What a day. It looks like the OJ3 is no more. Thomas Gordon got thrown off the EPIC/Gang Commission. I then quit the Santa Ana Housing & Redevelopment Commission. Then Sean Mill came back from vacation with a vengeance!
Our friends at the O.C. Weekly noticed, as Gustavo Arellano wrote the following on their Navel Gazing Blog:
The great telenovela that is the Orange Juice! blog (the Weekly’s Best Blog for 2007) continues. A week after the SanTana city council booted Juicer Thomas Gordon from a gang commission, and colleagues Art Pedroza and Luis Rodriguez resigned in protest, longtime SanTana activist Sean Mill returned today from a Mexico vacation to blast the blog that gives him a home–namely, Orange Juice. In fairness, Mill was merely reacting to Pedroza’s earlier post wondering out loud if he should boot Mill since councilman Sal Tinajero (whom Mill supports) was the man behind Gordon’s ouster. The comments are already flying between Mill, Pedroza, Gordon, and others (how long before Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies takes effect?) and even drew in poor ol’ Matt “Jubal” Cunningham, the proprietor of OC Blog.
Hey, Juicers: love the back-and-forth for purely schaudenfreude reasons, but please don’t let your blog disintegrate into the petty bickering that nearly ruined this paper. Eyes on the prize, amigos: the toppling of el caudillo Pudillo.
Don’t worry Gustavo! We won’t take our eye off the ball. And no, I won’t be dismissing Sean from this blog. His stories are amongst our most popular posts. And Sean has done a good job uncovering all kinds of graft and corruption in Santa Ana.
But Sean is also a confidante of a guy I have come to abhor – Sal Tinajero. Therefore we won’t be restoring Sean’s administrative powers. Unfortunately, the blog software we use allows bloggers with full administrative powers to delete this blog. As loyal as Sean is to Sal, I would not put it past Sal to ask him to destroy our blog. I cannot allow that to happen, under any circumstances.
The reason Sean is so loyal to Sal, is that Sal put him on the Santa Ana Planning Commission. I realized very quickly this year that you cannot affect much change as a commissioner. However, this blog has been leading the revolution in Santa Ana for some time now. True power comes from our keyboards, not from city commissions.
It is obvious that Sal and his fellow Council members are not interested in advancing good government. Santa Ana Mayor Miguel Pulido has compromised them all, except for Councilwoman Michele Martinez.
I continue to respect and admire Martinez because she continues to advance ideas that are all about good, open government. Is she perfect? No. But who is? She at least can say she has opposed Pulido and his cabal on more than one occasion. Sal cannot say that. At all.
Sean also made the allegation that we are deleting posts in order to make Martinez look good. To be honest, we have deleted a lot of posts that have nothing to do with the stories they are posted on. Someone keeps trying to post that Michele is a drug dealer. It is interesting that those anon posts stopped when Sean went on vacation. We will keep deleting them. They add nothing to the Orange Juice mix.
As for Sal, he has a lot of criticism coming his way. And he deserves it. He is a sell-out. He worships power, not change. If Sean wants to promote him, he is welcome to do so. But our readers can see through that B.S. quite well. Sal has no friends left in Santa Ana, except for Sean.
We will keep on fanning the flames of revolution in Santa Ana. And we will keep on shining a bright light on bad politicians all over Orange County. That’s what we do best here at the Orange Juice.
I can only hope that Sean will eventually wake up and realize that he is backing the wrong Council Member. Martinez is the only one who stands for the people. Sal is for Sal, and that will never, ever change.
One last note, many people have been asking Sean where he stands regarding Measure D. How about it Sean? Do you support Measure D? Why are you afraid to say where you stand? Our readers deserve to know where you stand. Please don’t keep them in the dark!
You all are like a buncha teenaged girls, friends one minute enemies the next. And here goes Art, going off on another one of Art’s “friends” and throwing up all over here at the OJ. lol. I dont have much love for sean but good gawd you did not even give the guy a chance to explain himself and turned on him like a pack of wolves. How many is that in the past 3 months Art?
Bottom line, what Sal did was classless and BS HOWEVER, he did have every right to do it. I doubt that Sean was “in on it”.
Art said:
“blog software we use allows bloggers with full administrative powers to delete this blog”
Wow..that’s really interesting…so are you saying that one blogger could take out the whole kit and kaboodle? scary…just like the president…one of you has to keep the “football” with them at all times…so are we in a Cold War now with you and Sean and you don’t want him to get the means to take you out? Is that it? Why don’t you develop a code that would take at least two people to wipe the blog out of cyber space? I can’t see Sean doing that…
Poster 2,
I wish we could. The software does not allow that.
Flowerszzz,
I did not go off on anyone. But Sal certainly went off on Thomas. Sean says he did not know about it in advance. But he did tell me and Thomas, weeks ago, that Pulido and his cabal were coming after us in December. So he did know that this was going to happen.
Miguel Pulido always finds a way to win by compromising his enemies. Just look at what has happened on the City Council this year. They are all in lockstep. Only Michele Martinez is offering any kind of resistance.
I really don’t expect you to figure any of this out. You don’t know enough to make any such judgments. Why you felt compelled to comment is beyond me.
Give me a break, the OJ3 never was. You folks showed your true colors when you chose to attack me in response to something I had nothing to do with. Is that what you call loyalty?
Members of this blog have gone around town spreading lies about me regarding the Manning Homes project. Is that what you call loyalty?
Members of this blog and members of your so-called “revolutionary” movement have continually called for my removal from the Planning Commission either in private or in public. Is that what you call loyalty?
The claims that my administrative powers were removed because you fear my deleting this blog are ridiculous and you know it. If you think that I would do that why would you keep me on “your” blog?
The reason my administrative powers were removed is because you want to control the comments posted. You will delete and have deleted posts critical of those you support. I would and have approved them. I did so because I believe that this blog should be fair to all sides. You clearly have no sense of fairness.
Your comment, “we have deleted a lot of posts that have nothing to do with the stories they are posted on”, is only partially true. If the comment attacks Sal you have allowed it whether it is relevant or not.
As I have said previously, I have no plans of quitting this blog. You and your cohorts, many of whom are bigots and longtime supporters of the machine, can continue to portray yourselves as the leaders of the “revolution”. All anyone has to do is look at the history of most of you to see that you have continually sided with those that sided against the people.
From Ted Moreno to Nativo Lopez you sided with Pulido. I did not.
Lupe Moreno and Rosie Avila were your candidates. Not mine.
You and the other so-called “revolutionaries” have a track record of being against the people.
I will use my position on this blog to expose the truth to those that care to know it. I will not use it to prop myself up as some sort of Che Guevara who is leading a so-called “revolution” based on lies and mistruths.
I will also use this blog as a platform to counter your one-sided biased approach. I will be the one voice that is willing to not act like a poor man’s version of OC Blog.
“I did so because I believe that this blog should be fair to all sides. You clearly have no sense of fairness.”
What a load of crap Sean.
You personally have solicit murder at this blog.
You can ignore the truth but I have started public process to remove OJ4 by submitting petition to the council. I have also stated that it will be you who will finish a job for me.
Now you can ad to it your crapola or delete it but you too are finished. Sal will drop you like a led ball soon.
Criticism directed towards council members is done on a regular basis here at the OJ. The criticisms are generally associated with political positions and the nature of the council’s voting on agenda items, relative to Santa Ana politics.
Many respond by giving personal opinions to explain actions taken by the public servants they support. I believe it is fair to pose questions and criticisms in this medium and post the responses to the criticisms.
If an individual supports a public servant that is being challenged the response should be an explanation and insight as to the nature of the action taken. The response should not be a personal attack towards the person presenting the question.
Many people simply disagree with many council member’s resent actions during resent council meetings.If there is a good insightful explanation ,share it. Personal attacks and discussing past political histories and affiliations is not for good blogging.
The OJ bloggers were more or less harmonious when Tinajero’s politics was not an issue amongst the bloggers. I personaly do not agree with the recent actions taken by all the council, save Martinez. I disagree with the removal of Mr Gordon from the EPIC commission. I support all council meetings be televised. I do not support Measure D and will actively work to defeat it. Make your opinion known if it is ask for.
Civil arguments back and forth on issues would be healthy for the OJ. Give explanations for your support . Don’t attack those that seek the explanation.
The reason I “chose” to comment is because you are constantly airing your dirty laundry, here. You did the same stuff here not to long ago against Ryan. It is quite comical and sad at the same time. But hey, who cares about friendships….you get more reasers this way -eh?
flowerszzz,
Reasers? Have you been taking English classes from Trung Nguyen? LOL.
Ryan and I came to an understanding after that episode. He is now starting anew in San Diego and we all wish him well.
We have always been very open with our readers about what is going on, even in our midst. It is not always pretty, but it is sincere. Some folks like that. Apparently you don’t. Oh well.
Yes I made a typo….6am just drinking my first cup o’joe.
I did not say I did not like it. Personally, I enjoy watching your explode and unload on your “friends”….I always find that while you are freaking out on them, they reveal truth about things you do here. Now we all know that you edit and remove posts that you do not like…which is funny since you criticize Jubal of that very thing.
As to you being open and sincere, I find you more caustic and full of emotions you have not yet learned how to control for the good of your cause…which may be why you have such a struggle getting the things done you desire on the Santa Ana Council, or anywhere for that matter.
But please, by all means keep on trucking on, I enjoy the emplosions.
Flowerszzz,
You are not being fair at all. I never unloaded on Sean. We questioned what to do about him while he was on vacation, but made no moves to remove him until it became clear that his new mission was to bring us down.
We do not hide the fact that we moderate our posts. We have to. There are a lot of crazies who try to post curse words and lies. We routinely delete them.
Furthermore, I am not to blame for the problems on our City Council. The Council Members themselves are.
Lastly, down some more coffee. Implosions is spelled with an “i” not an “e.”
Spelling is not my strongest suit, I can admit that. But hey, way to try and take the focus off the issue at hand and find something irrelevent to complain about. LOL.
I never said you were to blame for the issues in SA….I merely pointed out that you fail to acomplish what you seek because you cannot control your emotions and lash out and then think later.
Lol, you took the words right out of my mouth Flowerzzz.
Art, quite honestly I am ecstatic that you are acting the way you are. You, Claudio (who is sure a big fan of attention “I’m leaving. Wait no, I’m back. Hold on, I’m leaving. I’m back!” give me a break) and your new bloggers are so intellectually dishonest that you can’t see past your own BS.
Keep that in mind next time you throw stones at Jubal/OC Blog. You LIVE in a glass house Art.
I will be the one voice that is willing to not act like a poor man’s version of OC Blog.
That could be a step up for you, Sean.
Sean,
I’m against Measure D. What about you mijo?
It strikes me that Art is jealous of Sean. Art has been ignorant and ineffective on his own commission – unable to sway anyone with his own opinions through sound argument, and unable to make a difference.
He has also shown the youth of today that if you can’t beat ’em, quit. Do you not realize Art that your actions are just the same psychology as a “gang”? Stick to your homies, don’t be part of the system that can make a real difference, lash out at those who oppose you, push out those that don’t follow your philosophy and cast friendships aside, encourage your own tight group that will turn against anyone who defies your desires. You are the worst role model I have ever seen.
You are right, you don’t belong in a government position, and you will eventually find out that Santa Ana does not embrace your willfulness, and egotistical and defiant methods. You play mean, and just like a gang member, you don’t understand that to be part of the solution, you must learn to work with those whom you oppose.
You have a lot of soul-searching and growing up to do to get there if you are ever going to really “make a difference”. Respectable leadership entails leading by example and by respecting the opinions of those who think differently than you.
Poster 17,
Did you ever attend any of my commission meetings? I got along just fine with my fellow commissioners. And we did accomplish a few things. I helped to rewrite our bylaws. At the last meeting I joined with two other commissioners to defeat an onerous project.
I resigned because it was the best way to protest what was done to Thomas. And I had a tip that the City Council was coming after me next. Why give them the satisfaction of removing me? Instead I coordinated another embarrassing media storm – and I hear the Mayor was quite upset with Sal after the fact. Perhaps that is why Sean is so upset that I quit.
Your last sentence is hilarious. Has Sean yet learned to work with those who think differently than him? You saw what he did here at the Orange Juice. To his own friends. If anyone has some growing up to to, it is Sean.
It must really bug him that I have allied with Julie Stroud to defeat Measure D, which we all know he supports because Sal supports it.