“California’s highest court is poised to be the next battleground in the debate over benefits for illegal immigrants as the justices have agreed to hear arguments on the constitutionality of a state law allowing undocumented students to pay in-state tuition at public colleges and universities,” according to the L.A. Times.
This law was meant to help immigrant kids who grew up here after coming to the U.S. as young children. These kids have gone to California public schools all their lives. They have excelled and they now want to go to college. Why not help them?
“The lawsuit alleges that education officials are violating federal law by granting in-state tuition to illegal immigrants while not offering the same lower fees to students from outside California.”
The rub here is that out of state students are the ones suing California to reverse this law, whereas the immigrant young people in question have been here for years. Their parents likely pay taxes just like everyone else. If anything this situation is begging for another Amnesty from President Obama.
Readers – what say you?
[poll id=”74″]
The question posted to your readers fails to distinguish between immigrants who have some kind of legal status here and those who do not, whereas the text of your post focuses on but one category of immigrant – those who do not. Your reader question reminds me of the ads on t.v. where a woman is ordering a bagel toasted and untoasted because she likes both. Can’t get there from here. Her Bagel order is thus meaningless, as is your reader question.
If you mean illegal immigrants in your question: NO WAY. They should not even be able to pay any tuition since they should not be in our schools though I guess we have to let them stay through grade 12.
Art,
Love the use of Gil Cedillo’s picture with the kids. Gil is one of the best people I know in politics. He is very compassionate and cares about the people.
You cannot believe all the great things he does in the community helping the kids and those in need.
I was lucky enough to be invited by Gil to his Christmas party up in Los Angeles and got to meet so many of the folks that he has helped over the years.
He is a good and decent man and so much more than “One Bill Gil” as the folks on the right like to portray him.
# 3.And your point is…?????????
absolutely! what does it benefit a state like california to deny access by charging its talented residents out-of-state tuition due to their legal status? nothing! so on this issue don’t be a know-nothing!
Welcome to OJ Blog, Gabriel.
I hear that USC is going to stop allowing in state tuition altogether by denying those students and instead sell all the seats to out or state and out of country students who pay more. That’s how they are going to balance their books.
Forget about college ustedes, get that job as an assassin or a thief or drug dealer. This State don’t like taxes, wont raise taxes, and cant pay the bills so education is going out the window, you could probably get a better education in Mexico right now.
If Santa Ana School Board President Hernandez had the opportunity to go to college and not pay out of state tuition fees, why not let other illegal children have the same opportunity?
Assuming that by immigrant you are referring to illegal immigrant, this is a tough issue to tackle because so many kids that are U.S. citizens or legal residents are fighting for a seat in college with all the cuts to education so far. Making college more affortable, and thereby more accessible to illegal immigrant children, will only make the competition tougher for all high school graduates.
On the other hand, “a mind is a terrible thing to waste” rings so true. It is really unfair that these illegal immigrant children can miss out on higher ed despite the fact that they have lived and learned in the U.S. the majority of their lives, their parents are very likely paying taxes like the rest of us, and many of them are extremely bright (some brighter than the legal residents and citizens of this country).
Have we stopped to ask ourselves, “What will these illegal immigrant children do with their degree?” They will not be able to get a job in the U.S. unless they are granted a some type of visa that will allow them to legally work in the states. Reform on this issue is much more complex than simply granting illegal immigrant children the right to pay in-state tuition.
Also, #7 Anonyms… FYI USC is a private (not public) university and does not distinguish between in-state, out-of-state, and international students. It’s just a cool $19K per semester for an undergrad student.
As far as I know (and I could be wrong!), private universities do not make the in-out-and international student distinction.
Just throwing it out there.
Why doesn’t the states high schools have citizenship classes? They know that once these kids hit the magic age of 18, there is a problem.
Why does the US government and its subdivisions, (States, Counties, Cities, School Districts) allow this problem to exist?
The USA recruits students from foreign countries, Educates them and gives them work visas. The reason is to fill a shortage of professional positions in the USA.
Most of these individuals are recruited from India,Korea, China, and the Philippines.
They are from foreign countries with no ties to the USA. The kids in question in this thread have families in this country, have grown up here and will remain here. They have assimilated, speak the language and they consider themselves American if so embraced.
They are residents of California and the USA where as the others are not.
If these kids have the intelect and work ethic, why not give them the opportunity.
We provide education to foreign students. Most of these students get the education and take it back to their countries, contrary to the reason they were given the education by our government.
The educated USA resident kids in question will remain here and be an asset to our society. It is a win- -win situation as I see it. We have a in house brain power resource – let us take advantage of it.
Why is one approach (Foreign students) to the USA’s professional shortage O.K. and taking advantage of our in house talent not O.K. ?
Give these kids the same opportunity we give foreign students.
Cook, the state doesn’t pay for citizenship classes. Those probably got cut along with other “electives” to concentrate on the No Child Left Behind Act test curriculum (and there’s not enough money for that even). Everybody is concerned with covering their ass and its smothering real teachers and making it hard for them to turn kids on to learning.
For example, while we all agree that a college degree is the new High School Diploma and that everybody needs one if they want to make more than minimum wage, there are no statistics on our drop out rate prior to a degree. We look at who doesn’t graduate from High School but how many of those kids actually get a degree anyway?
anon #13 and other Juice readers.
While this post relates to in-state tuition let me jump in with another point of view.
While I would surely encourage finishing a college program what makes us believe that every child needs to get a college degree?
Did we ever consider trade schools where they can learn to become electricians and plumbers or tool and die makers and welders? What about pipe fitters, sheet metal or aircraft and automotive technicians. And lastly let us not overlook jobs in HVAC.
The bottom line is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a blue collar skilled trade rather than a white collar profession.
The good news is that most of these are fields where you are much safer from having your job being outsourced.
#9, #10
Gabby, you are right.
Private universities can set their tuition structure any way they like. They can admit legals, illegals, foreign students, and charge them what they think they should charge them.
Public universities charge otu-of-state tuition to Americans, and foreign students.
However, at least in CA, an American who is in California for a year, is only charged in-state tuition. I think that same policy should also be adapted for illegals. There are lots of talented illegals, and it is a shame that they are kept out of our universities.
A couple of years back, Wired Magazine had a story about 4 illegal school kids from Phoenix who beat the smart guys from top universities, including MIT, in a robotic underwater ROV competition: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/robot.html
These kids could go far, if they were allowed to study.
I agree with you Larry, here is a link to the Trade School Directory: http://www.trade-schools.net/locations/california-schools-directory.asp just cut and paste into your browser.
Nevertheless, can anyone find a statistic that shows how many kids complete either college or a trade school? I’m afraid that we are turning our public schools into dumping grounds for our special ed and troubled youth populations. When we look at how much the schools are underfunded and how they are physically deteriorating (the ACLU sued the state over school conditions and they won) can we justify the current push to cut their funding even further? Where will the regular kids go to get their education? Obviously to private schools.
Special Ed parents take heed, when there are no more regular kids in the public schools how much funding do you think there will be for your kids?
Of course! The same people that propose deporting kids are the same ones that complain about grafitti and violence. If you don’t have school to turn to, where the hell do people think they will turn to? Need I say more????
If people who are citizens of other countries get to use California universities at a reduced rate, why not citizens of other states?
Imagine you have two families who immigrate to the U.S. One family does so legally settling in Arizona. One family does so illegally, also settling in Arizona.
The kids who are illegal immigrants from Arizona can go to UCLA at a lower rate than the legal immigrants who live in Arizona.
God bless America!
A few years ago I asked a couple of my students if they could estimate the number of students here that lacked legal residence status. (Absolutely no official records or studies are made of this by the schools.) They thought about who they knew and figured probably about 1 out of 3 lacked residency documents.
Here’s what I’d like to know. A child has breaken no law when brought here by his or her parents. An adolescent cannot reasonably be expected to abandon family and travel alone to a strange land in order to comply with U.S. immigration law. At what point does this student become a law breaker in the eyes of the court?
I don’t believe this has yet been seriously debated in the legislature, because justice, fairness and humanity would have to be considered. Present immigration policy and law was formed largely on the basis of economics and political posturing. My students here in Santa Ana are as American as me. Jimbob (#2 above) acts more Milosevic-Serb, but understandable if he doesn’t know these young people as individuals.
Larry,
The community colleges are California’s trade schools. Their vocational technology programs are what they do better than anyone. For example, to be an aircraft mechanic for Continental or United the UC or CSU won’t get you there. You need your Aircraft and Powerplant (A&P)License, which you can get at OCC or Long Beach CC. Similar programs at CC’s for medical and dental technicians, construction trades. If AB-540 is ruled unconstitutional, the community colleges will be priced out of reach of students who were brought here as children by their parents.
Most private trade schools are an inferior rip-off of our students – they set the kids up with expensive loan packages, then to be hounded by very, very professional debt collectors in the years to come, whether they complete the trade school or not.
SAHS Teacher thanks for framing the question: “Here’s what I’d like to know. A child has broken no law when brought here by his or her parents. An adolescent cannot reasonably be expected to abandon family and travel alone to a strange land in order to comply with U.S. immigration law. At what point does this student become a law breaker in the eyes of the court?” I hope some of the lawyers on here weigh in on this question.
I would think at 18 or 21 whatever the state sets as the age of majority which begs the question why is there no plan to teach these students citizenship and have these young victims (of their parents immigration status), for lack of a better descriptive, take the citizen ship test along with their HS Exit Exam. They could graduate and be sworn in at the same ceremony. Then we could send them on to College or Trade School on in-state tuition. Train them to perform the clean green jobs that others (I’m looking at you NHHS) are too lazy to do.
#18:
“The kids who are illegal immigrants from Arizona can go to UCLA at a lower rate than the legal immigrants who live in Arizona.”
This is simply not true. I would appreciate if you actually learned about these issues before posting something that is clearly not true.
The legal immigrants from Arizona would have to pay non-resident tuition for the first year, and in-state tuition from the second year on. The illegals would have to pay non-resident tuition all the time, since they can’t establish residence in California.
If you wish, you may confirm that with the registrar’s office at UCLA or any of the UC campuses (here is the webpage for UCI: http://www.reg.uci.edu/residency/classification.html)