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At 5:30 tomorrow in Fountain Valley, the largely Poseidon-besotted Orange County Water District will once again consider approving the new renegotiated term sheet for the proposed $1 billion Huntington Beach desalination plant (which this blog has been fighting for over a decade.) Over the last few weeks, our friends at Residents For Responsible Desalination (R4RD) have been printing, one at a time, the top three reasons that any sensible Water Board would reject this term sheet. Here are the top three reasons:
Reason 1
(From the OCWD Staff report for June 6, 2018) “The rate OCWD pays Poseidon Resources for water would no longer be indexed to the MWD water supply rate. The District would pay Poseidon’s documented cost of service along with an agreed to return on equity. The new approach is modeled after the San Diego County Water Authority and Poseidon Resources agreement to construct and operate the Carlsbad Ocean Desalination Facility.”
Comments: Poseidon’s “cost of service” has not as yet been documented for public review and its “return on equity” has not as yet been determined. If the San Diego County WA / Poseidon agreement is the model, does that mean we, as ratepayers, should be prepared for desal water to cost in excess of $2,400/ac-ft. and climbing?
Pretty great deal for Poseidon. They get guaranteed profit. We get guaranteed rate increase. Over 30 years that could be well over a Billion Dollars.
Reason 2
(From the OCWD Staff report for June 6, 2018) “The District would assume the risk for electricity rate increases. Under the 2015 Term Sheet, Poseidon was taking on this risk. This represents a philosophical change in how to deal with future electricity rate increases for the following reasons:
- “Allocating this risk onto Poseidon was not free. Poseidon would have had to charge OCWD a higher rate due to this cost exposure.
- “With OCWD agreeing to pay the actual cost of electricity, the District should be able to negotiate a slightly lower overall rate for the water. If future electricity prices do increase excessively, it will impact the entire water industry and many water supply sources.
- “Power cost have remained flat or even decreased in recent years. Under the 2015 Term Sheet, this scenario would have resulted in additional profit for Poseidon.”
Comments: According to the new terms they are working on, it will be the rate payers paying for any increased costs for electricity. So much for modeling on the San Diego agreement where Poseidon has to pay for increases in electricity rates, which has severely eaten into Poseidon’s Carlsbad profits. According to a Pacific Institute report, the cost of electricity is 55% of the cost of desalinating seawater. So even a slight increase in electric rate can dramatically affect the cost of desal water as Poseidon has discovered in Carlsbad.
Reason 3
(From the OCWD Staff report for June 6, 2018) “The District would retain the lead role in developing all aspects of the distribution plan. However, there is now an option to have Poseidon Resources take responsibility for financing and constructing facilities distributing potable water to the District, Producers and other retail water agencies. With this option, Poseidon would coordinate the timing of constructing the treatment plant with constructing the distribution facilities to serve potable water to customers.
“This would relieve the District from the responsibility and financial obligation of ensuring these distribution facilities are constructed on time to take water once the desalination treatment plant is complete. The District would retain the discretion of purchasing the distribution system constructed by Poseidon once it is operating.
“The District would not be obligated to take any water from Poseidon until agreements are executed with participating agencies who want to receive the water and the actual distribution facilities were constructed to distribute the water. If the District opts to have Poseidon finance and construct the distribution system, then the final unit cost of water paid to Poseidon would be adjusted.”
Comments: In total, this convoluted claim by OCWD Staff is troubling. OCWD still does not know where the desal water will end up or how the desal water is to be distributed. By Staff’s past public presentations, the desal distribution (or delivery) system would cost between $100Million and $400 Million to design and construct. As to where the desal water is to go, is OCWD going to sell the water? If so, to whom and by what means? How is this to be done when OCWD cannot give the public any assurance of even the cost of Poseidon water, or the cost of distributing it? Staff presents above where “the final unit cost of water paid to Poseidon would be adjusted.” Adjusted by how much?
There are a lot of expensive pipelines and systems to be built to distribute all that water. But so far, no one knows where the water is going or who is going to build all those pipeliness. Does that sound like a good business deal? Tell them NO tomorrow!
Join R4RD… Wed. July 18, 2018 at 5:30
Orange County Water District Headquarters
Ward & Ellis
Fountain Valley, CA
P.S. And now Surf City Voice is reporting that R4RD is asking OCWD board and staff to postpone consideration of this term sheet pending an “investigation” of the possibly illegal use of “ad hoc” committees to negotiate this deal. Stay tuned… or better yet, see you Tuesday evening in Fountain Valley! And let’s not give up until this water god slinks away in shame…
Just SOME of our Previous Coverage of Poseidon:
- HB Council Respectfully Asks Coastal Commission to Shitcan Poseidon. (July 2013)
- Poseidon Runs Headlong into Infiltration Gallery (report on Nov 2013 Coastal Commission hearing)
- Poseidon’s Water Boy: Matt Harper Quietly Pushes Desal Scam Past Ratepayers. (May 2014)
- OCWD’s Sheldon Clams Up on Poseidon Vote, Flory Shakes Things Up! (June 2014)
- Who owns the OCWD, you or Poseidon? YOU DO! Remind them, tonight! (June 2014)
- Unpacking Poseidon’s Latest Propaganda Blitz with Debbie Cook. Pt 1: The CNN Puff Piece. (June 2014)
- Recent Poseidon-Probolsky Push-Poll Threatens Candidates and Misleads Voters. (Nov. 2014)
- Sheldon’s Unethical Culture Challenged by Legal Complaint (Dec. 2014)
- Poseidon & OCWD Bring their Snake-Oil Show to the Pumpers Tomorrow (Dec. 2014)
- Surfin’ Sheldon, Little Lost Dina, Righteous Flory – What You’ve Been Missing at OCWD! (Jan. 2015)
- Poseidon Update: OCWD “just sticks the tip in…” (Jan. 2015)
- Sheldon Says “Suck it Surf City!” The Poseidon Shill is also Behind our High Density Development. (Feb. 2015)
- OCWD’s Forecast for the Future: Cloudy with a Huge Chance of Error. (March 2015)
- Pat Bates Baits Us with Bogus Doomsday Drought Scenario. (March 2015)
- Swan Song for Poseidon? A Blast of Truth from Irvine’s Peer Swan. (March 2015)
- Cage Rattled Hard, OCWD Dons Fig Leaf Before Marrying Poseidon. (April 2015)
- Our Celebrated Groundwater Replenishment System Steals Poseidon’s Lunch Money. (April 2015)
- OCWD profile #1: Phil Anthony, the Quiet Skeptic. (April 2015)
- Showdown at the OCWD Corral Nears, R4RD launches Volley. (May 2015)
- The Poseidon Adventure Sails On! (May 2015)
- Dina Nguyen Stands Up Garden Grove, Skips Fascinating Poseidon Forum. (May 2015)
- Will OCWD be Shipwrecked by Mermaids? (June 2015)
- Cathy Green Falsely Carries Poseidon Water to Coastal Commission (June 2015)
- Watch Poseidon Joke over Proposed Property Tax Increase to fund their “Privately Funded” Desal Project. (July 2015)
- Bao Stands for Garden Grove Against Poseidon, the rest of Council Waffles. (July 2015)
- Phan is the Man – who Stopped this and Needs to Start it Again! (July 2015)
- OC Can Do Desal Better – Use Salt to Lock Up CO2 Emissions. (August 2015)
- San Diego Has Too Much Water – but is Paying $1 Billion for Their Poseidon Plant. (Dec. 2015)
- Poseidon Progress Report: Eight Ways to Screw the Public. (Feb. 2016)
- Why the Coastal Commission Will Approve Poseidon. (April 2016)
- Poseidon in denial over the obstacles ahead, and more… (May 2016)
- Dispatches from the Battle Against Poseidon, Summer 2016 (July 2016)
- Poseidon Plays the Race Card, LULAC Dances to their Tune. (July 2016)
- Fullerton Reaches its Day of Decision on Poseidon (Jan. 2017)
- OCWD Tonight: Replenish the Aquifer with the Winter’s Fabulous Snows! (April 2017)
- John Earl: The Ideological War Behind Poseidon. (August 2017)
- How Stoopid Does Poseidon Think This County is Anyway? (Jan. 2018)
- OCWD Blocks Study of Alternatives to Poseidon, Misleading Coastal Commission. (Feb. 2018)
- Poseidon-Obsessed OCWD will Try to Ram Billion-Dollar Desal Project Down Our Throats. (June 2018)
- Excellent Comments for Poseidon Term-Sheet Meeting: Hamilton, Everts, Moshiri, Hiemstra (June 2018)
- Climate Change could Swamp Billion-Dollar Desal Deal (June 2018)
- Top Three Reasons Poseidon’s New Term Sheet SHOULD Have Been Rejected July 18 (July 2018)
- Important Poseidon Updates – Video of Wednesday’s meeting, and who’s running for OCWD? (July 2018)
- Poseidon’s Voodoo Math; and Klepto Kris Murray named to powerful Water Board (December 2018)
- Let’s put Poseidon out of its misery this year: Latest reports from the Front Line. (February 2019)
- New OCWD Director Kelly Rowe’s ALTERNATIVE to Poseidon. (August 2019)
IF we need it — AND we don’t — we should build it ourselves.
Guarantee OURSELVES that BILLION-DOLLAR PROFIT, not these vampires from the wrong coast.
Who are the people representing Anaheim, Fullerton, and Santa Ana again? They need to get calls and emails on this. Surely the people trying to shovel money at them are in contact with them tonight.
I got good peeps from Anaheim and Fullerton representing us – Vanderbilt and Whitaker. Good on this, anyway.
The sellouts are Cathy Green of HB, Bilodeau of Orange, Dewane of Costa Mesa, Dingy Dina of Garden Grove, and Sheldon of NB. Santa Ana’s Sarmiento hasn’t been too dependable either.
Yeesh. Sarmiento certainly should not want to be caught dead in that kind of dreadful company.
*Hey, Government? Hmmm. How about this: How bout that Donald Bren or Tony Moisio? Whatever their faults…..that actually get things done. Brutally sometimes, but you can’t argue that they are holding back the society! Has anyone asked them where they stand on Desal? Don’t you think that might be an interesting answer?
Come on people, the Toll Roads are the biggest rip off in American History, like Used Italian Rifles in WWII, never fired only dropped once! Inefficient, sub-adequate construction…..that’s the Toll Road Game. Buy, Sell, Buy, Sell….until
the rates are outrageous. Where is your outrage on that issue? Remember the
91, 73 and the coming extension of the 241? Anyway, ask those with skin in the game on Desal……the real players that is and we will stand with their assessments!
“Those with skin in the game on desal?”
That’s us, dummies. Everyone living in the OC Water District. From Fullerton and Anaheim down to Seal Beach, Irvine, and CORONA DEL MAR.
WE would have to pay for it.
Guess Chairman Vern, you would have to live on Newport Coast
to grasp the concept of need, convenience and a who the hell cares
who pays for it mentality!. Call Bob Costas and ask him…..or Kobe
or any of the Big Rollers on the Highway to Heaven. Bad water? What
you want the folks that live on Newport Coast to be the next victim of
our water is on fire…here in Flint?
One of the major causes enabling the Flint catastrophe concerned inadequate change management related to an engineering analysis concerning process conditions of decades old pipe.
More plainly, switching the water type inside the pipe caused lead to leach from old welds.
Since you’re such a freaking genius, guess what happens when RO water gets pumped through 75 year old carbon steel pipes whose life has been dedicated to hard water?
This is a terrible freaking idea, Ships. One day you’ll figure that out.
A giant sucking sound?
*Yeah….that’s our beautiful Fountain Valley Reclaim in Gold Station House,
pumping water through those pipes to the Water Tower above Newport Beach and them to the seawater barrier….hold back the brackish water from our water tables. Yep, hard to get a quarter haircut anymore! They tried plastic…which broke and leached chemicals into the water supply…..they tried lining with teflon and that was really bad for baby formula. Oh well, let’s just drink straight Sea Water. We can go down to the beach, with a #5 Coffee can and fill up our old Plastic Gas Cans from the ’70’s. We can drink that stuff and flush our toilets, and take showers and make our rice with that water. We get it…..move to Fresno where are the fertilizer goes right into you kitchen from the Central Valley Jonathan Livingston Seagull and gnatcatcher feces
collection points.. Did someone say INFRASTRUCTURE investment….Good Grief…you’ve got to be crazy!
Great. Infrastructure investment.
Replace all the roads and water pipes in OC. Quintuple taxes.
Stroke of brilliance.
A stroke of something anyway.
Every time I see some one’s comment about this project that says, “desal” instead of the accurate, “Poseidon” it is very obvious they are not informed. One more time…
POSEIDON is the proposed project. Not “desal” in general. POSEIDON is a very bad deal for rate payers and the company has a bad history and poor performance record. POSEIDON is what is being discussed and pushed. NOT DESAL IN GENERAL.
One more time: NOT DESAL. There have never been any meetings, investigations, research etc. on the need for “desal” in general. Only for “POSEIDON”. Only to push, push, push this particular sub par company on the rate paying public.
That’s pretty fair and I agree.
This specific operator and this specific contract are both abysmal.
OCWD pays $0.042/kWh for its electricity according to OCWD executive in email to me. The proposed rate of $0.086/kWh that OCWD pays for the Poseidon plant is a profit center for someone. BTW the $0.042/kWh is contracted until 2021 between OCWD and SCE.
METRICS: 50MGD is about 293 GWhs (804,924 kWh/day) of electricity or about $12.9M in profits. Is this accounted for? Why is OCWD or someone(s) profiting? Why would’nt OCWD pass along its sweetheart rate for Poseidon.
True as OCWD would take on Poseidon’s 293GWh/year, SCE would charge a larger demand charge so let’s adjust that $13M in uncharted profits down 10% to $11.8M in uncharted profits.
I want to know.
*We truly love the “it’s way too expensive” argument…on just about everything. We can’t help the Homeless (They have to help themselves..first…..OK, but now we can’t afford it…..way too expensive to take half a million dollars out of the General Fund to supply Andy Gump Portable Toilets…for the entire year!). Same game on water quality. Hmmm. Yep, the rates back in 1970 were great here in Orange County. We had Toilet Paper pieces floating out of our tap water! If you had anyindoor plants you wanted to live…you had to feed them “Bottled Water”? Good Grief, “Bottled Water” from Bastanchury or Sparkletts or the really high priced Arrowhead Spring Water? The point is that getting a haircut for $1.25 plus appropriate tip…..is pretty far gone today. The $3000 dollar car off the showroom floor…is pretty darn gone too! The $1.25 a gallon for 101 White Pump Chevron or Sunnoco is long gone too! Water? Throw your money on the grass and see how long it takes to grow? You guys want higher inflation for your Homes and Business….don’t you? But you don’t want to pay to fix 100 year old water systems and roads and electrical stuff to put underground? Nah, what do you need all that stuff for anyway? “If it was good enough for my, it’s good enough for my kids…..cause they are really lazy!” So, in answer to all those wonderful budgetary HAWKS, trying save Government and Taxpayers bundles of money….while sticking some of those wonderous Junkets to Hawaii for the important meetings to do this: 6 – 2 was the vote yesterday. Donald Bren and Tony Moisio made the call and we are damn proud of them for doing so!
Expensive and UNNECESSARY.
This desalinated water is too expensive and WE DON’T NEED IT.
We continue to be baffled at why you’re dying to enrich this (now-Canadian) hedge fund Poseidon instead of joining the rest of us in telling them to GO HOME AND LEAVE US ALONE.
A Pacific Institute study, Desalination, With a Grain of Salt, found there were roughly 2,000 desalination plants larger than 300,000 gallons per day operating in the United States as of 2005 when industrial plants are figured in.Aug 21, 2013
U.S. Desalination Industry Grows Since 2000; Seen as Essential to …
https://www.bna.com/us-desalination-industry-n17179876105/\
Yeah, a lot of stupid people out there in America. We only have 2000 plus
Desal plants working just fine in the old US of A. By the way, everything is always for sale…..why? Because, if there is a profit to be made people like The Trumpster to try to make a deal.
ALSO the US Department of Energy recented granted $21M to 14 technology providers to create ways to deliver desalinated water at $0.50 cubic foot. That works out to about $600.acre foot. Poseidon is projecting to sell water at $2,400/acre foot – 4 times more.
if we don’t need the water in a desperate way in 2018, 2019, 2020 – let’s nix this Poseidon deal in 2018 and see how this $21M in DOE grants produces ways to get desalinated water to a rate far below $1,500/acre foot.
Can’t we wait a few years for a better mouse trap with a better company?
Yeah, we could wait a few years for a better mouse trap with a better company, or we could even get that now if we wanted to.
But studies have shown (I’ll have to look it up again) that OC has enough water for the next 35 years. “What about after 35 years?” you may ask. That’s as far ahead as such studies look.
believe me – you are preaching to the choir.
But if we expect them to accept our assumptions of resiliency of water supplies based on projections going forward more than a few years, I think they could easily discount the argument that we put forward.
I want to put forward other arguments that they might adjust their position because of, when the long standing valid points you make exist already.
So … it’s almost 7:30. Is there a verdict?
It went forward despite
HUNDREDSDOZENS of dissidents speaking.Six FOR – Green, Sheldon, Dewane, Nguyen, Bilodeau, Smarmiento.
Two AGAINST – Yoh, Whitaker.
One ABSTAIN – Vanderbilt. Is he afraid of Poseidon throwing money at Brandman? They’ll do it anyway, they always have. I gotta talk to him again.
Phil Anthony, a great Poseidon critic, ABSENT. Not surprising, he’s gotta be nearing 100 years old. WE NEED MORE YOUNG FIGHTERS.
Next, I gotta look into whose terms are up for re-election this November.
Meanwhile John Earl has some possible good news: The relatively honest MUNICIPAL WATER DISTRICT of OC is going to undertake what OCWD has long promised and never done: conduct a study of ALTERNATIVES to the very expensive Poseidon project. As their Assistant General Manager told John, “I think a big point to make with OCWD is that nobody has examined the ‘need’ for the project”
Good story… http://www.surfcityvoice.com/2018/07/municipal-water-district-will-study-poseidon-desal-alternatives/
Just look at that list. I don’t know why I still feel disappointed in Sarmiento at this point. As for Vanderbilt, he should realize that he does himself no good by rolling up into a ball like a political armadillo.
Couldn’t help but notice Vince cozying up to the Surfrider guyz. Must be a shot at some legal work or rent.
If he has wanted to cozy up to the Surfrider guys he’s doing it wrong.
Noticed phony Maloni baloney take a jab at Erik Peterson (who outstandingly spoke out against the project at the OCWD meeting) on HBCF last night. Not exactly a graceful “winner”.
He quickly retreated when he realized what a fumble that was on a forum that is chock full of Peterson fans. Daly says that Maloni is essentially a good guy doing a job. In fairness to Daly I am sure Maloni IS wonderful to him. Because he needs him. Maloni wants desperately to continue to get a non-resident pass and stay in that facebook group. But those who Maloni deems unimportant, non influential, common folk receive the full spectrum of his crappy attitude, condescending manner, quick temper etc. That remark about, Erik? That was the REAL Scott Maloni briefly popping out of his fake persona. Don’t be fooled.
GUARANTEE he goes after Peterson and Sterud (Thank you Ron! Excellent job speaking at the OCWD) behind the scenes. Maybe through the safety screen of the political contributions he claims Poseidon doesn’t make (PAC, much?) and proxies.
Thank you to everyone who attended the meeting! And Ron and Erik you won this voter over. Now PLEASE carry through and come to the Coastal Commission hearing.
For those of you just beginning to experience the disrespectful, ugly building manifesting (Elan), narcoleptic in the face of rate payers, soda swilling, dinner eating, room leaving, jerky comment making, rude AF spectacle of Steve Sheldon:
https://www.facebook.com/Steve-Sheldon-Watch-666968783399363/
There’s LOTS of info out there. Doesn’t even take a deep dive. Just a quick google. Get acquainted. Then get sick to your stomach this person represents the public
Lots of it on this blog.
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2015/02/sheldon-says-suck-it-surf-city-the-poseidon-shill-is-also-behind-our-high-density-development-1/
or http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2015/01/poseidon-update-ocwd-just-sticks-the-tip-in/ (Scroll down to “Steve Sheldon’s Pet Peeves.”)
It seemed like everytime we saw him his face was redder, so we just took to representing him as a pomegranate.
I never liked that comparison. Pomegranates are less seedy.
Haha! Good one! OJB has excellent reporting on this project and the unsavory characters in the mix. The following description when Scott won a 2015 scariest people position from OC Weekly is pretty accurate also:
“SCOTT MALONI
Anyone who has ever attended a meeting related to the Poseidon desalination project in Huntington Beach has seen company vice president Scott Maloni stalking the aisles in his heavily shoulder-padded navy blazer and khakis, rubbing elbows with political allies such as Orange County Water District President Cathy Green. Doesn’t ring a bell? He’s the rude, really short guy with a smarmy smile who likes to talk through his opponents’ presentations, scoffing whenever someone says Orange County doesn’t need the water . . . which it doesn’t. Most unpleasant San Diegan to invade the county since Congressman Darrell Issa.
Mitigating factor: Did you know OC saved the yearly equivalent of three Poseidon plants’ worth of water since Governor Jerry Brown enacted his cutbacks? Barely hurt, huh?”
Noticed that Maloni posted a public comment that the project will not in fact actually increase the amount of water available here (something John Earl has been explaining for years). And Maloni denied that HDD is in any way linked to the desal plants. RIGHT. The lamer real estate agents, greedy developers and related building industries support it just for fun! You MUST SHOW AN ADDITIONAL WATER SOURCE/SUPPLY on paper (I am looking at you south county. WE in HB have aquifers) Here’s just one article on the connection between development (in arguably areas that cannot sustain it with their own resources. See also the Cadiz project and south county’s desire to steal water from under the desert).
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/07/us/07drought.html
The Carlsbad plant is now up for sale (also predicted) So all that corporate welfare and tax payer money spent so that those clowns could cash out. It’s like money laundering corporate welfare style. How is it possible that allegedly conservative people support this project in HB, again? And how will this impact the future cost to rate payers in San Diego? And BTW the plant ain’t worth a billion. The plant on it’s own ain’t worth anything. It’s the money to be made by the future contracts fleecing rate payers with no choice or control in buying the very expensive water. It’s not like they are going to bottle and export it. And for Poseidon the money is in getting all the government bill footing etc. and then reaping the profits and bailing. leaving a coastal eyesore, environmental disaster and a whole county paying a lot more for their water bill every month for THIRTY YEARS.
At least get your stats straight….that is the least you can do.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534996/megascale-desalination/
Desalination – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination
Desalination is a process that extracts mineral components from saline water. More generally … Desalination is used on many seagoing ships and submarines. … 2015, 18,426 desalination plants operated worldwide, producing 86.8 million cubic ….. The board of directors of Tampa Bay Water was forced to buy the plant from …