According to yesterday’s O.C. Register, Supervisor John Moorlach wants to make use of a state law that allows counties to make money by raising fines for traffic tickets. AS the Register puts it, “Supervisor John Moorlach has another idea. Tax illegal immigrants landing in Orange County jails.”
The idea raised the ire of Latino activists from O.C. to D.C. According to the Register, “Peter Zamora, acting regional counsel in the Washington, D.C., office of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund, said he would await more specifics on the proposed Orange County tax before commenting but did note that such a plan “potentially raises a host of legal and constitutional concerns, not least of which is that only the federal government can generally regulate in the field of immigration.”
It strikes me that such a tax would amount to taxation without representation. Moorlach wants to use the money to “fund overburdened hospital emergency rooms.” Here’s a thought – why not provide low-cost clinics for the poor, so they don’t have to go to ER rooms in the first place?
I teach part-time at Cerritos College, for an apprenticeship program for open shop painters. The other day one of my students showed up with an awful laceration on one of his fingers. I pulled my first aid kit out of my SUV and showed the students how to treat such a wound.
After talking to the injured painter, I found out that his employer had not treated his wound and had not referred him to a clinic. He had violated state occupational health and safety, and worker’s compensation, laws in the process. I also found out that only one of my fifteen students had health insurance. My entire class that day was composed of Latino students.
If the fellow’s hand had gotten infected, he would have ended up in an ER room. And he likely would not have been able to pay the bill. Of course I advised him to go to a clinic and have them charge his employer. But he probably didn’t.
Many Americans don’t want to hear about problems with health insurance. And they are fed up with illegal immigrants. But they want to be able to hire cheap painters. They want to go to non-union grocery stores and pay less for more. They want cheap babysitters and household help. They like paying less than $6 for a hamburger combo meal. They just don’t want to pay the bill for the costs associated with fielding a vast force of underpaid undocumented workers.
It worries me that Trung Nguyen might replace Lou Correa on the O.C. Board of Supervisors. What a step down for Latinos in the First District. Nguyen has not hidden the fact that he despises the undocumented. Even as they wash his cars, mow his lawns and probably were involved in the printing of his campaign mailers.
Nguyen will now be able to team up with Moorlach and fellow conservative Supervisor Chris Norby – to form a board majority – and immigrants will pay the price.
Maybe Chris Prevatt is right. Lou Correa should have stayed on the Board of Supervisors. Now there is no one to speak up for Latinos and the poor in general. The ultimate irony is that Lynn Daucher, who was just appointed to head up the California Department for the Aging, would have served as a moderate State Senator. Correa was not needed for the 34th. The seat was not going to go to an extremist.
Benny Diaz may have lost in the Supervisorial election, but he will have his hands full opposing a Board of Supervisors that may as well be fitted with Stormtrooper outfits, when it comes to dealing with the poor and the undocumented.
Cry me a river Art. The illegals are the ones clogging up the ERs. They don’t pay a dime for all these expensive services. We are right to try to recoup some of these costs from them. Besides, Supervisor Moorlach has only proposed a tax on criminal illegal aliens. It’s a good start. Hopefully Trung will follow through with his election promises to get tough on illegal immigration if he is certified the winner.
Look at it this way, our Sacramento socialist legislators have done a great job taxing companies so bad that they are forced to relocate out of state. John’s “tax criminal illegal aliens” plan is like that in reverse. Maybe illegal aliens will get fed up of paying all these taxes and self deport themselves home.
This is nothing new. In the last state election, we had Prop 86 which would have taxed smokers to pay for health care for nonsmokers, children and undocumented health care expenses.
Public policy often favors redistribution of wealth from one group to another, so this is just another reasonable solution to cover the spiraling court and jail costs.
“Nguyen will now be able to team up with Moorlach and fellow conservative Supervisor Chris Norby – to form a board majority – and immigrants will pay the price.”
It is essential to understand the language:
The “migrate” = To move from one country or region and settle in another.
The “emigrate” = To leave one country or region to settle in another.
The “immigrate” = To enter and settle in a country or region to which one is not native.
Please notice that while migration or emigration means to move or leave respectively, the immigration means to enter.
In any civilized society any entry requires a permission to enter.
We have laws against unlawful entry while moving and leaving is constitutionally protected.
So it is proper for Nguyen to team up with Moorlach and Norby to punish anyone who commits an unlawful entry.
Thanks Art,
It is interesting that Moorlach wants to give the money to local hospitals for their emergency services.
We tax people to give money to for profit businesses, to help increase their profits.
Hmmm, where have I heard of this before???
Oh yes, Redevelopment Funds. You take a portion of property taxes and give those funds along with sales tax breaks to for profit businesses to open up shop in your neighborhoods.
I wonder what Darth Norby’s take on this will be. My guess is he’ll endorse the idea since the only ones effected will be the Mexicans and the poor. Like Norby once said to the Office of Aging Director in OC, “Why do we need to do anything special for the Mexicans?”
Hey anon poster # 2.
Given your logic we should also lthen levy the same fines on any tourist or visitor that comes to Orange County and somehow breaks a law.
Immagine the funds we can raise stationing sheriff deputies along the streets around Disneyland and nailing each and every J-walker with a $500 fine.
Or better yet, just change the law in OC to say if you cannot prove legal residency in Orange County and you are cited for a violation or arrested for a crime, your penalties are double because you don’t live here.
This is the height of insanity and stupidity. Anyone wonder now why this fool should not have been elected.
“We tax people to give money to for profit businesses, to help increase their profits.”
Unless you are gravely impaired Chris, you should know that the underlined businesses is going out of business!
The attempt is made to keep it in the business so when you have a heart attack they have business to take you to.
I swear, tonight I am going to go to godaddy.com & reserve http://www.artpedrozaisaleftwingdemocrat.com so that I can document the views of this so-called Republican.
If you truly care about health care for illegals, then please open your own low-cost clinic. To propose that the government should do this is insulting.
The reason that the cost is so high in the first place is because people physically LAUGH when given the bill when leaving the hospital. The people know that there is no recourse if they dont pay the bill, thats why they go to the ER when they get the sniffles in the first place.
Take illegal immigrants out of the picture & look what happens: They percentage of residents with health insurance triples. The hospitals begin to get paid. ER’s are much less crowded. Hospitals can then COMPETE for business, which would reduce rates considerably because it would introduce competition into the marketplace. Currently, there is no need to compete when every hospital has a line snaking out the door. They can charge whatever they like.
Take illegals out if the housing market: Instantly Santa Ana would have TONS of affordable housing. Rents would probably be sliced in half. Overcrowding would be lessened considerably.
Take illegals out of the workforce: Wages would go UP dramatically because the pool of available workers would be much less. Employers would be desperate for bodies……which would give prospective employees 100% leverage. It would be a left-wing wackos wet dream: A “living” wage for everybody. The laws of supply & demand are pretty simple.
Car insurance would be lower.
Crime rate would be lower.
Traffic would be less congested.
Schools would not be overcrowded.
If the price of babysitting, fast food, gardening, painting & other services goes up…..so be it. It would be more than offset by my increased disposable income caused by my lower rent, lower insurance bill, lower healthcare bill & other savings.
Remember Art: Somehow South Dakota finds people to wash the dishes, clean the toilets, cut the grass, paint the homes, & take care of the children. To suggest we couldnt also is another insult.
Congrats Art. I will be eagerly awaiting your creation of the Illegal Immigrant Cares & Concerns Subcommittee for the county GOP. Too bad it will only have one member.
#6,
Please do me the favor, of referencing where it is you get your data. It seems as if you are making up numbers without really proving anything.
A big problem is that these government high brows can’t fathom reality with this tax/fine idea.
There is not any money to collect.
The accounting will says there is income, and these jerks will spend it, but they will never collect the tax/fine and it will become a bad debt.
And then the high brows will need to cut
Luis, the message from Post # 6 is all his/her perception and pure oppinion . If there was research then all the points would be cancelled when the positive factors are placed in the equation. Many private and public agencies have done the research that negates the assumptions posted by #6 . Look it up on google search.
We’re the only major industrialized country in the world that doesn’t have some form of universal health care.
Enough Said!
By the way, if the Supervisors TRULY want to save money, how about starting with themselves.
County Supervisors not only make a full-time salary in the six-figure range, they also get stipends for all the Board and Commissions they sit on – OCTA, etc. That amount is thousands per month.
How about cutting those stipends since they already get a salary and save us tax payers some dollars for oh, Emergency Rooms?
Art:
Below is a link to the Secretary of State wbeiste where you can download a voter registration form.
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_d.htm
You might consider using it to re-register as a Democrat, because your positions and rhetoric are increasingly indistinguishable from the Democrats.
#2, you say that “In any civilized society any entry requires a permission to enter”. You forget that a hundred years ago there were few to no immigration restrictions, except the Chinese Exclusion laws (1881). Does that mean, the US was not “civilized” before about 1920? Or before 1881. #6 believes all our high-cost woes are the illegals’ fault, as if it’s their fault rents are high. Sure, people want to pay $1600/month for a thousand square feet, split into a handful of rooms. They want to put two and three families into that space. They crave it like justice. They beg to pay that much–and more–and at the same time they express their passion for below market wages and zero preventative medicine.
The only people who benefit from this divisive blame the victims rhetoric are those who exploit the immigrants and use them to keep the citizens poorer and weaker. Ending the exploitation is what’s really needed, but that’ll be harder because you’re going to have to take on more powerful people. It’s not hard to imagine solving the problems #6 cites with a little more democracy: labor rights for all, including the undocumented and a more open immigration-to-citizenship policy, which is what the US had in place when my own grandparents arrived from Germany. All my grandparents had to do was show up and go to work, which is what they generally did and what today’s immigrants generally do too. Better yet, when the early twentieth century generations of immigrants got organized they arguably produced the New Deal through their unions and their votes. With all the problems the New Deal had–and there were many–it ameliorated poverty significantly.
Thinking you’ll solve the immigration “problem” with handcuffs and high walls is foolish. You’ll encourage the creeping police state is all. We’ll all still be poorer, but at least the government will know about it better than ever–right down to where you bought your last 0.99 hamburger. Makes me wanna holler.
Matt,
You stole my thunder.
Art,
Come into the light. It’s not that bad. I know you like us better.
Jubal – can we fill it out for him? Let’s be generous and GIVE art to the Dems! It is our gift!
Luis,
This is #6 speaking. Please speak up if you disagree with any one of the following:
If illegal immigrants were removed from our society:
The rate of insured people would go up
Hospitals would see a higher ratio of payment per patient
There would be less traffic
Supply of housing would increase, thereby lowering rents
Less people in the workforce = higher wages
Schools would lose students & lessen overcrowding
Pretty common sense stuff. Verdad?
I also found out that only one of my fifteen students had health insurance. My entire class that day was composed of Latino students.
**********************
Paying attention to what SAUSD is trying to do to their teachers in the area of health care? Over $800/month escalation in fees for teachers who want to exercise their choice of doctors, rather than taking chances at clinics.
#13 “Does that mean, the US was not “civilized” before about 1920?”
Yes!
In 1920 before and after the the lynching of blacks was legal and they were hanging from the tree, right on the main, street for days.
About that time there was last lynching of an innocent Mexican right in front of the old courthouse in Santa Ana. Check the history of Santa Ana.
Art –
I am glad you tell the story about your illegal immigrant injured student.
You complain about his employer breaking numerous laws. Fair enough. One quick question though: If the employer is breaking the law, isn’t your student also breaking the law merely by his presence?
Since you are a fair guy, I am sure you would want to enforce all laws equally, right?
Employer should be ticketed & fined, right Art? Then your student should be put on the next turquoise bus to TJ, right Art?
Fair is fair, right Art?
Denmother:
Be careful what you wish for…
JS:
You could sum upo my immigration position as increased legal immigration, some kind of regularization of the existing illegal immigratn population (while deporting illegals as we find them), plus vigorous border enforcement (including the 700-mile fence).
Now that you have the short-hand version of my immigration views, I’d like to point out that your characterization of pre-1920 immigration policy isn’t entierely accurate. Immigrants were screened and processed. Those with diseases were sent back. I think there were other circumstances that led to immigratns being sent back, but I don’t recall what they were.
So while we didn’t have national quotas, it wasn’t a free-for-all where absolutely anyone who made it here was allowed in.
Lastly, it is difficult to have reasonable, informed debate on immigration when the distinction between legal and illegal immigration is ignored, and when opposition to illegal immigration is simplistically, stupidly and disingeuously criticized as “anti-immigrant” or “anti-Latino.”
It strikes me that such a tax would amount to taxation without representation.
Can you please explain that feat of illogic?
Illegal immigrants can’t have representation in American government — because not only are they not citizens, they are here ILLEGALLY.
By your logic import duties or any kind of entry fee to enter the US is “taxation without representation.”
Perhaps Art should change his name to Aztlan Pedroza.
Matt/Jubal,
I am going to surmise that your sudden onset of the nasties is a result of your boy Bustamante getting blown away on Election Day. Get over it – he lost and that is a good thing.
As for your comments, actually they are pretty funny. However, if I leave the GOP, I will more likely go DTS than Dem. Neither party is a good fit for me anymore.
I find it interesting that so many of my fellow Reeps feel that our party is the anti-Mexican party. Really? If that is the case, I won’t be long for this party…
I am going to surmise that your sudden onset of the nasties is a result of your boy Bustamante getting blown away on Election Day. Get over it – he lost and that is a good thing.
Pedroza/Art:
No nasties, amigo. I’m serious — in recent weeks you sound much more like a Democrat than a Republican, and you’re especially sounding like more like some left-wing LA politico whose politics revolve around “La Raza.” “Stormtroopers”? “Tacking right against the poor and undocumented”? You sound like Gil Cedillo and that Coyotl clown.
As for Carlos — as I’ve said repeatedly, I endorsed no one in that race. If I were a 1st SD voter, I’d have voted for either Carlos, Mark Rosen or maybe Trung Nguyen.
My comments here have nothing to do with Carlos Bustamante — you’re the one with the Carlos fixation, not me.
And just how many of our fellow Reeps feel the party is anti-Mexican?
Matt/Jubal,
And yet on Election Night you found yourself at Bustamante’s party. Whatever, he is done and not worth discussing any longer.
As for my recent post re our Supervisors, let’s face it, I am not excited about Trung’s ascendancy. Coupled with Moorlach’s tax idea, it sure seems like our BOS has a decidedly anti-Mexican slant.
As for your last question, I cannot quantify the answer, but suffice to say that you are not the only one who has asked me to leave the party of late. Considering that I was the only Latino to win a seat on our Central Committee last year, it sure seems like you guys want to oust every last Latino from the party…
Art,
What about Tom Fuentes, or is he too much of a coconut to qualify as a Latino?
Anonymous 16,
What you say might be true but how much do you want to pay for your produce? How much do you want to pay to go out to eat? What about the lease in your office building?
What we might save on insurance,lower housing costs and higher wages would be spent on food and service. You probably won’t be able to keep the maid anymore either.
Coupled with Moorlach’s tax idea, it sure seems like our BOS has a decidedly anti-Mexican slant.
John proposed a tax on criminals who are illegal immigrants, not Mexicans. You are the one who is making those equivalents.
As for your last question, I cannot quantify the answer, but suffice to say that you are not the only one who has asked me to leave the party of late. Considering that I was the only Latino to win a seat on our Central Committee last year, it sure seems like you guys want to oust every last Latino from the party…
Oh brother, now I’ve heard it all. Suggesting you would be more comfortable as a Democrat means the “many Republicans” you are unable to quantify want all Mexicans out of the party? To paraphrase Louis XIV, La Raza C’est Moi! Is it all about race for you, Pedroza/Art?
We’re the only major industrialized country in the world that doesn’t have some form of universal health care.
That’s brilliant logic.
So, back in the 1930s, one could have used a the same line of reasoning to advocate for fascism/Nazisim/communism:
“We’re almost the only major industrialized country in the world that doesn’t have some form of totalitarian government.”
Or back in the 1770s-80s-90s, it would have been handy reasoning for opposing independence and republican government:
“We’ll the only major civilized country in the world that doesn’t have some form of monarchy.”
Wow! Orange County has online voter registration!
https://voters.ocgov.com/index.htm
Even though the Doc’s and hospitals are major political contributors, perhaps it is time for the Supervisors to look them in the eye and tell them that the county has no role in the issue of emergency room treatment of the undocumented. Time to push back on the medical industry ?
Matt/Jubal,
Give it a rest. I don’t think we are going to agree on these issues.
I’m off to the Memphis…
Art,
I am shocked that this comes as a suprise to you. Scapegoating the poor, minorities and the undocumented has been the lifeblood of the Orange County Republicans for years. In fact, racist political tactics and fear mongering are key components in the GOP playbook for as long as I can remember.
Whether it was creating the “Black Boogeyman”, aka Willie Brown, to scare white folks into voting Republican or hiring poll guards to intimidate Latino voters, the Orange County Republicans know no boundries when it comes to despicable, racist behavior.
The fact that the likes of John Moorlach is leading the charge is even less suprising. The first time I met John was at a meeting in Costa Mesa around 1989 or 1990. The room was full of right-wing kooks, from YAF’ers to John Birch’ers. It was nothing more than a Latino bashing free for all with Moorlach at the helm.
I decided then an there that Moorlach was a scary man with a racist agenda. It still saddens me to see that so many have bought into this guy. Perhaps this action will help bring his true colors to the surface for all to see. Sadly however, his being a bigot is a plus for many in the GOP and others as well.
I am sick and tired of the immigrant bashing and scapegoating, whether they are legal or illegal. The immigrant community is a major reason for the economic strength of California and of Santa Ana in particular.
Those that say that they don’t pay their fair share are either ignorant or lying. It is time that we stand up against this bigotry and fight for those that may not be able to fight for themselves.
I am no fan of the BOS nor Moorlach however, people they are not talking about IMMIGRANTS. They are speaking of ILLEGAL immigrants. There is a difference.
flowerszzz,
“people they are not talking about IMMIGRANTS. They are speaking of ILLEGAL immigrants.”
Let me remind you that they are speaking about human beings. A human being is neither legal, nor illegal, they are simply human beings.
By placing the tag “illegal” upon them you are attempting to dehumanize them. I for one will not stand for it.
Those that say that they don’t pay their fair share are either ignorant or lying.
Are you kidding?
How the hell does someone with 2,3,4 or 5 kids who makes poverty wages and pay little to no taxes pay his/her fair share?those kids cost 8 to 10 thousand a year to educate.Each.Then there are the deliveries in the hospital paid for by American taxpayers.The WIC programs and AFDC programs and free school lunches and free emergency room visits and higher car insurance premiums for American taxpayers via uninsured motorist premiums.The cost of prisons and infrastructure.The cost to taxpayers in California alone due to undocumented criminal aliens is 10 BILLION a year.
How about we call them criminal aliens since they break our immigration laws, employment laws, tax laws and on and on it goes.
Criminal aliens it is then.
Sean:
Perhaps Republicans should emulate your measured, nuanced, “come let us reason together” style of discourse.
Let me remind you that they are speaking about human beings. A human being is neither legal, nor illegal, they are simply human beings.
That’s meaningless sophistry. Indignation content high, intellectual content, zero.
A human being is either in the United State legally or illegally, whether you care to “stand for it” or not. To point out the distinction dehumanizes no one — it merely points out whether a human being is in the U.S. legally or illegally.
Are you going to argue the law is meaningless?
“A human being is neither legal, nor illegal, they are simply human beings.”
Wow!… And you claim that you have brains?… No mushed potatoes in your head?… Sean?
For you information, when therm illegal or legal is used it refers to a status of the human being…. Not the person!
Do you have Santa Ana education Sean?
Was your teacher Sal?
Why don’t all you posters beating up on the “illegal” immigrants go after the “illegal” employers with the same zest and bravado . You apparently are severe law and order guys . Apply your anger against those breaking the law across the board . Support sweeps and put “illegal” businesse owners and your “illegal” neighbors in jail – expose yourselves to them like you do when protesting against the undocumented . The Republican business membership plays a large part in producing the market for cheap labor . Clean your house first . Oh , I forgot it is politics for some , hate for others that drives this issue . Those of us that speak out against your venom do so to bring objectivity to the issue , not to support criminal acts . Every issue and problem has some humanity consideration in it’s evaluation . To disregard the humanity aspect of a problem is “meaningless sophistry. Indignation content high, intellectual content zero”. Lastly , it is difficult to have reasonable, informed debate on immigration when the distinction between legal and illegal-criminal employers(post #36 contribution) is ignored and when undocumented immigration is simplistically ,stupidly and disingeuously criticized while ignoring the complexity of the issue. This is great debate , you guys are coming out of the wood work .
Sean – Of course they are human’s…lol. What does that have to do with being here illegally?
Sean,
I am sorry that post 42 slipped by me. I have deleted about 20 versions of that post. It is a low blow to go after your mom like that.
Listen folks – if you have a problem with Sean, post it and I assure you he will respond. If you want to attack his mom, use your name. Otherwise we will know you are just a scared loser.
Art,
This is typical behavior from the “usual suspects”. I responded and then thought better of it and deleted my response. They aren’t worth my time if they haven’t got the courage to put their name to their attacks.
I also deleted their post in which they took creative liberties in regards to a situation that took place in 1992.
If they want to attack me, my Mom or my recently deceased Father they can go right ahead and do it, they just better put their name to their remarks.
I never shy away from what I say. However, if they want to attack my family, they shouldn’t shy away from their remarks either.
Art
Let me see if I understand the double standard at this blog.
Sean can rail on without mercy and without end at whomever he pleases regarding his perception of their bigotry and intolerance.
His sainted mother however, is off limits to any of us who witnessed, what did Sean call it, the situation in 1992
Mel Lawsen
Mel,
So you “witnessed” the 1992 incident? That’s great! Perhaps you can give a detailed account of what happened that night.
Before you do that, why don’t you tell us a little about yourself.
Do you live in Santa Ana?
You aren’t a homeowner in the city, unless like Tim Rush you can’t own a house in your name so it is in someone elses name, so are you a renter that belonged to a neighborhood association?
No back to the night in 1992, where did the incident take place?
Who were the parties involved?
Please Mel, give us all the info you have. After all you “witnessed” what happened and should be able to provide all with the facts.
Since you were a witness, you obviously remember that my Mother was the person who was physically assaulted and refused to press charges that evening. Of course you do, because you “witnessed” it.
Mel I look forward to reading your eye “witness” account of that night and also learning more about you. I too was there that night and I don’t recall a “Mel Lawsen” being there. But I am sure you will refresh my memory.
Do me another favor Mel, explain what my Mother has to do with anything. I am sure you will.
Take care Mel. Oh, by the way, nobody said my Mother was a “saint”, but thanks for thinking so.