Once again we have had to set up a new SAUSD corruption thread as the last one started to run slow with all the comments on it.
Our schools are in crisis today – not just here in Santa Ana but all over the state. The only thing we know for sure is that we are going to take more budget hits.
I am amazed that the SAUSD hired back all their laid off administrators. How crazy is that? Class sizes are growing, good teachers are laid off, and the union, as usual, is asleep at the wheel.
We will continue to reason through all this here at the Orange Juice blog! We can but hope for the best…
Trex,
Oh please get over it! You have some really good ideas,and then you just ruin your credibility when you “lose it”. We cannot undermine our contractual agreement and let the district get away with imposing a contractual issue. It will serve everyone (including you) best in the long run if you have some respect for our contract whether you agree with it or not. The district obviously was in the wrong, THAT IS WHY THE ARBITRATOR SIDED WITH THE UNION! Do you think the district would have hired back riffed teachers had they won? Be realistic, you know they would not have used the money to hire back teachers!!! If you don’t know this, you don’t know much about SAUSD.
By the way, I have no intention of making up those missed days, and neither do a lot of teachers at my school. The ones that are making up the days will be doing so to make house payments etc. So I just suggest that you save that money (if you make up the fulough days) – for a rainy day. There will be plenty of rainy days coming up. I have seen my share of them in 23 years with Santa Ana – and that was in the “economic good times”!
IN SHORT, if you want people to take what you say seriously, then CHILL and think before you write on this blog!!!
No one is going to shove the buy back money into your pocket trex.
I would advise anyone who believes that the district should keep the money that the state gave them for these three days to not serve the days and the district will get to keep the money. Problem solved. I could easily see the district cutting these days if the state didn’t fund them but the fact is, the state did.
You don’t really get the other side of the issue tmare. You want to look at this very narrowly as being only about the sanctity of the contract. Fine. You’re entitled. Others may want to look at it more broadly. They believe that teachers look bad when they try to pry money for no useful purpose out of the district during these times of limited school funding when the money could be much better spent elsewhere. Whether it is for laid off teachers, more support in the classroom, librarians, counselors, computer techs., or whatever, just about any use of the money would be better than the buy back days. Teachers have complained about them forever. Not one teacher has come on here and said that the buy back days improved her teaching performance. They don’t. Even if the union is entitled to have that money and even if the district technically violated the contract this one time, many believe it would have been a better decision to let the district spend the money elsewhere. You’re going to have to agree to disagree on this. That’s the best you’ll do. You’re not going to convince those of us who believe the union shouldn’t have pursued this that you and the union are right.
Where do you think the district was going to spend the funds given to them for this purpose? Were they going to restore jobs? Do you think that if they were given license to do this that they may have considered that they could also do much worse? I would have to completely agree that the majority of this time was useless. However, there also used to be a time when teachers were given at least a few hours to prepare their classrooms for a new school year. With the elimination of these days, we had one hour to prepare our classrooms for an entire school year this year. We had meetings for all but one hour during the one day we arrived prior to this year. At least in the last few years our administrators were able to give us a few hours each day during the buyback days. I’d still like to know what happened to the days when we used to get time to prepare for the school year before the buyback days were instituted. Yes, I guess we should just agree to disagree. Since you believe that the district will use the money wisely somewhere else, don’t do the days. I know many people who probably won’t.
This is a ridiculous conversation. tmare has obviously been teaching in SA for a few years and realizes that the district will not spend the money wisely and probably not on the students or student achievement. They have not put students first for many, many years. Yes it is sad, but also sadly true. Maybe when ANONYMOUS wakes up and looks around, she’ll realize what is actually is happening instead of what he/she wants to happen. Agreeing to “disagree”, in this case, just allows the lies to continue for yet another decade! If the contract is violated and the union allows it, then it is as useless as the paper it is written on. Which in turn, makes unions a ridiculous waste of time and money. If you don’t want to be in a union, then get into a non-union or private school. There are plenty around.
So what I’m hearing is that as long as there is no confidence that the district would use the funds for any purpose that would benefit students, the teachers may as well grab the money for themselves. How altruistic that makes public servants seem. Or why not grab the money out of bitterness to make up for duty days that we no longer have thanks to the fact that your union negotiated them away a long time ago. News Flash: Buy back days were never intended for classroom preparation. Graduate you’re the one who should leave. The status quo obviously is not doing the public schools any good. Most of the public believe that the teachers to kick out are ones like you who appear to put unions and union contracts ahead of students. Teachers who put the students’ interests ahead of their own greed are the ones who should stay. Why don’t we agree to disagree about that as well. Teachers who are not in the union are tired of hacks telling them to leave. This is projection. The ones who really need to leave are teachers like you who feel entitled to public money they haven’t earned. That would be one giant step toward turning public schools around.
After SUSAN “won” this battle I’m convinced that we will not see any new teachers in SAUSD for years to come…multiply $600 (under estimate) x 2000 teachers (under estimate) = $1.2 million dollars into the hands of teachers who are still hired . I’m sorry to those 150 teachers who are still gone because your colleagues obviously don’t care about you enough.
Yes we kept our contract (blah, blah, blah), but look at the waste! how about fighting to allocate that money to reduce class size by hiring more teachers. NO lets put it in the pockets of the teachers AGAIN! Jesus people, you really don’t care about anyone else but yourselves. This pretty much proves it! I hate what Obama’s doing to education but I hope he tears up the unions because this PROTECTION we have has undermined common sense and decency.
Another teacher, trex,
Do you have any comprehension skills? I am not taking the buy back days! But I do not think you should “monsterize” any teacher that does. Don’t worry, I will be gone soon. And I hope you get your wishes about unions. Then I can sit back and read this blog and laugh as you see your hard earned education, training, and skills be reduced to the value of “nothing”. You don’t seem to understand that people like to be compensated for hard work and education!!! Just watch and see how many hard working teachers we get after the union is gone (by the way, “ANOTHER”, every teacher in our district is in the union). And check out what happens to student education. Sure, some kids will thrive (those with parents who value education). Others will be in serious trouble. Every other field does it, why should teaching be an exception? This economy will improve someday! Teacher’s situations won’t without the help of unions. This is a very serious problem which you don’t seem to be able to grasp. Politicians and most administrators ARE IN THIS FOR THE MONEY and their success depends (at least for now) on things like “student scores”. Most aren’t terribly interested in their education, just what is politically and expedient for their careers – right now, that happens to be student SCORES. Wake up!
My apologies to any intelligent reader who happens to “get it”. I’m not wishing the same on you.
Graduate your last entry is a little hard to follow, but I will say from what I understand of it, and the problem is your writing, not any comprehension on my part, that it is not my interest to monsterize any individual teacher. The problem is a union leadership that is out of touch with broader problems and makes teachers look bad to the public. I hold teachers to a higher calling than truck drivers or restaurant workers. We should be in this for our students first, and then the money. If we have to have a union, it should fight for making education better, not for lining our pockets unnecessarily. I’m sorry that you are so insecure as to believe that teachers will not be valued unless they are backed by a union. I think the unions are what have created most of the problems we find in education today. Sure politicians have had their part and our district certainly should be a better steward of the limited public finds it gets. But California would be a better place without teacher unions. Have you heard of fee payers, by the way, who are bound by what the union negotiates, but do not contribute money to the union.
Please don’t lecture me or insult my intelligence. If we ever went head to head in any kind of intelligence test, I would wipe the floor with you. And watch out what you wish for. If you really wish for what you say, you’ll be taking my order at a McDonalsds drive through after you retire because the unions are going to allow CALSTRS to go bankrupt before they make concessions. With attitudes like yours and the union leadership’s, the public will probably let it fail.
I had no trouble following what GG18 had to say. I did have trouble following #1062. If “Another Teacher” doesn’t have a comprehension problem, perhaps it’s a reality problem. Oh right, you won’t see that because you are in denial. I certainly hope GG18 doesn’t waste any more of their time and knowledge trying to debate with Another Teacher. It reminds me of a saying… ” If you can’t dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullsh**. Starting to stink around here “another Teacher”
Yes, the union won. What they won were furlough days for next year to pay for these 3 buy-back days. So, more money this year and much less next.
OMG! I think I’ll take “Another Teacher’s” advice and not waste anymore time on trying to have a
BATTLE OF WITS WITH AN UNARMED PERSON!
Glad to know you could wipe the floor with me on an intelligence test. Oh, yeah, I forgot, most really intelligent people do BRAG about their intelligence. NOT!
Some day you will understand what is going on, not that I care. Additionally, don’t worry about me. I am okay financially without the pension, but I am not worried in the least that I won’t get it. Most “intelligent” people invest and make other financial decisions rather than planning their life around a state pension. I am, however concerned about new teachers going into the profession if the unions are broken.
And by the way, 25 year vet, if we had lost the arbitration, I am quite certain the buy-back days would not have been thrown into our salaries for next year.
When some “intelligent”, problem solving conversation starts happening here again, I’ll be back!
And again MY APOLOGIES to those who do blog and have offered up some great ideas and news. You are just outnumbered now by the those that don’t. Is that polite enough for you “Another Teacher”. NO NEED TO REPLY
Correction to Post 1065
meant to say “take SA Teacher’s advice”.
Also in re: to Post 1062, Another Teacher
very foolish comment – “to hold teachers to a higher standard than truck drivers or restaurant workers”. Kind of shows your CHARACTER, as well as your ARROGANCE!
ADIOS!
Bye. Don’t slam the trailer door on your way out.
By the way, thanks for explaining that most intelligent people don’t brag about their intelligence. Now I understand why you call yourself graduate grade 18. You want to make it clear that you’re not intelligent.
If you had read any of Grad’s posts you would know that the 18 years referred to the hard-earned education that all teachers have earned. It was posted in response to some complaining that teachers were overpaid. It was pointed out that the years of education were commensurate (at the very least) with teacher pay. Sorry to see you go, Grad, but can’t say as I blame you. You might reconsider and just ignore some of these posts – as we have done in the past.
Interesting! For A Change! Hope it works for them!
http://www.ocregister.com/news/teachers-244536-school-strike.html
I guess we’re slamming people who live in trailers now? This needs to stop! C’mon let’s show some respect or there will be no one left on this blog!
I thought this thread is about exposing and bringing to light corruption by District officials. Let’s stop bashing colleagues.
Boo Hoo! You people sound petty. No wonder our “profession” is in the tank. Where is the vision and the leadership? Let’s stop trying to cut off our nose to spite our face.
The Union is all we got protecting us from the cold clutches of the District.
Some of you are not happy with this arrangement and you are actively out to destroy it and for that matter, public education as we know it. All is not perfect, true. And there is much room for improvement.
But I ask, if the house is burning, what are we to do, try to put out the fire or add more fuel to it?
Now as Wilson teacher so succinctly put it, let’s stop bashing each other and go back to bashing the district!
Thanks Wilson Teacher. You are absolutely correct as to the purpose of this blog. I hope GG18 will continue to post , but like anonymous stated, I understand why s(he) wouldn’t want to. I grow less and less amused by idiots like ” Another Teacher” Frankly, it’s becoming a bore…….
1074 – I see from your post that you agree that it’s time to stop bashing other teachers. So why did you call me an idiot? I hope you at least practice what you preach in front of your students if not on this blog. I agree with Wilson teacher as well. I stated several posts ago that we need to agree to disagree about the buy back days and I thought that would be the end of it, but then I got attacked. So I attacked back. Other than maybe union leadership, I did not intitiate any attack. Now it occurs to me that behind all these names, I may be dealing with the union leadership on this blog. But I guess it’s over now. I’m not going to agree with grad 18 and others about the buy back days, but I respect their right to have an opinion. I wish they also would have respected mine. It seems to me that if you don’t agree with the union, certain posters on this blog feel free to question your intelligence, call you an idiot, or whatever. That’s sad on so many levels. Why be afraid of someone else’s viewpoint? How do you develop critical thinking in your students if your response to somebody who disagrees with you is to question his or her intelligence or resort to name calling? I don’t know.
Interesting video: http://www.teachersunionexposed.com
Villa voted as well ,only 14 voted for the 8 period and 22 against it.
MacArthur will not be voting and Willard will be voting on Wednesday. I was told that it will be defeated with only about 5 teachers who will support it.
Willard already voted and It didn’t pass. 27 teachers supported it and 22 against.
I’m sorry, I meant that Spurgeon would be voting on Wednesday and they expect it to go down by a very large margin.
Hey Another Teacher, your video link proves that you are an idiot right wing ideologue.
And your post proves your a liberal idiot hack.
#1081 & #1082,
“Colleagues are those explicitly united in a common purpose and respecting each other’s abilities to work toward that purpose.”
Again, the purpose of this blog is to expose District malfeasance, not to berate each other. Please either start a separate blog devoted to “slamming” fellow teachers, or STOP defaming one another.
I second Wilson Teacher. Additionally – Please, please use another blog for your comments. I think many of us have expressed that wish. Show some consideration and take the bashing elsewhere. There are plenty of blogs around. You have already run-off some bloggers with interesting ideas and who like to problem solve. Also some of your “sites” are not relevant or interesting. I’ve checked them out.
I’m willing to let Wilson Teacher have the last word, but I will attack back if I get attacked again. 1084 — I don’t know if you’re addressing me because you refer to sites and I only put up one. I do consider it interesting and relevant. Look at what is happening in Capistrano, L.A., and even Irvine going to 175 days. Change is going to come to SA Unified as well. My feeling is that if the union does not work with the district, it will be bulldozed into irrelevancy by California’s bleak financial situation and tide of public opinion that is turning against teachers’ unions. Even Obama and Arne Duncan, who a “right wind ideologue” such as myself certainly would not have supported, have not been friendly to teachers’ unions. It is not realistic in today’s political and economic climate to think that we can pursue buy back days, ignore pressure from above to implement block scheduling in junior high, and continue business as usual without having change imposed upon us. As one wise poster mentioned above, the buy back days that are restored this year will probably just manifest themselves as furlough days next year. What some people don’t seem to get is that the turnip has been squeezed dry. I don’t like it. Nobody likes it. But it’s where we are. To serve teachers and preserve public education as we know it for students, unions are going to have to find some way to problem solve without demanding more money at every step.
I just reread my post: “right wind” instead of “right wing.” A lot of you guys probably will think it was Freudian. LOL.
The sanctity of a contract is hugely important to anyone who enters into one. Now the contract can be changed – there are rules for that. But violating a contract is not sanctioned by anyone, hence, the arbitrator’s ruling, and every court system in the U.S. That’s what this argument is about and the name calling was started by two people and I think you know who you are (a and t). Please stop A. No one is really disagreeing with you except in regards to the contract!!! So please, let’s get back to facts as relating to what is actually happening versus what we want to happen (unless it is a positive comment). Thank you.
‘
Anonymous, unless you’ve changed your name from grad 18 or something else, you haven’t been involved in this. But it seems to me you’re trying to stir the pot now. Why don’t you just let the parties who have been involved in this drop it. For your information, I never started any name calling. I never used the word idiot or questioned anybody’s intelligence until those things were said and done to me. You would see that if you read the posts fairly and not just to take a side with the people whose viewpoints you share. As far as the contract is concerned, yes, I get your point. I have two responses. 1. The arbitrator didn’t necessarily get it right. He or she is only human. I’m sure you can think of cases in which judges or arbitrators have made mistakes. 2. Whether the arbitrator was right or not, it was an insult to laid off teachers for union leadership to pursue this. Not every wrong needs a remedy. We tell this to our students all the time. With 100 laid off teachers out there already and 50 more threatened this year, I saw it as a slap in the face to them when the union leadership pursued this. No matter what the district would have used the buy back money for, the situation of the laid off teachers was probably made worse because the district now has less money than it thought would. It couldn’t have been made any better for them. But they are or were members of the union too, and should have been considered. That’s what I think. So I’m back again to agreeing to disagree, which for some reason was so offensive to so many.
You are right. I have been mostly just a reader until now, but I am an SAUSD teacher, and I have read this blog for information for a long time. I gave you my opinion that’s all. Obviously you have to have the last word, so I’m sure we’ll hear from you again, but not from me. I think I’ll just go back to reading. I hope that the blog goes back to being more informative. That’s why everyone that I know reads it.
Anonymous message is paramount and disregard it at your own peril. Your contract is your contract and if the district could disregard it without discussion then why have it in the first place. While some may not care with one violation what about another and another.
They took your buy back and the 1.5% of your pay at the beginning of the school year. What took the union so long to respond? The only reason they took action was because a few teachers making it an issue. This wasn’t the first time they violated your contract. They created an MOU that took an hour of your teaching instruction every Wednesday without a vote last year and this year. Some teachers may be for, or ambivalent about it, but it was a contract violation nonetheless which led to the embolden district to your buy back days. They may even want your school site money. Oh that’s right, they already helped themselves to it. No union. What’s next you may like even less but by then, the collusion is in.
Just a few things. It did not take the union long to respond to the buyback days contract issue. They responded immediately and the result was very fast. Anyone who knows anything about the grievance process knows that the process usually takes years, it’s a horrible process. The buyback days issue was put on a fast track, getting a resolution within the same school year is virtually unheard of. I would also hope that teachers who do not have personal knowledge and experience with the eight period day issue would hold their tongues when making judgements about things they don’t understand. The district has provided absolutely no proof that the implementation of an eight period day actually benefits students. Teachers have researched the issue extensively and have come to the conclusion that it is not necessary. The district’s motives are not pure on this issue. They want each teacher to either agree to teach an extra class (with reduced prep time) or agree to teach an extra elective with no curriculum. Personally, my 240 students are far more than I can effectively manage and adding another 40 is unimaginable. Please refrain from making judgements when you don’t understand the issues. I’d be happy to explain those issues in further detail if anyone is interested.
Buy back days = $600 per teacher (under estimate) multiplied by 2000 teacher (another under estimate) = $1.2 million spent on teachers who are currently hired (another underestimate)!
Yea the union really cares about the laid off teachers. They’ll give us back our buy back money but will anyone REALLY work any harder??
There are specific timelines for the grievance process. If not resolved after the three steps, it will go to arbitration where there is no agreed time limit. I couldn’t find in the contract that there is a fast track. Apparently the teachers complaint is not a priority. Having a grievance that takes years is reprehensible, where justice delayed is justice denied. Perhaps in your next contract it could be agreed that all complaints would be resolved within the school year. I wonder why the union didn’t think of that.
Once a grievance is handed over to arbitration there are many parties that have to come together. Currently, there is a backlog and there aren’t enough mediators or judges to handle the demand and this is why so many grievances take such a long time. These are not people within the district or the union that are assigned to handle these things and neither the district nor the union has control over the timeline. It was my understanding that some special priority was placed on this case from outside of the Santa Ana union due to the nature of the grievance. I suppose I could find out more of the particulars but I was told that someone from the outside chose to put priority on this one. The district is also dragging their heels on this right now and refusing to accept the fact that the decision was binding. I suspect they are trying to stall so that the days that must be served will have such a short time frame that many teachers will choose not to serve them. Personally, I have been extremely frustrated with the long wait for grievances to be resolved, the class size grievance for intermediate schools still hasn’t been resolved and it’s close to three years now. The summer school pay grievance doesn’t even have a decision yet, again, it’s three years old. The district stalls and then the union waits. This has been my experience and while I don’t know all of the laws and rules, I’ve seen it firsthand.
Tmare, although you think others are misinformed, you also have some misinformation about the block schedule. Total teaching time and total amount of prep. time would not change. It would just be spread out differently. Instead of having prep. time every day, you would have a double period of prep. time every two days. This might appeal to some teachers. It would be interesting if you would post a link to the teacher research you talk about. It might be helpful to teachers who apparently will be voting on this. You and they may also want to take a look at the presentation about the block schedule that was given to the school board on March 23, 2010. It might clear up some misconceptions. If teachers are voting on this, they should have the best information possible. You might consider holding your tongue as well until you understand the issue better. Nobody would want teachers who are voting this week to rely on half truths or fear mongering.
I have read the board presentation and there are so many lies in that presentation that it is difficult to even count them. Total teaching time does not change, prep time definitely does and anyone who tells you that it doesn’t simply does not understand math. There is absolutely no way that you can add an extra period to the school day without adding minutes to the day and not end up with less prep time and more students. Total caseload for most teachers increases by one entire class and if you aren’t given an extra class, you are given one more prep. Teachers at one site were told to “teach whatever you want” during their extra class, how does that help? All of this would be fine if there were any substantial proof that this results in any gains in student achievement. We have been researching this for years and have visited a school site and listened to their teachers. There are benefits but from everything we have read, observed and calculated, the negatives far outweigh the positives at our site. I guess the biggest issue is that it has to be a site decision and at certain schools in our district it might make sense depending upon the goals of the site and the areas they need to focus. I would just urge the district to stop trying to place a one size fits all solution to every school and try to allow each site, their teachers, parents administrators, and students come up with creative solutions to meet their needs. If a school thinks that it will work for them, let them try. Keep in mind that we have one school that started this way and it hasn’t stopped them from becoming a Program Improvement school and they are still seeing lower scores than a school with only one period of math (which has been the reported reason for the proposed change).
Tmare, perhaps I could add some information. The grievance went to PERB. When it was apparent that a resolution could not be achieved, they must have been told to go to arbitration. That must have been the outside party of which you referred. It would be nice if the union gave the details. Do you remember the source of your information as to the reason not enough mediators & judges? I believe the reason is much more simpler. It cost money to have a case heard and neither the union nor the district has an incentive to pay it. I think the amount is about $6500. You sound much too smart to believe that Santa Ana has so many complaints that went to grievance that would take a week at the most to hear, that there is a 3 year backlog? Does that make sense to anyone. Both the district and the union has control over the timeline. If not them, then who? Sounds like a runaround to me. CTA should be involved in your case and if they won’t maybe you should take it to PERB yourself if it qualifies. The sad fact is that just one year of your forced union dues would pay for your case.
Outsider, you sound very knowledgeable and I am only trying to relay some information. In no way am I trying to say that I am an expert on any of this. I know that every step of the grievance process has a timeline in which the district needs to respond. Many of the steps require 30-60 days in which the district will use up all time if they even respond at all. This has been pretty standard in SAUSD. Even when a grievance that goes to arbitration is won by the union, the negotiations as to the remedy takes an incredibly long period of time. The decision regarding the class size grievance was already made yet the remedy has yet to be agreed upon. The entire negotiating process seems to start over once the district loses, in this case their proposal to remedy things was not acceptable to the intermediate teachers. I will investigate the exact reasons why the summer school grievance has been going on for three years now. You are right, there is some major runaround going on. BTW, this isn’t my case, it’s a case for all teachers who taught summer school for two years, the district continued the grieved practice for a second year and of course, there isn’t a summer school program anymore unless you count Think Together as a summer school program (otherwise, I’m sure it would have continued last year). The major problem with our contract is that it has never spelled out consequences in any way that has meaning to those at the district and consequently, they feel that they have permission to do as they please.
I just applied for Capo Unified substitute teaching position…they’re paying a lot! You know what I hope, that they fire all those teachers in that district for going on strike! There are plenty of qualified teacher around orange county that would gladly take their positions for half the pay of most of those teachers. I was paid $50,000 last year and I would gladly work for $35,000. I would happily replace a teacher who makes $80,000. That district could save themselves $9 million if they replaced just 200 of those teachers who make $80,000 for teachers who will work for $35,000.
1099~
A desperate teacher… A corrupt school districts dream come true!
1099
Have you ever been in a real teachers strike? I have. It wasn’t a one day event like the last teacher strike in the county and I wasn’t a teacher.
To begin with most of the picketers are teachers from that school. They recognize every classified employee and teacher that has chosen not to strike. They also know who the “scabs” are simply because they don’t recognize them.
The first day or two you may just get yelled at as you drive into the parking lot. Cops or security will try to keep the driveways clear, but generally they will be there to video and try to keep things running as smoothly as they can.
If the strike begins to run on for a length of time those same picketers will become frustrated and more aggressive. Expect your car to “accidently” be hit with a sign, kicked or punched. In short, I wouldn’t drive my best car if I were you.
Students will begin to join the ranks, walk out of class or do whatever they feel they can get away with because they love their “real” teacher. At some point night vandalism to the schools will begin. Security guards unfamiliar with the schools will be easily bypassed.
I can understand your need to make a living but you should know the potential you are walking into. I’ve seen it.
Anonplus knows what she/he is talking about. If the Capo teachers are as fired up as they sound on the news, the situation could prove volatile. Although it seems as though both sides want to avert a strike according to recent overtures:
http://capistranoinsider.typepad.com/beyond_the_blackboard/