The Muslim Student Union at the University of California at Irvine (UCI) is appealing a suspension they received after 11 Muslim students were arrested during Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren’s speech on campus in February. Those 11 students stood up one at a time and yelled during Oren’s presentation and were subsequently detained, according to the O.C. Register.
I looked at the video above and sure enough, it looked like the disruption was planned.
That said, I asked myself, who is this guy Michael Oren?
Here are excerpts from his bio.:
Michael B. Oren is the State of Israel’s Ambassador to the United States.
A graduate of Princeton and Columbia, Dr. Oren has received fellowships from the U.S. Departments of State and Defense, and from the British and Canadian governments. Formerly, he was the Lady Davis Fellow of Hebrew University, a Moshe Dayan Fellow at Tel-Aviv University, and the Distinguished Fellow at the Shalem Center in Jerusalem. He has been a visiting professor at Harvard, Yale, and Georgetown.
Ambassador Oren has written extensively for The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and The New Republic, where he was a contributing editor. His two most recent books, Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East and Power, Faith, and Fantasy: America in the Middle East, 1776 to the Present, were both New York Times bestsellers. They won the Los Angeles Times’ History Book of the Year prize, a National Council of the Humanities Award, and the National Jewish Book Award.
Raised in New Jersey, where he was an activist in Zionist youth movements and a gold medal winning athlete in the Maccabia Games, Ambassador Oren moved to Israel in the 1970s. He served as an officer in the Israel Defense Forces, in the paratroopers in the Lebanon War, a liaison with the U.S. Sixth Fleet during the Gulf War, and an IDF spokesman during the Second Lebanon War and the Gaza operation in January 2009. He acted as an Israeli Emissary to Jewish refuseniks in the Soviet Union, as an advisor to Israel’s delegation to the United Nations, and as the government’s director of Inter-Religious Affairs. He has testified before Congress and briefed the White House on Middle Eastern affairs.
Interesting. This guy Oren is no common diplomat. He has Arab blood on his hands. Now you could argue how that came to be, but the fact is I can understand why Muslim students might not be happy to welcome this man to their campus.
American students of color have a long history of protesting perceived wrongs. Check out the video below, which chronicles what happend when African American students conducted mass sit-ins in restaurants that barred them because they were black. I am sure that in that time they were viewed as negatively as the Muslim students in question.
These Muslim students aren’t monsters, I don’t think. They are brave individuals who risked everything for what they thought waas right.
Israel has done the wrong thing in the Middle East for a long time including attacking a peaceful flotilla recently that was trying to deliver non-military supplies to Gaza. It should then come as no surprise that Muslim students at UCI aren’t too keen on guys like Oren coming to their campus.
That begs the question, why was Oren there? What did UCI hope to accomplish? Isn’t it a bit inflammatory to invite professional members of the military, who are now in the guise as diplomats, to a campus with a large Muslim population?
And to make matters worse, the MSU is a religious organization. The suspension will affect hundreds of Muslim students who attend regular Friday prayers, worship and socialize together, according to an MSU spokesman.
Protests are never pretty. When American patriots broke into a shipyard and stole tea from a merchant ship, and threw it in the Boston Harbor, it was an act of terrorism that we celebrate today as an act of patriotism.
When those African American students conducted sit-ins in the 1960’s, the white residents in those towns didn’t like it. But civil rights prevailed.
When Mexican students were segregated, right here in Orange County, the Mendez family spoke up and filed a lawsuit. I am sure they were vilified then. Today they are heroes.
Perhaps when there is finally peace in the Middle East, and Israel stops mistreating the people of Palestine, we might one day look back at what the MSU students did at UCI and find a new perspective. Or perhaps not. In these dark times Americans find it all too easy to hate. Just look at what many Orange County residents think of Mexican immigrants…
I’d say they are heros. Can you imagine how hard it must be to stand up against the forces that don’t want them to speak? It’s important to remember that after WWII, the Jewish people didn’t say never again. What they said was never again TO US! What a sad irony that they are treating others as they were once treated. Pray for peace in the Middle East.
Without getting into the politics of who is right or who is wrong between Israel and the Palestinians, or who has wronged whom the most I think the following are important to keep in mind:
1) We are democracy. And in a democracy all points should have a chance to be heard and debated. And in my opinion, this should be the case, unless the speaker is inciting outright violence and is inciting for rights and protections to be violated.
2) I think it was improper for the MSU to disrupt the meeting in an orchestrated fashion, and because they prevented others from hearing Ambassador Oren’s views.
3) The MSU group also lost a golden opportunity to challenge Ambassador Oren, especially if they thought he was lying, and if they provided facts to support such a lie.
4) Art, you state, “why was Oren there? What did UCI hope to accomplish? Isn’t it a bit inflammatory to invite professional members of the military, who are now in the guise as diplomats, to a campus with a large Muslim population?”
My Response:
I don’t think it is improper to invite a former military professional from speaking especially one who is now an official diplomat. For example, retired General Colin Powell, former Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, and former National Security Adviser became the top US diplomat, as our former Secretary of State. I would not want to “drown out” someone from speaking just because of past military service.
What should be properly challenged is what their current stance or policy view IS, or if in their prior record there is proof of dishonorable or unlawful military service. However, none of this is clear because this was never allowed to be aired.
5) Everyone should stand up for their principles, but they should be prepared to pay the consequences, if any. The MSU members disrupted the meeting, but they did NOT resist arrest or threaten anyone as far as we can see from the video. So they should face some disciplinary action, but NOT judicial action. This should also be determined in the context of a university campus, and what the written policy is, or what the prior practice has been when this has happened.
6) You quoted: “And to make matters worse, the MSU is a religious organization. The suspension will affect hundreds of Muslim students who attend regular Friday prayers, worship and socialize together, according to an MSU spokesman.”
My Response:
I am not sure it is clear why or how the suspension might affect their religious practices.
7) You state, “This guy Oren is no common diplomat. He has Arab blood on his hands.”
My Response:
I think it would be good to know in what context Ambassador Oren has “Arab blood in his hands.”
It seems that to put in perspective, unfortunately there is blood being spilled on BOTH sides.
But this also raises a key distinction and some other points:
a) Not all Arabs are Muslim. And not every Muslim is an Arab.
b) Many Arabs are Christian, and they are persecuted in Muslim lands.
c) Many Muslims are Persian, Japanese, and American, etc.
Separately:
8) In my opinion, a true lasting peace and solution will only be achieved through diplomatic means.
I think a true solution will be accomplished with a TWO state solution, in which Israel’s security is ensured both internally and with its close neighbors; and in which there is also a Palestinian state with full rights and sovereignty for its citizens.
9) The US must also act more of a NEUTRAL participant and not be perceived as UNFAIRLY taking sides; otherwise, this is a detriment to the US interests and for the security of US citizens traveling abroad.
I think sometimes US interests are compromised when the US is perceived as not being Fair; or objective, or when it puts the interests of one ally ahead of those of the US because of undue influence by any lobby.
Francisco “Paco” Barragan
My opinions only and not those of any group
Francisco,
Good response! If nothing else this episode should be a starting point for such dialogue.
Oren by the way is no Powell. He is not an American warrior, for one thing.
And Lord knows what exactly Oren has done. The Israeli military is very secretive and is prone to breaking international laws.
I agree that the mess in the Middle East begs for a peaceful resolution. Dream on though. Neither side wants to relent.
As for the MSU’s organized disruption, how was that different from the organized sit-ins of the 60’s?
It was raw and offensive, to many, but I think it was heartfelt. Who are we to judge these students?
Art,
Thanks for this post, which can generate further debate.
Also, an important but tragic anniversary was achieved this past June 8th (from an incident of 1967)…which involved Israel.
I wonder how many people know about the USS Liberty incident: as a starting point see:
http://www.gtr5.com/
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html
thanks,
Francisco
The MSU at UC Irvine invites Amir-Abdel Malik-Ali to speak all too often (which is for me any invitation!) Aside from that, the incident in question does not warrant the putative measures metered out. Oren has been doing the American media rounds whitewashing the Flotilla massacre with outrageous lies. Whether you are a fan of disrupting public speakers (planned or not) it’s hard to see why a one-year suspension is warranted in this case. Disruption is a classic protest move and you will see Code Pink people do it all the time at DC hearings. The raza students at Columbia shouted down Jim Gilchrist years ago when he spoke there. I don’t recall them being hit up by the administration in the aftermath. Bad move Dean Chimerensky.
any one can protest . its the american way . BUT WHEN YOU START GETING IN THE WAY OF MY RIGHTS AND OTHER PEOPLES RIGHTS . then it has to stop . a good example are the things gabriel san roman posted . also another example is those people that stopped traffic in los angeles , santa,ana , and costa mesa , causing giants delays . thats when i say enough
The great one,
Will you and do you say the same for the Tea Baggers?
Teal Party protest acions:
On March 20, 2010, before the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Bill was voted on by lawmakers, it was reported that protesters against the bill used racial and homophobic slurs. Several black lawmakers said that demonstrators shouted “nigger” at them.[149][150] Congressman Emanuel Cleaver said he was spat upon, and Congressman Barney Frank, who is gay, was called a “faggot.”[151][149] Representative André Carson said that as he walked from the House office building with Representative John Lewis, amid chants of “Kill the bill” he heard the “n – word at least 15 times”.[152] One man “just rattled it off several times.” Carson quoted Lewis as saying, “You know, this reminds me of a different time.”[153][153]
Economist and prominent black conservative Thomas Sowell told the Washington Post, “This is a serious charge — and one deserving of some serious evidence,” Sowell said. “But, despite all the media recording devices on the scene, not to mention recording devices among the crowd gathered there, nobody can come up with a single recorded sound to back up that incendiary charge. Worse yet, some people have claimed that even doubting the charge suggests that you are a racist.”[142] The National Tea Party Federation sent a letter to the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) denouncing racism and requesting that the CBC supply any evidence of the alleged events at the protest on March 20, 2010.[154] House Republican leaders criticized the use of slurs against the Democratic congressmen by the protesters, but said they were isolated incidents that shouldn’t overshadow the health care debate. House Minority Leader John Boehner, called the incidents “reprehensible”, and House Minority Whip Eric Cantor said, “Nobody condones that at all. There were 30,000 people here in Washington yesterday. And, yes, there were some very awful things said.” As demonstrators gathered the following day outside the Capitol to rally against the bill again, one held a sign saying, “All tea partiers: If you hear a racial slur, step away, point, boo and take a picture of the rat bastard.”[155]
On March 21, 2010, Springboro Tea Party founder, Sonny Thomas, posted racist slurs against Hispanics on the group’s Twitter webpage, including one post that said, “Illegals everywhere today! So many spics makes me feel like a speck. Grrr. Wheres my gun!?”. The posts triggered cancellations by several local and statewide political candidates scheduled to speak at a Springboro Tea Party rally on April 17. Other Tea Party officials say the posts were “classless” and way out of line, but say they don’t represent the Tea Party movement as a whole.[156]
On March 22, 2010, a Lynchburg, Virginia Tea Party activist, attempting to post the home address of Congressman Tom Perriello on his blog, incorrectly posted the address of Perriello’s brother, who also lives in Virginia, and encouraged readers to “drop by” to express their anger against Rep. Perriello’s vote in favor of the health care bill. The following day, a severed gas line was discovered in Perriello’s brother’s yard which connected to a propane grill on the home’s screened-in porch. Local police and FBI investigators determined that it was intentionally cut as a deliberate act of vandalism. The website issued a response saying the Tea Party member’s action of posting the address “was not requested, sanctioned or endorsed” by the group.[157][158][159]
Tea Party Express leader Mark Williams referred to the Muslim god as a “Monkey God” (and by proxy calling the Christian God the same, as both religions technically worship the same figure). Williams’ comments elicited strong rebukes from New York City Mayor Bloomberg, NY State Senators and Muslim leaders. In a subsequent blog posting, Williams said, “I owe an apology,” he wrote on his blog, “to millions of Hindus who worship Lord Hanuman, an actual Monkey God. Hanuman is worshiped as a symbol of perseverance, strength, and devotion … Those are hardly the traits of whatever the Hell (literally) it is that terrorists worship.” When questioned by the Washington Post about his comments about Islam and Obama, Williams has claimed the controversy has “been fantastic for the movement.” [160][161]
[edit] Astroturfing claims
Allegations of “astroturfing” appeared in a Playboy article by Mark Ames and Yasha Levine in February 2009. The article was removed after libel claims, but no legal action materialized. The authors repeated and elaborated their allegations elsewhere—that the tea party protests were a “carefully organized and sophisticated PR campaign . . .”[162][163] On October 3, 2009, David H. Koch said the tea party protests fulfilled “the vision” of the board of directors of the conservative political advocacy group Americans for Prosperity when it was founded in 2004.[164]
In a New York Times op-ed column by economist Paul Krugman, writing that “the tea parties don’t represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They’re AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey.”[165]
On tax day April 15, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi stated “It’s not really a grassroots movement. It’s astroturf by some of the wealthiest people in America to keep the focus on tax cuts for the rich instead of for the great middle class.”[166]
According to Atlantic Monthly, the three main groups that provide guidance and organization for the protests FreedomWorks, dontGO, and Americans for Prosperity state that the demonstrations are an organic movement.[167] Law professor and commentator Glenn Reynolds, best known as author of the Instapundit political blog, argued in The New York Post that: “These aren’t the usual semiprofessional protesters who attend antiwar and pro-union marches. These are people with real jobs; most have never attended a protest march before. They represent a kind of energy that our politics hasn’t seen lately, and an influx of new activists.”[168] Conservative political strategist Tim Phillips, now head of Americans for Prosperity, has remarked that the Republican Party is “too disorganized and unsure of itself to pull this off.”[9]
April 15, 2009 protest in Hartford, Connecticut.[edit] Use of term teabagger
The term teabagger emerged after protesters displayed placards using the words “tea bag” as a verb,[169][170] mixing the sexual meaning (teabagging) with “Mailing Tea Bags to Washington, DC” in protest.[171] The label has prompted additional puns by both commentators and protesters[172] based on pre-existing sexual meaning of the word.[173]
The term teabagger emerged after protesters displayed placards using the words “tea bag” as a verb,[169][170] mixing the sexual meaning (teabagging) with “Mailing Tea Bags to Washington, DC” in protest.[171] The label has prompted additional puns by both commentators and protesters[172] based on pre-existing sexual meaning of the word.[173]
I guess that’s why Dentists wear masks when they tell people to open up and say AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
DOCTOR YES IF YOU SHOW ME WHERE A TEA PARTY STOPPED SOMEONE ELSE FROM DOING THEIR THING . ALL YOUR LONG WINDED POSTS . NO TEA PARTY HAS STOPPED TRAFFIC IN A AREA TO PROTEST THEIR VIEW . . and if you bring up the SO CALLED SPITTING INCEDENT ON THE CONGRESSMAN FUNNY ALL THOSE Cameras and police near bye and no one saw anything . also if i wanted too i can find many articals to counter yours i just dont want to spend all day looking for stuff i got better things to do also here is another one for you .renember members of a union tossing eggs at tea party buses at a harry reid rally .
the great one,
You are correct protesters will cause disruptions. So don’t be a hypocrite by mentioning groups you dislike and in your criticism exclude you group.
I also have examples where as you say ” WHERE A TEA PARTY STOPPED SOMEONE ELSE FROM DOING THEIR THING .” I can post them if you want.
you might not find example below offensive because you support the Tea baggers. I believe many find them as or more offensive than stopping traffic.
If you find stopping traffic more offnensive we should take notice and take precautions with your kind.
a severed gas line was discovered in Perriello’s brother’s yard which connected to a propane grill on the home’s screened-in porch. Local police and FBI investigators determined that it was intentionally cut as a deliberate act of vandalism.
Tea Party Express leader Mark Williams referred to the Muslim god as a “Monkey God” (and by proxy calling the Christian God the same, as both religions technically worship the same figure).
On March 21, 2010, Springboro Tea Party founder, Sonny Thomas, posted racist slurs against Hispanics on the group’s Twitter webpage, including one post that said, “Illegals everywhere today! So many spics makes me feel like a speck. Grrr. Wheres my gun!?”.
Several black lawmakers said that demonstrators shouted “nigger” at them.[149][150] Congressman Emanuel Cleaver said he was spat upon, and Congressman Barney Frank, who is gay, was called a “faggot.”[151][149] Representative André Carson said that as he walked from the House office building with Representative John Lewis, amid chants of “Kill the bill” he heard the “n – word at least 15 times”
art lomeli
Posted June 19, 2010 at 1:04 PM
The great one,
Will you and do you say the same for the Tea Baggers?
The great one wrote:
DOCTOR YES IF YOU SHOW ME WHERE A TEA PARTY STOPPED SOMEONE ELSE FROM DOING THEIR THING .
Tactics
The New York Times reported on August 8, 2009 that organizations opposed to the health insurance reform legislation were urging opponents to be disruptive. It noted that the Tea Party Patriots web site circulated a memo instructing them to “Pack the hall. Yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early. Get him off his prepared script and agenda. Stand up and shout and sit right back down.”[113] The memo continued, “The Rep [representative] should be made to feel that a majority, and if not, a significant portion of at least the audience, opposes the socialist agenda of Washington.”[114]
Some Tea party organizers have stated that they look to leftist radical Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals for inspiration. Protesters have also appropriated left-wing imagery; the logo for the 9/12 March on Washington featured a raised fist design that was intended to resemble those used by pro-labor, anti-war, and black power movements of the 1960s. In addition, the slogan “Keep Your Laws Off My Body”, usually associated with pro-choice activists, has been seen on signs at tea parties.[115]
is this the same n y times who make up stories , who is so far left so anti tea party . yes i am gonna belive them ..look doc the nuts are on both sides. do i think all tea parties are angles of course not . but when your kind labels them as astro turf . or fake or a bunch of racist nuts like gralafalo , and the other cooks on msnbc .. and some of the you know who on this site .
Great one,
What about Chris Simcox, the co-founder of the Minutemen who fled to the Arizona desert this week after cops started looking for him? He threatened his own wife and kids! You were silent on our post about that guy – and he is a tea party leader in Arizona!
the great one,
The LA Times did not produce the story as an opinion. Read the article more closely. There are also countless videos of their disruptive behavior. I guess you won’t believe your eyes either.
” It noted that the Tea Party Patriots web site circulated a memo instructing them to “Pack the hall. Yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early.”
They refer you the reader to the Tea Party website.
You make generalities about people,groups,cultures and activists along with the best of those you criticise. Do not be hypocritical.
Free Palestine
I used to support Israel unconditionally. I feel sympathy for the underdog. I used to admire the brave and determined Israelis–so small and vulnerable in the face of widespread rejection of them. Israel being a nation is the fulfillment of ancient prophesy. A marvel before our eyes.
And yet…
Over the years I see they have become more and more like their enemies. Assassins. Unwilling to negotiate. Rude to their allies. For a people known for their bargaining abilities, I’m saddened to say I support Israel conditionally — but, only allowing Palestinians to exist in Palestine, too.
I take it spelling is not one of the things you’re great at.
last post.. your a genious . what a great comment you bring to the discussion . did you need help with that one . WHEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY LIKE YOU .. .rip on a spelling error . . i guess posting a comment on here is something your not great at . and zorro simcox ok also i renember when your group tossed coke cans at jim gilchrist .and let me add the cans where full and then try to say people where running them over .. these people are not heroes. ..