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	<title>Comments on: New Campaign to &#8216;Legalize Democracy!&#8217;</title>
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	<description>Orange County&#039;s top political blog</description>
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		<title>By: Vern Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/12/new-campaign-to-legalize-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-114478</link>
		<dc:creator>Vern Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=34573#comment-114478</guid>
		<description>NLFTP.  Maybe you perceive some sort of logical connective tissue between your first and second paragraph, but I sure don&#039;t.  Your quote from me (which is actually from ReclaimDemocracy.org but I don&#039;t mind getting credit for it) shows that corporations have way outsized power to get whatever legislation they want; in fact they usually write it themselves; it&#039;s us citizens that get the shaft.

And this &quot;if it&#039;s good enough for most states&quot; is some weak-ass tea.  Those states should change this practice too, although only California and the US are my problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NLFTP.  Maybe you perceive some sort of logical connective tissue between your first and second paragraph, but I sure don&#8217;t.  Your quote from me (which is actually from ReclaimDemocracy.org but I don&#8217;t mind getting credit for it) shows that corporations have way outsized power to get whatever legislation they want; in fact they usually write it themselves; it&#8217;s us citizens that get the shaft.</p>
<p>And this &#8220;if it&#8217;s good enough for most states&#8221; is some weak-ass tea.  Those states should change this practice too, although only California and the US are my problems.</p>
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		<title>By: (No Longer) First Time Poster</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/12/new-campaign-to-legalize-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-114474</link>
		<dc:creator>(No Longer) First Time Poster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=34573#comment-114474</guid>
		<description>Vern said that after bringing so-called change to &quot;public health insurance and taking on Wall Street, President Obama and Congress have demonstrated they either are unwilling or unable to challenge the power of pharmaceutical, insurance, and financial corporations to correct our nation’s most urgent problems.&quot;

Sounds like now, more than ever, corporations and other business entities need First Amendment rights, including the right to make political donations!  If its good enough for most states, who permit business entities to express their speech rights, its good enough for federal elections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vern said that after bringing so-called change to &#8220;public health insurance and taking on Wall Street, President Obama and Congress have demonstrated they either are unwilling or unable to challenge the power of pharmaceutical, insurance, and financial corporations to correct our nation’s most urgent problems.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like now, more than ever, corporations and other business entities need First Amendment rights, including the right to make political donations!  If its good enough for most states, who permit business entities to express their speech rights, its good enough for federal elections.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Benson</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/12/new-campaign-to-legalize-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-114465</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=34573#comment-114465</guid>
		<description>I am in favor of it, and yes natural persons ( individuals only) should be the only ones allowed to contribute in a limited amount to campaigns. 

Additionally I realize that it takes money to get your message out, so to replace the corperate,union and other groups donations there needs to be publivc financing.

Then Candidates can tell you without worring what large donors or groups will do about there positions.

Allowing those indivisduals or groups with lots of money to have more free speech because they have the ablity to buy advertizing while the average person cannot, resticts the average persons right to free speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in favor of it, and yes natural persons ( individuals only) should be the only ones allowed to contribute in a limited amount to campaigns. </p>
<p>Additionally I realize that it takes money to get your message out, so to replace the corperate,union and other groups donations there needs to be publivc financing.</p>
<p>Then Candidates can tell you without worring what large donors or groups will do about there positions.</p>
<p>Allowing those indivisduals or groups with lots of money to have more free speech because they have the ablity to buy advertizing while the average person cannot, resticts the average persons right to free speech.</p>
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		<title>By: Rogue Elephant</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/12/new-campaign-to-legalize-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-114455</link>
		<dc:creator>Rogue Elephant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 19:19:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=34573#comment-114455</guid>
		<description>Hmmm. So, you&#039;re saying that only &quot;natural persons&quot; have a right to free speech?  

Okay, what about other businesses?  Partnerships?  Sole proprietorships?

What about associations?  Labor unions?  They aren&#039;t natural persons, either.  So, we should curtail their political speech, as well?

You&#039;re going to pick and choose?  Maybe that&#039;s why the Constitution says, &quot;Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech&quot;.  

Now, the Supreme Court has said that no right is absolute (unlimited).  The court upheld McCain-Feingold, which clearly abridges political speech (the core of First Amendment protection).  Do you approve?

I thought liberals cared about free speech.  Guess not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm. So, you&#8217;re saying that only &#8220;natural persons&#8221; have a right to free speech?  </p>
<p>Okay, what about other businesses?  Partnerships?  Sole proprietorships?</p>
<p>What about associations?  Labor unions?  They aren&#8217;t natural persons, either.  So, we should curtail their political speech, as well?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re going to pick and choose?  Maybe that&#8217;s why the Constitution says, &#8220;Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Now, the Supreme Court has said that no right is absolute (unlimited).  The court upheld McCain-Feingold, which clearly abridges political speech (the core of First Amendment protection).  Do you approve?</p>
<p>I thought liberals cared about free speech.  Guess not.</p>
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		<title>By: Vern Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/12/new-campaign-to-legalize-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-114450</link>
		<dc:creator>Vern Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=34573#comment-114450</guid>
		<description>Oh.  And THEN the First Amendment comes into it.  The corporations have unlimited right of &quot;free speech&quot;, which courts have interpreted as spending money on advertisements and lobbying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh.  And THEN the First Amendment comes into it.  The corporations have unlimited right of &#8220;free speech&#8221;, which courts have interpreted as spending money on advertisements and lobbying.</p>
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		<title>By: Vern Nelson</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/12/new-campaign-to-legalize-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-114447</link>
		<dc:creator>Vern Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=34573#comment-114447</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s true, Winger.  Corporate personhood grew out of one supreme court judge&#039;s decision on a railroad case in which he interpreted the 14th amendment&#039;s grant of rights to &quot;persons&quot; to include corporations - and he didn&#039;t even put that into the decision!  It was in the &quot;headnotes&quot; because it was an offhand comment the clerk heard him make... but still subsequent courts have taken that as gospel, and corporations have become legal persons since then... with all of the rights and none of the legal responsibilities!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s true, Winger.  Corporate personhood grew out of one supreme court judge&#8217;s decision on a railroad case in which he interpreted the 14th amendment&#8217;s grant of rights to &#8220;persons&#8221; to include corporations &#8211; and he didn&#8217;t even put that into the decision!  It was in the &#8220;headnotes&#8221; because it was an offhand comment the clerk heard him make&#8230; but still subsequent courts have taken that as gospel, and corporations have become legal persons since then&#8230; with all of the rights and none of the legal responsibilities!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Winger</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/12/new-campaign-to-legalize-democracy/comment-page-1/#comment-114444</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Winger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=34573#comment-114444</guid>
		<description>Corporate personhood has nothing to do with the First Amendment.  The First Amendment protects free speech for things that are not persons, such as newspapers, non-profit organizations, even organizations like Reclaim.Democracy.

The First Amendment says, &quot;Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech&quot;, so things that aren&#039;t persons are still free to speak.  Corporate personhood relates to the 14th amendment, not the First Amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corporate personhood has nothing to do with the First Amendment.  The First Amendment protects free speech for things that are not persons, such as newspapers, non-profit organizations, even organizations like Reclaim.Democracy.</p>
<p>The First Amendment says, &#8220;Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech&#8221;, so things that aren&#8217;t persons are still free to speak.  Corporate personhood relates to the 14th amendment, not the First Amendment.</p>
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