Yes, of course the Weekend Open Thread this week is going to be on the topic of the Stadium Lot giveaway (mostly to Arte Moreno directly, some to the Angels.) As I’m trying to follow the story in my spare time; I can’t miss an opportunity to cover it whenever I write. Two documents are on the agenda for today:
(1) Press Release from Take Back Anaheim
Joanne Sosa (whose contact information I’m omitting here, but I’ll send it to individuals who seem unlikely to abuse it at the e-mail address associated with their account) of Take Back Anaheim wants you to know something:
FOR IMMEDIATE DISTRIBUTION
September 6, 2013
Anaheim, California
PRESS CONFERENCE ON ANGELS STADIUM GIVEAWAY
Anaheim community groups, businesses, activists and individuals will gather for a press conference in opposition to the city council’s vote to extend the Angels’ current lease and memorandum of understanding. The conference will be held on Thursday, September 12, 2013, at 10:00 am, at the steps of city hall.
The MOU is an agreement on the basic terms. Angels owner Arte Moreno would lease more than 150 acres of land at $1 annually for 66 years. He could develop the area and use its revenue to make an estimated $130 million to $150 million in renovations to the 47-year-old stadium. He could also keep the development’s tax revenue. Another crucial point is the team name. Under a current lease proposal, the team could drop “Anaheim” from its name. Prior city evaluations list the property’s land worth to be $300-$400 million. This does not include the hundreds of millions of dollars the city would lose in potential transient occupancy tax (TOT) on any hotel development or sales tax revenue which could all go to Arte Moreno and the Angels instead of the city’s general fund.
Anaheim taxpayers have become increasingly angry and vocal at the current council majority’s favoritism to wealthy businesses over the needs of residents and neighborhoods. “Who is standing up for us, the people of Anaheim?”, said Donna Acevedo, lifetime resident of the city. Take Back Anaheim was created after the council gave $158 million of taxpayer dollars to one wealthy developer to build two hotels.
The only think I’d point out — which makes the situation worse (unless you’re Arte Moreno) — is that the $130-150 million in renovations is over the course of 20 years. So, yeah, he’ll have more than enough revenue to cover that.
Some people are still unclear on the concept, though. For example, this guy:
(2) I Hope That Dan C. Isn’t Getting Paid for This Flackery
You can copy much more than four paragraphs from an article if you’re giving each of them a detailed critique. So, here’s a big hunk of Dan C.’s latest from the Liberal OC — with his direct language in Republican ANGELS red. I’m assuming that you have on your hip waders.
[T]he only reason that particular part of Anaheim (where the stadium is off the 57 freeway) is valuable … is because of a certain tenant, namely the Angels. Should they move, the value of that land simply drops. And with it, that valuable real estate becomes a big empty parking lot for most of the year. The Forum in Inglewood was valuable real estate too until the Lakers and Kings left. When was the last time you were there? And Staples is such a nice facility.
No, not really. First of all, Moreno is — or at least was, until the Council let him up off of the mate — not likely to move. He couldn’t move outside of the general area without losing his extremely lucrative contract with Fox Sports. If he moved closer to LA itself, the Dodgers may be in a position to block it. (Remember: unlike the NFL in its dealings with Al Davis, baseball has an anti-trust exemption — and the owners agree to allow the Commissioner to exert king-like powers “for the good of the game.”) So while Moreno may be able to move out of the area — he’d likely create a gap into which any one of a number of other teams would likely move. (Would we get used to rooting for the Anaheim Blue Jays or Pirates or Brewers or Royals? Quickly.)
Dan also seems not to understand that the valuable real-estate of Angels Stadium holds a lot of events and could hold a lot more. Unless Inglewood, deep in a low-income area where, let’s be honest, a lot of people are afraid to drive, Angels Stadium is located in the functional middle (due to those three freeways) of a very wealthy county. Do you think that we could get people to attend events there? Probably worth a try, especially given that Anaheim as owner of this property might actually make more from even ONE such event a year than it would from an entire year under this proposed lease. But, again, we would not likely to have to worry about a stadium without baseball. (Of course, we could probably make a killing with it for soccer.)
By giving Angels owner Arte Moreno the rights to the land surrounding Anaheim Stadium, the city council has effectively given him his new stadium location from which a new stadium can replace the aging Angels Stadium, relieve Anaheim of $130 to $150 million in renovation costs while creating a lot of union and non-union construction jobs. The city can then get out of the business of managing a stadium and start paying more attention to parks, business development and public safety.
Oh, man. (1) No, actually, they haven’t given him a new stadium location, unless that was one of the proposed constructions that was cleared in the CEQA report. (Our crack media doesn’t seem to have noticed this.) (2) And guess what — Anaheim doesn’t HAVE to pay for those renovation costs right now. (3) As for the construction jobs — tell us more how good those non-union construction jobs are? (4) No, the city can’t start paying more attention to parks and stuff if it doesn’t have the revenue to do so — and this very parcel is a major part of Anaheim’s real assets, the rights to which it is giving away for 2/3 of a century or more.
Arte’s big ticket free agents show he’s willing to spend money to create a winner. And while the result on the field isn’t what Angels fans want, you can’t fault the owner for going after the elite free agents (my opinion: time for a new manager).
Arte had the best deal in baseball from the previous lousy lease with subservient Anaheim politicians — so he’s had that money to spend. This one is far worse.
I’ve read the out of breath posts in the Orange Juice Blog and in Save Anaheim.
Note to readers: you won’t be out of breath if you don’t move your lips when you read.
Leave it to Irvine’s Bill Shankin at the LA Times to summarize what the negotiations mean from the perspective of the Angels. From the story:
The council vote authorizes negotiations based on deal points that include the team calling itself the Los Angeles Angels and dropping the “of Anaheim” suffix.
The Angels also would extend their lease through 2036 — and possibly as long as 2057 — in exchange for development rights to the parking lots around the stadium.
The stadium needs $130 million to $150 million in capital improvements over the next 20 years, according to a city report. That estimate accounts solely for infrastructure — electrical maintenance and upgrades, concrete repairs, waterproofing and such—– at the stadium.
The Angels would pay all of that cost and would pay above and beyond for any improvements that would generate additional revenue for the team, for example, more luxury seating.
Let’s stop right there. Who pays the costs for all this under the existing Giveaway Jr. lease? The Angels do. So cooing about how the Angels would do this under the new lease misses the point that they’re already obliged to do this — unless they want to move.
The total costs might be so substantial, Black said, Moreno might well consider razing Angel Stadium and building a new one on the adjacent parking lot.
With no cost for land acquisition, Black said Moreno could build a new ballpark for $450 million to $500 million. Carpino said that could be an option.
So, at that point, Moreno owns the ballpark built in the middle of what he could decide to call “Morenoville” and Anaheim doesn’t. That should make future negotiations with him much easier — especially because he holds onto the parking lot rights, even if he moves the team, until around 2080. (Hey, do you think another team — baseball, soccer, or football — would be willing to move here if Moreno has a chokehold over their parking lot? If you do, bless your heart.)
The consultants for the city maintain Moreno has the means to build a stadium somewhere else. But if he doesn’t need to buy the land somewhere else, he can build right next to Angels Stadium for a lot less money and keep the team here. For a kid who grew up in New York, I always knew the California Angels played in Anaheim. It doesn’t matter if they have Los Angeles or Anaheim or California associated with their name. What does matter is the Angels play here and not someone else in So Cal.
What matters is the total quality of life in the area — which includes the fiscal soundness of Anaheim. If Dan C. wants to organize Irvine and other cities to give money to the City of Anaheim so that they’ll keep the Angels here, he’d better get cracking. Again, like the City’s consultants, Dan’s apparent idea of negotiations is to start out by saying “look, the only important thing here is that you agree to stay.” That’s called “maintaining leverage.”
I like having the Angels a short drive away. If they move to Irvine, even better. They can move to other cities in Southern California. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to see them in Irvine, Near Yorba Linda/Brea, Long Beach or Mission Viejo. And putting up a stadium once a site is selected can go pretty quickly (see how fast the Patriot’s build Gillette Stadium to replace aging Foxboro Stadium).
And if they leave, and for some reason another team doesn’t want to come in, then we can sell the land for someone to build a university, a hospital, an Irvine-style corporate campus, or any number of other things that actually would be lucrative to the City, because it has such a great location.
So for the hand ringing [sic] of Jason Young, Greg Diamond, and Vern Nelson, a simple question: when was the last time any one of you went to an Angels game? From theold photos of the Stadium you’re using in your posts, I’ll guess it’s been years if ever. Call me fellas; you have my cell. I have a list of about 5 questions. Basic stuff. I bet you won’t have a clue on the answer, nor can you answer them in seconds without having to use Google.
I’m just going to copy the response to Dan C. that I left in LOC:
The notion that one has a clearer idea as to whether this deal is a giveaway or not if one has recently attended an Angels’ game is — I’m sorry that there’s no better word for it — really stupid. Do you have an opinion on bombing Syria? When’s the last time you’ve been to Syria? Do you have an opinion on the City of Bell pensions? When’s the last time you’ve been to Bell’s City Hall? Show more self-respect than that when you write.
I’ll tell you one thing that does help, though: when’s the last time that you’ve been to an Anaheim City Council meeting when they’re in the midst of a giveaway? THAT’s a hell of a lot more relevant than having seen the rally money on the big screen in person.
If you were a real friend to Jordan Brandman, you would stop enabling him and start concentrating on how to keep him out of jail. Desperate PR will only help him so much — and it’s less than his being the only Democrat involved in a money scandal, and therefore the perfect sacrificial lamb, will hurt him.
Dan mentioned his willingness to set Jordan on fire if the need arises — or something like that. It involved a torch.
Did the City Council go too far? Probably.
Really? And why is that? Concessions means so much less unless they’re specified.
But a deal to keep the team here for up to 43 years seems to be a good one and a new stadium will create lots of labor union construction jobs and lots of new tax dollars pumping into the Anaheim coffers.
“Up to 43 years” is like “up to 43% off.” Three years (or 3%) satisfy that claim. And notice how “labor union construction jobs” — the standard “Business Democratic” for any proposed abomination used to be, more honestly, “labor or non-labor jobs”? Moreno has complete control over this parcel — I wonder which one he’d choose.
As for these tax dollars “pumped into Anaheim’s coffers” — how does that work exactly? Dan C. says that he read my articles; did he notice the stuff about Moreno keeping all of the money generated from the parcel?
There are hundreds of businesses around the stadium that would flat out die should the Angels leave. Perhaps before we all lose our minds, we should wait to hear more from the team about what their specific plans are and might be and how they intend to work with the city that’s been so generous to them for so long.
“Hundreds,” you say? Heck, I’ll make it easy on you. Let’s see the names of merely one hundred “businesses around the stadium that would flat out die should the Angels leave.” Because, honestly, while that statement is likely untrue it doesn’t seem like it even rises to the level of being a lie. It’s just bullshit.
All the analysis to date reflects short term thinking by people who have no idea about the business of baseball let alone how fans will react. Let’s look at the whole story from both sides before we start jumping to conclusions.
Funny story about “short-term thinking.” I was one of those who noticed immediately something that I think Tom Tait pointed out: the point that while under this lease Moreno could move the team by 2034 (or so), he would still control the parking lot — and thus the ability to make life miserable for any prospective new tenant for another 45 years (at minimum) after that. Confronted with this little problem, the crack expert staff said that yeah, this would be a good thing to work out in future negotiations.
To call the people like me — who were asking for another freaking three weeks so that the public could actually look over this agreement before Anaheim promised to bargain on the basis of the MOU — “short sighted” in our thinking is amazing. I won’t even call it “short-sighted thinking,” because that implies an ability to see at all. You don’t need to think much if all you’re going to do is spout PR bullshit.
This is your Weekend Open Thread. Talk about this or anything else you wish, within broad bounds of decency and decorum. No Dearthwatch this week.
I guess Obama is angry that he cannot manipulate Putin in to seeing things his way…whether its turning over Snowden or bombing Syria.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/09/g20-ends-abruptly-as-obama-calls-putin-a-jackass.html
I really loved the last line from Putin (who is a jackass, but so is Obama)
….Shortly after Mr. Obama’s volcanic performance, Mr. Putin released a terse official statement, reading, “I should be afraid of this skinny man? I wrestle bears.”
Inge, just checking to be safe: you know that The Borowitz Report is satire, like the Onion — right?
actually no I didn’t know… even if its not true…I bet Putin was thinking it. I saw the report on RT… Obama was walking away from Putin and he didn’t look happy so it looked real.
EIther way, the simultaneous combo of believable and unbelievable, still gave me a laugh for the weekend!
A) I think we need to go beyond a protest at City Hall and work up to picketing events at the Stadium. I know, Arte is a businessman, who is simply taking what is offered to him, but business is business and if making him uncomfortable in front of the media makes him rethink the deal, I am kind of OK with that.
B) I personally believe Dan C. was kidnapped during his recent vacation, and being held for ransom by a fringe branch of the tea party, who will continue to use his hacked electronic media accounts to make him look like an idiot until Chris Prevatt pays his ransom.
A) Sadly, unlikely to work.
B) Sadly, unnecessary.
I think that either of those efforts would preach to the deaf and blind, rather than the choir, and a 4-1 vote can be already predicted, regardless of the “TBD” ‘details’- I feel that is already more than obvious from dias, with the price of one vote already set as merely an extra luxury box. The same effort replacing poster signs with recall petitions would send a stronger, more directed message, and possibly have a better outcome IMO. During the Disney Expansion, H.O.M.E. spent 4 years of diligent effort when 3 votes were already solid. You know how that went. Here there are 4. How many signs, waved how hard have any chance of changing that?
David Brooks (NY Times) argument for Obama to attack Syria is to save his credibility at home and abroad…so now we are down to “egos” as a reason to kill even more people?
How about this reason …. people at home and abroad are sick and tired of war as the answer to all human problems? As far as credibility goes… Obama lost his credibility with me months ago.
As for the behavior of our leaders who run Anaheim…they are a microcosm of what goes on in Washington. They should all be kicked out and those who take their place should work for minimum wage and no pensions…just like those they are supposed to work for.
All these guys seem to forget when they are sworn in to office…they are civil servants not Monarchs.
If I pull on the “open thread” will the OJB unravel?
Why did Arte change the freaking name to LA Angels anyway? It’s no more LA than Glendale or Scottsdale are Phoenix.
Screw LA Arte, if we wanted to, we would live in LA. Those of us who were born in LA County and escaped are happy as hell to be out of there and don’t want to go back! Drop the LA and maybe I will go to a game or two. It’s a stunningly easy bike ride for us to get there and back home. BTW you need more bike racks at the stadium!
Inge,
I’m kind of surprised you haven’t been pushing this story:
http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/168135/
Carl, I have not read that yet…there is so much to sift through as well as news coverage…I need an assistant. I plan to read more and write about it later. Obama is making his case Tuesday… so far it looks like a lot of finger pointing…isn’t that always the case?
Carl – The NFL New York Giants don’t even play in their home state.
I know that, Skally.
But that IS NYC…what can I say?
An interesting aspect to all this is – how married is Arte to the “Los Angeles” designation? Angels fans will not abide that name being displayed anywhere in the stadium or on uniforms. How many professional sports teams do not sport the name of their designated city?
Only recently the Angels took down the huge hideous “Los Angels Times” sign above the right field scoreboard. That sign, when originally installed, was BLUE – they changed it to red.
It’s ego. When baseball’s owners get together, those with franchises named after the biggest cities get to sit at the adults’ table.
I’d say there’s a better than 50/50 chance he’ll change the “Los Angeles” part. It will enable the team to introduce a whole new line of merchandising, which is obviously very lucrative for the team.
Waking up yesterday to the Chmieleski screed in LibOc, I composed about 5 successive responses during the day, but think yours here is broader, deeper, and more succinct. If my 6th one never makes the ‘mediation’ there, here it is-
To Mr. Chmielewski-
It hasn’t yet come to me, but there’s probably a better word than ARROGANCE to describe the trait that would cause residents of every OTHER city surrounding Anaheim, to expect that ONLY Anaheim residents should accept badly-negotiated contracts, and the resulting future higher taxes or service cuts, so that THEY can enjoy convenient games, and ‘regional pride’ from retaining the Angels. Pride for Anaheim residents, of course, is NOT an issue, after the Angels WENT TO COURT for the right to REDUCE our city’s part in their TEAM NAME, and now want to COMPLETE the REMOVAL in a new deal.
By the same trait, Stadium related employees, expect ONLY Anaheim residents, especially the MANY MORE of those NOT owing part of their paychecks to some degree of City assistance or “investment”, to bear the same sacrifices.
While Anaheim seeks funds due for a succession of million dollar police lawsuits, with another impending over election methods, we should enjoy our ‘civic pride’ instead of getting a REASONABLE RETURN on an under-developed TAXPAYER OWNED real estate parcel, waiting for the ‘trickle down” theory to work?
Explain how THAT is supposed to happen (and, like the school exam phrase, “Show your work”!)
Let me provide a few details that may be UNKNOWN to those who know (or care) more about baseball than City finances- (I’ll GIVE you the answers, since your knowledge of those is probably WORSE than mine on baseball trivia)-
– “The Angels also do not pay property taxes for the approximately 160-acre stadium and parking lot, whose 2010 assessed value was more than $72 million. The property is tax exempt because it is owned by the city of Anaheim.” -2012 Register article
– The (legacy) Disney deal for the Stadium effectively PROHIBITED collection of any admission tax.
– Quoting the State Board of Equalization, ” Fees charged for the use of AMUSEMENT PARKS, theaters, SPORTS EVENTS, golf courses, etc., are NOT subject to sales or use taxes because there is no exchange of tangible personal property. ”
– (except for 12 non-sports events) Moreno gets ALL Stadium revenue form ADMISSIONS and PARKING
– The proposed lease of additional acreage is 40 years longer than the Stadium lease, and TOTALLY UNLINKED to keeping the Angels in Anaheim, and gives the city a TOTAL of 66 DOLLARS!
To put that in context, perhaps we should compare that to the 128 privately owned, PROPERTY TAXABLE acres of South Coast Plaza, whose estimated $1.5 Billion in TAXABLE sales benefit the residents of Costa Mesa,( but you would have to ask THEM how much civic pride that includes.) Perhaps to balance the acreage, we could throw in the Harbor Blvd. of Cars – (City wide, Costa Mesa forecasts current sales tax of about $45 million and $21.5 M Property tax)
What do YOU pay for in YOUR city, that you as a resident get LITTLE BENEFIT FROM, while OTHERS get LOTS? ANYTHING? Would YOU merely sit by and practice your deep breathing exercises when the BEST they tell you they can do is not IMPROVING what they have, but giving you MORE of the SAME? Not bloody likely!
I already anticipate yells of “Don’t Like it? MOVE OUT!” to which I respond “YOU are the folks that want the team here for YOUR benefit – YOU should show YOUR support and MOVE HERE! Otherwise, you are just being SELFISH instead of SERIOUS!” And maybe if moving here is just TOO MUCH trouble, you could just send in a check to backfill the City’s Badly-concieved Give Away?
Funny how the room just got really quiet!
To Mr. Cunningham-
Does ANYONE pity YOUR clients? Sentiment I see on the web is mostly that they deserve what they get!
Well done — and thank you for the kind fib about my ever being more succinct.
I love the way he cites a sportswriter as just the type of guy who can cut through all the bull. A sportswriter! Let’s not let a bunch of stats get in the way of the story; he I can sum up the box score in two paragraphs! This is the same clown who holds Cunningham in high esteem.
Come to think of it, maybe HE is on the payroll of the Kleptocracy, too.
If it is of any interest, I found a study about the benefits of Team Hosting http://kansascityfed.com/Publicat/Econrev/PDF/1q01rapp.pdf
AFTER posting the above. One note is that Anaheim’s returns (NO ticket sales or admission tax) would be even LOWER than their table estimates, which use across-the-board sales tax.
While quality -of -life benefits were emphasized at the Council, note 20 on pg 83 counters- (Anaheim teams are not distinct, but attributed to Los Angeles)
“Given the large quantity and variety of alternative entertainment venues in the Los Angeles metro area (e.g., four major league teams, two top college athletic programs, four major amusement/theme parks, beaches, nearby mountains), it is not surprising that the quality-of-life benefits from hosting an additional team may be LOWER to Los Angeles than they are to other metro areas.”
THIS study was available free, for a download, the the city. What does THEIR guy cost?
And another (actually, both a study and also a book) http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/1997/06/summer-taxes-noll
and some interesting articles-
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40595178/
https://www.mtb.com/personal/Pages/Index.aspx
http://www.akdart.com/sports.html
Imagine, in about an hour, YOU could have a better background on the subject than some of those who voted on Tuesday!
That’s why they had to hurry things along!
Sorry, mtb.com is a BANK- don’t know how that popped up- maybe a pop-up ad??-sorry. not the ‘interest’ing I wanted- instead try parts 1-3 of
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Selling+the+game%3A+estimating+the+economic+impact+of+professional…-a0174639675
which explains why studies can be misleading unless the TRUE picture is accounted for-
Must be in the water, because no one hates in-laws quite this much, accidentally.
Goes to show that the only thing that stops a bad in-law is a good in-law with a gun.
Wonder if they’ll invoke the Bush doctrine as a defense, like this guy did.
If only there was a lawyer on staff…
Yo Vern, why is Big Bof of Red Whine working the comments sections. Get them a user account pronto, no idea who this is, but they need to be writing for us above the sign in line! GREAT work!
Aw,shucks! But that really means a lot from you, Cynthia! Now my face is red, (and that’s not from spillage!)
Let me ring in on this one as well…nice job BigBox! I really like the links and background to add to your arguments.
But don’t go inflating the bosses ego too much, ok?
Thanks- although I’m just having a statistically-rare good day, and Google is also unusually co-operative. No idea if I can sustain this regularly, but this issue is an open nerve with me, – I will gladly continue as available, and hope my posts can be useful. e-mail any questions? BTW the ‘praise’ was in comparison to my UNSENT posts, believe me they will STAY unsent!
Haha, I have a pretty good idea who he is and he used to call himself Laundromat Viewer, and we used to argue about districting. He gave himself away recently when he once again started talking about watching TV in the laundromat. How much laundry could he have to do?
I think Zenger should also have an account, and we should demand more stories from Ryan.
Oh yeah, and I should finish some of these things I’ve been lollygagging on myself…
What about Boutwell? His point of view was interesting and engaging.
What do you think of Chief Quezada’s report presented at the last council meeting? See Adam’s link. It seems to me that he is positively addressing the issues. I wonder what our in-house police expert, Duane, has to say.
http://www.voiceofoc.org/oc_north/article_c44ae094-1635-11e3-82c0-001a4bcf887a.html#user-comment-are
Bus-ted! Not that I was hiding (after all,YOU see the e-mail addresses!) I just thought BBRW was funnier (but not shorter!) and less oblique. As an OJB newbie, I thought LV was more about watching all the ‘dirty laundry’ get ‘spun’ around, than personal hygiene Which I hope is not deficient. Argument? We never got that far, (as far as I know?) I would appreciate a pop via e-mail to share some thoughts that I don’t believe are appropriately screamed from rooftops (online). Or not. Only email IN I found was in Greg’s ad, and I assume he would want me to keep this separate from important family-feeding stuff(?)
Shit, everyone should have my e-mail address. I thought it was easily available… somewhere… around here. Anyway, ChezVern@aol.com
We should have an OJB account that sends e-mail directly to you, just for people who need that sort of thing.
While you were commenting from your AC cooled homes, I was precinct walking this morning in Anaheim with a bunch of people. I ended up walking in St Clementine, a nice little street with historical homes. The neighbors were interested in the council district concept, and some of them signed up for follow up information.
I second that BigBoxOfRedWhine gets an user account!
LA Times – “Angels’ Arte Moreno could pay off in a big way for city of Anaheim”
For the 47 years the Angels have called Anaheim home, they have played in a stadium in the middle of a parking lot.
If there is a pot of gold beneath all those parking spaces, the city of Anaheim has failed to find it. The time has come for the city to let Arte Moreno try.
The Anaheim City Council made the right call last week, approving the parameters of a deal in which Moreno would pay for a new or renovated stadium in exchange for the right to develop the parking lot.
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77314378/
“If there is a pot of gold beneath all those parking spaces, the city of Anaheim has failed to find it.”
Not looking is a great way of not finding. The City’s failure, like that of all overreaching governments is to become a real property owner.
BTW, Moreno has made ZERO promise of building anything so please don’t trot out that BS anymore. The Stadium lease and the ground lease aren’t even linked.
Glad to see that you agree with the author that the City has failed their opportunity to develop the property. It is time to release the a kraken of capitalism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?autoplay=1&v=7SqC_m3yUDU&desktop_uri=%252Fwatch%253Fv%253D7SqC_m3yUDU%2526autoplay%253D1&nomobile=1
Here’s a novel idea: sell the property and the stadium to Moreno and get it back on the tax rolls.
Of interest? from CApoliticalReview.com-
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/09/04/5707220/siskiyou-county-votes-to-pursue.html
and
http://www.capoliticalreview.com/top-stories/californians-fleeing-to-nevada/?utm_source=CAPoliticalReview.com&utm_campaign=b48550bac3-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b855a22bd3-b48550bac3-302742077
last one turn out the lights?
Inge,
Here’s a softball for you, on a nice slow pitch…
Merck vaccine developer admits vaccines routinely contain hidden cancer viruses derived from diseased monkeys
http://www.naturalnews.com/041963_vaccines_cancer_viruses_Dr_Maurice_Hilleman.html#ixzz2eHm0t6Uc
Carl, how did you know I am terrible at sports? I have 2 left feet. Read that article and will toss you this one… http://www.examiner.com/article/two-vaccine-study-participants-die-during-trials-of-the-first-gmo-flu-vaccine
I’m not surprised, trials can be dangerous.
I didn’t know, Inge. I just thought it was right up your alley, that’s all and it might be informative for those who have blind faith in the medical care system.
WaPo –
“The Obama administration secretly won permission from a surveillance court in 2011 to reverse restrictions on the National Security Agency’s use of intercepted phone calls and e-mails, permitting the agency to search deliberately for Americans’ communications in its massive databases, according to interviews with government officials and recently declassified material.”
So it was legal and not unconstitutional? When will the mainstream media tell us these things?
When did constitutionality fall under the authority of some Star Chamber?
“What had not been previously acknowledged is that the court in 2008 imposed an explicit ban — at the Bush Administration’s request — on those kinds of searches, and that the Obama Administration in 2011 got the court to lift the bar and that the search authority has been used.”
Technically if it’s not Constitutional it isn’t legal. The star chamber doesn’t give a rats ass about it being Constitutional, they count on the complexity of the system to basically hobble anyone who attempts to stop it.
They also get a butt load of methods and information that can be used and hidden away beyond the grasp of anyone, outside the inner circle that is, and we all pay for it. The also get it’s use for the time in between discovery and shut down to do anything they want with it.
Can you imagine how many secrets float around DC? Can you imagine that there might be a lot of blackmail material there…? Just as J. Edgar Hoover did for so long, the power of knowledge has great potential for both good and bad.
So, is anyone still wondering why I want to constrain the powers of the govt?
The Patriot Act is anything but. At the very least, IF it were administered in a manner that had some real teeth to it’s abuse, it might make some sense, but that’s not what we got when we got our current administration.
It certainly can be argued that those who started it, weren’t much better than what we have now. The matter of degrees however shouldn’t be the topic of discussion as much as why we allow it to begin with.
We allow, as a society, because of a perception that it will make us safer.
Is that just a perception, or is it reality? That’s the real question that needs to be answered by the media and independent research, not the govt in some report.
Or does that even matter to you? Do we as a society really value our freedom more than we value our perception of public safety?
Only time will tell…
For some reason, Google (and YouTube) have been a cornucopia for me this weekend! I had forgotten about TED talks, and stumbled into THIS one as “Suggested for You” . I may be watching all the TV news about Syria, etc. in a new light now?
*The Escondido Angels? Who came up with that name? Of course it’s the San Diego Angels (its got a ring to it..doesn’t it?)…..we don’t need no stinking Angels…..we hardly need the Dodgers. Haven’t they heard….they are not the Red Sox, The Yankees,l Detroit tigers or the White Sox.. We live in a global society……we can like a variety of teams.
Arte Moreno has been reading the Miami Herald again and how stupid those folks are down in Miami Beach…..(being taxed and building new stadiums for anyone that asks)and the politicians are much easier to buy off there than they are here. Sad. Well, you can call me Ray or you can call me Jay…..but just call Arte: “The LA Angle” He knows all the angles alright. He will like it better in SD where the politicians are more like they are in Miami! Maybe Bob Filner can be employed as a lobbyist for his efforts.
*We know…..but the Padres will not mind having an American League Team that can be picked on instead of them!
*How about the San Diego Friars? The Padres and the Friars? How cool would that be?
“…the politicians are much easier to buy off there than they are here.”
No, I’d guess it’s a lot more expensive in Miami. Here you just have to make a handful of legal campaign contributions, host a fundraiser and pay off a little campaign debt.
“I Hope That Dan C. Isn’t Getting Paid for This Flackery”
I made the mistake of trying to get this joker to address a single issue regarding the Great Anaheim Heist. He wouldn’t do it. He kept mumbling things about “baseball business” like it meant something. The constant changing of the subject and refusal to address specific issues about the MOUs leads me to believe is getting paid to obfuscate this swindle.
That’s just how Dan is. He’s a weaselly PR type at heart whether he’s getting paid or not. I think you can see how he and Matt get along so well, although they purport to be conservative and liberal.
Cunningham isn’t conservative; I’ve seen his scribblings. He’s a low level PR tool for hire.
He once criticized High Speed rail (just for show) and then proclaimed his opinion that if we had to have it he was glad a staunch conservative like Curt Pringle was running the show!
You caught “purport to be,” yes? I’ve been arguing with him for years that he’s not really conservative, and he contends that I can’t judge that because I’m not conservative. But I probably am more conservative than him.
I guess they meet in the self interested middle. That’s where the cash nexus pulls in all the small fry who subsist off the crumbs their higher-ups let fall off the table where the Grown Ups sit.
I can’t see this Dan C. character turning tricks for free, but maybe he is that dumb. He keeps point to an LA Times sportswriter as some sort of authority on the Moreno Swindle.
Now you’ve got it…
haha, just read your comment again and caught the high speed rail thing. I’m the opposite of Cunningham. I really want California to have it and I think we can manage it, I just want to keep scammers like Pringle as far from it as possible.
Cunningham is a Republican. Hypocritical, unprincipled, sell-to-the-highest bidder crony who would back Mrs. Fuentes because… well, he wants to hitch his wagon to that name.
If he were electable, he’d slightly less despicable a character than an electable Ralph Reed
Whoa, Brother. Not all Republicans have gone over to the Dark Side. Well, maybe in OC most have. Waiting for an honest man.
Hey Diogenes, when did you grow that beard?
I know a couple of honest Republicans.
The biggest problem is, when they act like they are, they get beat up for doing the right and ethical thing. They don’t get the kind of support that they should or they shoved to the side for someone who knows how to play the game instead of being ethical.
I imagine it’s the same in the other camp as well. Guys that really have a conscience, and vote it, get hammered there too. It’s the good old boys and girls who get the plums. That’s just politics.
When I was in high school I went to two central committee meetings of both parties as a part of a civics project for extra credit. I ended up amending the theme of my project because of those visits, as it became “Why I am registering as an independent voter” instead of joining either party.
I have been to several more over the years and it seems like nothing ever changes. It’s pretty sad.
Carl, the problem as I see it is that there are too many people with more ambition than ability. Then throw in the perpetual fundraising and you have a delicious recipe for casual if not legal corruption.
It sure isn’t you Zenger. Shawn Nelson fired you. You got caught being dishonest.
Uh, right. The FBI isn’t investigating me.
BTW, please keep it up!
Let’s see… this Lallypop hates me and hates you, they love Cunningham (and not many do.) They seem to be some sort of insider or have some insider pal …. Who could it be?
And now it’s global COOLING!
Record return of Arctic ice cap as it grows by 60% in a year.
Almost a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than in 2012.
BBC reported in 2007 global warming would leave Arctic ice-free in summer by 2013.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415191/Global-cooling-Arctic-ice-caps-grows-60-global-warming-predictions.html#ixzz2eVQ6rG35
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“No, THe World Isn’t Cooling.
“When I heard that the Mail on Sunday ran a climate change article over the weekend, I knew it would be bad. But when I clicked the link and saw it was written by David Rose, I braced myself for the worst.
“Man, sometimes I hate being right.
“Rose is a guy who denies climate change in the way creationists deny evolution, and flat-Earthers deny the Earth is, well, not flat. That is to say, with claims so ridiculously wrong it’s charitable to call them ‘ridiculously wrong.'”
Read the rest here… http://slate.me/15TmhPo
Yahooooooo !!!!! –
Two Democratic lawmakers in Colorado, including the president of the state Senate, were recalled Tuesday in elections brought about by their support for out of touch gun control laws.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/11/colorado-dems-face-historic-recall-over-gun-votes/?test=latestnews#ixzz2eciCSJAg