Well, we can all rest easy now. The Santa Ana City Council votes last night to “stop issuing permits for massage technicians and businesses for the next 45 days,” according to the O.C. Register.
Apparently federal and state officials have recently been cracking down on massage parlors that are actually houses of ill repute, and the faux massage technicians packed up and headed for Santa Ana.
The Register reported that Councilwoman Claudia Alvarez said, “We have received over 20 applications this year alone based on them being driven out of other cities.”
I guess the massage prostitutes didn’t understand the phrase “free enterprise zone.”
You have to wonder why state, federal and local officials are spending so much time and resources to stop the apparently rampant “happy endings” in Orange County cities such as Anaheim, Tustin, Orange and Dana Point, which is where the raids occurred.
Was there no other violent crime to go after?
We have a gang violence crisis in our city that is out of control – exactly how does this move help with that?
I imagine that the Santa Ana City Council had no choice given the pressure they received from state and federal officials, but this whole massage crisis is ridiculous on its face. It tells you a lot about the misplaced priorities of our government.
If the same federal and state officials put half this effort into solving the gang problem we would all be a lot better off for it. Instead, those of us who legitimately need massage services, often for chronic back and neck pain, will likely have to pay more for those services now that the market has been artificially constricted.
Now we all know that nature abhors a vacuum. Prostitution exists because there is a market for it. This sweep did nothing to stop the demand. It just pinched off the supply. That supply will resurface somewhere else, in some other sort of business. It always does.
Yes, but one could just change the word from “prostitution” to “drugs” and you can see the ridiculous logic of your argument. You think police and government should only pursue crimes of a certain degree?
Purrfectly delightful kibbles!
The L.A. times reported today that homicides and gang violence are down throughtout Los Angeles. That’s all happenning with a Latino Mayor, yet with Santa Ana’s Eunich Mayor crime homicides and gang violence are on the rise. Is the Mayor afraid to tackle this problem head-on because his twig has no berries? Maybe the Mayor should seek advice from “Da Mayor” Willie Brown.
“Yes, but one could just change the word from “prostitution” to “drugs” and you can see the ridiculous logic of your argument.”
#1
If you would not be such an ignorant you would know that Holland has both the Prostitution and Drugs legal and have fraction of the crime mostly committed by immigrants.
Only one person opposed the council yesterday. Only one superior intelligence acted.
Perhaps the berriless mayor benefits from having his city riddled with gang violence, no libraries, shoddy roads and rewarding relationships with developers.
Maybe Mayor Minus Berries has everyone fooled. Expect him to pull Nativo Lopez and leave the city with is pockets full of money.
This whole debate really rubs me the wrong way!!!
I’ve got a good friend who was ready to buy one of the transit lofts next to the Depot for her holistic health therapy practice, only to learn that because massage was part of her services, she wouldn’t get a business license.
I think that spending tax dollars trying to prevent victimless crimes (prostitution, drug use, and so on) is a huge waste of money and police time that could be much better spent elsewhere, fighting (and hopefully preventing) crimes against people and their property. The hooker turning tricks in a hotel room does me no harm; the punk spraying graffitti on my fence with stolen paint harms both me and Home Depot. Yet which activity is regarded as the greater crime?
“Yet which activity is regarded as the greater crime?”
#8
The greater crime is that you have not joined yesterday only public speaker against the ban.
You may remedy and e-mail the council.
Use your real name and repeat the above question.
I think that anyone who considers himself — contemporary intellectual — should do that.
2008 election is coming fast.
Do you want more of the same?
This goes along with former Councilmember Alberta Christy’s ranting against topless bars many years ago. Her Council ward was a living hell due to gangs and crime but Alberta concentraited on the Wet T-Shirt contests at some bar on the other side of town, the Black History Parade, and the youth carnival. We really miss you Alberta! You left such a lasting legacy! jejeje
Paul is a real person and as always makes a great point. Why are we going after a few members of the Asian American community who want to help our residents get rid of a little stress? I think this is racist profiling of Asian American women!
Gee, and I was waiting for a boutique massage service to open up at Crevier. Darn ——
I will pipe in on this one Art….Being a business owner in Santa Ana, in an extremely industrial area….we had a “accupuncture” business open up a few doors down recently. After about 2 weeks it became VERY evident that “accupuncture” was not the service being provided. Not only is this industrial area not the right setting for accupunture, there were only male clients, in and out all day and only there for about 20 minutes or so (LOL)
Well I was not the only tenant to notice, and a few complained to the land lord, etc. (they have since vacated before I called police to report) I never thought I would have to be faced with owning a business next door to a brothel.
Prostitution is not a victimless crime boys….perhaps if you are single. But what about the families, diseases. Personally I don’t care BUT I certainly do not want my business next door to it.
You can get a massage at Crevier..but it’s a “Mini” massage!
Flowerszzz,
The point of this post is that the City of Santa Ana unveiled a shock and awe campaign against massage parlors literally overnight. But our Mayor has yet to publicly address the eruption of gang violence.
I cannot think of any other big city Mayor who would still be sitting on his hands even as little kids as young as three are being shot.
I see your point however I suspect that no matter what the Mayor of Santa Ana does you would complain. I for one believe that along with prostitution comes violence, crime and drugs. It does not take much effort of the City Council to impose a moratorium in something…the gang violence is a whole beast that has no simple one answer. The gang violence has been ongoing in Santa Ana for upwards of 20 years, hardly a solution can be found over night.
Flowerszzz,
Not at all. Pulido just has not done much to deserve any kudos from me.
And the gang violence eruption in our city this year is unlike anything I have seen in over ten years.
Again, I cannot imagine any other big city Mayor being as invisible as Pulido. What a shame. He could have been a great leader. Instead, his legacy will be void of any substance.
Flowerszzz, you need to read Ain’t Nobody’s Business If I Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in a Free Society by Peter McWilliams. He makes an excellent case that the problems you identified (violence and disease) are actually caused by criminalizing “victimless crimes” like prostitution and drug use. If people who sell drugs weren’t afraid to call police when they’re robbed at gunpoint, there would be fewer armed robberies. And if the cost of drugs wasn’t artificially inflated by their illegality (remember Prohibition?), there would be fewer armed robberies (and fewer drug dealers).
The whole premise of the “War on Drugs” is that free American citizens aren’t competent to decide what they want to put in their own bodies. And that’s an intolerable affront to adults.
#18,
You are preaching to the choir.
It would be prudent if you would take same stand at your SantaAnaCitizens list and preach the same to your prudes.
I understand that any discussion at your forum regarding the sex is baned.
How many potholes could be filled with the taxes from a thriving
[How many potholes could be filled with the taxes from a thriving
I simply don’t understand the flap over the Council deciding to do a 45 day moratorium on issuing licenses to massage parlors. These places were kicked out of other Cities because they caused problems. Why should Santa Ana put out a red carpet welcoming them? They can be a public nuisance, places where drugs are bought and sold and create other problems for nearby business and residents. Who wants more of them in their City? Why would anyone encourage more of them in their City?
If you believe that prostitution should be legal, and Santa Ana needs a “red Light District fine. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Lobby to have the laws changed. If you believe that these places are the only place where you can get a legitimate massage, you are ill informed. They are available at many legitimate gyms, rehab facilities and other well monitored places.
As for Alberta Christy, she truly believed that topless bars, and other such businesses, brought in many customers that added to the crime and other problems in those locations. She did not focus on them instead of gangs. She tried to deal with several issues which she believed had a negative impact on the quality of life in Santa Ana. Isn’t that what a City Council should be doing?
Morning Coffee
Morning Coffee,
You might want to switch back to regular coffee instead of decaf.
The flap is that our Mayor made massage parlors a priority while three year old children are being shot. Why hasn’t he had a news conference to address this eruption of gang violence in our city?
Pulido’s usual hide under the desk strategy is not working anymore – if it ever did.
As for Christy, she is gone, left no legacy whatsoever, and her replacement, David Benavides, appears to be set to continue doing what she did. Nada.
Cook – I may read the book if I ever have time….however, If you want to provide me the address next door to your place of business, I will hand it over the the gals and let ’em move next door to you! (Since they are moving) 😛
In the meantime I would like to have an honest, moral and legit business, with other honest, moral and legit businesses around me. Prostitution is illegal as it stands here today…therefore the law should be enforced.
And anyway least if you are going to have a whore house you could make a little less obvious!
Art
You need to get a grip! You flog away at Pulido saying repeatedly he is sitting on his hands while kids are getting gunned down, all the while he is setting the ground work for 10 NEW police officers to deal specifically with gangs. The hiring of those new officers was brought to a vote at the SAME meeting placing a moratorium on massage parlors When do you think would the right time to address the massage parlor issue? This month when there were 20 new license requests, or maybe AFTER those and 20 more have moved in. Come on Art, do you think that the Mayor and Council have the luxury of dealing with one issue at a time?
#18 said
>It would be prudent if you would
>take same stand at your
>SantaAnaCitizens list and preach
>the same to your prudes.
I think I’ve said any number of times, both on SACits and elsewhere, that actions that harm neither other’s persons nor their property –“victimless crimes” — should not be against the law.
>I understand that any discussion
>at your forum regarding the sex
>is baned.
You’d be wrong. You’re welcome to talk about sex on SACits, so long as you are germane, relevant, and not vulgar. As I said to a chap named Stanley Fiala, –perhaps you know him?– my list, my rules.
and Flowerszzz said…
>Cook – I may read the book if I
>ever have time….
Excellent. My name is Paul Cook-Giles; first name or last name is fine, but I’d appreciate it if you didn’t truncate my surname. 🙂
Art said-
“The flap is that our Mayor made massage parlors a priority while three year old children are being shot. Why hasn’t he had a news conference to address this eruption of gang violence in our city?”
The Mayor did NOT make massage parlors a PRIORITY. It was one issue, out of many, put on the meeting agenda. It was supported by the Police, and the Council voted on it. They also voted on other issues on the agenda. That’s called doing the business of the City.
And why should he be criticized for not holding a press conference about that child who was shot? He’s has made his feelings about the increased gang violence well known. He’s spending his time trying to DO something, rather than just putting his face out there for publicity.
You seem to think the number of newspaper stories a Council member has written about them has some direct correlation to their competence. Sorry, but that isn’t the case. It just shows who is issuing more press releases.
Morning Coffee
Morning Coffee –
Another shooting in Santa Ana.
When will the Mayor hold a press conference and address this issue? OR
How many shootings and/or killings will it take for the Mayor to make this a PRIORITY?
There’s a massive elephant in the cafe lounge and the mayor chooses to ignore it. I applaud Michele Martinez for acknowledging there’s an elephant sitting in the cafe lounge. And kudos to Council members Tinajero and Sarmiento for attending the vigils held in their ward.
The massage parlor issue should not trump the gang violence that’s erupted in the city.
Paul – I am happy to address you by your first name. Sorry but I don’t get the whole men hyphenating their last names thing.
Anon #28 – the massage parlor did not trump any issue….it was on the agenda. And any other member of the council is allowed to have press conferences if they like…so why don’t they on this issue if the Mayor wont????
Paul,
Pay attention to #29’s fixation on hyphenating the last name.Today it is Immigration and Massage parlors.Tomorrow when the Gay community is no longer needed to upgrade neiehborhoods it will be Gay issues.
LOL – Lomelli – I have no idea whether Paul is gay or not…some straight men hyphenate their names as well…don’t get it either way.
AND my name is Flowerszzz not #29 😛
#31 – Anon – That is just an excuse! Who cares if they have a PIO….plain and simple…if the MAYOR is not paying attention to the issues the citizens think are important – TELL HIM. If he is not listening, tell another councilmember ask them to take the lead.
#32,
LOL – what a load of bull.
Lomelli – u hittin the sauce a little early for the Memorial Day weekend! I could care less if you are gay, straight – whatever. Not my passion issue nor is it any of my business. And if you are a gay man as long as you are not a bigger bitch then I am – doesn’t bother me in the slightest. The hyphenation thing is just something that I personally do not get – even when women do it.
Additionally – no one, especially me, has been discussing ILLEGAL immigration in this post. Lay off the sauce hun…I am sure Paul can stick up for himself if I offended him.
#34. No hitting the sauce here hun.I would’t worry about your self described position beign replaced by someone else-LOL.
I am not defending Paul. I am making a comment on this blog as you do. If I follow your logic then I would question your blogging by saying to you-Lay of the sauce hun…I am sure the 8th floor can stick up for themselves.
Lomelli – I think you have A.D.D. or something then if you are not drunk….I suggest you go back and re read my posts….I have not been defending the 8th floor. Yes I applaud their ban on massage parlors for reasons I described in an earlier post here – did you bother to read it? Paul asked me to read a book, and asked me to not call him cook. I poked a bit of fun at him for his hyphenated name – as it is something that I don’t get….whereby you piped in with your rambly and incoherent something about gays upgrading the neighborhoods?!?! Then told me I was full of bull – but about what – who the hell knows? I am sorry Lomelli you lost me at the first sentence in your post #30.
#36. I have read your posts on this blog and other blogs.I think other readers that have also read your posts will agree with me that you are the one that is affected with A.D.D. You sound confused about what you post and read.How full of yourself you are to suggest that people are drunk,on drugs or have A.D.D because they have a different opinion than yours.Why would people give you any credebility when you have this character problem?
Lomelli – I must have missed it – when exactly did you even bother to post an opinion here on this issue? I have not seen you engage in this posts topic of conversation at all, merely attack me, and I you in rebut.
Take a look at your own posts, and then talk to me about credibility & character. If you don’t like to be addressed here then don’t address others. I normally ignore your posts as they mostly make no sense, but when you address me personally….I point it out.
There is something definitely wrong with Flowerzzz or is it flowerzzz? I heard from a pajarito it’s really Flores.
#38. WWWHATEVER…you are ranting now.I am not complaining about debating you.The more you talk the more transparent you become.Please go on.What I say makes no sense to you.That doesn’t suprise me.Life experiences,an open mind and agendas are usually the reason for this.Your posts include personal criticisms of bloggers and public servants.Talk about attacking-you are the kettle calling the pot black.
LOL lomelli – I personally criticized you because you did me, as you usually do. Actually this post was quite civil until you came along…which is also an as usual.
Still waiting for you to chime in with an actual opinion about THIS topic…but if it makes you feel better…keep talking about me.
#39 – is that you again trying to figure out who I am??? I will give you a clue. My first and last name initials are in my blog name.
Flowerzzz, flowerzzz, Flores, Florezzz, who gives a sh*t.
#42. Enough said.Thank you for the closure.
LOL I agree – who gives a crap who I am. I am nobody but Lomelli gets all riled up at me and just does not like me because I am a female with stong opinions that can stick up for herself.
Flowerszzz.
“A female with strong opinions that can stick up for herself.”
Sounds like Michele Martinez. For the record, Dr. Lomeli is a prominent backer of Councilwoman Martinez.
You seem to have a pretty dim view of immigrants – and you wrote at Liberal OC that you live in Costa Mesa. Are you a backer of the infamous Millard cabal?
Art nice try – I have a dim view of ILLEGAL immigrants. And no I am not connected with Millard – I am not a Nazi – lol. As far as Lomelli – I get it he only likes strong women who agree with is points of view.
#46.
Every one of your posts have “LOL”.Everything seems to be funny to you.By your responses it appears you LOL in a crazy way while you post.I don’t know you so I can’t like you nor dislike you.I can agree or disagree with you though.Some of my closest freinds that I like very much diagree with me on many topics.We enjoy the conversations and I often come out with a different perspective of the issues discussed.
Art. Watch out for #44. I can hear her sing “I am woman hear me roar” and I’m pretty sure she believes she is invincible. I’ve watched her type fizzle out. That whole mantra of “You will respect me” gets boring after a while. Someone buy her a cat, she needs unconditional love.
Yes Lomelli I use lol(laugh out loud) in many of my posts – it is how you chuckle or laugh on the internet. Most of what is said here makes me LOL quite often. But since it offends you so, and out of respect for my elders, I will try not to use it so much. ;-P
Again, you have not even discussed the topic at hand, in fact you never even gave your opinion on the matter. You have only given you opinions of me….which I could really care less about.
You & #48 strike me as very old fashioned…wake up it is the year 2007 and just because I have have opinions and choose to voice them there must be something wrong with me?!?! Well I hope Hillary does not win your party primary because you both will be stuck. Hillary has more cahones then most of the men around.
I don’t care if either one of you agree with me or respect me – you don’t have to, you don’t even know who I am.
Different opinions and points of view are what makes the world and the blog world go around boys. Even Pedroza knows that!
You don’t like different opinions then yours then I suggest you stick your head back in the sand and let the world move about you.
Flowerzzz, flowerzzz, Floresss, floresss aka Helen Reddy. Tsk Tsk. You make some assumptions about me (#48) that are incorrect. You however with your longing to be respected don’t seem to understand that respect is earned. You are correct in that this is the year 2007. Now put your bra back on and stop acting like a FemiNazi. If you behave yourself, one day you may grow up and be BOSSY like me. /s/ KELLIS
I love tht you keep calling me FLores – why is that? You ASSuming I am spanish?
Yea I am acting like a feminazi because I don’t want a “massage” parlor next door to my business. Shame on me! Shame on me for wanting moral and legit businesses in Santa Ana. That is a terrible thing. You are right – I should just keep my mouth shut like a good little girl.