A Santa Ana resident saved his neighbor from a raging fire – before the firemen arrived, according to an OC Register article. This story proves once more that anyone can be a hero in the right circumstances, if he or she is resolute and cares about others.
I inadvertently set off a raging debate here at the Orange Juice this week when I wrote in support of new OC Supervisor John Moorlach, regarding his comments about the OC public employees union’s attempts to bankrupt our county with their greedy demands for better and better pensions.
Bottom line – taxpayers should not have to pay for firemen and policemen to retire at the young age of 55. Nor should these public servants expect to make six figures – at least not until they have been plying their trade for some time.
Don’t get me wrong, I have great admiration for what firemen and policemen do – I just don’t think they ought to be allowed to bankrupt our city and county governments in the process.
In Santa Ana the local fire and police unions spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to elect council members who will do what they tell them to. That backfired this year when two of “their” candidates were defeated. Now they are going nuts trying to figure out how to buy off the new council members. It is sickening.
The firemen also walked precincts for “their” candidates and they drove around in an old fire truck festooned with political banners.
I for one am sick and tired of these over-paid special interests trying to influence, if not outright control, our elections. Enough! They need to stick do to doing their jobs and let the voters figure out who to vote for.
It has been suggested by numerous anon posters that firemen and policemen deserve to make hundreds of thousands of dollars and retire at 55 because of the hazards they face. The industry that has the most fatal accidents, in California, is not related to either fire fighting or police work. Agricultural workers face the most accidents and most fatalities. And they make pennies compared to what firemen and policemen earn.
Construction workers also face hazards every single day. And while some of them do quite well for themselves, many others don’t.
How can we value firemen, etc., more than doctors and nurses, teachers, ministers, farmers, construction workers, and the like? My point is that we all do important work – and without our tax dollars there is NO MONEY for public union workers.
Certainly professionals who face high hazards should be well-compensated, but all too often they are not. With the exception of public workers who are quite well paid. It is not fair.
As for the argument that firemen and policemen cannot do what they do by the time they are 55, can’t they then do inspection work, training, and management/administration? Give me a break! We all get older – and we all adjust accordingly. The difference is that most of us will never get to retire, while our friends in the fire department, moreso than police officers, will retire at 55 and spend the rest of their long lives counting their money while the rest of us wonder why our city and county governments don’t have the money to pave our roads, fix our parks, and keep our libraries open.
How many doctors, nurses, teachers, ministers, farmers, construction workers and the like rushed into the twin towers.
If you can do better, fight for a pay increase instead of trying to drag others down.
“I for one am sick and tired of these over-paid special interests trying to influence, if not outright control, our elections.”
You mean like the overly-profitable oil industry that killed Prop 87?
I’d like to see some figures on the city budget and whether the city is going bankrupt because of too many fire fighters and police getting paid too much. But I take your point about agricultural workers low pay. How many firefighters will get to eat if the ag workers all vanished? And you are right about how hazardous ag work is. At least the Dept of Labor agrees. But the big difference here is that firefighters have a strong union and ag workers do not. It’s the old union motto: “together we bargain, divided we beg.”
“together we bargain, divided we beg.”
I always thought it was the other way around.
Actually Art, you have it wrong. Cops and firefighters can retire at age 50 with nearly 100% of their highest yearly salary for LIFE. Sure, they have dangerous jobs, but so do a lot of other folks. Your standard-issue firefighter can earn well over $100k a year with overtime. Remember, they get paid to sleep, go grocery shopping, lift weights and play basketball, and play with their trucks and toys. 95% of the calls they go on are medical related, not fire related. Many firefighters have side jobs or second careers. The next time you hear firefighters claim poverty, drive by a firestation and check out all the $40k pick-up trucks you see in the parking lot.
I know it sounds terrible to say this, but 9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to the fire service. Fire departments around the country looking to bankrupt the cities and counties they work for with overly generous benefits, point to all the brave fire fighters who died in the towers. They use that as their rallying cry for more money.
Cops are just as bad. They too are earning well into the six figures with overtime and all of their little pay incentives. They must have two dozen different pay incentives for specialized duties, education, etc. Overtime is the golden calf – everytime they claim they are fighting crime by busting prostitutes or petty dope dealers, they are all working on overtime, padding their paychecks. It’s a scam.
Oh well, cops and firefighters can retire at 50 with great benefits, but they are usually dead by the time they’re 60. Enjoy it while you can boys!
Hey Art. How many old firefighters do you want to put into desk jobs doing inspections and clerical work? Your idea would evolve into a force that would dramatically increase the number of personnel working for the city.
Your idea would ultimately bankrupt the city much quicker than the status quo.
As the other anon poster details in his ignorance. He makes it sound like firefighters and police just sit around all day laughing at the tax payer paying the bill. I would like to know his vast level of experience of riding around in a black and white or a fire engine. I bet the amount of experience they have rhymes with “none”. And as such I will take his comments accordingly.
They can retire at 50, but only if they have a certain number of years in on the job.
As for getting paid to play basketball, is that part of their ongoing physical fitness requirement, as are other work-out activities they must do every shift?
Yes, they do get paid to go shopping for their food. Because they work a 24 hour shift and pay for/prepare all their meals. The City does not pay for their groceries.
And yes, they get paid to sleep. But they also have to respond to all calls for service, and many of them come in during the night. It is not unusual for them to be up all night.
You also said many of them have side jobs. If they are making the huge amounts of money everyone thinks, why do they need side jobs?
So Art’s plan is to arm your neighbors with long hoses.
According to the REgister Newspaper, it took 30 firefighters to put out this house fire in about 15 minutes. WOW! This says it all. TOO MUCH TIME ON THEIR HANDS AND NOTHING TO DO EXCEPT HAVE 30 PERSONNEL RESPOND TO 1 HOUSE FIRE.
I witnessed paramedics respond to my neighbors call and there were 8 personnel that responded. One guy took information. Two paramedics tended to my neighbor and one gave supervision. I really don’t think it was necessary to have an additional four standing around picking their noses. Yes, two of them picked their noses.
Sure they really deserve overinflated pensions for standing around.
11:34
I asked a friend of mine who is a firefighter about why so many people show up for what looks like a routine medical call.
As usual your ignorance is apparent. They show up assuming the worst. Which is referred to a full arrest. One where the patient stops breathing and heart stops beating. When that happens the paramedics become a portable emergency room with all the equipment and personnel needed to do a proper job of trying to resuscitate a patient. I’ve seen code blues in hospitals and I can assure you there are more than just two people trying to save a patient’s life.
I’ve never fought a house fire. Have you? I would rather there be too many firefighters than too few.
But I’m just weird that way.
To 3:03.
How do you know how many firefighters are too many?
Could it be they didn’t leave because they come together in the same unit? Could it be that some in that unit were needed while others weren’t?
And how do you know that 30 firefighters for one house is too many? How many house fires have you battled? From what my buddy tells me I now know that just because they are at one locale doesn’t stop them from being available for another call at another location if they aren’t needed during the present.
Like I said. Your ignorance on the matter shines like a klieg light in a darkroom.
… why didn’t they leave? …
Like I said. Maybe some from their unit was required for a specific task and they all travel together.
I wasn’t there. While I don’t know specifics, neither do you. You’re making observations based upon partial knowledge.
Don’t get your panties in a wad. I’m only sharing my perspective. Don’t take it so personal.
A majority of city/county officials elected in OC have always been Republicans – these are who negotiated or approved the contracts with the various Fire Fighter Unions. Why doesn’t Art want to elect more fiscally responsible and conservative Democrats?
Elroy El,
Are they feed you dog food?
-Stan
Why is the conventional wisdom to tear down and take away because you don’t make as much or get as many benefits.
I say everyone should organize. Let’s start lifting the boats up. We all have a better chance of rising.
i’m with “demmother”… let’s all organize! But i’m also thinking about the 18 comments that are here debating about whether 30 firefighters is too much and i’m reminded of the old joke formula: how many ____ does it take to ____. Question is how many bloggers does it take to identify a red herring?
Art, you have been asked this question several times but have never responded. What do you think the compensation and benefit package of cops and firefighters should be?
demmother stated: I say everyone should organize. Let’s start lifting the boats up. We all have a better chance of rising.
Just like Maxism Leninism! Lets all get money from the government!
Why the government workers do not join private sector if they want more money. In the private sector the sky is limit.
-Stan
Poster 20,
Go to California Employment Statistics, and see for yourself what folks are making in Orange County. Firefighters make just a hair less than civil engineers. It is amazing however that they make more than microbiologists, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, social workers, cardiovascular technicians and safety technicians.
The real issue here is that they ought not be retiring at either 50 or 55 – if they are not fit for duty at that age they ought to quit and find a job they can do. Isn’t that what will happen to the rest of us?
the real hero in the story are the neighbors. They are school teachers. Do teacher get 100% at 50? I think not.
Art,
You referenced military personnel earlier. They retire early as well. Collecting pensions at 20 years of service regardless of age. Should the same go for firefighters and police officers? The majority of military personnel never see combat. Even during wartime.
Agent Orange is making personnel attacks. It only proves his (or hers) points have no merit. And as such don’t require any further response.
Firefighters don’t determine how many folks are dispatched to calls. There is a protocol established by governing agencies that makes that determination.
If there is a house fire, enough people are dispatched to deal with different potential circumstances. One of which is to make certain the fire doesn’t spread to the homes nearby. And some of the firefighters there are paramedics. They are sent to give medical aid to anyone hurt and to be there in case a firefighter is hurt.
Once a determination is made that things are under control, some fire fighters are sent back to their stations, or dispatched to other calls.
Medical aid calls are handled the same way. Enough people are sent to deal with a worst case situation that requires a number of people to do different things. If the situation is not that bad, some are sent back to the stations. But only after they are comfortable that the patient is stable and can be safely transported.
Sometimes, in a bad situation, the 2 paramedics have to be in the back of the transport van, so a firefighter drives to the hospital. That firefighter’s team follows so they can pick him/her up and return to their stations with a full crew.
You also need to know that there is a difference between a fire engine and a fire truck. They have different functions and different equipment. Their crews have different responsibilities at a fire.
Some may be standing around because their job begins after the flames are out. They go in to do various tasks to make certain there is no fire still burning in attic or crawl spaces…and they take down ceilings/walls that are damaged and do a number of other things.
They can also be assigned to stay at a location overnight to make certain the fire doesn’t flare up again.
How do I know this? A quick call to my local fire department got me the answers. Perhaps some of you should make that call too. It would give you some factual information about “why” you have seen different things.
Art,
I will ask again since you still have not answered the question.
What in your opinion is the proper compensation and benefits package for a police officer or firefighter?
Agent Orange –
Call it whatever you want; it is the right thing to do and everybody benefits. Everyone should do their part to better our communities.
BTW: my understanding of Government was We the People (I bet thats too Socialistic for you as well)