Accessibility for All Citizens Team “ACT Now”
Concerned with the recent economic trends and fall out, a group of individuals decided to form an advocacy group to empower people with disabilities into changing their world. We plan to go beyond ADA compliance issues. Using the ADA laws as the floor and not the ceiling, our goal is to bring local communities into compliance by building understanding, developing positive working relationships, and setting realistic goals. And if necessary, we will draw upon the legal system to get the job done. There will be no dues. As advocates against restriction of dignity and accessibility, we will meet once a month to isolate a problem or violation and then work to get it fixed! All those interested in this new advocacy group plan to join us. Our first meeting will be October 18 at 1:00 pm at the DMC Center, 13272 Garden Grove Blvd., Garden Grove. At this meeting we will set up time and dates for future meetings and introduce new members.
Please RSVP to Arnie Pike 714 961-1481 or mailto:arnie@ampevents.com
If you are interested in joining this new group, please bring a your list of items you would like us to rectify. Our plans are to continue meeting at the DMC Center 13272 Garden Grove Blvd. Garden Grove, CA 92843 If the location/time is not convenient for you then stay in contact by e-mail – that way we will try to keep everyone informed of our projects as we go forward.
” …we will draw upon the legal system to get the job done.”
I hope that your organization will pursue legitimate disability access claims and does not engage in frivolous lawsuits for monetary gain.
Lawsuit abuse costs Californians millions of dollars every year and perpetuates a climate of fear for small-business owners. Consumers pay for frivolous lawsuits as businesses increase prices to cover their legal costs or shutdown, reducing market competition and leading to higher prices.
I hope that your organization will pursue legitimate disability access claims and does not engage in frivolous lawsuits for monetary gain.
Number 1, Good point.
Maybe you could spell out what is “frivolous” when it comes to rights guaranteed by the Americans with Disabilities Act that has been in place for nearly 20 years?
Not being able to use the bathroom -would that be legit or frivolous?
ADA, signed into law in 1990 by HW Bush:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_with_Disabilities_Act_of_1990
RV – In reference to ADA lawsuit abuse, laws should encourage compliance by providing a legally protecting certification of compliance and right-to-fix alleged violations prior to a lawsuit. These changes would allow, and encourage, business owners to see the financial benefit in achieving compliance and make the necessary changes.
Looks like a great idea. Look forward to new members.
We are not looking to engage in frivolous lawsuits, only to get everybody educated & in complaince.
Anon,
From what I read in ACT Now’s statement, it looks like they want to take the friendly approach thru direct contact, education and information sharing. Litigation is not ruled out, but I don’t get the impression that bringing a suit is in anywhere near to the first step in getting access issues resolved.
Statistics say that most every person will experience a temporary or permanant disability before they die, so advocacy for things like accessibility and fair treatment is important for ALL of us.
You seem to have some knowledge of laws and ADA. Would you consider joining up with a group like ACT Now – even if just on an email list- to help promote the idea that every person counts and that being included in as many places and functions as possible is the right thing to do?
What would you say is the best way to get businesses to commit to compliance for accomodating everyone? How to do this?
Red,
By providing a legally protecting certification of compliance and right-to-fix alleged violations prior to a lawsuit
These changes would allow, and encourage, business owners to see the financial benefit in achieving compliance and make the necessary changes.
in my opinion the ADA has driven a widge between the disabled and the business world,due to funding(or lack there of) the likes of which you’ll never know unless you are disabled.
..and to the millitant ones the have sued just to make a buck..you’ve only made that widge bigger.
I love it! 41 years after the civil rights act was passed and we’re still faced with business resistance to fairness as defined by our duly elected or appointed representatives and codified in statute accessible to everyone who wants to know what the rules are.
It is so hypocritical! If a Mexican breaks a rule they’re a criminal, if a Business Owner does he’s being a real American. This alone makes me inclined to join you and promote ACT.
Still, there are many groups, unions chief among them, advocating for the disabled and the fit who may become disabled permanently or temporarily. Often there are significant differences between these groups even though their professed goal to help people is common. My questions are: who is starting this group, who are they affiliated with, and what other issues/groups are they affiliated with?
Disabled access was a significant problem 20 years ago.
Now, you cannot get a permit to remodel or build an outhouse without complying with ADA. Nearly all public buildings are in compliance.
Everywhere I go I am happy to see great accommodations for the disabled.
Sincerely, how much of a problem is access and ADA compliance currently?
Who is starting this group? We were part of CDR (CA. for Disabled Rights) but got disguested with them so went on our own. We are not affiliated with any one. We will take on issues the group brings forward.
Also permits are issued all the time & ADA is overlooked. That’s why we are trying for compliance. No matter what’s being said, compliance is a big concern to the people with disabilities.
Arnie,I’m curious as to what caused the split from CDR?
Grrrrr. this thing just ate my post to Rick!
Rick,
I had a very thorough reply for you, but it was snatched up by this posting system. I will try and recreate it for you, because I think you deserve an answer and some information.
Like some of the dysfunctional organizations that we read about and post about here on the OJ, CDR has some seriously messed up “leaders” who are currently in charge at the state level. There are just a few bad apples, but their impact is great on the organization. CDR’s membership has been in serious decline since these fools took over. When our chapter asked about seeing how our dues were spent, we became the targets of relentless flame wars, censorship and all around negativity. Laura, Ben and Ruthie are just not nice people. And they are very arrogant and self-serving.
With all the state budget cuts, it just didn’t seem necessary to collect dues from people – in fact we never were given an answer on how our dues were spent! When our president, Rowland, moved out of state, no one wanted to step up and deal with the negativity of CDR, but we still enjoyed meeting up once a month and figured that we could expand our group by not charging dues and inviting interested others into email discussions.
Some of our members have been lifetime CDR members, so the decision was not made lightly to disband the chapter, but we wanted to cut the nonsense and focus in on productive projects without all the negativity.
People who are not tethered to a piece of mobility equipment or who don’t use service animals or who don’t need to use accessible parking spots, etc… are really unaware of barriers in the community. They get around just fine. However, there are some folks who would really benefit by having a curb cut put in place by their home so that they can shop or visit out in the community and that would make such a huge difference in their quality of life. Most of these projects are simple. Some are more complex.
Regarding building permits and remodels of older buildings, for sure, the most cost effective course of action is to have accessibility planned into the project from the get go. I have seen studies that claimed putting in an accessible feature after the fact will cost approximately ten times the amount of the same feature that was in the design in the first place. The example was a ramp into a home: Construction costs to make the door jamb wider, have a ramp in place of stairs leading up to the home would be about $50. A retrofit would be about $500 (probably more today, because this report was made about 10 years ago). But you get the idea – it is cost effective to have these features planned for.
Universal Housing is an interesting concept that has been around for a number of years, yet is still “new” information to many people. It is a cradle-to-grave form of housing design that makes the home “visit able” and “habitable” by ALL persons, regardless of mobility issues. This means that your neighbor in a chair can come right in for a drink and a chat. Granny with a walker will find it easy to come for a visit. Parents with kids in strollers face no boundaries. You break your leg, have back surgery, have a stroke, etc…. your home supports whatever situation you may find yourself in. Remember, MOST of us will be faced with a permanent or temporary disability before we die. Knowing about, and expecting accessibility in our communities benefits us all.
Recently, our local meeting place, the Dayle McIntosh center, was contacted by Subway Sandwiches and they requested an assessment of their stores in the area and if there were any accessibility issues present. Christy, one of our members, has been visiting those stores and reporting back to the owners at NO CHARGE for her services, with her findings. Christy uses a chair and is a knowledgeable advocate who is dedicated to building bridges for business and community. Subway wants all the business customers they can possibly get. Lots of folks have money to spend and subway wants everyone feeling welcome at their place of business to spend their $$$$$.
This kind of insight and proactive cooperation is really more the norm. I know that this kind of story is not a big news-seller, so people might not even realize that this stuff goes on all the time. Many business owners get frightened because they just don’t have the necessary information or links to resources to get their questions answered. The tough economy makes business owners fearful of lawsuits and I think we’ve seen some of that concern on this subject here already.
I have a suggestion. If you find that you are having difficulty with the whole ADA thing, maybe consider joining up on the email list, ask your questions and see what the real deal is. We’re making sure it doesn’t cost anyone anything to get the information that can be shared. Our group is made up of people who have disabilities and people who would like to see our cities accessible to all. ACT Now!
Thank you very much for your response and I look forward to attending a meeting.
I am not disabled but I have used older bathrooms that have been retrofitted for the disabled. What they do is cut back all the regular stalls by several inches so that it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn around in the stall or squat without peeing on yourself [women].To deny that there isn’t extortion of small business’s by some in the disabled community is to ignore reality. A family member had a small motel that was slated for redevelopment, six months before the place was to be demolished. a ‘handicapped’ person came through and sued for lack of access [along with many other businesses they HIT that day] they ended up ‘settling’ for about 10,000 dollars. Didn’t Clint Eastwood face a similar situation? I do believe that all Govt. buildings and all new construction should be designed to accommodate the disabled, but some of the retrofitting required of small businesses is onerous.
I am not disabled but I have used older bathrooms that have been retrofitted for the disabled. What they do is cut back all the regular stalls by several inches so that it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn around in the stall or squat without peeing on yourself [women].
So you have a bit of an insight on how it is to have physical barriers that prevent you from enjoying your outings? Could you have used the larger, accessible stall?
Red, you obviously aren’t a woman or you wouldn’t ask that question [haven’t you ever noticed the lines for the women’s restroom?]. Besides, aren’t we supposed to leave that stall free for the disabled?
I think that #17 has made some valid points.
The “Disability Warrior” of Julian is a case in point. That guy swooped in and sent ADA letters to 67 businesses in the town of Julian one day.
Like #17, I have no physical disability that prevents me from moving around freely in a variety of environments. However, I do know plenty of active people who have mobility issues that have had to deal with inappropriate bathrooms, un-enterable public entrances, barriers to shopping because stores crowd the aisles with merchandise and other situations that have simply not been thought through. With minor adjustments, most businesses actually operate more safely and efficiently.
If your relative that owned the small motel suddenly found themselves in a wheelchair, I am sure that their priorities to make their business accessible to ALL people would have shifted greatly.
If a business is really unwilling to make everyone feel comfortable and included, then why not at least advertise this fact openly with signage saying something like, “Our premises are not accessible. Please take your business elsewhere”. I’d settle for that over a warning and a fine, any day. That would be an excellent way to predict which businesses are friendly and organized and which ones simply don’t care about doing business correctly and don’t respect their clientele.
That kind of truth in advertising would keep people like me away. For sure, I’d never plan a party or gathering at those kinds of businesses. If enough people caught on, that business wouldn’t have to worry about any retrofitting at all. It’d be sitting idle a lot.
As you’ve mentioned in #17, no one likes the nasty suprise of having to possibly pee on themselves because the bathroom is ridiculously inaccessible. Imagine that you wanted to continue to live as freely as possible, you are stuck in a wheelchair because of an accident and about half of the places you try to go to with your friends and family are unfriendly towards your situation. I bet that would be enough to ruin your day. Day after exhausting day.
You need to understand that we are ALL just one accident or incident away from being disability free. It can happen that quick. It can happen to anyone.
Everyone, be well ~j
Anyone can use the stall that is accessible. Like buses and other public places, it is right to yield to anyone who has a disability.
If the bathroom is THAT busy, then the business should get a clue and do the work necessary to make all customers feel comfortable. This is not a zero-sum game here. This is about including EVERYONE who wants to frequent your business.
Rick,
We will all be very happy to meet you in the future!
While I agree with most of what was said we are not here to discuss CDR bad & good points. If you want to belong to CDR, go ahead. But don’t say you were not warned. That being said I still feel everyone has had time to come into compliance. If you want to join us please call 714 9611481.
I was in LA today & to start with their was not room for my Service Dog next to my chair & the driver did not tie my wheelchair down as required. I had to use the restroom at the museum & the handicapped stall was being by a non-disabled child. I had to wait my turn which was ok since it’s not only for the people with a disability.
Thank you for the information Mr Pike, it sounds like you are grassroots group bailing out on a larger established group that has become suspiciously unresponsive. You are right to leave.
This reminds me of CARA, California Association of Retired Americans, a grassroots group founded when AARP supported the current prescription drug plan that protects big Pharma and not America’s Seniors.
Without making a decision on my own participation I do wish you all success and look forward to periodic updates on OJB.
When Congress passed the ADA it found:
–society isolates and segregates people with disabilities
–discrimination against individuals with disabilities is a serious and pervasive social problem
Purposes of the ADA include:
–assure equality of opportunity
–full participation
–independent living
–economic self sufficiency for people with disabilities
Citation: 42 U.S.C. 12101(a)(8)
” …we will draw upon the legal system to get the job done.”
“That being said I still feel everyone has had time to come into compliance.”
I hope that your organization will pursue legitimate disability access claims and does not engage in frivolous lawsuits for monetary gain.
Lawsuit abuse costs Californians millions of dollars every year and perpetuates a climate of fear for small-business owners. Consumers pay for frivolous lawsuits as businesses increase prices to cover their legal costs or shutdown, reducing market competition and leading to higher prices.
More info at http://www.cala.com (Citizens Against Lawsuit Abuse)
#26 “anon” comment is exactly the wedge issue I talked about earlier. these things happen when UNFUNDED issues like the ADA are written and not studied first.
Yes I am in a chair and yes I like being able to go wherever I can without barriers,but not if it creates an atmosphere of hate as does the current ADA.
Rick, I’m glad you like going wherever you want and I can understand that if you find an atmosphere of hate because someone had to accommodate you that it makes you uncomfortable. I’m sorry for that and for the miserable SOBs that hate the disabled because they had to spend a buck on them.
To you I say look around at all the people who have been discriminated in our society. Look at the people who are in their homes afraid to go out because of the discrimination and intimidation they will find when they do go out. Should we just ignore these criminal and immoral actions by members of our society so that we dont get them mad?
I’m sorry and I do understand your feelings but what happened? Didn’t they get the memo? Its been 40 years since the Civil Rights Act passed making all these forms of discrimination illegal. the ADA is simple a logical outgrowth of their decision to ignore the law and discriminate against those members of our society least able to stand up for themselves.
Where I come from we have a name for that and for those kind of people. I loved to kick their asses then and I love to kick their asses now. Which is not to say that I think ACT should engage in frivolous lawsuits or that they would engage in frivilous lawsuits. For the record I never engaged in a frivilous fight against my bullies either.
I believe you’ve missed my point. I’m not “sad” at the Goal of the ADA. I think it needs to be rewriiten and funded. ..and I have seen people use it as a crutch to line their on pockets.
THAT my friend is where the hate begins.
CORRECTED:
I believe you’ve missed my point. I’m not “sad” at the Goal of the ADA. I do think it needs to be rewriiten and funded. ..and I have seen people use it as a crutch to line their own pockets.
THAT my friend is where the hate begins.
ACT and CALA – a match made in OC
My husband had a stroke ten years ago and from that day, we have been fighting for the accommodations listed in the ADA laws. We have seen some progress, but what has been the number one pressure that causes reform? Lawsuits! However, that takes so much time and effort. We need to get moving on these issues. The problem is that forcing someone to something, anything, creates a wedge. People do become angry and sometimes dig their heels in even deeper.
So a message to Rick and the others. It is time we move forward, and get the job done. We need to stop bickering among ourselves and go out and push for reform. ACT wants to do just that and more. Part of getting the job done is to change attitudes and get people on our side of understanding what the problems are. We hope to use an approach that it is good business to allow people with disabilities to shop in their stores, eat in their restaurants, and sleep in their hotels. We want them to know we too are a source of revenue for them. With our aging population, I find that many of the accommodations set forth by ADA make it easier for our seniors to also get about. Since my knees are aging faster than the rest of me I rely on bars in the bathrooms and the higher toilet seats and doors and ramps instead of curbs or steps. My back isn’t what it use to be so I like doors that open easily. a I am not the only one in my age group that is beginning to “feel” the need for some of the same accommodations that were meant for my husband. We need to make the business world understand that these accommodations are good business for all customers. Furthermore, I am constantly running into people angry because they can’t go on a favorite senior trip that was canceled because it was not accessible. They want to blame the person who was disabled for the cancellation. My reply is, “Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the business or destination put forth the effort to make their facility accessible for ALL to go then no one would be left behind?” Too often the disabled are blamed and not the business. ACT wants to redirect the anger to fixing the problem not focusing on blame. We have spent too many hours discussing and not enough doing. We need to work on our local venues and slowly work toward total accessibility.