Our current health insurance industry model is broken. The necessary profits these INSURANCE companies take are killing us all. This system is killing our incomes and destroying our ability to get affordable health care. A single-payer health system is inevitable and Rick Unger’s policy page at True/Slant tells why: LINK
Amidst the ideological back and forth that is the health care reform debate of 2009, recent studies reveal a growing reality that each of us can easily understand, no matter what our ideological point of view. It will not be long until the private health insurance model will no longer work –for anybody. If annual premiums for family coverage grows, as expected, by an average of 8.7 percent per year over the next decade – as they did from 1999 to 2009 – premium costs will increase from the current average of $13,000 for the average family to more than $30,000 for the average family. As employees pay, on average, 28% of their premium costs with their employer paying the rest, that means that employee costs will go from $3,640.00 per year to $8,400.00 per year.
How many families do you imagine can afford $8,500 per year in health insurance premium costs, plus the large out-of-pocket costs for high deductible insurance plans? And how many companies do you imagine will be able to afford $21,600 per year in employee health insurance for each of their employees with a family?
Clearly, the employer health insurance model that accounts for 60% of health insurance coverage in this country is completely and unarguably unsustainable. The next question is where it gets weird.
If the above is true – and the numbers make it pretty clear as to where this is going – wouldn’t the private health insurance companies adjust their model rather than commit suicide by pricing themselves out of business?
As counter-intuitive as it may seem, the answer is likely to be ‘no.’
Virtually all large health insurance companies are publicly held and public companies have a life force that is unlike any other. They are driven by the desire of current management to show improved profits of about 10% each year so as to sustain share price increases for the shareholders and compensation increases for management. Also understand that while public companies like to talk about the “long term”, the phrase has no true meaning to them.
Management and shareholders worry about this year’s numbers with an eye towards next year’s – and that is as far as it goes. Most shareholders and managers have no expectation of being around in the ‘long term.’
Thus, while current management of the large health insurance companies may very well realize that they cannot sustain their business model for the longer term, this is not something they can afford to worry about. Their shareholders want returns on their investment as management wants boosts to their compensation and they are looking for it now. The future will be someone else’s problem.
Take virtually any failed industry in America and you will see that the dynamic set forth above is inevitably true. Whoever ran General Motors before the CEO in charge when the industry fell apart probably knew what was down the road for the company. But it wasn’t his problem. An adept shareholder in GM who got out five years ago, really didn’t care where the industry was headed nor did a CEO who had no plans to be around when the balls in the air crashed to the ground.
But when it’s health care? I think you will find that teabaggers everywhere will have a very different perspective when they find themselves out there alone with no way to pay for their family’s medical costs.
Who will need the save the day when this happens? The government will – and that means a single-payer system.
Whether the result fits your ideology or not, the numbers would seem to make clear that it is only a matter of time before private health insurance prices itself out of the market, leaving only the government with the capability to insure the nation’s health.
Given what appears to be a very dim future for the health insurance business model, one cannot help but conclude that the battle in Congress, while framed in ideological terms for public consumption, is really more about helping the insurance companies to earn as much money as they can before their inevitable collapse. After all, Congress is not unlike public companies in that elected officials tend not to worry beyond the next election cycle. When the insurance companies ultimately are priced out of the health business, and the government must take over, it will either be the next Congressman’s problem or enough time will have passed to allow constituents to forget the past ideologies of their representatives. MORE at the LINK There is also an excellent discussion following the article in which the author, Rick Ungar, responds to posters personally.
Here is one poster that understands the harsh reality of trying to keep up with the health insurance industry hell-bent on taking every last profit possible, at the detriment of his family’s small business’ bottom line:
I’m already experiencing what you’re describing. I’m a single father with health insurance provided through my family’s paving business. My deductible is $2400, yet the company I work for pays roughly $13,000 a year for my insurance. I’ve been to the doctor once, and my daughter has been once this year. The only prescription I do have is a generic so I can get it for 4 dollars at Walmart. I’m not getting my money’s worth, and my family’s company is losing money hand over fist because of paying so much for employees’ insurance. I fully support the public option because of this. I also find it ridiculous as to the claims of death panels, because quite frankly, private insurance companies already have these. Some have been investigated because of policies to automatically deny any claims the first time, and hope the person goes away out of frustration. How can one say, that a private insurance company has the best interest of their clientele at heart, when their highest goal, due to being publicly traded, is to make high profits to please their shareholders… – – nidomus
Great post, Red.
More fuel for the fire;
I heard the other day that insurance companies are now going to consider a c-section a pre-existing condition.
Good evening, anonster. I appreciate your feedback because I know you have a good grasp on the Health Insurance reform discussions. I was corrected today b/c I have been kind of intermixing health CARE reform, when I should be referring to it as health INSURANCE reform. The problem is NOT the health care we receive. The problem is with the HEALTH INSURANCE MONOPOLY that’s strangling employers, small businesses and their employees.
This author has a book coming out and he promises that it will be SIMPLE to understand. Between our sell-out lawmakers and the predatory Insurance company practices it is SO DIFFICULT to get an accurate understanding of what reform needs to be.
You definitely NAILED it when you said to have “Medicare for all”. The program already insures the most expensive portions of the population – the elderly and the disabled. It should be even more cost effective to cover the rest of us. Especially when you consider getting rid of the 30% “administration” costs of the insurance companies doing business for big profits to the largest shareholders and of course those mega-bucks CEO bonuses.
I call/write Pelosi, Obama and Biden regularly and demand single payer. I wonder how many others are doing that yet?
Red. I know you all love the Idea of Gov’t healthcare, no matter what I say or do, or show you, will make any change in your mind.
Let me ask you this, suppose you get your gov’t one payer system, or whatever plan you are looking for. What happens to me, when it, like most other government plans, fails to do what it is supposed to do, does not produce savings, increases costs, causes long lines, rationing, and sets back our economy by its tax increases. Our Standard of care gets set back, research dies, and our best and brightest cease to go out to become doctors, and researchers, because they want to make a good living. Where do I go to get my life back? Where do we go to get the best healthcare? What options do I have?
Lets take a look at a few things the government has taken over, and think how they have dealt with problems…..
Amtrak…..Not even funny how much it costs us
Post office…Gets its butt handed to them by Fedex, and UPS
Iraq, after being greeted as liberators, was supposed to cost us a few pennies after all of the savings on oil….now up to $,000,000,000,000
Jersey Turnpike, I think like 90% of the tolls go to the union who works it!
DMV- No comment
Medicare was to cost (at the most) about 10% of what it costs today
PS. Medicare is insolvent- we pay out more than we take in….not sustainable
Social Security- Also insolvent
Even the most recent, Bush Part D, has cost way more than predicted!
The point I am making, that nobody can answer is what happens when this fails like all of the other big government projects?
At least if I didn’t like my insurance coverage, I am still allowed to find a doctor and pay them in Cash, with out threat of jail.
Nope the State has a great track record of pissing away money and benefits, the “Service” becomes another piece of pie for the political whores to play one of us against the other, just like they are doing now, and there is no better way to illustrate this than to ask, why doesn’t this plan apply to congress?
Marko,
I hope you read that link and copied/pasted your questions to that author, because frankly, that guy writes and lectures about the Health insurance particulars. If you want to have a knowledgeable debate, I lead you to the source.
I’ve GOT excellent coverage right now and with a manageable deductible. My employer is huge, so I get better than small business people like yourself or my best friends who own their own businesses and cover their employees with HC insurance. The HC insurance industry is destroying our middle class lifestyles if it is left alone to contine.
It is obvious that the whole thing is off the rails and needs reform. The numbers that the guy cites show that.
Your complaints about the post office and other services that we enjoy in the US seem kind of odd. The post office successfully has competition of UPS and FEDX – yet if you want to go to the post office, you can still do that. We live in a wealthy nation. I expect the FDA. I expect the SEC. I expect the EPA. I expect the FFA. I expect libraries, national and regional parks, i expect fire/police and other emergency services. I pay my taxes and a portion of those taxes go to ensure health, safety and comfort of living in CA/USA.
I’ve been to third world nations that don’t have those kinds of reliable services. I appreciate what we have here and I am comfortable with what our government does to ensure base standards for its citizens. I expect to pay for living in a world class nation.
Cheaping out on essential services and safeguards is just silly thinking.
You missed the point….completely. The question was not about services, but rather a bigger question of what do we get when all of your promises are not kept, and you destroy the system. The Post office does not compete, it just raises its prices with no recourse. Fedex, and UPS cannot go out and deliver a 1st class letter. The Post office will ship in 2 to 4 days with no tracking number, if I go and drop it off to them, for about the same price, Fedex will pick up and deliver overnight, with tracking #’s. And to add to it Fedex is Evil and makes a bunch of Money. That is the point. Why do their and UPS Prices keep going down, but the Post office keeps going up?
I said nothing about Police and Fire, parks etc…why do you change the topic? SEC, EPA….what does that have to do with healthcare
You then say
“I pay my taxes and a portion of those taxes go to ensure health, safety and comfort of living in CA/USA.” Comfort? Really? Did you mean to say that? Life Liberty and the pursuit of Comfort? HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
And Follow with
Cheaping out on essential services and safeguards is just silly thinking.
So Comfort is now Essential? You have got to be kidding me!!!!! HaHAHAHAHAH!!!!!
You should run for office on the “A Lazy Boy in every Living room Platform!!!!!
I’ll vote for you! We should change the Statue of Liberty to read Send me your tired, and uncomfortable!!!!
You just outed yourself BIGTIME!!!!!
Red.
By “essential services” do I read the word “entitlements” in your subliminal text?
Marko,
You seem to just want to bicker with me. Why not post your silliness over at that site where the author is more of an expert on the issue than me OR you?
I pay my taxes and consider it a duty. MY government has not disappointed me. I can use the US mail system or UPS – I have the choice. AND I cannot remember when the Post Office didn’t deliver my mail reliably and on time.
Any of us that actually DO earn a living, CAN pay our share of taxes. Some people just like to complain. I know my life here is much better than other parts of the world because we have systems in place that insure a high standard of living.
Health Insurance is off the rails. It needs reform. Single Payer will make health care affordable.
Larry,
I want EVERYONE to have Medicare like the Medicare that YOU currently enjoy. It’s cost effective and people can purchase supplemental insurance.
MY friends who have their own businesses are healthy and young. They are not on expensive medications or have debilitating conditions yet. But they deserve to have affordable medical coverage so if they get sick they won’t go broke.
Are you talking about “Entitlements” like Medicare, Larry? Because if you are, then my answer is: YES.
I don’t think it is bickering, you seem to have a need to have “Comfort” Provided by the government… I would like this explained, it gets to the root of the issue, really. Once again you SAY IT WILL make it afforable, what happens if it isn’t? What happens if Single payer does not work? You have not answered anything, and seem to want to mumble something about taxes and parks…
What do we do, if like every other government plan, single payer turns into a giant government waste of money, and a monumental picture of inefficiency????? What happens next? That is the question?
Marko,
You would be able to keep what you have. I know that I would be able to keep mine. However, if I decide to move into a plan outside of the ONE that my employer chose, I’d be able to do that. I don’t have to use the Post Office, I don’t have to use the public option under a universal care program. We still have choices.
You keep saying that all government plans are a big waste of money and are not efficient. I think that is an empty rant. You cite the post office, but for mere pennies you can get a letter sent and it gets there. I don’t understand your dissatisfactions at all.
You should try driving around Haiti. You’d understand why taxes going for road maintenance and improvement here are blessings. Our system of government does an outstanding job in a huge variety of venues. Medicare is working great for the majority. I want that same program available for me, you and anyone else who wants to opt for it. You can keep what u have, Marko.
I posted a link over at that site where Unger’s article is posted, in case the author feels like wandering over here. Maybe he can answer your fears.
Oh and maybe Larry can swing by and tell you what he thinks of his medicare and if its so terrible that he refuses to use it. That’s the acid test right there…. ask someone who already gets that entitlement how it’s working out before you agree to it.
Oh, and the public option is NOT dead, according to Obama just today:
Obama’s media blitz: The public option absolutely is not dead
By Michael O’Brien – 09/20/09 10:21 AM ET
The public option has not been taken off the table in the nation’s healthcare debate, President Barack Obama flatly declared Sunday.
Obama, appearing on the Spanish-language Univision’s “Al Punto” program on Sunday, rejected the idea that he had abandoned the public (or “government-run”) option for which he’d expressed much previous support.
“I absolutely do not believe that it’s dead,” Obama told Univision. “I think that it’s something that we can still include as part of a comprehensive reform effort.”
That defense may mark one of the most significant reactions Obama has had to date to the health bill unveiled by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) this week, which eschews the public option in favor of nonprofit healthcare cooperatives.
Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/59495-…
Bigmark, I share you concern, but I disagree with you on a few points:
“and our best and brightest cease to go out to become doctors, and researchers, because they want to make a good living.”
Bigmarkod, we have to separate the service providers from the insurance companies. Isn’t it true most doctors support the Obama plan? They obvious would not support it if they thought they would lose money.
Also, although it’s popular to bash government agencies, most of them are actually doing a great job. The post office provides excellent services at a much cheaper price than UPS. They have services that most people are not even aware of. Example: unless you’re sending out HUGE packages, you can actually send most packages directly from your home and your mailman will take them. Can you add 50 cents for tracking OR you can pay through the internet and they will provide you tracking for free. To send a few DVDs to Hawaii through UPS will cost you about $25; sent them priority through the post office, and it will cost you $5 with a tracking number and it will get there in two days; TWO DAYS to Hawaii.
Lastly, what exactly is wrong with the DMV? People talk about them like they’re the worst agency in history but I personally have never had any problem with them. What problem have you had with them bigmarkod?
“What do we do, if like every other government plan, single payer turns into a giant government waste of money, and a monumental picture of inefficiency?????”
Bigmarkod, I think it’s fair to assume you don’t know EVERY plan out there and yet you automatically assume they’re all a big waste of money with inefficiency.
When Enron, Worldcom, Kmart, Circuit City, Washington Mutual, Lehman Brothers, GM … went under, they evaporated hundreds of billions of dollars. People blamed management and the economy BUT they don’t lump them all together and blame the private or corporate sector; and very well they shouldn’t. Yet you know, when one or two government agencies fail; you can rest assure that people will blame the public sector in general and automatically assume that all government agencies are mismanaged.
#1 I have yet to speak to a doctor who supports the single payer plan, I have spoken with several high level doctors, who are making “Plan B” plans.
As far as the Post office is concerned, please, if you like long lines, and inefficient services feel free to use it. Fedex comes to me, picks it up gives me terms, and tracks, all over night. Period. If you are shipping a medim sized box, you must bring it in.
Red, All I can say at this point is, it is good that You like the DMV, Gov’t Programs and the Post Office, because that is what you are going to get! God Help us all!
Lam, Go to the Laguna Hills DMV and register your car, or get a license. You’ll get the picture. There will be an hour line to get into the 1st line, and then you can go wait at the next window, and wait in line there.
Marko,
I don’t think I commented on the DMV. However, you can get around a lot of whatever frustration you have there by going to AAA or by making a convenient appointment at the DMV. I do those things and have not had any unpleasant experiences for at least 18 years. I remember when the complaints about the DMV were numerous and serious enough for the entire organization to undergo retraining so that “service” and courtesy became the standards.
Our government gives excellent service. I have not seen one valid complaint from you that would make me change my mind on that.
I especially am happy that we have EPA standards. You should see what kind of water working people in the Philippines drink. In Taiwan the air quality is so dangerous that citizens wear surgical type masks to keep the larger particles of pollution out of their lungs.
Maybe you just resent paying taxes, Mark. Understandable that it might irritate you, but you get what you pay for. We are paying for one of the very highest standards of living in world.
People have two options here, read the excellent article that is supported by research and FACTS (a concept very foreign to those at Fox News and their viewers) OR you can read the guy’s post who wrote HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA in between each irrelevant, nonsensical sentence. Your health care insurance that you “worked so hard for” WILL GO AWAY! It is a huge, unethical conflict of interest that health care insurance companies are for profit.
“As far as the Post office is concerned, please, if you like long lines, and inefficient services feel free to use it.”
bigmark, what are you talking about? I send many packages from my home without a problem. Yes, with HUGE packages, I go to the post office and have to wait in line. But the wait is rarely ever longer than a few minutes… no more than waiting in line to buy tickets for a movie or in line for ride at Disneyland; and hey, lets not forget waiting in the Doctor’s office. I think you’re just convinced that they’re inefficient no matter regardless of the facts.
“Lam, Go to the Laguna Hills DMV and register your car, or get a license. You’ll get the picture.”
Big, I’m not familiar with Laguna Hills DVM but I’ll take your word for it. But that’s exactly what I’m saying. You’re convinced that government is bad so you seek out the negatives to prove your point. I bet I can point out a Starbucks where service is slow, coffee is bad and the counter person is rude. Does that mean Starbucks is bad company or corporations are evil?
Bigmarkod,
What do the words from the Preamble to the Constitution; “promote the general Welfare”, mean to you?
Do people dying count for anything in your world?
There was a new study released in the online edition of the American Journal of Public Health entitled; “Health Insurance and Mortality in US Adults”.
“The Harvard-based researchers found that uninsured, working-age Americans have a 40% higher risk of death than their privately insured counterparts, up from a 25% excess death rate found in 1993.”
“The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account. It estimated that LACK OF HEALTH INSURANCE CAUSES 44,789 EXCESS DEATHS ANNUALLY.”
They figure that one American dies every 12 minutes from lack of health insurance.
Does that make you proud of your “system”?
The funny thing in this debate is that almost NONE of your arguments in favor of private health insurance hold water.
*Our private health insurance system has resulted in health insurance monopolies and as a consequence WE PAY TWICE AS MUCH for our health care than any other country.
*For all our “choice”, we DON’T have the best health care, in fact we’re #37.
*We have 100,000,000 people already covered by government sponsored health care (medicare, veterans, medicaid) WE’VE TRIED IT AND IT WORKS. It may not be perfect, but TRY and find a senior who chooses private insurance over Medicare.
* Research and Development incentives; 70% of of the scientific papers cited on the front pages of US industry patents came from PUBLIC SCIENCE- and don’t worry there will still be plenty of money to be made from new drug patents.
Questions for Bigmarkod;
*If insurance works by spreading out the risk, wouldn’t single-payer health care have the largest pool of risk, thereby resulting in the lowest costs?
*If Medicare’s overhead is 4% and a private insurer’s overhead is 30%, who’s being more efficient?
*Just what do health insurance companies do?
*Why do you believe that their needs to be a profit motive in providing health care?
*Do you have any ideas or solutions or don’t you care ( as in; I’m fine the hell with the rest of you )?
Excellent discussions and a good selection of viewpoints here.
I wanted to share this video clip of last week at the AFL-CIO convention, it was reported that AFSCME President Gerald McEntee led the crowd in a derogatory chant about Max Baucus’s Senate Finance Committee bill.
“The Senate Finance Committee is getting ready to debate a health care bill. That bill does not meet the test of this resolution.
As a matter of fact, it doesn’t even come close. And it does not meet President Obma’s standards either. There is no employer mandate, no public option, no help for retirees. The finance committee bill imposes substantial costs on the states, weakens state insurance regulation and taxes our health plan.”
Warning: profanity in the following video clip:
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/21/video-of-afscmes-gerald-mcentee-baucus-bill-is-bullshit/
*If insurance works by spreading out the risk, wouldn’t single-payer health care have the largest pool of risk, thereby resulting in the lowest costs?
No, the costs go higher witout competition. Lets taka look at the phone compnay in the 70’s before it was broken up. Phone calls ran $1 a minute, they broke it up, opened it up to competition and most LD is Free, or just pennies.
*If Medicare’s overhead is 4% and a private insurer’s overhead is 30%, who’s being more efficient? Most numbers show, it is about 10 – 16% overhead…so, they have to market and compete. They still provide a product, under a set of rules, for a profit.
*Just what do health insurance companies do? They, for a fee, transfer risk for people.
*Why do you believe that their needs to be a profit motive in providing health care?
Best way to get more for less, works every time it is tried! People do not go to Venezuela to get surgery, they come here.
*Do you have any ideas or solutions or don’t you care ( as in; I’m fine the hell with the rest of you )?
I have many Ideas,
#1) Insurance is ONLY for catastrophic issues.
#2) You pay cash for doctors visits. Rather than you go to a doctor for a broken arm, use insurance, they bill the insurance company, $800 and you co-pay $200 for the $.85 x-ray, and $.35 worth of plaster. You could just pay the doctor to $100 for the care and be done with it, no paperwork, no billing, no inflated prices.
#3) You pay your medical Bills, not these stupid $70,000 a day for a hospital visit, but the real “cash” Price. The doctors are forced to crank up prices, to “show an 80% discount” they jack up thier fees.So people pay regular prices.
***Note*** Look at these new clinics popping up with listed cash prices, for most medical basics, they have cash only prices, and do not take insurance. Look at their prices!
#4) People must be responsible for what they do, if you get a service, and you do not pay for it, you don’t care what it costs! We don’t have insurance for our oil changes, or tire roatation, or tune ups…why not?
Red – thanks for picking up my post. you drove some interesting traffic to my page and I appreciate it. You have an interesting discussion going on here!
rick, jump on in, the water’s fine!
“Lets taka look at the phone compnay in the 70’s before it was broken up. Phone calls ran $1 a minute, they broke it up, opened it up to competition and most LD is Free, or just pennies.”
I’m sure technology has a lot to do with it too Mark. Competition is good, but competition alone can never bring prices down to a 99% discount.
#20 Bigmarkod,
First, I’d like to thank you for your thoughtful and well written reply, I wish all our discussions could be as civil.
My rebuttal;
“No, the costs go higher witout competition.”
* Don’t we have competing private health insurance companies now?
Have our costs gone down?
If competition is good why are private health insurers AFRAID to compete with the public option and why would YOU be against that?
“Most numbers show, it is about 10 – 16% overhead…so, they have to market and compete. They still provide a product, under a set of rules, for a profit.”
*10-16% overhead ( a debatable figure) is more than 4%, again who is more efficient ; Medicare or private insurers?
“They, for a fee, transfer risk for people.”
Exactly, and the Government can do it cheaper , see above.
“Best way to get more for less, works every time it is tried! People do not go to Venezuela to get surgery, they come here.”
*Unfortunately with health care that hasn’t been true. We PAY THE MOST and are not getting the best results, # 37 according to WHO and 45,000 people dying every year because they lack health insurance.
FYI; Americans are going abroad for health care, in 2006, 500,000 did so, with millions more predicted to seek health care outside the US in the future. America CAN and SHOULD do better.
“I have many Ideas,
#1) Insurance is ONLY for catastrophic issues.”
* I think that’s an easy stance for someone who is young and healthy. What happens to the chronically ill and those that need many prescriptions (which can run into the thousands per month)? How does catastrophic reduce the risk of insuring someone with heart disease or a breast cancer survivor? Would having a normal baby, with an overnight stay in the hospital now running over $10,000 be considered “catastrophic”?
“#2) You pay cash for doctors visits. Rather than you go to a doctor for a broken arm, use insurance, they bill the insurance company, $800 and you co-pay $200 for the $.85 x-ray, and $.35 worth of plaster. You could just pay the doctor to $100 for the care and be done with it, no paperwork, no billing, no inflated prices”
*Unfortunately real wages have not kept up with inflation and if Americans needed health insurance in the 60’s and the 70’s when wages were at their peak (relative to cost-of-living), there is no way they would be able to afford basic health services now. What doctor could charge $100 for a broken arm? Are the doctor’s costs less, his rent, his insurance, his student loans, his accountant, his staff, his equipment, etc? I think the days of giving the doctor a chicken in exchange for services has past, but there is one cost we can eliminate and that is the PROFIT insurance companies make.
“#3) You pay your medical Bills, not these stupid $70,000 a day for a hospital visit, but the real “cash” Price. The doctors are forced to crank up prices, to “show an 80% discount” they jack up thier fees.So people pay regular prices.
***Note*** Look at these new clinics popping up with listed cash prices, for most medical basics, they have cash only prices, and do not take insurance. Look at their prices!”
* I don’t disagree with the premise of Medical Clinics offering cash prices for basic services, a good idea for healthy middle class people, but it still isn’t the answer to our spiraling health care costs. Let’s say you’re having a heart attack (God forbid) do you really want your wife dialing around looking for the cheapest hospital? And where are these low-cost hospitals going to come from? I can’t imagine stockholders taking less on their investment from these for-profit hospitals because it’s not like there is a lot of competition.
“#4)People must be responsible for what they do, if you get a service, and you do not pay for it, you don’t care what it costs! We don’t have insurance for our oil changes, or tire roatation, or tune ups…why not?
*Most people don’t abuse health care, they go to the doctor when they need to. This is just a red herring to block health care reform.
great post, great comments. I look forward to joining this debate with y’all once I catch up with the PRESENT!
#25
Vern, this blog NEEDS your viewpoint (anything but more Ackerman posts), c’mon, post something provocative!