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	<title>Comments on: Why the Liberal OC is wrong about project labor agreements</title>
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	<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/11/why-the-liberal-oc-is-wrong-about-project-labor-agreements/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=why-the-liberal-oc-is-wrong-about-project-labor-agreements</link>
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		<title>By: Jim Benson</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/11/why-the-liberal-oc-is-wrong-about-project-labor-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-110257</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=31299#comment-110257</guid>
		<description>Then how does it save money having a PLA vs not having a PLA if all the wages and benefits are the same?

I am not assuming that all PLA&#039;s are good or all PLA&#039;s are bad. I am just convinced that labor unions overall are very important to the health and well being of the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then how does it save money having a PLA vs not having a PLA if all the wages and benefits are the same?</p>
<p>I am not assuming that all PLA&#8217;s are good or all PLA&#8217;s are bad. I am just convinced that labor unions overall are very important to the health and well being of the US.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Pedroza</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/11/why-the-liberal-oc-is-wrong-about-project-labor-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-110245</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Pedroza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=31299#comment-110245</guid>
		<description>Jim,

Your union pals are lying!  Guess what?  All workers make the SAME money on public works projects, union or otherwise, due to prevailing wage laws.  

As for quality, these projects have plans, schedules, etc. that you have to stick to - and regular inspections.  And the workers, union or otherwise, all have been through similar on the job experience and education.

I teach for a non union apprenticeship program, so believe me I know a lot about this.

Lastly, if you do the research you will find that the projects with the most accidents and bad quality are large public works projects with PLAs, such as the Boston Big Dig.  The unions won&#039;t fess up to this, but do the research and you will find it to be true.

I am not anti union.  In fact I belong to a teacher&#039;s union.  But PLAs are anti worker so I refuse to support them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,</p>
<p>Your union pals are lying!  Guess what?  All workers make the SAME money on public works projects, union or otherwise, due to prevailing wage laws.  </p>
<p>As for quality, these projects have plans, schedules, etc. that you have to stick to &#8211; and regular inspections.  And the workers, union or otherwise, all have been through similar on the job experience and education.</p>
<p>I teach for a non union apprenticeship program, so believe me I know a lot about this.</p>
<p>Lastly, if you do the research you will find that the projects with the most accidents and bad quality are large public works projects with PLAs, such as the Boston Big Dig.  The unions won&#8217;t fess up to this, but do the research and you will find it to be true.</p>
<p>I am not anti union.  In fact I belong to a teacher&#8217;s union.  But PLAs are anti worker so I refuse to support them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Benson</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/11/why-the-liberal-oc-is-wrong-about-project-labor-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-110243</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=31299#comment-110243</guid>
		<description>Perhaps, but the less percentage of people represented by labor the lower wages seem to get overall and the more we become a have and have not society, the Middle Class is what made this country great and that was mostly because of unions. Henry Ford once said he needed to pay his people enought to buy the cars they were making or his company would fail. 

Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics are a part of the current corrupt system, not having or having a PLA will not make a difference in that. I do not recall that AIG, the many different Loan Companies, the Heath Care Companies that got exceptions to laws, bailouts and no-bid medicare contracts under the republican medicare reform had any PLA&#039;s or Unions involved.

If this is your solution to Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics I am afraid you are hopelessly barking up the wrong tree.

Public, taxpayer funded campaigns are the a way to begin to fight the election of bought and paid for Officials, there are very few that are not unfortunatelly.

Run once for office and win, let your phone ring and Joe is on the line. Joe was very helpful in getting you elected.
How do you tell Joe no, could you? could you really ? Even if it goes against your principles? How many people really could or would? That is the real world as it is.

I do agree that Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics are destroying the country, but simplistic solutions sold to you by those who are particapating in corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics, are simply selling you a bill of goods so you will continue to look somewhere else for the problem</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps, but the less percentage of people represented by labor the lower wages seem to get overall and the more we become a have and have not society, the Middle Class is what made this country great and that was mostly because of unions. Henry Ford once said he needed to pay his people enought to buy the cars they were making or his company would fail. </p>
<p>Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics are a part of the current corrupt system, not having or having a PLA will not make a difference in that. I do not recall that AIG, the many different Loan Companies, the Heath Care Companies that got exceptions to laws, bailouts and no-bid medicare contracts under the republican medicare reform had any PLA&#8217;s or Unions involved.</p>
<p>If this is your solution to Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics I am afraid you are hopelessly barking up the wrong tree.</p>
<p>Public, taxpayer funded campaigns are the a way to begin to fight the election of bought and paid for Officials, there are very few that are not unfortunatelly.</p>
<p>Run once for office and win, let your phone ring and Joe is on the line. Joe was very helpful in getting you elected.<br />
How do you tell Joe no, could you? could you really ? Even if it goes against your principles? How many people really could or would? That is the real world as it is.</p>
<p>I do agree that Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics are destroying the country, but simplistic solutions sold to you by those who are particapating in corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics, are simply selling you a bill of goods so you will continue to look somewhere else for the problem</p>
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		<title>By: Silence Dogood</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/11/why-the-liberal-oc-is-wrong-about-project-labor-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-110237</link>
		<dc:creator>Silence Dogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 17:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=31299#comment-110237</guid>
		<description>Jim-

Those are weak slippery slope arguments that rely on fallacious reasoning.  There is no credible evidence that suggests that the absence of a PLA lowers wages or leads to poor construction quality.

Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics - issues that are at the heart of the PLA controversy - are responsible for bankrupting California and America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim-</p>
<p>Those are weak slippery slope arguments that rely on fallacious reasoning.  There is no credible evidence that suggests that the absence of a PLA lowers wages or leads to poor construction quality.</p>
<p>Corruption, cronyism, and pay-to-play politics &#8211; issues that are at the heart of the PLA controversy &#8211; are responsible for bankrupting California and America.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Benson</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2009/11/why-the-liberal-oc-is-wrong-about-project-labor-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-110232</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Benson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=31299#comment-110232</guid>
		<description>Yes great, another step towards lowering wages over all so we can compete with China and Mexico. ALso expect less quailty in the completed projects.

Yes in the short term money wil be saved, but when we hire more people at lower wages then the price of housing, consumer spending and the quality of work all decline.

Someone working for $15 an hour or less vs someone working for $20 or more cannot afford to spend extra on consumer goods, have less incentive to do quality work more incentive to make extra work so they can get overtime.

Why not just go down to home depot and hire everyone there at miniuin wage and turn them loose on these projects ?

That will cut costs even more, temporarly.

Same thing with these free trade agreements we signed years ago, we fail to think through the longer term expenses and problems.

This is just more of the same short sighted policies that are bankrupting the country.

Good PLA&#039;s are possible that reduce costs if those who are working on them are tough when they make the deal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes great, another step towards lowering wages over all so we can compete with China and Mexico. ALso expect less quailty in the completed projects.</p>
<p>Yes in the short term money wil be saved, but when we hire more people at lower wages then the price of housing, consumer spending and the quality of work all decline.</p>
<p>Someone working for $15 an hour or less vs someone working for $20 or more cannot afford to spend extra on consumer goods, have less incentive to do quality work more incentive to make extra work so they can get overtime.</p>
<p>Why not just go down to home depot and hire everyone there at miniuin wage and turn them loose on these projects ?</p>
<p>That will cut costs even more, temporarly.</p>
<p>Same thing with these free trade agreements we signed years ago, we fail to think through the longer term expenses and problems.</p>
<p>This is just more of the same short sighted policies that are bankrupting the country.</p>
<p>Good PLA&#8217;s are possible that reduce costs if those who are working on them are tough when they make the deal</p>
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