos, what’s next? There goes test scores, because that’s how much the new admin has tied the staff’s hands. And the new admin? All brand new people with little to no experience. What is SAUSD thinking! Not about their students.
I find it hard to believe that a school has red tape involved to display a power point that is standards based and a part of the curriculum.
You obviously do not have an “administrator” from the dark ages (or side). I know of one who even bans teachers from using more advanced forms of technology, like having a printer in or near their classroom.
Yeah, well believe it. Just goes to show you the district can and will screw with their highest performing middle school with inept admin.
Amen. You can add to that “administrators” who are actually on campus more than a couple of hours PER WEEK
Are you saying that test scores will go down because you have to fill out paperwork to show a video? I’m confused about this whole line of reasoning.
Anon, Don’t let this frustrate you. Send an e-message on web-mail to the principal that you’ll show an x-min video clip on whatever on –date. Then do it. Principals do get upset with the practice of spending several hrs of class time to show an entire movies, but are poor in communicating this to staff.
I have a question. Several teachers at my school site (intermediate level) have been approached about starting some type of prayer group for students held during the students’ lunch time. What are SAUSD’s guidelines and the legalities of such a group?
Is this a new district thing? It’s very scary. Doesn’t the administer understand the principle (as opposed to his position as PRINCIPAL) of the separation of church (meaning religious groups) and state (including public schools)? I know the Courts have OKed clubs w/ a religious subtext if it is student generated and student led, but I do believe that it is not appropriate for it to be paid for w/ school district funds or for it to be held during “school hours”. Can you fill in some information? and is this happening across the District?
I did a little internet research and I think I found my own answer to the question of teacher involvement in student prayer groups at lunch time.
From the way I’m reading this the answer is teacher involvement in student prayer groups at school is not allowed.
http://candst.tripod.com/jnt-sta.htm
4. Teachers and school administrators, when acting in those
capacities, are representatives of the state, and, in those
capacities, are themselves prohibited from encouraging or
soliciting student religious or anti-religious activity. Similarly,
when acting in their official capacities, teachers may not engage
in religious activities with their students. However, teachers may
engage in private religious activity in faculty lounges.
“See You at the Pole”
11. Student participation in before- or after-school events, such as
“see you at the pole,” is permissible. School officials, acting in
an official capacity, may neither discourage nor encourage
participation in such an event.
Equal Access Act
13. Student religious clubs in secondary schools must be permitted
to meet and to have equal access to campus media to announce
their meetings, if a school receives federal funds and permits any
student non-curricular club to meet during non-instructional time.
This is the command of the Equal Access Act. A non-curricular
club is any club not related directly to a subject taught or
soon-to-be taught in the school. Although schools have the right
to ban all non-curriculum clubs, they may not dodge the law’s
requirement by the expedient of declaring all clubs
curriculum-related. On the other hand, teachers may not actively
participate in club activities and “non-school persons” may not
control or regularly attend club meeting.
When I participated in a Boy Scout program, we used a classroom at a local school, but it was in the evening, and I definitely was not paid. Ditto for my involvement in a Catholic religious education class for children getting ready for First Communion. This was many, many moons ago and have I noticed that the religious ed class is no longer being held at a school.
Who IS this nutty administrator and didn’t s/he ever have to take a class in State Law?
Willard!!!
Ken Walker has run Club Fish, a bible-study club at Santa Ana High School for years. They meet at lunch. Nobody seems to have made a fuss about.
Is lunch really considered “non-curricular” time? Amazing.
Really? Are we now playing the word game? Non-curricular time? Non-duty time???
Doesn’t the term “contractual day” come into play here?
wow! Willard!!!!!! Why are we not surprised!!!!!! District!!!! What are you thinking!
Wow! A fundraiser is going on as I type for Willard at a church.
Yes, lunch is their free time and not instructional time and granted most of the students (and adults) at Willard are christian, but not all.
A few are of other religions. Are they being represented? I understand from the union that any other religious or atheist groups would need permission from the principal to have their own teacher led student lunch “club” and if denied what would SAUSD have to say about that?
There are actual good reasons for the separation of church and state.
When I was in public elementary school we were required to say the pledge, say the Lord’s Prayer (the Protestant version), and to sing Dixie.
Of course, it was an all white public school and if you went to any public facility there were water fountains with signs “For Whites Only”.
I guess we have not come very far.
Don’t know about the “Dixie” part but do remember the rest. As with so many other cultural issues, we’ve come a long way, baby just to be back in the 1950s and 60s. If the sheep go along with the program, we will all be “rammed” in to doing things that are certainly not correct or legal.
I guess they’ve tried pretty much everything at Willard, so now it’s up to God 🙂
That’s just scary.
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2010/11/o-c-register-publishes-sausd-salaries/
I know it’s scary and I hope you realize that I wasn’t being serious.
I got it. I didn’t think you were being serious. I didn’t think any of this was for real when I first heard it.
Regarding Cole’s satellite church (Willard):
There is much here for the district to be concerned with. I hope they can get Cole to back off before an outside lawsuit surfaces. We all know Cole is climbing the district corporate ladder so maybe the district could advise him to curtail his religious activities on campus so as not to derail his climb. Staff bulletin from Cole always begins with an opening paragraph describing his recent church activities. End of the year breakfast sponsored by church group. Assembly of gospel music provided by church. Principal now having staff members go around and recruit someone to lead “Jaguars for Jesus” group during lunch hour. Fundraiser conducted over the weekend for Willard by a church.There is much more than meets the eye here.
Hope the district is listening before this goes public.
SAUSD and their policies regarding the issue of separation of church and state are the real issues. I am relatively sure the district is aware of the goings on at Willard and several other schools in Santa Ana.
If SAUSD wants to deal with the ACLU they will get their wish eventually and hopefully, if this matter isn’t addressed by SAUSD directly, sooner than later.
Goodness! Where is the ACLU when you really need them?
I’d like to say, “you’ve got to be kidding” however this isn’t something anyone would make up. Scary stuff but scarier still is the possibility that the administrator actually has a chance to rise even higher in the (corrupt?) school system
I don’t think this is par for course in SA. I think it is par for the course for this particular principal. And you are right, the district better start listening.
So far I have been told that SAHS
( Mr.Oldschool Posted November 5, 2010 at 10:11 PM
Ken Walker has run Club Fish, a bible-study club at Santa Ana High School for years. They meet at lunch. Nobody seems to have made a fuss about) and MacArthur have similar things happening. I’m not at either school so it’s just hearsay at my end.
I think this type of thing goes on at high schools all over the county and has for years. I remember a similar group when I was in high school. I haven’t heard of this type of thing at any intermediate sites except Willard. I think the kids are way too young for this at the intermediate level. It is also dangerous to mix in something that a kid could think is the “popular” thing to do when it may interfere with their own religious education at home. I wouldn’t want to be the principal who had to deal with a irate parent of a student who was learning religious ideas at lunch while at school. I think it is ok when the club is student run and a teacher allows them to meet in their room but I don’t think teachers are or should be allowed to start a religious club.
There is a big difference between a teacher quietly leading a group at lunch that he has done for years. At Willard there is no teacher stepping up to the plate so Cole has his chosen ones going around the school recruiting (during the instructional day) a teacher. . He’s also making announcements to the students for “Jaguars for Jesus” during the instructional day. Clearly a conflict.
Actually, I should say that I don’t think it’s ok but I think it is legal.
http://www.afa.net/FAQ.aspx?id=2147484805
The Supreme Court has ruled that any government-sponsored prayer in schools is unconstitutional because it interprets such activity as endorsement of religion.
Only student-led, student-initiated prayer in the public school is permissible.
Teachers cannot lead or engage in the religious activities of public school students.
The Supreme Court has ruled that any government-sponsored prayer in schools is unconstitutional because it interprets such activity as endorsement of religion. Only student-led, student-initiated prayer in the public school is permissible. Teachers cannot lead or engage in the religious activities of public school students.
http://www.afa.net/FAQ.aspx?id=2147484805
So the question is, “Who is going to do something about the situation at Willard?”. Are there any teachers over there who are concerned or are they too intimidated to say anything. I fail to see why this is being tolerated, I know with certainty that it wouldn’t be tolerated at my school site.
Not just at Willard. What is SAUSD’s policy regarding teacher led student prayer groups and religious affiliated groups and their contributions to schools??
Today, Tuesday, November 16, 2010, at 11:10 a.m. I was walking past one of the student PE workout rooms.
Written on the whiteboard was the following:
John 3:16 “God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son so that whoever believes in him may not be lost, but have eternal life”
The following words were underlined: loved, gave, believes, lost, and have eternal.
These words had capital G’s written above them: loved and gave.
These words had the word “us” written above them: believes and have eternal life.
The word “Son” was circled.