Among the extraordinary things that we saw this past week, this interview with Ruslan Tsarni, uncle of the Tsarnaev brothers, is among the most so. I can barely imagine being in his situation. The part at the end is particularly moving.
It’s not surprising for someone, even in a tribal culture, to be held responsible for the actions of someone in their family or clan. In the stew pot of America, though, one may be held to account not only for one’s estranged nephews, but for one’s entire ethnicity (even religion) as well. The media demanded that Ruslan Tsarni shoulder that responsibility yesterday. His reaction was, in its way, as extraordinary as Carlos Arredondo’s — being thrust into the position of doing something that he could not imagine having to do that day.
What has this to do with Orange County? Well, we’re one of the most gloriously polyethnic spots on the planet. Often, those of us from minority ethnicities — Mexican, Vietnamese, Arab, Jewish, Filipino, Korean, Persian, Indian, and more — are asked in some way to answer for the actions of others of that ethnicity. I suppose that in a sense that’s just natural — we’re presumed to have some special insight, I suppose — but to demand it, as seen here, is also bizarre. I think that many of us in OC will have similar “there but for the grace of god” reactions to this video.
Sometimes, the demand that we “represent our people” that can even devolve into such teeth-grinding questions as “what do you feel about America?” How does one answer a question like that? Well, watch and see.
So, is it okay to be “Islamophobic” now?
No, you asshole.
Thank you
These terrorists did not kill and maim in the name of their family, ethnicity or their country. They killed and maimed in the name of Islam.
So? Has any killing or maiming been done in the name of Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, etc? What’s your point?
What strikes me here is your hypocrisy, about which I imagine you’re too smart to be oblivious. If someone tried to tie priestly pederasty to some aspects of Catholicism, you’d be the first to pitch a fit. But you’re oh so eager to pin this deviant behavior on a rival religion, for what you imagine to be your own purposes. Contemptible.
Skally,
where do you get your info from? These boys killed because they decided to. Islam was not behind it anymore than the Easter Bunny
And why did they decide to? Doesn’t the answer to that question matter?
It’s early in the investigations. And I don’t think that referring to Islam in general, the way Skallywag does, is particularly helpful at this point. But it’s entirely legitimate to ask whether or not a fundamentalist, radical brand of Islam motivated either of these men. This form of Islam DOES advocate violence.
I don’t normally quote Bill Maher – but when I do it is a KICK-ASS quote.
On HBO’s “Real Time” on Friday night, host Bill Maher entertained UC-San Bernardino professor Brian Levin, director of the Center for Study of Hate and Extremism, who maintained that despite the events in recent days, religious extremism isn’t only a product of Islam.
But Maher took issue with that claim, calling it “liberal bullshit” and said there was no comparison.
“You know what, yeah, yeah,” Maher said. “You know what — that’s liberal bullshit right there … they’re not as dangerous. I mean there’s only one faith, for example, that kills you or wants to kill you if you draw a bad cartoon of the prophet. There’s only one faith that kills you or wants to kill you if you renounce the faith. An ex-Muslim is a very dangerous thing. Talk to Salman Rushdie after the show about Christian versus Islam. So you know, I’m just saying let’s keep it real.”
One technique of cowardly bigotry is to attack minorities religions or ethnicities in a situation where pointing out that majority religions or ethnicities do comparably bad things. You only do it, cowardly bigot that you are, because you can depend on the prejudices of your audience to match yours. If you had been brought up in Iran, you’d be among the first to make the case against anyone besides Muslims; it’s just in your cowardly bigoted nature.
I’m not going to make a laundry list of contemporary Christians (and Jews and Hindus and others) who — even if, unsurprisingly, they don’t want to kill you for a graphic depiction of Mohammed — do things every bit as arbitrary, unjustifiable, and heinous. I recognize that you want me (or someone else) to do so, so that you can move this argument onto grounds where you can win: “is Christianity good?” Well, that’s not the debate topic for today, cowardly bigot. The topic is: “is Islamophobia good?”
(Oh, heck, I’ll play your game for just one round: let’s cite the Kenyan Christians wanting to make homosexuality a capital offense. Who suffers more in our world — gays and lesbians or cartoonists?)
As for “there’s only one faith that kills you or wants to kill you if you renounce the faith”? Really? You really think so? Where’d you get the evidence for that? A comedian pulled that observation out of his ass and you licked your lips and dug into it.
In banging the drum for Islamophobia, you’re not only an asshole and a bigoted coward, you’re also dumb. Why? Because your whipping up hatred and calling Muslims insulting names isn’t going to solve anything, it’s not going to defuse anything, it’s not going to improve anything. It’s just a possible means to greater political popularity for you and the Republican Party for which you shill.
You know what works? More Muslims who appreciate and advocate for human rights. Muslims who may remain as negative towards depictions of Mohammed and insults to Allah as many Christians are towards insulting depictions of Jesus, but who accept that such differences (where I’ll likely be on the other side of them most of the time, at least when it comes to legal rights as opposed to courtesy) are to be settled as matters of policy in a democratic society rather than by violence.
I know a lot of Muslims in and around Orange County who hold such admirable enlightenment attitudes about political disputes, even though I may disagree with them about certain political and legal issues. One advantage we have as a society is that those people, who espouse very much American values, are able to talk to other Muslims both domestically and abroad in a way that you are not. You seek, in fact, to undermine them by lumping all such devout Muslims into a category with the most brutal killers of innocents.
It’s dumb, it’s cowardly, it’s bigoted, and it makes you — in not at all a funny or charming way — an asshole. If I were a Republican, I’d certainly want to reject your whipping up Islamophobia for political ends. I doubt that many elected officials like Ed Royce, though, would disagree — figuring that that’s not where the Orange County votes are. And that is disgusting.
You have mistaken me for Bill Maher – I’ll pass your thoughts on to him.
Yeah, and we’ll let Bill know you thought his quote was “kick-ass.”
Please do – much appreciated.
The topic for today is not “iS Islamophobia good.”
The topic for today is not “is Islamophobia good?”I stated in that manner just to tweak your titties. What you define as “Islamophobia”, in my view, is (mostly) a recognition that there are many who call themselves Muslim who want YOU and me dead.
Your prattle,while articulate, is an inaccurate depiction of what Maher said.
“So, is it okay to be ‘Islamophobic’ now?”
“So, is it OK to be ‘anti-Semitic’ now?”
“So, is it OK to be ‘anti-Catholic’ now?”
Pretty hilarious. Does Debra Pauly also fall back on the “I was just kidding” line of defense?
All depends on reasonable definition.
Islam + Homosexuality:
“Islamic law teaches that homosexuality is a vile form of fornication, punishable by death.”
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/026-homosexuality.htm
Islam + Apostasy
“Those who turn their back on Islam are to be executed.”
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/012-apostasy.htm
Isam isn’t the only religion that frowns on so-called bad behavior…
Christian laws about sexual encounteers:
Exodus 19:13
13 He shall surely be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on him. Whether man or animal, he shall not be permitted to live.’ Only when the ram’s horn sounds a long blast may they go up to the mountain.
Deuteronomy 13:10
10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
Deuteronomy 17:5
5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death.
Deuteronomy 22:21
21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
The Torah of the Jews, which is contained in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible and as such serves as a common religious reference, prescribes death by stoning for a long series of offenses, namely:
Touching Mount Sinai while God was giving Moses the Ten Commandments (Exodus 19:13)
An ox that gores someone to death should be stoned (Exodus 21:28)
Breaking the Shabbat (Numbers 15:32-36)
Giving one’s “seed” (presumably one’s offspring) “to Molech” (Leviticus 20:2-5)
Having a “familiar spirit” (or being a necromancer) or being a “wizard” (Lev. 20:27)
Cursing God (Lev. 24:10-16)
Engaging in idolatry (Deuteronomy 17:2-7) or seducing others to do so (Deut. 13:7-12)
“Rebellion” against parents (Deut. 21,21)
Getting married as though a virgin, when not a virgin (Deut. 22:13-21)
Sexual intercourse between a man and a woman engaged to another man (both should be stoned, Deut. 22:23-24)
Lets not pretend that Christainity is superior…if thats where you are going.
I watched this uncle and could only think I was so glad to never have had an uncle like that. One mean s.o.b. As for Salman Rushdie lets just call him an “x” or maybe a “0”. He was/is only about himself and the almighty $. Lets don’t get too sentimental about his “pursecution”. Not many hide in the laps of luxury to escape “extremism”. He knew exactly what he was doing but the money meant more. He is an ex-nothing. These two young men were “lone wolves”. They just did it. They too are ex-nothings.
And what are your excuses for the terrorist killer maiming bombers?
I think she said they are “ex-nothings.” What are you so fucking gleeful about?
Unlike Diamond I take into consideration the here and now – not ancient history. If this went another way you would be up high on your fucking soapbox.
That is not condemnation.
If you think that putting the Islamist terrorist killer maiming bombers on an equal footing with her opinion of Salman Rushdie is adequate condemnation then you need to get your head out of your ass Vern.
As time moves forward we will soon hear that they were not “Lone Wolves”. As the past has been proven these mercenaries are here and they are not alone, ever.
We are US citizens and expect to live in a free country, what we do not want is people coming to this country becoming US citizens and then propel us to kingdom come and our freedoms with them.
This was not a mistake or an accident, they “hate us”, our culture, our way of life and these terrorists have made this clear, there is no coexistence!
*Ruslan Tsarni…..is awesome. He is guaranteed that the rest of his life he will be the most wanted actor for every terrorist role in Hollywood. Ruslan is fantastic. A real American Hero. He busted the kids, the Aunt, the Dad…..the whole deal. He is what America is all about and we are proud as punch that he is going to be sought by the William Morris Agency….or CAA before you can say “Jack Robinson”.
I don’t remember any apologies from a family member in the Caucasian groups. Do you? I usually hear from parents of kids who do crimes that tend to point fingers at outsiders or someone else. — I worked with a man from Yemen years ago and he told me in their culture, if a member breaks the law, the whole family is shamed. Thats how they try to keep thei kids in line. In the U.S. mom and dad say its not their fault, or their darling would never do such a thing, or the cops are framing them….
I was impressed by this man as well, but even though he expressed outrage and remorse for the deeds of his nephew, I’m sure there are those who would still like to punish him. It took a lot of courage to step in front of the cameras and say what he did.
As for Islam being the religion of hate…have those who have that point of view read the Koran for themselves, or do they take the word of someone else, like Rush Limbaugh or Alex Jones, Ann Coulter?
Ironically, the Chechens are literally Caucasian, as in “from the Caucasus.” Anthropologists distinguish (or at least used to) between “shame cultures” and “guilt cultures.” That’s a “shame culture.”
But I get what you mean and I take your point.
Let’s keep in mind that two men decided to plant a bomb at the marathon, not an entire group of Muslim people. All the information is not out yet, but when it comes down to it…those brothers chose to do what they did…for whatever crazy reason. Anyone with enough fear and hatred in their heart can do things unimaginable to a sane person.
All of us have hateful thoughts at least once in our lives, the difference is they are thoughts not actions.
Two Muslim men Inge. And I am not condemning the entire religion of Islam – only the 140 million, or so, of them who want you dead.
And how many Christians or Jews, would you say, want that 140 million dead?
Please, spare us your superiority complex.
Ridiculous argument anon – if the 140 million did not want us dead – we would not want them dead. Actually, we don’t necessarily want them dead (unless directly attacked) – we want them to change their hearts.
Tellingly absurd. Do you think that those 140 million who (you assert) would want Inge dead would still feel that way if she converted to Islam and adopted conservative ethos?
No? Then they too “want [people] to change their hearts.”
Historically, “we” (western countries and their leaders) have wanted plenty more than 140 million dead if they rejected colonialism and imperialism. Perhaps that may be news to you.
Skally,
I think you exaggerate. Have you asked all 140 million if they want me dead or are you depending on Alex Jones to do that for you?
I don’t think the media demanded any such thing from him. Perhaps he was embarrassed by his wife, and sister in law’s comments, and thought his honor demanded he speak bluntly as a patriarch in that family.Thankfully, there’s no real detectable Islamophobia spreading because of this, but perhaps some heightened scrutiny on who we allow to come… and remain in the states is in order.
Steve – Islamophobia is largely a myth. Recognition of the very real threat of radical Islam is not Islamophobia.
Skallywag, I respectfully disagree with you. There are plenty of Congress members who suffer from Islamophobia. Did you forget …
http://www.npr.org/2012/09/03/159378918/fears-about-shariah-law-take-hold-in-tennessee
http://www.mediaite.com/online/anti-sharia-gop-lawmakers-confuse-mop-sink-for-muslim-foot-washing-station/
And you are familiar with the phrase “shit runs down hill?”
No they wouldn’t want Inge dead – but they sure as hell would want you and me dead.
You bore me.
If we converted to a Salafi-style Islam? No, I don’t think that they’d want either of us dead.
If bored, I think that you know the way to the exit.
EJordan extremist praises Boston bombing
By JAMAL HALABY
— Apr. 15 6:40 PM EDT
AMMAN, Jordan (AP) — The head of an extremist Jordanian Muslim Salafi group said early Tuesday that he was “happy to see the horror in America” after the explosions in Boston.
“American blood isn’t more precious than Muslim blood,” said Mohammad al-Chalabi, who was convicted in an al-Qaida-linked plot to attack U.S. and other Western diplomatic missions in Jordan in 2003.
WHY would he would make such a statement?
Iraq.
Americans (mostly christians) attacked an entire country based on obvious bullshit because we wanted REVENGE. Before the war you could hear all the good american/christian patriots screaming “NUKE IRAQ!”. It was a western style Jihad.
Maybe we didn’t “nuke ’em”, but we sure did destroy their country, killing, maiming, torturing and displacing millions.
It still isn’t over for the Iraqi people, they deal with bombings constantly and that kind of violence was unheard of before we attacked them. Then there’s the pollution from our little “jihad”, 15% of babies born in Fallujah are born with major deformities and that’s just one city. I wonder how many american/christians know about the extant of our torture? Raping boys with fluorescent light bulbs ring any bells?
And now americans want to pretend that our shit doesn’t stink.
No one has been held accountable for the “war of choice”and most of us good patriotic american/christians can’t be bothered to know what we did there or even care.
Surprise! This is our karma and it’s going to continue because … we’ve earned it.
Just a FEW facts;
Population of Iraq: 30 million.
Number of Iraqis killed in attacks in November 2011: 187
Number of Iraqis who died of violence 2003-2011: 150,000 to 400,000.
Percentage of Iraqis who lived in slum conditions in 2000: 17
Percentage of Iraqis who live in slum conditions in 2011: 50
Number of the 30 million Iraqis living below the poverty line: 7 million.
Orphans in Iraq: 4.5 million.
Orphans living in the streets: 600,000.
Number of women, mainly widows, who are primary breadwinners in family: 2 million.
Iraqi refugees displaced by the American war to Syria: 1 million
Internally displaced [pdf] persons in Iraq: 1.3 million
Proportion of displaced persons who have returned home since 2008: 1/8
Rank of Iraq on Corruption Index among 182 countries: 175
http://web.mit.edu/humancostiraq/
NOT ALL Americans, not even close.
But please feel free to make generalities the hallmark in your attempt to assassinate the character of ALL Americans.
Carry on…
Sorry, but you’re wrong Carl. We as a nation attacked Iraq, that means EVERY AMERICAN is responsible and has blood on their hands.
We have not been attacked by ANY muslim nation, only by individuals, terrorist organizations and their splinter groups.
Why so?
Americans align themselves or disassociate themselves from things this country does all the time. On the one hand it’s “Yay, America did that.” On the other hand it’s “Well I never supported that policy.”
But can we really have it both ways?
Are you defending the Iraq war or just the fact that we’re all responsible or maybe you think the US was attacked by Afghanistan and/or Iraq? What part exactly is a “giant load of crap”.
Oh, I forgot, piss and moan about Ryan’s incivility, whaaaah!
This is exactly why I want religion out of politics. Every country whose leaders think they are backed up by some judgemental God needs to have a psychiatric evaluation. Its all about my God is better than your God and I will prove it by blowing shit up.
I see that anonster is an accolite of “America’s chickens have come to roost” – Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
I see that skallywag is an accolite (sic) of the “America can do no wrong we never make any poor foreign policy decisions and even if we do then fuck it we’re America.”
Did he apologize for the mass murdering and maiming contingent of his religion? if he didn’t do that his apology is incomplete.
anonster says that “we have not been attacked by any muslim nation” Maybe if they started wearing uniforms and bearing colors we could be more selective about those of them that we eliminate.
“Al Qaeda-linked plot to attack passenger train broken up by Canadian, U.S. authorities”
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/04/22/canadian-police-announce-arrests-suspects-planning-major-terrorist-attack/#ixzz2RETEFVu5
I’ll restate my original question – the first comment in this article. Is it okay to recognize and be vigilant of the danger of radical Islam? And to further recognize that this is not “Islamophobia.”
Southern Poverty Law Center has documented 104 (through 12/2012) right wing terrorist “plots, conspiracies and racist rampages since 1995 (I won’t post them all here but I suggest you check out the appalling and scary list);
Terror From the Right: Plots, Conspiracies and Racist Rampages Since Oklahoma City
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/terror-from-the-right#.UXW3p44c9FI
******
Is it okay to recognize and be vigilant of the danger of radical right wingers? And to further recognize that this is not “right-wing phobia.”
******
From Americans Against The Tea Party;
Number of Anti-Government ‘Patriot’ Groups Skyrocketing
By AATTP Contributor, Han Chimpson
“Anyone who has witnessed all the hatred and conspiracy theories which have relentlessly riddled President Obama’s term so far won’t be shocked at all by the headline. After all, President Obama is quite the divisive figure, and much of it has to do with his name, his race, and his background, as well as Fox News-fueled distortions of his politics. To put it plainly, he’s just different than most of his largely white and rural detractors are, and that scares the pork and beans out of them.
According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the number of conspiracy-minded anti-government “Patriot” groups reached an all-time high of 1,360 in 2012, while the number of hard-core hate groups remained above 1,000. For the sake of comparison, the highest number of such groups during the years when George W. Bush was exclusively in office (2001-2008) was 171, in 2003.
As soon as President Obama took office, the number jumped from 149 in 2008 to 512 in 2009, and has nearly tripled since then.”
The Southern Poverty Law Center is a joke – is that all you’ve got?
You know, it’s really amusing how you come on here and dismiss a comment that at least presents SOME legitimate evidence with a sweeping statement.
Is that all you’ve got?
Just for arguments sake…what if the bomber was Pakistani and said the reason he blew up the marathon was in retaliation for the U.S. killing civilians with drones in Pakistan?
Lets take it a step further. It was a drone that killed people at the marathon — sent from a foreign gov. because they were after who they believed to be a terrorist that was watching the race. Innocent civilians were killed instead. How would we like that? I am betting that drone strike would be seen as an act of war…why is it ok to kill people in other countries with drones and not ok for them to do it to us?
Shouldn’t our real foreign policies be examined? My guess is they never will…why? weapons of war and I am including firearms sold in the good ole USA…make lots of money for all involved. There simply is no profit margin in peace.
*Inge, surprisingly…..Saudi Arabia is the 5th largest buyer of Military Arms and Defense Weapons in the world. How is that possible…that a country of no more than 28 million ….buys that much stuff? Where do they buy it from? Might be an interesting study to find out…..wouldn’t it?
Good to know re last week’s busted terrorists “Muslims Foil Terror Plot On Canadian Train With Imam’s Tips”
http://t.co/OlZPpGkwm5
thumbs up for this as well: “Boston mosque refuses to host funeral for Tamerlan Tsarnaev” http://t.co/Y3uPgJk3yX
So, skally, I don’t have time to get into a discussion with you on this point for about a week, but perhaps someone else might:
Given the opinions you’ve expressed here, what if anything do you currently think was wrong — factually, in tone, in opinion, etc. — with Debra Pauly’s notorious and widely reported comments about Muslims at the rally protesting speakers at CAIR a couple of years back.
Would it be appropriate at this point to mark you down as a supporter of what she said? I ask only because much of the OCGOP seems to have been — at least in their public actions — fleeing from it.
Talk to you about it later once I’m out of trial, hopefully by the end of the week.
IMO Pauly’s comments were too harsh. I supported the rally, in general, to protest the radical Islamist speakers.
What parts of the comments did you find too harsh? You’d be willing to associate yourself with the rest of them, I presume? I’m interested in where you draw the line.
Her comments should have differentiated the radical Islamists who were speaking at the event from the attending congregation. Her comments were misdirected and were not appropriate for the purposes of the rally. Also, I do not approve of the protesters – not directly associated with the rally – who were yelling at the congregation entering the mosque.
*This story has longer legs than Fred Astair and Ginger Rogers! Some great comments….too. Can’t wait for the forthcoming Drone Strikes……..who, what, where and why? Of course, we will not hear about them for several years……but it is good
to know…..those cops and their relatives in Boston will get even.