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The fundamentals of society sometime get lost in translation! As Donald Trump rants on about how “The System is rigged!”, the big lie has been laid upon the table: “We want one man one vote!” Nelson Mandala said that too! “Let’s see, we have millions of black people and about 10% rich white folks!” This is indeed the basis for “Democracy Rule”. This concept is indeed the idea that everyone should have a vote! Everyone should vote! Everyone has the responsibility in society to vote! In cave man times, the leader was chosen by democratic votes of the tribe or clan. Women and children could vote, but could be killed for taking such action in the presence of a brutal “pretender to the throne” or a brutal current leader. Perhaps, this is where they came up with the thought: “Speak up, if you’ve got a pair!” Society was based upon a strong leader who could protect or lead others against the beasts, other tribes and the natural forces of nature.
The Greeks took this system up a notch and created meeting places for folks to gather after they had tended their crops or stores and made their thoughts on laws and their leaders public. Wrongs were voiced as well as Rights! The Greek Gods were honored at each Holiday Festival – which were many! The terms “fate” and “faith” were created. Offerings to the Gods included food, drink, live animals and sometimes human sacrifice! The Greeks believed in intellect, founding mathematics, linguistics and the ability to communicate with great eloquence. Rulers and Leaders were chosen by the Assembly of Voters, Legacy or by the Gods! The four classes of voters included: The Soldier Class, the Landowner Class, The Farmer Class and the Slave Class. This society however was indeed dedicated to “One Man One Vote!” This was the beginning of classifying women, children and slaves as non voting property! The Greeks were governed by victorious Kings!
Then came the Roman Republics. The rich “Patrician Class” followed all the Greek concepts, but changed the Greek Gods to Roman Gods, essentially the same except but were re-named to put their own special mark on divinity! The “Patrician Class” were composed of rich landowners, rich Soldiers of Fortune and Legacy family members of the former. They created “The Roman Senate” to voice all their concerns. Some victorious soldiers became Tribune rank which allowed them to be voted on to the Senate, if the rest of the Senate agreed. The Centurions were below this rank and usually could serve in “the Roman Assembly”, along with others voted on “by the people”. The society was split between the rich “Patrician Class” and the poor or “Plebeian Class”. Balancing these two groups was overseen by either “The Dictator”, “The Emperor” or “The Self Name Divinity”. “Dictators” took office by force, “Emperors” by force and then Public acclaim, “Self proclaimed Divinity” in most cases resulted in assassination.
http://classroom.synonym.com/differences-between-democracy-republic-ancient-times-9149.html
In the words of Benjamin Franklin in 1776 when asked what had happened: “We have given you a Republic – if you can keep it!”
The “Roman Republics” were in most cases very corrupt. They were based on patronage to the rich. They were based upon a desire for more land and riches. They were based upon controlling the people through economic means. They were based upon years of wars of acquisition. They were based upon taking from the poor and giving to the rich, with tuppence left over for building infrastructure. They were based upon rank and privilege. The Roman Republics…….were truly not exactly anything but allowing others “those elected” to voice the concerns of the landowners and the poor to the Dictator or Emperor or Self Proclaimed Divinity – who made the final decisions based upon whim and fancy many times. The truth is that there have always been less rich people than poor people.
The Greek Democracies were little better except that everyone got their say! The results however were still very much controlled by the rich, the military and the politically powerful. The power of mysticism, religion and nature did greatly influence most decisions however. This was very true during the Roman Republics. The Leaders and Legions of Rome awaited “the soothsayers”, “the astrologers”, the “faith healers” many times before going into battle or leaving on a long journey. Greek Democracies and Roman Republics still overspent the public trow or rich patronage on Festivals of Bacchus/Dionysus and other religious holidays. The egos were immense and most public structures included displays of “the leaders statue” or in fact, were named buildings and structures themselves. There was no “One man One Vote” on many of these so-called “State Projects”.
The undue influence of “Special Interest Money” was very present in both the Greek Democracies and the Roman Republics. They called it “Patronage”, because it included great expenses for parties, public events and of course personal payoffs to their Senator or Member of the Assembly. Mel Brooks did a good impression of this in his movie: “History of the World Part II” – “Let’s talk like Roman Senators – ‘bullshit…bullshit..bullshit’!” Zero Mostel also did a good job in “A Funny Thing Happened on the way to the Forum?” What all this humor imbibes is that Politicians are just human beings without a lot that separates them from anyone else. Except perhaps that they have more money to spend. Other Peoples Money….that is!
The Donald Trump phenomena has exposed how uneducated people are regarding how things work in a Republic. The United States has spent 240 years diluting the concept of Representative Government. Between Citizens United, Political 501-C4’s, Off-Shore Inversions of both cash and businesses, a Volunteer Military, Political Greed and Avarice, Political Misconduct, Misrepresentations by the Political Class, Greed….(did we say that?), Globalism, Economic Globalism, The Internet, The I-Pod and basic uneducated ignorance of what a Republic really is……well folks, time to get educated in the realities of how to Create, Maintain and Direct a Republic.
In a real Republic, the people know WHO their representatives are. They know their Representatives and they related “their needs and wants” on a daily basis. Representatives on the other hand do not want to have to deal “with the people”. They want to go to fine restaurants, be invited to ego aggrandizing events, take credit for all wonderful things that happen and not respond to things that might be less tolerable. Representatives have to listen to their Political Leadership, their campaign contributors and to the businesses that employ their constituents. Representatives are the First Responders in our society. By following the Constitution they are their to Provide for the Common Defense, ensure Public Safety, ensure that our Sewers and Water Supply works, ensure that the electricity stays on and in any emergency provide additional funds that have lost through flood, fire, earthquake, natural disaster or perhaps through other catastrophic loss – such as in the World Trade Center.
The realities of a Republic sometimes differ from the ideal. Should we wonder, why for example that their are no new innovative, non invasive cures for cancer or other maladies? Should we wonder why our Representative have not made this a “Top Priority”. What about Diabetes? What about what they put in our food, our drugs, our environment in this society? Just asking. Why do we allow Big Pharma to put Drug Advertisements on television with side-effects that can kill us? Just asking? The reasons are many, but they begin with those that represent us in government. Without asking these questions, we cannot make “our priorities” known. We understand why our Representatives don’t want to have to deal with “real problems” that affect us. They want something to argue about that has nothing to do with our lives. Like, Benghazi or Hillary Clinton’s e-mails? Like, Light Rail or High Speed Rail? Like, whether the Republican party has rigged the delegate gate vote against Donald Trump? But then, how does that affect us again?
Greek Democracy vs. Roman Republic…….you chose!
Wow. The justifications that I read after the fact are stupefying.
Ever since we’ve been little tikes it’s been drilled into our heads the importance of the individual vote when deciding who will lead us. If we disagreed with the system we were told “You have a chance to change it with your vote on election day”. And that is the basis of any democracy.
A million voters were disenfranchised in the State of Colorado. The paid off establishment insiders would decide for the people which candidate would best serve their interests. Had there been an actual constituent vote there’s no way Ted Cruz would’ve been awarded every single delegate in the state. Any honest person would acknowledge that.
The Colorado GOP establishment insiders have never forced a delegate award like without a vote of the people in the history of their State. The people were always allowed to vote and their votes decided the delegate allotment. This latest ploy was concocted to specifically target one candidate. The insiders knew Donald Trump was in the race and decided to change the rules to sabotage his success. So they cancelled the vote of the people. The vote of the people be damned.
Rules can be deceitful, dishonest and used to thwart the will of the people. And that’s exactly what took place in the State of Colorado. They stole the votes of the people. The paid off insiders made the final decisions.
If representative republics were meant to choose those would sit in our highest seats of government then there would be no need for the people to vote at all. Cancel all elections. Just let a handful of the chosen few to decide for us all.
If you truly believe in democracy you would detest what took place at the recent GOP primary.
But if you allow your emotions to override your reason – you would applaud it.
You do understand the party primaries have absolutely nothing to do with democracy, right?
Then why does nearly every state take a vote of the people to decide who wins the large majority of the delegates for the presidential nomination?
The vote of the people constitutes a democracy.
We learned that in grade school civics class.
First, most states assign proportional representation based on plurality. No states assign votes based on large majority mostly because majority votes (large or small) almost never occur in primary elections.
Second, a vote of the people does not constitute a democracy.
You clearly failed grade school civics.
That’s strange.
All the major media outlets are on the edge of their seats whenever the people go to the polls and vote in the presidential primaries (ie. Super Tuesday). All wait with bated breath for the polls to close in order to learn which candidate won and will received the majority (if not all) of the delegate votes.
If a vote of the people does not constitute a democracy no reason to hold elections anymore. Why bother?
You have your wires crossed.
North Korea regularly publishes election results. The 3rd Reich held elections, as did Communist Russia.
Democracies? According to you, yes. According to the rest of us, of course not.
Look, you, per usual, have your wires crossed. The idea of pushing political parties and their rules as some sort of democracy purity test, particularly in deference to a candidate who’s running on a platform more suited to a monarch than democracy is plain sad and ignorant.
Presidential primaries are a game, and a sad little one at that. Get over it.
“North Korea regularly publishes election results. The 3rd Reich held elections, as did Communist Russia”
So you lost the argument at Step #1 so you’ve moved on to Step #2 and implied that our election results in the USA are fixed? Is that what you’re saying? That’s how I read it.
“Democracies? According to you, yes. According to the rest of us, of course not.”
Okay. Do you vote? Why are you wasting your time?
“The idea of pushing political parties and their rules as some sort of democracy purity test, particularly in deference to a candidate who’s running on a platform more suited to a monarch than democracy is plain sad and ignorant.”
Fine. Then you are seemingly anti-vote. You would rather have others vote for you rather than vote yourself. Just say it and be done. And you apparently approve of cancelling popular votes when you dislike particular candidates who millions of other people find attractive. Okay. Just say it.
“Presidential primaries are a game, and a sad little one at that. Get over it.”
Then why are you paying such close attention?
You’re the one advocating that democracy is simply taking a vote. You’re the one who’s wrong. Take it easy and read.
My point is Trump supporters, like yourself, have absolutely no moral high ground to stand on while complaining the primary system is anti democratic and rigged.
Of course it’s anti democratic! It’s a freaking political party! DUH!
Of course it’s rigged! It’s about the money, stupid!
If Trump is so pro people and democracy, he should have just run as an independent to begin with. He didn’t because he thought it wasn’t to his advantage and now that he isn’t getting what he wants, he’s pitching a hissy fit because that’s all he and his supporters know how to do.
I mean jeez, look at you. Pitching a fit right before our eyes.
So even though you state the GOP presidential primary in Colorado was anti-democratic and rigged you still approve and condone it?
So it’s okay for a candidate who you oppose to get screwed by an anti-democratic and rigged electoral system? But it would be unfair for it to happen to a candidate you do support?
And people wonder why the nation is getting flushed. 🙂
Wow, shifting the goal posts AND speaking for me in the same reply! Kudos!
In short, yes, I condone any and all screwing of Donald Trump. He simply cannot be President.
“In short, yes, I condone any and all screwing of Donald Trump. He simply cannot be President.”
Ok. So now we know where your true position. You would rather have candidates that you oppose like Trump get screwed by the electoral process rather than have fair competition and clean elections for all.
Aren’t you the one who previously used North Korea, The Third Reich and Communist Russia as examples of regimes that hold fake elections?
The flushing of America.
Again, you bastardized my point.
I didn’t say candidates I oppose LIKE Trump. I said Trump and only Trump.
Do you even know how the Communists came to power in NK?
Please wash your hands after using the restroom.
It’s pointless to continue.
Our positions are on different ends of the spectrum.
You won’t change and neither will I.
Thanks for your time.
Does Trumpfried understand that our government is a constitutionally based democratic republic ?
That’s what I learned in grade school civics, that this is not a true democracy.
That’s not true. Some Republican states are winner-take-all. All Democratic states give anyone who wins 85% of the vote all of the delegates in the state.
Ryan, I hate to say this, but I agree with Ziggy here. Democratic principles don’t control the primary election process, but it’s wrong to say that the primaries have “nothing to do” with democracy. They do — both because the parties usually WANT the voters to think that they do (except in extreme moments like this, when the masks come off) and because the people DO think that they do. That gives the electorate some leverage in demanding that the parties be more democratic than they would otherwise be inclined to be.
Greg, you’re going to have to reconcile how registering with a party before voting enhances democracy.
Hint: It doesn’t.
That’s fine. I don’t see what it has to do with my argument, but I presume that you’ll tell me.
*The land of the Smoke Filled Rooms…eh Ziggy? Yes, it goes something like this: The most powerful Committees on the Hill are: Judiciary, Finance and Rules. If you do not have voice in those Committees there is little chance you will accomplish much in any elected body. Those Committees are run by Special Interest money. They control who gets what office, down to who gets visited on Christmas….which can come on any day of the year. This is the nature of the beast and what is really awful is when members of those Committee’s which greatly affect our entire country refuse to take comments by e-mail from so-called non-constituents. These folks are slime. However, this is the process they use to filter responses to urgent issues. They simply say: “We didn’t get any mail on that!”. The issues are the same in Parlimentary Systems and the Soviet System and the Japanese System and in India, Italy,l Canada, Australia or Germany. It all goes back to Representative Governance. There are no Democracies in our Global Society. Name one Ziggy! If you have a Democracy…..there would be chaos constantly. One day the polls say this…one day the mob says: “Off with their heads…. OK Robespierre……go for it!” The following day they will be charging the Bastille
with pitchforks and torches! Liberty – Equality – Fraternity…..get it? That’s real democracy! Which they never had in France either!
If what you say is true why bother voting at all anymore? Why even take an interest in politics if everything is decided for you in advance by a handful of representatives or appointees? Just cancel all elections. Do you vote for your city council, your board of supervisors, your state assembly, your state senate, your governor, your congressman or woman, your President? If so, why are you wasting your time?
Your response made no sense to me.
I just knew I’d get instant pushback on my rational comment about Colorado stealing the will of the people.
Emotion and partisanship masked in intellect.
*Ziggy, God love ya man…..but it’s the process of Representative Governance. If you go to Greece today, you will find a so-called Democracy that in 1969 was ruled by a Military Junta/Oligarchy. In Italy, you ahve 28 different major political parties – also a so-called Democracy, served by a Parliamentary Governance. All with different rules and regulations for percentages of governance. The United States is no different. What you and Donald Trump do not understand is that “if you don’t like the rules” – find some people that can change them. This is why you have different types of leadership: Arnold was a weak Governor. Downtown Jerry Brown is a strong Governor. Pete Wilson was a Bad Governor. Gray Davis was effected by corrupt influences perhaps. Follow the money of Special Interest and you will find who you need to support or not support.
Look, you can intellectualize justification for the way the GOP insider establishment screwed Trump in Colorado all you want. But you can’t sell it to me.
This delegate award system has never been used in Colorado until now. The GOP insider establishment concocted it to specifically target Trump. Colorado has never cancelled a popular vote for a presidential primary Trump arrived on the scene. So let’s be
The integrity of the electoral system should supercede all candidates. I have complained for the longest time about the way Bernie Sanders got screwed by the democrat super delegate scam. But the Democrats never cancelled the vote of the people. Although I like Sanders there are a lot of his platforms that I oppose vigorously. Yet I remain objective and defend him.
So thank you for your follow-up comment. But it doesn’t wash with me. Right is right and wrong is wrong.
Enjoy your day.
So the big deal maker screwed up the deal in Colorado ?
Sounds like he made a bad deal with some bad people.
Why did he choose to work with an untrustworthy group ? That’s bad decision making. Doesn’t sound very presidential to me.
Honest to God, I have no idea what this is about.
The Colorado GOP insiders cancelled the popular vote for their presidential primary and all 34 delegates were awarded to Cruz without a vote of the people. A popular vote was scheduled and it was cancelled. Never happened before in the history of Colorado State.
Did you read the latest? At a recent high-brow dinner in New York Hillary Clinton and Mayor Bill deBlasio participated in a rehearsed stereotyped racist skit as part of the entertainment:
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/276010-wh-defends-clinton-and-de-blasio-after-cp-time-joke
Afterwards Obama defended her. 🙂
Now imagine if Donald Trump participated in a rehearsed stereotyped racist skit like this. What would Obama say?
It would be on the front page of every mainstream newspaper and every cable and network anchor would be talking about it.
But since Hillary said it, it’s largely ignored by the media!!!
Oh, and the media isn’t biased and complicit in rigging elections? Oh, really?
Shit, I heard the PC folks on MSNBC having a cow over that. It WAS a lame skit, that’s for sure. But “CP Time” is something black people made up and say all the time. I’ve known several black folks who did. (Or Latin Time. Or Filipino Time.) It was a Bill DeBlasio line, because everyone knows his wife and kids are black. Yawn…
Okay, it was lame. But on the level of the shit Trump blames on Mexicans and Muslims? Nah…
Hoh Hoh. I knew someone here would try to whitewash the rehearsed racist skit that Hillary and deBlasio performed at their high-brow New York dinner.
If Trump ever pulled a stunt like that you’d be calling for his crucifixion and so would the mainstream media.
The biased and double-standard viewpoints make me vomit.
This country is FUBAR.
Ziggy, keep up. This nation is NOT participating in a direct election of the president. Not even when the presidential race is due in November will we directly elect our President, and we NEVER HAVE. We are currently selecting ONLY the candidate to represent the parties involved. Participation in those parties is voluntary. You wanna run for office as the candidate of the party? Here are the rules, agree and take it or go run for someone else’s team. Same with voters, nobody forces you to be GOP but if you register with the Grand Old Party, you play by the rules of the Grand Old Party. You don’t buy tickets to Les Mis and demand the cast break out into “that is why the Lord created men” from Scarlet Pimpernel, because hey-same costuming period, right?
Oh no, now it’s stuck in my head. If you want to make a splash, cherie, do know your haberdashery….
I get your frustration, Zig, and you DO some some choices. You can get involved with the party that most closely aligns with your views, find others in the party of like mind, and change the party from within.
You can pick another party whose views are not as strongly aligned but whose process for choosing candidates is less FUBAR.
You can start your own party and make up your own rules. It’s not like God spoke the GOP and Dems into existence in the beginning of time (and some of us claim He had nothing to do with the other at all.) They had to come from a group of like minded citizens finding the common ground to create a platform of unity, and then of course writing the governing documents in such a way that their leadership and power structure would always either retain the power or use the poison pill built in the end it all rather than be captured by the enemy. GO build your own piece of eventual self-destructive class warfare with a system of nominating candidates you can understand and manage. We will all be here, rooting for you. (actually watching how my party appears to have swallowed the cyanide tablet, we may be right behind you.)
Sure, the GOP can steal votes from it’s constituents and mock traditional democracy in America by cancelling the primary vote.
College administrators used to be able to prohibit black people from entering their classrooms too. But we saw what happened to them.
No one here seems to want to admit that the cancellation of the Colorado primary was meant to selectively harm Trump by disenfranchising the Colorado GOP voters who favored Trump as their candidate. This was a selective attack on Trump. It thwarted the will of the people. And all of you seem to be fine with it.
That’s fine.
If these selective attacks continue it’ll destroy the Republican Party.
And we’ll get the last laugh.
Or Democrats will.
It’s a little odd (I suspect for both of us) for me to be riding shotgun with Ziegfried on this, but here we are. My position may be a bit more nuanced than his — or I may just be giving myself too much credit. I expect that nipsey will be along any moment now to pithily and sarcastically tell me which, and will then retreat into his pit.
I don’t — and I don’t think that Ziggy does — disagree that parties can pretty much do whatever they like, including violating their own rules, so long as it doesn’t involve active violation of the Voting Rights Act or one of the relevant amendments. For the most part, the fairness of a party’s nominating system is not enforced by laws, but by norms of behavior and taboos. Yes, nobody goes to jail — but there is still a political price to pay for shockingly unfair actions.
Cancelling a primary and moving to a convention because the candidate disfavored by party regulars is shocking. The political price to pay is — and should be — huge. The only justification for doing it is the prospect that there may be a greater political benefit to be had — but that doesn’t change that it is a breach of trust with voters that will redound for many years.
On my side of the aisle, the DNC Chair (and former Hillary for President Co-Chair) Debbie Wasserman Schultz locking Bernie Sanders out of his own voter file (!) was a similar breach of taboo — and we Dems quickly created a big enough stink about it that she relented. But other aspects of our side’s system, like the prospect that superdelegates could reverse a Sanders lead if he can somehow attain one, we just accept as something that we knew was in the rules. It may divide the party — and maybe we have a chance to get instant runoff voting in the wake of this year’s miserable behavior so that third party candidates can have a fighting chance — but it is not shocking.
I’m not sure who if anyone writing here really disagrees with the above, but I suspect that there is more commonality between Ziggy and the rest of the commenters here than one might suppose.
You don’t have to be a Democrat to laugh at the Republican Party.
Just like you don’t have to be a Republican to laugh at the Democrats.
The Democrats are melting down too if you haven’t noticed.
Look who frontrunner Dem candidate for POTUS if you don’t believe me. 🙂
I say we are going through BIRTH PANGS of becoming more progressive. We’re like ALMOST there. Not in anywhere near bad shape as the Reeps.
As a detached independent observer (not a member of either party) I’d say the democrats in denial have done much more harm to America than the republicans.
The fact that such a large number of dems support Hillary Clinton speaks for itself. Lemmings off a cliff.
After being hoodwinked by Obama for 8 years they turn to Hillary. 🙂
Like I said….stupid is unfixable.
“Cancelling a primary and moving to a convention because the candidate disfavored by party regulars is shocking. The political price to pay is — and should be — huge.”
It’s nice to know that there’s a voice of reason on this board who understands the implications of confiscating the vote of the people to intentionally harm the campaign of a specific targeted candidate opposed by the party establishment.
We’ve seen a significant moral decline in America. But FAIRNESS still counts for something.
I’ve been amazed at the attempts by some to justify what took place in Colorado with intellectual gobbledygook. Scary.
“I’m not sure who if anyone writing here really disagrees with the above, but I suspect that there is more commonality between Ziggy and the rest of the commenters here than one might suppose.”
It’s a perfect example of emotion overriding reason, Greg.
It’s a significant flaw in the human condition.
Ziegfried once again has mistaken right-wing caca-talk for reality.
“After being hoodwinked by Obama for 8 years they turn to Hillary.”
Obama enjoys an over 80% approval rate among Democrats.That is not to say that he’s perfect, but most Democrats aren’t so childish as to believe that a politician will deliver 100%. We leave those childish expectations to the Republicans and especially the oh-so naive and delusional Dumpf supporters.
Ditto. Obama was pretty good.
He impressed me way more often than he disappointed me.
Yeah, I agree. Probably the best President of my post-elementary school lifetime. And yet still disappointing in places.
The “Obama is teh evil” line is generally long on emotion and short on specifics. If any President tries to eliminate Obamacare, I think that we’ll see cancer patients become suicide bombers. And I don’t think that I’m exaggerating; without Obamacare, they’re dead anyway.
^^^ did he now?
Tell us more, Vern.
Ugh. Okay, you disagree. I don’t want to get sidetracked on this thread listing all the good things he’s done. Bill Maher is good at that.
No, no, that’s not it. Just curious as to which of your top priorities this administration has addressed these eight years.
Yeah, tell me about it too, Vern.
Under Obama the rich got much richer while the poor got much poorer. Obama really stuck it to the ‘fat cats’, didn’t he? 🙂
More blacks are in jail today than when Obama took office.
Obama was a bigger Wall Street butt boy than George W. Bush.
Obama, the constitutional law and civil liberties attorney, allowed the government (NSA) to seize private phone records of innocent citizens without a warrant from a judge.
The Director of Intelligence, Clapper, told a bald-faced lies under sworn oath to congress about NSA collection of data. Obama kept him on the payroll as Director!
Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, started illegal wars in both Libya and Syria – resulting in a destablization. Now the terrorists have taken over.
Obama authorized the droning of neighborhoods and schools in Paki where school children died.
Obama said he would pull all our troops from Afghanistan by the end of his term. In the meantime he brokered an agreement to keep our troops in Afghanistan until 2025 or longer.
Obama increased our nation’s debt to nearly $20M – double from when he entered office.
Obama outright lied about the workings of Obamacare.
Obama wants Snowden to go to prison for treason while making excuses for Hillary using her unsecured home server to store top secret classified documents!
Etc, etc, etc.
That’s pretty good, Vern?
Oh, I forgot.
Obama endorsed TPP and wants to send more US jobs overseas and bring more foreign workers to America to steal US jobs.
How’s that for a plan, Vern?
Don’t forget about Gitmo!
But seriously Vern, I’d love to hear how POTUS has trailblazed the progressive agenda.
Obama has been subjected to so much right-wing, reality distorting crappolla that I don’t think there is any way to de-program people who have bought into it. But for those of you who have an open mind, feel free to check out the following:
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/obama-accomplishments/
Zig and Ryan do bring up some of my disappointments, plus some BS (Obama has seriously been trying to shut down gitmo for 7 years, Congress won’t let him.)
Still,
Aw, that rotten Congress. Constantly getting in the way.
If only there was a way to build relationships to help overcome significant obstacles with difficult legislation.
You know, kinda like the opposite of Obama, who’s greatest political accomplishment of bipartisanship was the Great Beersummit.
Anyway, Vern, Z is mostly right. The idea that Hillary is the rightful heir to Obama’s progressive legacy to so many Democrats is true in the worst possible way.
The most transparent adminstration ever! We’ll even have multiple members of the cabinet investigated by the FBI, because we’re SOooooOooooo for the people.
Other than Hillary’s emails, I can’t remember a single ethical scandal in the Obama Administration. Without using Google and the like, can you? It’s been pretty amazing — even less than in the Carter Administration. We won’t really come to appreciate it until he’s gone, I guess.
As for bipartisanship — come one. Republicans have been completely obstructionist. You can check the numbers: filibusters, refusals to hear or confirm appointees, etc. There was no way to “build relationships” with people who had no policy agenda other than causing him to fail.
Blaming Obama for the divisiveness in Washington is the ultimate whopper.Republican intransigence began the night of Obama’s inauguration and continues to this day. Remember when Obama took office our economy was in crisis and obstructionism was the Republican’s answer. Some call it treason.
“The room was filled. It was a who’s who of ranking members who had at one point been committee chairmen, or in the majority, who now wondered out loud whether they were in the permanent minority,” Frank Luntz, who organized the event, told FRONTLINE.
Among them were Senate power brokers Jim DeMint, Jon Kyl and Tom Coburn, and conservative congressmen Eric Cantor, Kevin McCarthy and Paul Ryan.
After three hours of strategizing, they decided they needed to fight Obama on everything. The new president had no idea what the Republicans were planning.” …
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-republicans-plan-for-the-new-president/
Mitch McConnell, 2008: My number one priority these next four years will be making Obama a one- term president.
Yeah, Bill Maher is a great unbiased, non-partisan choice to determine whether Obama fulfilled his promises in the 2008 inaugural address over 7 years after the fact. lol.
“Yeah, Bill Maher is a great unbiased, non-partisan choice to determine whether Obama fulfilled his promises in the 2008 inaugural address over 7 years after the fact.”
Is that supposed to be masquerading as a legitimate rebuttal to Maher’s points?
On a related note, I’d like to congratulate the ships on sparking some good discussion.
Related or not related to the original post.
*The Trump Defender Group is pretty awesome. If they drop the soap in the shower and Donald gives them a Sandusky……they simply said that it doesn’t matter what Donnie Boy does. If Hillary drops a stitch while knitting a quilt for a homeless child…..she is attacked for trying to kill our country.
Every time Donnie screws the pooch….folks say: “He is not a politician!” “He is rich!” “He has a nice family!” “He is rich!” or better yet: “He is a self-funding Billionaire!” “He is so smart, using that reverse psychology!” As Janis Joplin once said: “Lord, won’t you buy me a Mecedes Benz!”
Spare us your faux outrage Ziefried.
By your own admission on an earlier post you were a “birther” just like your hero The Dumpf. “Birtherism” was/is obvious, ugly, naked racism.
I suggest you stop pointing fingers at others for being racist and take a good long look in the mirror bub and until you do, please STFU!
*Sounds like Ziggy is on his way to Denver to join the “Occupy Colorado” Group. Too bad Clive and Amon Bundy are being presently detained…or they could go ahd help change the minds of those errant Caucus Members. Ziggy, do yourself a great favor and just attend any Republican Central Committee Meeting – any month will do. Ask about rules, voting and how it all works. If you are lucky, they may start talking to you in four or five years……….cause…..they don’t know “who the hell you are?” as Donald would say.
I absolutely adore Jimmy Carter. Now there’s a Democrat with integrity and moral standing. He’s like Trump. He’s doesn’t act “Presidential”. He tells the truth.
“Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president. And the same thing applies to governors, and U.S. senators and congress members.”
– Former President Jimmy Carter
Great article on how the political system (on both sides) has been hijacked:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-13/2016-year-americans-found-out-their-elections-are-rigged
*Ziggy, Carter proved one thing: “The cockroach method of governance is still in our lexicon!” You know, it’s not what they eat so much, as what they fall in and mess up!”
“He’s like Trump. He’s doesn’t act “Presidential”. He tells the truth.”
LOL. I almost just spit out my coffee. That’s a doozy!
Actually, Jimmy Carter did act Presidential. Comparing the way Jimmy Carter “acts” to the way Drumpf “acts”…wow, that’s amazing even for you, Z.
Ryan Cantor
Posted April 13, 2016 at 7:59 PM
On a related note, I’d like to congratulate the ships on sparking some good discussion.
Related or not related to the original post.
For the life of me I still have NO idea what the original post was about. I tried reading it back from to front, and then omitting every third word. That didn’t work, either, but I have to say those other efforts didn’t make any less sense.
*DZ – as usual, you read way too little into the argument that Donald Trump and his following suggests: “The system is rigged – this isn’t Democracy!” Well, no kidding – our country is based on the Roman Republics with some various Democratic Greek ideas thrown in for good measure. Back to what Ben Franklin said: “A Republic – if you can keep it!” Representative Government – you select who you want to represent your ideas and wishes. Pretty simple!
But it would be really simple if you cut out the tortuous, wackadoodle pseudo history.
*DZ, Sorry to insult your intelligence so often. The truth of the matter is that the General Public too easily forgets the history and the basis for making critical decisions. Choosing a President is obviously one of those. When the Candidates too are ignorant of the history……add that to the Media Talking Heads with facts and pretty soon, stuff is getting more stupid than necessary. Too many folks do not understand the difference between Democracy and a Republic form of Government. Too many people must have missed that class in high school history class – and too many are still missing that info today!