Do you base your decisions on Faith or do you base your decisions on FACT? Our biggest national GDP gain would be to go to a single payer health delivery system according to nurses and doctors from the North. Here is an overview of the Canadian system as outlined by actual Canadians. 86% of Canadians are extremely happy with their current Medicare system. Their recommendation is for Obama to get on the television every day and just say, “Medicare for EVERYONE”. It makes overwhelming financial sense to go to this type of program. See for yourself. (Sending a special invitation to Michelle right now!) Also: WHY are the Democrats hijacking reforms and turning the bill into legalized robbery of US citizens? Here are some COST statistics that should not be ignored……
Percentage change since 2002 in average premiums paid to large US health-insurance companies: +87%
Percentage change in the profits of the top ten insurance companies: +428%
Chances that an American bankrupted by medical bills has health insurance: 7 in 10
—Harper’s Index, September 2009
For anyone wanting to read more information about the current hijacking of the reform bills by Democrats for their own gains, here is an excellent article at the Truthdig site:
“This Isn’t Reform, It’s Robbery” LINK
I don’t understand you, Red. How are Democrats’s “hijacking” health reform? I thought most Democrats in congress promoted a public system, and that Republicans were trying to derail it. Explain.
If 85% of Canadians like their System, and 85% of Americans like theirs… why change?
As far as profits are concerned, why is it bad for companies to make a profit? If they are making an “Obscene” profit, start another insurance company, and take advantage of their “Obscenity”.
Lets also think of Obscene profits…The Government produces nothing. Period. They do not have to provide anything of any value to anybody. They do not have to compete for taxes, they just take. Every penny the insurance companies make has been GIVEN to them through an open fair market exchange, the Government does not have this problem. (For the Record, I know the govt provides services, but the point is they do not have to compete for the revenue)
Red,
That is the most honest assessment of ObamaCare I have read yet. The reality of universal care in America is the failure of Massachusetts, Maine and Hawaii (where they ended the spectacle of universal care in under seven months)
What I find striking and depressing is that your stance indicates ObamaCare isn’t far enough left and free-marketing hating for you.
Why aren’t you learning from our past mistakes?
Hey guys, welcome to the discussion. I hope you got a chance to view that video. When you come off the noise and the hype of the issue, the bottom line is, that we need to join the rest of the more advanced parts of the world and get universal health care. Here is the list of other countries who have this system:
Canada, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Brazil, Peru, Brunei, China, Hong Kong, Israel, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Ukraine, Australia, New Zealand
SAHS teacher,
thanks for asking! Ever heard of Max Baucus? Two of his former chief of staff are now health care lobbyists who have a well-worn path to Max’ office. Max takes millions of dollars in campaign contributions from the health care corporations. I believe he is the highest paid receipent of HC lobby monies out of all our electeds. And he’s just ONE of the democrats who has everything to gain by preventing a public option and especially UNIVERSAL heatlh care which would severely curtail the administrative expense of HC coverage.
Check out this picture and tell me what you think:
There’s been a lot of anxiety over leaks outlining the compromises being made in the Senate Finance Committee’s health-care plan. Among these compromises is a rejection of the public option and the absence of an employer mandate. Disappointing stuff. But, at this point, completely predictable.
This is who is in the room helping Baucus put together his bill. Olympia Snowe, Mike Enzi, Chuck Grassley, Jeff Bingaman and Kent Conrad. In a Senate of 60 Democrats and 40 Republicans, the health-care reform bill is being written by three centrist Democrats, one centrist Republicans, and two conservative Republicans. And until last week, Orrin Hatch was in the room, too.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=…
mark, did you get a chance to see the video?
I would think the GDP impact would be of interest to you b/c of your finance background. Did you hear that health care expenses are expected to go up an additional 10+% in the next 12 months? This will definitely impact choices and employers who offer coverage.
Did you see the risk factor, too? 7/10 people are at risk of going BK b/c of the health care situation.
Our health care is in crisis and it is making our nation unsafe.
WTF,
Is it possible that you have links to any of the things you are quoting?
Frankly, I am not sure what you mean by “obamacare”. It smacks of ignorance and it makes me suspect the rest of your post as being unverifiable nonsense as well.
The issue has a ton of misinformation piled on it, so I think it is to EVERYONE’S best interest to present information that is accurate, verifiable and assists this important conversation. Links would definitely help. Please provide.
Where is this “Crisis”?
Seriously, I’m sick of this BS….any illegal can walk accross the boarder, and go to ANY Hospital ER and get medical Care for FREE!!!!!
Who is unsafe?
As far as health care is a “RIGHT” these people make me sick, let’s establish what a right is. It is something that you may go to anybody and demand. For example, protection from search and seizure, speech, etc. You Can Not demand somebody else provide you with labor, and or property, it is not a right, you do not have a “right” or a claim to my labor, or my property Period! It is called Stealing, or Socialism.
Can I demand a haircut? Can I demand an oil Change? Can I demand lunch? No, why not? Because they are not rights and I don’t have a legal claim to the labor or property of others.
I don’t care what the cost is, becuase if we stop the meddling, the market will take care of it, if insurance shoots up to $50,000 per month per person, how long will it stay in business? Not long, so there is a reasonable price that people will pay, just like real estate, when the price get too high, it will become unsustainable and will come down. The only problem is when people interfere with it, Just like the fannie and freddie pushing loans to people who could not pay them back…..
Have you stopped to think what will happen to your freedom if the govt is paying your healthcare! Seriously, go to canada, or any other Mommy state, and cry there.
P.S. Nothing gets done in Hong Kong, without CASH, I don’t care what the books tell you about thier healthcare!
I donno Mark. I like police and fire services like they have in advanced societies. I guess I want efficient health care for the rest of our population – just like we have for the disabled, the elderly and our representatives.
My employer has been severely impacted by health care costs. and i consider the coverage I have as EXCELLENT. However, the last few years there has been enormous cost shifting b/c of the HC insurance monopoly.
YOU must not have health care coverage yourself, or you’d understand the issues more clearly.
Oh yeah, in the Video it says their admin cost is 1.5%… Really, my student loan cost 4.5% to process! And all that was, was a little bit of paperwork, and a wire transfer. 1.5% Seriously? You are insane to think it will be 1.5%
Red,
if you were to try to provide links to the countries you SAY have Universal Care, you couldnt do it without it becoming clear that more than half of those countries are moving AWAY from that experiment. Some in baby steps, but they are realizing the futility of government run health care and providing private insurance programs. From Sweden asking private companies to open hospitals, etc…
So if you want to learn more about the failure of states to provide their own universal care, GOOGLE it darling.
Mark,
The actual costs to administer here in the US is thought to cost about 3%. I had posted a video about Australia’s Medicare program earlier, and you may have missed it, but they quoted the actual cost of each tax payer to be about 1.5% of their income. And more wealthy people would have an additional 1% of their income taxed to help pay for the coverage. A LOT of the costs of HC go down substantially when you remove the 20-31 cents per each HC dollar that goes to administration costs and those pricey bonuses that the top eschelon get, as they evict sick people out of the system in order to trim the bottom line.
Illegals will continue to be a problem until the borders are secure, that we both can agree on. But I am not going to get all emotional about some illegals getting care, when I know of too many people who were forced out of their homes and forced out of their insuurance plans because they got sick and needed serious medical attention.
So if you want to learn more about the failure of states to provide their own universal care, GOOGLE it darling.
Sure thing, lazy. I’ll get right on it.
Say, you’re not one of those people who is on disability or on medicare who wants to make sure no one else messes with YOUR system, are you?
PS. Red I pay $1,100 for myself for insurance, I know what it costs, and I want to keep it that way!
If it only cost 1.5% per taxpayer, why does Obamacare cost and additional 4, 6 0r 8% of Payroll?????
Mark,
I appreciate that you have good money to spend on health care insurance. I know a good number of people who self-insure b/c of their small business status. And when things are going well, and there is no illness, everything is fine. However, if you do get seriously injured or seriously ill, what tends to happen is that the Insurance MONOPOLY that is currently in place, will do their best to cancel you. Remember, it is a “for profit” system and if you are in need of major medical attention that is going to cost them a lot of $$$, they have adjusters who will find reasons to disqualify the sick/injured.
I know YOU don’t intend on getting sick/injured, but it could happen and when it does, it becomes a catastrophy with co-pays, ceiling amounts, preexisting conditions and the inevitable cancellations that come with expensive care. What the single payer option will give you is true INSURANCE – you just can’t lose your insurance for any reason. There is no safeguard like that under the current scheme of things.
If it only cost 1.5% per taxpayer, why does Obamacare cost and additional 4, 6 0r 8% of Payroll?????
I am not sure where the break down of communication is. Was I unclear about something or whereever are you getting those numbers that you are quoting? I only know what they are saying about other countrys’ medicare systems (we can look to them to get an “idea” of what it will cost). I’m not towing any party line here… i don’t really trust too many of our lawmakers to do this right.
However, we need to get this right and we need to get reform now, because it simply is too broken to go forward, and we know from the experience of MANY countries that it IS possible to provide affordable, efficient health care for a whole nation. It is in our national best interest to get this worked out.
SINGLE PAYER. Demand it!
Hi Red,
Here is my take on it!
The US is a massive country and as England has done, many of the poor of other countries have flooded our nation, as well as England. It is a fact and i have said this before the poor, just as it has in England, as well as Ireland have over ran a system that was to suppose to serve only its own people paying into the system. In European Countries, there are really only two classes of people unlike the Us. “The haves and the have nots”. I can tell you for a fact, that every country in Europe has a health care system in colapse except the swiss. The reason their system is working is because most of the residents pay into the system and immigrantion is very low, because of their strict immigration policies. It to me is a matter of common sense, one country with a massive amount of people cannot sustain all, with free health care. The cost will go through the roof as it has in every country with free health care. And yes their are some people who love the thought of free health care, and these are the people who most likly do not pay into the system. Of course this population would not care about the cost, or the long waits, why should they, because they are not paying for it!.
And as far as your video is concerned of course the unions want nationalized health care. Just as your public schools systems has been dominated and distroyed by unions, so will your health care. Remember the more nurse, more union dues.
I am right now, dealing with some top advisers to Orange Country Health Care. Who want to start a program that would pay Employers of Illegal Aliens to give their Employees and their children free Health Care, While i cannot afford neither mine or my employee’s health care cost’s. The free coverage would use funds from state and federal grants to do so.
The reason they would use state and federal money is to avoid the Not for profit and insurance companies from paying for care to illegal immigrants. But remember who benefits from state and federal funds, doctors, hospitals, union’s. I have told you before CFO of CHOC, Kim, Cripe makes 1.2 million a year and alot of their funding is from Medical,(Caloptima) and other Government funds, ie MSI.
You really need to look into Healthy families, orange county socical services and Caloptima to see what will happen with free healthcare. The more people they have in any Governement scheme the better it is the business of growing government and making hospitals very rich!. But the money does not go for care, just as it has in public schools it go to admin’s.
It is really easy to fix this health care system that is too expensive, allow inter-state health insurance companies to compete. And keep the Government from the fed/states from making the insurance companies take their their profits to make foundation that fund for the poor. That is what are medicaid system is for and it should only help Americans. Illegal Aliens should only have emergency health care.
I know i always seam to inject Illegal Aliens, but they are causing a terrible amount of strain on the tax payer and a win win situation of non-profits and Governement to get more taxpayer money.
And as far as health insurance companies goes, yeah, they make a hugh profit if they are the only one’s playing on the field. In California only about 5 companies can mandate cost’s. And it is through the roof because of Foundation ie. Calfornia Endowment.
I am telling you their is so much corruption right going on with anything to do with public services, its encredible and both parties Dem/repub’s have a hand in it!.
sorry for the mistakes in my writing, but i hope i am getting better at it:)
Am I miss teacher Jill:)
Hi RED. In your argument you challenge the USA to “join the rest of the more advanced parts of the world..” Wow.
While we are heading to several third world nations tomorrow they surely are not more advanced than America.
I am disappointed that to make your case for a socialist health care system you can only create a listing of those ADVANCED COUNTRIES.
Sorry but I am not impressed.
PS: I will be attending Congressman Gary Miller’s Town Hall tonight and might tell him you said hello.
See you there Larry!
Red, you need to read my analysis of the “Cash for clunkers” vs. Healthcare a few days ago, your plan may make you “feel” better, but it will result in the following
#1) More people rushing to get “free” care
#2) Less competition
#3) Higher rates for those who want to stay with private care, Why you ask? Because if you can’t get cancelled and must insure everybody your costs will go up!
#4) Less doctors will play this little game
#5) More lower end doctors, because they will be regulated, as to what they can make
#6) Less research in medicine
#7) Long lines for care, and lower levels of care.
Please show me what the government does that is run well….Post office Vs Fed-ex or UPS? The DMV
Medicare, Social Security? Which are both giant Ponzi Schemes.
What about freedom?
I don’t want to wear a seatbelt, or a helmet….but I have to due to the “costs”
I have to pay $6 a pack of smokes “Because of the costs”
We tax Booze due to the “costs”
I refuse to give up my freedom. Period, if the gov’t has a one payer system will I be able to ….
1 Eat McDonalds…I do have a few extra pounds…
2 Drive my truck, it may not be “fair” in an accident with a prius
3 Go hunting? May be dangerous and increase costs?
4 Play sports… may get hurt and increase costs
5 Drink a beer? Oh, it may increase health care costs!
6 Get a transplant…. oh nope! I don’t fall under their socialist utopia of how I should live, no transplant for me! Just like the Cars for Clunkers, “we will give you money, but just like mommy and daddy, you have to do what we tell you! You must buy what we tell you, eat what we tell you, live where we tell you, or you don’t get the money”
It’s MY Money
It’s MY Life
It’s MY Liberty
Hands off! Stop using the Constitution as toilet paper! Where does it say you are allowed to pay for healthcare????
I’ll be dammed if my family escaped Communism to come here, just so we can surrender our rights to the government, because we want somebody else to pay our bills!
Yay, Michelle! Jill’s chilling out and getting ready to get back to school. You know, shopping, and erands, and hanging out with friends before she gets busy with the kids again.
Hey, I appreciate your thoughtful analysis and opinions. The thing is: for the most part BOTH parties agree that we have to have health care reform. WHAT that looks like is of concern.
Do you happen to have a link to support the argument that nearly all the countries in EU are suffering under their health care provisions? I like the Economist and other publications, and I don’t believe I have ever seen anything to support those claims. Not saying its not true, but it would be nice to have a link to that.
You certainly can bring up illegals here. The fact that we CONTINUE TO HAVE A POROUS BORDER should alarm us all. There is absolutely NO excuse that this country cannot figure out how to control its borders.
Hi RED. In your argument you challenge the USA to “join the rest of the more advanced parts of the world..” Wow.
Larry, I certainly hope you are not suggesting that I am somehow anti-patriotic. The fact IS: we are ranked 37 in health care rankings b/c so many of our citizens are at risk and uninsured.
I am only asking that our “socialist” medicare be extended to include EVERYONE. Just like YOU have Larry. Remember, a lot of Republicans would not vote for you to have your Medicare NOW. They only let you keep it b/c they know how hard the seniors would fight for it.
PS: I will be attending Congressman Gary Miller’s Town Hall tonight and might tell him you said hello.
Please do! And tell him he’s doing a great job, unlike his un-involved counterpart, John Campbell.
I saw some video clips of McCain earlier today and he was doing a great job too, of explaining what he knew of the issues and telling people whether he agreed or disagreed. He got booed when he reminded the audience that our president deserves our respect. But he handled things well. Very honorable. Have fun, Larry!
Perspectives on the European Health Care Systems: Some Lessons for America
by Robert E. Moffit, Ph.D., Philippe Manière, David G. Green, Ph.D., Paul Belien, Johan Hjertqvist, and Friedrich Breyer, Ph.D.
Heritage Lecture #711
I don’t know how to get this link, so this is the name of the report. It is very good!
When they say though, that the swiss have a private system, it is more like Caloptima, they pay into the system and it is managed by private companies. Just as Caloptima uses Blue cross, Blue sheild.
By the way The Heritage Foundation is doing an independent investigation of all the unsolved murders in N.Ireland both sides. This is such a brilliant foundation, with incrediable resources.