What if it turns out that gay people can’t help being the way they are – that they don’t choose their orientation but are mostly born with it? Wouldn’t that change the way many of us look at Prop. 8? Well guess what?“Researchers are finding common biological traits among gay men, feeding a growing consensus that sexual orientation is an inborn combination of genetic and environmental factors that largely decide a person’s sexual attractions before they are born,” according to the Mercury News.
“Compared with straight men, gay men are more likely to be left-handed, to be the younger siblings of older brothers, and to have hair that whorls in a counterclockwise direction.”
And the news gets worse for the “haters” – “Researchers are eagerly awaiting a DNA study of male siblings with at least one gay brother by Bailey and other scientists at Northwestern University due in early 2009, because it may shed light on the role genetics plays in sexual attraction. By researching 800 sets of brothers, by far the largest study of its type, the Northwestern study is searching for the specific genes that influence some brothers to be gay and others to be heterosexual.”
I found an organization called “Would Jesus Discriminate” that focuses on biblical scriptures that tell a very different story from what the Talibani types behind Prop. 8 would have you believe. Here is an excerpt from their website:
“There was a time when most Christians believed slavery was the will of God. There was a time when most Christians believed women should not be allowed to vote. There was a time when most Christians believed that interracial marriage was wrong. Each position was elaborately supported with biblical arguments — and each position, we can now clearly see, was dead wrong.”
I looked up the scripture referenced in the graphic on the top of this post. If you read the entire passage, you will find that Jesus came out very clearly against divorce, except when adultery is concerned. He said, “I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery,” according to an online Bible.
Yet many Christians have no problem divorcing for whatever reason they feel like doing so. Where is the ballot measure against divorce? Don’t hold your breath. Christians and the Talibanis amongst them have accepted divorce. But many refuse to accept gay people. Now it would appear that scientific proof that gay people are born that way is on the way, if not already here. Surely the debate is about to be changed forever…
Very interesting. One observation: I don’t know that the origin of homosexuality is really pertinent to the current civil rights debate. Consider another highly personal facet of our personalities: religion (or faith, or the lack of it). Some people didn’t really choose their religion; they were born into it, it was what their parents did, so it’s what they do. Other people choose their religious affiliation based on its perceived truth, congeniality of others involved, convenience, or comfort level. Still others choose not to be involved in religion at all.
Regardless of how a person came to be involved in religion, it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of faith or its absence. Why is it acceptable to discriminate on the grounds of orientation?
And speaking of faith, there’s a great article in Orange Coast Magazine about Messiah Episcopal’s posada at http://www.orangecoastmagazine.com/article2.aspx?id=12046. Come join us!
Conveniently, the religious right and the GOP began an official resistance to science in general and even suspended fetal stem cell research in the US quickly after GWBush took office. However, I expect those trends to reverse under president-elect Barack Obama.
I have just recently seen some articles mentioned in MSM addressing hormones in utero having an influence on the developing fetus and quite possibly influencing sexuality.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/gay.fingers/
Here is an interesting article put out in March of 2000 in which a California psychologist.
….
found the level of male hormones a fetus is exposed to in the womb can influence future sexual orientation. The study, published in this week’s journal Nature, is based an unusual research technique — comparing the lengths of a person’s index and ring fingers.
Marc Breedlove, a professor of psychology at University of California Berkeley, said that finger length is influenced by levels of male hormone, or androgen, in the womb. Thus, he used the finger comparisons as an approximate measure of fetal androgen levels.
In most people, the index finger is slightly shorter than the ring finger. But in the right hand, the difference is accentuated by higher levels of androgens during fetal development, according to the study. In women, the ring and the index finger tend to be almost the same size. In men, the index finger is usually shorter.
In his study of 720 people, Breedlove found higher levels of androgens can create a greater than normal tendency for both males and females to develop a homosexual orientation.
Breedlove found lesbians tended to have a more masculine hand pattern, with the index finger considerably shorter than the ring finger, when compared to heterosexual women as a group.
But he cautions, “There is no gene that forces a person to be straight or gay… I believe there are many social and psychological, as well as biological factors that make up sexual preference.”
Breedlove says what his data does show is that some people are gay because of fetal androgen levels.
“We think that lesbians, as a group, were seeing slightly higher prenatal testosterone levels than were the heterosexual women,” Breedlove said.
He said the pattern for men was more complicated.
I’d rather err on the side of gayness being something that God should decide. I don’t understand all the pre-emptive Xtian & Muslim Talibani damnation that is going on against gay people. Let them live. Let God sort it out.
In the bible, Jesus came across a prostitute ( and lord knows a prostitute has a lot more to say about the choice that she is making than the typical gay person) and Jesus said not to judge her and then he included her in his circle of friends. Have modern day Jesus followers forgotten that poignant vignette?
LOL, have you seen Rachel Maddow’s hands and neck?
Since I was a kid, my impression was there were four genders (and of course lotsa good people who fall between the cracks.)
LOL, have you seen Rachel Maddow’s hands and neck?
I remember back in the day when no one “could” be gay. I remember one of my friends who was soooooo gay! But he had to date girls and had to take prom pictures with his “girlfriend” and had to get married because he was in a church and everyone knew that God knew gays were sinners. We never talked about it and lost contact. I’d like to see him again and see what happened in his life. He was obviously gay – some people look and act gay and have “familiar” traits that kind of give them away. Good points on Maddow. Ted Haggard has that certain “look” that is also very familiar.
The glbt kids are coming out at much earlier ages. It’s nice to think that they won’t have to pretend to be someone that they are not, yet are pushed into being. I know several teens who were disowned by their families after they came out. It’s going to be a vindication when we finally let science show us that gayness involves factors that are “normal” for that particular person.
Coming out is a particular problem for the GLBT kids in Santa Ana. Most are terrified that their parents will find out, and with good reason. Many are literally pushed out of the house, threatened with violence or are abused emotionally. At least the kids of SAUSD don not have to listen to Rosie anymore.
Blog articles, such as this, which describe those in support of Prop 8 as haters, bigots and Taliban are not worthy of comment.
So feel free to blather on in that hateful manner, I will not be making further comment.
junior,
I have never said that everyone who voted for Prop. 8 is a hater – NEVER. I continue to state the obvious – the people who put Prop. 8 on the ballot and the consultants who ran this campaign deserve to be maligned. They tried to use the ballot box to enforce their religious viewpoints on the rest of us and that is wrong.
Again, I pointed out the fact that no church should be allowed to use government power to tell other churches what to do. Yet that is exactly what Prop. 8 does.
How is the ideology behind Prop. 8 any different from that espoused by the Taliban? Both movements believe in using power – bombs or the ballot box – to enforce their own religious views. That is wrong. I don’t know why you cannot see that. It is singularly un-American to abuse government power in this fashion.
There is an elephant in the room– “homosexuality.” We didn’t talk about it during the Prop 22 campaign, but the leaders of the Yes campaign alluded to it ever so slightly in their propaganda.
The state constitution is no place for morals (per Arts comments above) to be defined.
In speaking for PFLAG (Parents Friends of Lesbians and Gays) at colleges, I often ask the question, “What concerns you about homosexuality?” the usual answer is it’s not normal/the bible says its a sin/it’s unnatural two people of the same sex kissing and doing whatever/it makes me uncomfortable/how do I explain it to my kids.
Well not talking about it won’t make it go away and not letting us get married won’t make it go away and not having sex education in schools won’t make it go away.
We are everywhere. There are students in school that have same sex parents, mixed raced parents, single parents, etc.. The old comfort zone is changing.
To those who voted YES on Prop 8. Do you feel better? are your children safer? is your marriage saved?
If the vote on Gay marriage, isn’t really a vote against homosexuals, than I don’t see why you voted YES. Your church doesn’t have to marry anyone it don’t want to and you can send your kids to private school. You can teach you kids to accept differences or not. You don’t even have to put it in the Constitution.
Better yet. You take the Domestic Partnership you say gets us the same rights. I’ll take a marriage license and not have to go to court to settle all the gray areas in the DP law.
It was a sad day for me when I checked and found that 2/3 rds of the precinct were I live voted Yes (Not really surprised, but it hurt just the same.). But, I take heart…. I was told that it didn’t mean they hate me. They just don’t want me to be able to marry my partner. If it’s not homophobia, what is it?
The PM of Spain said it the best, “We are not legislating, honorable members, for people far away and not known by us. We are enlarging the opportunity for happiness to our neighbors, our co-workers, our friends and, our families: at the same time we are making a more decent society, because a decent society is one that does not humiliate its members.” Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero , Prime Minster Spain on their gay marriage adoption.
I don’t know that I feel humiliated, but I certainly feel like a second class citizen.
Are you the same BL Muirhead that did the timeline on OC gay history at UCI?
B L Muirhead
Not knowing who you are I have no idea how many political campaigns you have been involved in.
While I have enjoyed our victories in elected official races, from school boards to city council, Sacramento and Washington, we have also suffered several defeats in ballot measures.
My point is that the General election was held on Nov 4th which is almost one month ago. You are obviously unhappy with the outcome of Prop 8. I am unhappy in losing more than one ballot measure and several good candidates including the editor of this blog. Life goes on. If/as the court entertains a challenge to Prop 8 let us await their ruling.
The real issue for you to consider is the massive number of registered voters who did NOT particpate in last months election which might have changed the outcome of Prop 8 and any other races.
I wonder if you would feel the same way if they took away your right to marry and all the civil rights laws and statutes attached to it. If a majority of people, barely 50%+, can say who can get married they can also pluck at away at other things of which they morally disapprove. It it had been left to a vote of the people, blacks and whites might still not be able to marry or have a full vote, women would not be able to vote, etc..
I would be glad to join with you on the issues that affect me financially and the quality of life in my neighborhood if I were not spending my time, energy, and money trying to get equal right for me and my partner. We certainly tried to get people to vote, but I don’t think we are allowed to drag them to the polls. Yes, life does go on. Except you have all your marriage perks (if you in fact are married or could be anytime you wanted to) and I will continue to live the sinful life that the majority (50%+) have deemed is immoral and not worthy. God Bless!
If it had been defeated, what would you be doing now? I would be getting married and moving on to other issues.