I’m sure that for some people this will not be enough — there’s no condemnation of other Councilmembers here, no howl to slake a thirst for blood and vengeance. There’s just human sympathy and understanding; noting the (quite appropriate) steps she took in the immediate wake of the tragedy; laying out various other constructive steps that she has taken in the months since (working within the system and with some people, like Dan Hughes, that critics would like to see removed — but who are still in place and will either help improve the situation or let it become worse); recognizing a balance of interests and respect for the work of the judicial system; and implicitly expressing a trust for voters to make up their own minds about what they think should happen next, now having at hand some of the stark and startling evidence that has previously been kept confidential pending this week’s preliminary hearing.
Some people will find this wanting in all sorts of ways. As someone who does believe in the ability of a well-managed government to work through even such a horrible tragedy, this simply strikes me as good and decent leadership. Maybe Mayor Quirk-Silva could have better capitalized on the situation by politicizing it, but she didn’t — and now people can decide what they think about that.
I think that she’s one of the politicians in the area who knows how to govern humanely and well.
Looks more like damage control to me. I have no idea what sort of “reforms” are in place. The Acting Chief of Police says denies a Culture of Corruption in the FPDeven though he been in charge of the street cops. He says we just haven’t had enough visits to the station. Sharon’s trying to have it both ways. I say:
Ramos: murder
Rincon: multiple sexual batteries
Mejia: grand theft
Major: theft and fraud
Mater: destruction of evidence
Siliceo: wrongful identification resulting in incarceration
Hampton: assault and battery; excessive force; wrongful arrest and perjury
Frank Nguyen: perjury
Blatney: excessive force, manslaughter
Craig: excessive force, manslaughter
Wolfe: accessory to murder
Tong: assault and battery
Goodrich: deliberate misinformation peddled to the public
Occupy that.
I have a better idea, Tony. Those things that you mention are torts as well as crimes. If you think that you have the goods on all of those people, and are not just talking out of your butt, then you can let the victims of these torts know that you’re putting together a civil lawsuit which they are welcome to join as plaintiffs. Given how sure you appear to be about your legal conclusions, getting a huge settlement should be like shooting fish in a barrel, right? And in your case, it would have the additional benefit of destroying the barrel.
Or, maybe you don’t have the courage of your convictions here, and aren’t sure that your assertions could satisfy the legal tests involved. That’s fine, if so — but then why are you trying to beat up Sharon for wanting to let the legal system proceed in its normal fashion?
(That last one was a rhetorical question, by the way; I presume that most people do know why you’re doing it.)
Speaking of talking out of your butt why don’t you quit reproducing campaign material on a city letterhead like it’s some sort of public benefit communication.
Hilarious. You were apologizing for it before you could even finish.
Oh, noes! Tony gets agitated! And he thinks he hears my butt speaking to him!
Speaking of “hilarious,” Generalissimo: the Mayor produces a perfectly appropriate open letter that can finally be published because the damning video of the Thomas killing is released — and you call it merely “campaign material”? You want campaign material, check out “Norby Notes.” People associated with FFFF have been demanding more and better expressions of sympathy from the Council and policy responses from the council members — and you think that the Mayor giving an appropriate response is … illegitimate? Not newsworthy? Something that should not be presented to the public?
Tony, let me ‘splain something: You might be able buy the election for Kiger, Levinson, and Sebourn — that remains to be seen. You might be able to dismantle the Fullerton government entirely, hire a private police force to protect you and your brother and whatever minions you allow onto your property. But you cannot demand to control ALL of the information that goes out to voters, and your complaining that I’m using a blog to let people know what the Mayor said about a critical subject now that she can talk about it just makes you look like some hysterical and hypercontrolling James Bond villain. Relax. Is it too early on the day for you to have a toke?
Oh, I forgot.
Baughman – two year’s theft from the property room. Where’s the inventory, audit, and/or the accomplice?
What about bogus charges brought against innocent people like my brother George who was rung up on a trumped up “hit and run;” and then watch the FPD try to leak the story to embarrass me?
Ditto the phony Chris Norby “domestic violence” case that was leaked by the cops to the Voice of OC(EA).
Mental note for “Tony’s Objects of Affection” file: find out more about George Bushala’s hit and run and Chris Norby’s domestic violence case.
That word “leaked,” though: as I understand it, they went out on a call based on a report of domestic violence. That’s a public action. Are you alleging that they were under a responsibility to keep the report of domestic violence confidential?
Does Norby know that you’re “helping” him like this by reminding people of what you assert is a “phony” case? It just makes me want to see the file.
As the Mother of Four, Mrs. Silva should have learned one thing by now:
YOU CAN’T BE HALF PREGNANT!
That’s what she has appeared all along, far from the decisive leader she could be.
The word is Decisive NOT Divisive. Come on, let’s see some action.
Hey, the name “anon” is already taken — choose a different name, “not the same anon.”
Your position is ludicrous; taking a position that even the police should have due process and that there should be proper investigations rather than just shoving everyone over a cliff and assuming that their replacements will be different is not like “half-pregnancy.” It’s respectful of both the need to get things fixed and the notion that just breaking everything in the joint may be a really poor way to go. For people who want to see the government fail, political life is easy — you just swing a hammer and try to break things. For people who recognize that problems exist but don’t have a childhood fantasy about everyone getting along once all of the police are fired, political life is much more difficult. She’s responding as an adult, not with a tantrum.
Jesus Greg, really? Is that how low you want to set the bar? The family gets a hug, one request to resign and a another bloody task force That’s only three more things than you did, and you aren’t even on the council let alone Mayor.
Add to Tony’s list that she should demand that they retract the false statement that they made about Kelly Thomas. DEMAMD it. It’s no longer debatable.
With due respect, Steve, did you stop reading after the second paragraph? Yes, if all she had done was sympathy for the family and requesting that the police chief resign, the bar would be set very low — though more than half the Council would have still failed to clear it — and why you have a problem with a task force on homelessness, I do not know. (They can be either well done or poorly done, you know.)
However, what she really said also included the following:
– called for the officers to be relieved from duty
– called for the release of the video back in August (which was overruled for reasons most attorneys would appreciate)
– hiring an independent investigator to do a full review of the FPD
– providing additional training to FPD officers in dealing with the mentally ill
– providing additional training to FPD officers in use of force procedures
Those five things, bringing the total to eight, are right there in the letter, Steve. I don’t know how you missed them.
My presumption is that the Mayor would also want to see all false statements about Thomas’s behavior retracted — although the tape is a better rebuttal than anything the city could generate.
I also think that the various charges on Tony’s list should be investigated — and we should be asking the DA why, if there’s compelling evidence, charges won’t be filed. Maybe some are still pending. Or — maybe Tony R. is not doing the job he should be doing.
But here’s the thing about Tony’s “Culture of Corruption” slogan: it is the rare police department (if any exist at all) that will not circle the wagons to defend its officers accused of wrongdoing. (You think that they’re bad, you should try suing employers like I do. People lie when threatened. I’m pretty sure that this isn’t news to Tony B.) Saying that you wants to keep firing people until you come up with police management that won’t do so is likely to be self-defeating. That’s why we have an adversary political and legal system — the police get to defend themselves within certain bounds and others get to challenge them and maybe get them to cough up more than they’d like.
I’ll address Tony’s comments as well separately.
baxter, the political party hacks on the left and right go into immediate spin mode to protect their darlings.
The decision to hire Gennaco was an expensive mistake for Quirk. it was just a ploy to buy time for the FPD and the Three Bald Tires (which it has) and absolve the decision makers of their own responsibility to manage the FPD. The first installment of Gennaco’s report was a lame apology for the “miscommunication” that any idiot could see was deliberate slander of Kelly to protect The Six.
A homeless task force? Another dodge to divert attention from the real issue – an out of control, malicious, undertrained cadre of rogue cops. The Six knew damned well Kelly was schizo and didn’t give a damn. I understand they are now getting training in basic humanity, something their parents teachers, and Sunday schools can’t be counted on to impart.
Additional training? WTF? We pay these HS grads $90K a year with million dollar pensions and now discover they need MORE training? Sharon should be writing outraged letters demanding resignations and denouncing Pat McKinley for the incompetent, dangerous asshole he is. He hired them all.
If I were one of Tony’s unfailingly charitable bloggers, I might derive these lessons from the above regarding Tony’s perspective on the world:
(1) If Tony didn’t pay for it, it’s not newsworthy.
(2) Investigating, rather than summary execution, is for wimps. (Note exception for Chris Norby.)
(3) Homelessness is not “the real issue.” (If I were uncharitable, I’d think that Tony doesn’t actually give a damn about the homeless at all, except when their mistreatment is politically useful for him.)
(4) We don’t need cops at all. Those people who need protection care hire private ones.
(5) Training police is an extravagance.
(6) Sharon should spend her time denouncing fellow Council members rather than engaging in the sorts of constructive policies she describes here, because that’s what governing is all about.
Luckily, I try to be more fair than that, and will presume that Tony just didn’t fully think through his comment before belching it out.
Greg–
I hate to hearken back to my Psych 101 class, but here’s what I see. I think its safe to say at least two of the officers in the Kelly Thomas beating objectified Thomas as just another crazy homeless guy who needed to be dealt with, and nobody really cared what they did to him. To them, he simply wasn’t worth the respect other, “normal” people deserve. Its a classic story of those in authority dehumanizing their victims. Unfortunately, I see the same traits in some of Tony B’s posts, to a much lesser and less lethal degree of course . But he makes blanket condemnations of all sorts of people: all cops are brutal, all public employees are lazy and overpaid, all public officials (except those he supports, of course) are underhanded and corrupt, and all those who don’t share his views are morally or ethically inferior. This is kind of objectification alienates people and just leads to more conflict. As I said before, his persistence in the Kelly Thomas case is admirable, but that doesn’t make him right about everything and everyone else.
Re the Kelly Thomas beating — yes, I think you’re right, though I’d get into psychodynamics, role theory, etc. part of an explanation, as well as the expectation that they would suffer no consequences in their actions.
I want to say that it’s unfair to tar Tony with the same brush, but on re-reading you modulate it himself. I don’t know whether Tony has a Manichean view of the world (which divides the world up into pure good and pure evil), but he does seem to like generalizations and to distrust nuance, which is fairly typical of libertarian conservatives. (By contrast, libertarian progressives are always absolutely perfect, he joked.)
I completely agree with your last paragraph, both parts of it. Unfortunately, I am concerned that he’s going to have his acolytes experiment on Fullerton — which maybe we’ll be able to start calling “Darfullerton” if they really do completely drive the government off a cliff. (Don’t expect him to comment on that; he seems to want to keep his options for advocacy open.)
*The Mayor is a dumbell.
*The Mayor fails to understand that the current arraignment of these folks has nothing at all to do with their prosecution. With halfway decent lawyers…they will probably get off….They will not go to trial….for quite some time….our bet.
“Spiking the football” at kick-off…..doesn’t show much understanding of the process.
Remember Rampart in LA. That process took years. It required the assistance of the State Attorney General and the Feds. This situation is no different. The resolution will require lots of work. Completling the Recall, finding another Police Chief in a National Search as LA did. It will require our D.A. to do his job without grandstanders on the side making stupid Mayoral Proclamations without a resolution.
Even if the Homeless Task Force is a good idea, the Mayor should do this quietly or with the unanimous consent of the whole City Council. That means…..finish the Recall first.
Those of us living behind the Orange Curtain are showing our naivete on this issue and are also showing the big reason why folks in LA….laugh us off….most of the time.
If you really think that they’ll beat these charges despite the evidence, then there’s nothing that the city could have done to get a conviction, so why are you complaining about city government inaction? Oh, wait; your complaint is that the trial will take some time and take work — like it’s supposed to.
I know that Chris Norby is an object of your affection and that’s all that matters, ‘Ships, but complaining about her sending out an open letter “without a resolution” and wishing that a Homeless Task Force be done “quietly” is grasping at straws. What do you think she did wrong here — except speak clearly?
*Dr. Diamond. There is a time to speak and a time to stay silent while legal proceedings move ahead. Your darling SQS opened her fat trap when she should have either made some of that statement in person at a press conference or only directly to the press – but never used “her office” to take any position in an ongoing legal offering. This is called “influence peddling” and is not considered Political or Government Hoyle. It doesn’t matter if she is right or wrong….it will be the first reason
why the defense attorney asks for a change of venue – and will probably get it. Get it?
I keep coming back to “fat trap” and wondering what you mean, but let’s skip that: her statement looks quite carefully crafted not to exceed what she can say without causing legal problems for the case. Your reference to “influence peddling” leaves me confused, slightly dismayed, and for some reason a little itchy.
Tell me this, then, ‘Ships — what’s your view of Bruce Whitaker’s comments over this past year? Oh, and there are worse things that a change of venue; if you see one, you can probably credit FFFF far more than Sharon, because it’s going to make jury selection a real fiasco.
*Bruce Whitaker is a Councilmember. They represent usually their Councilmatic Districts or in this case 20% of the Fullerton constituentcy. He can say whatever he wants because he does not represent the city. The Mayor does! The total and unbelieveable lack of basic government knowledge by some electeds is astounding.
The Mayor….be it Tony V in LA, Rahm Emanuel in Chicago or Bloomberg in NYC represent the entire City. They have to be careful that they do not enter into speculation with ongoing legal proceedings. Whitaker can call the Fullerton Chief of Police a moron. Bruce represents 20% of the dias. If the Mayor was to do that….things could be very different and the Chief could then sue the City of Fullerton for slander or worse. He could still sue Bruce or anyone that called him that ….but who in the world would listen? Using your office to influence public opinion is of course always an important tool of government. When you represent 100% of the constituents however….this is now considered “Influence Peddling”.
I am so sick and tired of hearing the same old crap when you lot defend your inaction on Kelly Thomas with your committees and tasks force on the homeless, that serve as a means to pad your resume and go to a gala at the end of the year, more than better the lives of our most marginalized.
Perhaps it’s better than nothing, but Kelly Thomas did not die from being homeless, he did not die of hunger or exposure, he was executed by cops. Sellers was asked to resign by Quirk and i was grateful for that, but 9 months later, all the police sergeants, captains and lieutenants, who watched the video long before the rest of us, then lied about Kelly being the aggressor and then allowed 5 of the 6 police officers, who were involved in the murder to continue to patrol our streets and free to harm others for another six weeks, are still employed, and suffer no consequences. Goodrich has in fact since been promoted.
I EXPECT THE MAYOR, SOMEONE WHO I HAVE SUPPORTED SINCE BEFORE SHE EVEN TOOK OFFICE, TO DEMAND THAT PEOPLE LIKE GOODRICH CORRECT THE RECORD AND CLEAR KELLY’S NAME, AND THEN TO DO ALL SHE CAN TO SEE THAT THEY ARE FIRED OR DEMOTED. (btw – please advise, can a private citizen file a class action law suit on behalf of the citizens of Fullerton for the Police putting all of our lives at risk by not putting them on admin leave that same day?)
As far as the task force in concerned – lets you, me, and Sharon Quirk-Silva go down to one of the many places where the homeless congregated at night in Fullerton (not a shelter where the photo opps are taken, the real deal at night) and lets see which one of us they know by name and are happy to see. Fuck you and fuck off. And when you have sufficiently fucked yourself off, ask yourself why you have alienated someone like me, a life long Democrat with a history of activism, to the point of changing to independent. Last night i told a house which was filled with progressive leaning guests, all invited by me, that Matt Rowe, not Doug Chaffee, had my full support. Your’re welcome.
Hey Bax, lotsa good points. But it’s unclear whom this is addressed to. If you’re saying “fuck you and fuck off” to Greg Diamond for his non-involvement with the homeless, you’re making a big mistake. Fullerton homeless maybe, but along with Occupy Santa Ana he’s been crucial to helping the homeless there….
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2012/04/occupy-santa-ana-kicks-off-17-hours-of-action-for-homeless-at-200/
and much more here
http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/category/homeless/
Hopefully you were thinking about someone else.
OK, let’s have it out. This deserves a larger audience, so here we go. I’ll try to have a post up in an hour.
The letter reads like what an establishment politician would say. In this case, people taking comfort in institutions assumes faith in them in the first place. Thank God enough people rallied and raised hell to apply pressure to arrive even at this imperfect moment.
Read my article today, GSR. I’ve now looked at the full video several times. (OK, I skipped a little of the boring stuff at the end.) Have you watched the whole thing?
SQS is currently on her last legs…..she needs to embrace the consciousness of forgiveness and stay aboard the Fullerton City Council and repleat with a unanimous resolution to the new Chief issue, the new Recall players, the water issue and show some leadership. Should she do so…….then….and only then…..can she consider leaving the Fullerton City Council and finding a new position at the State level.