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	<title>Comments on: To counter our stories Mission Viejo creates its own &#8220;blog&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Larry Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62709</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62709</guid>
		<description>Mr. Inside:
While I surely agree that &quot;To hold them accountable we need documents and public statements&quot; some of the facts only appear at or during council meetings after the dastardly deed has been done. 
We have been fortunate to get our hands on city documents over the past two decades due to having &quot;deep throat&quot; friends in the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Inside:<br />
While I surely agree that &#8220;To hold them accountable we need documents and public statements&#8221; some of the facts only appear at or during council meetings after the dastardly deed has been done.<br />
We have been fortunate to get our hands on city documents over the past two decades due to having &#8220;deep throat&#8221; friends in the city.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62708</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62708</guid>
		<description>Email from Mr. Inside
If it is hard to find it doesn&#039;t appear to be much of a factor. If they do a blog and put a spin on everything, it will just be more fodder for our blogs to pin them down to phony and misleading statements (which I think sound better than &quot;lies.&quot;) To hold them accountable we need documents and public statements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Email from Mr. Inside<br />
If it is hard to find it doesn&#8217;t appear to be much of a factor. If they do a blog and put a spin on everything, it will just be more fodder for our blogs to pin them down to phony and misleading statements (which I think sound better than &#8220;lies.&#8221;) To hold them accountable we need documents and public statements.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62674</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 16:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62674</guid>
		<description>One of my hero&#039;s was president Ronald Reagan whom you will often see me quote such as &quot;trust, but verify.&quot;
He aso coined the 11th Commandment. &quot;Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican.&quot; 

However the Mission Viejo city council majority are nothing more than &quot;RINO&#039;s.&quot; They may be former or current members of the Saddleback Republican Assembly, a charted unit of the CRA, but they no longer follow the &quot;Belief Statement&quot; of the CRA.
Having served as president of that unit for four years I do know what is expected of its members and they surely have fallen off the wagon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my hero&#8217;s was president Ronald Reagan whom you will often see me quote such as &#8220;trust, but verify.&#8221;<br />
He aso coined the 11th Commandment. &#8220;Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican.&#8221; </p>
<p>However the Mission Viejo city council majority are nothing more than &#8220;RINO&#8217;s.&#8221; They may be former or current members of the Saddleback Republican Assembly, a charted unit of the CRA, but they no longer follow the &#8220;Belief Statement&#8221; of the CRA.<br />
Having served as president of that unit for four years I do know what is expected of its members and they surely have fallen off the wagon.</p>
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		<title>By: Saturn</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62664</link>
		<dc:creator>Saturn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 14:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62664</guid>
		<description>They have leadership in Mission Viejo?
And all this time I thought they had egotistical, self-serving, brain dead mouth pieces.

Wait a minute, anon - explain leadership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They have leadership in Mission Viejo?<br />
And all this time I thought they had egotistical, self-serving, brain dead mouth pieces.</p>
<p>Wait a minute, anon &#8211; explain leadership.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62650</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62650</guid>
		<description>#9

Let me be more clear.  Larry does NOT suck.

The leadership in his city of MV definitely Suck.

I think Larry should run for one of those council positions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#9</p>
<p>Let me be more clear.  Larry does NOT suck.</p>
<p>The leadership in his city of MV definitely Suck.</p>
<p>I think Larry should run for one of those council positions.</p>
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		<title>By: MV resident 2</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62649</link>
		<dc:creator>MV resident 2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62649</guid>
		<description>Larry

Let me see if I have this right. Why are there no names with the blogs ? So the ciy manager and the council or even the RATTGATE himself can write a blog without a name ? Is this not a violation of their own blog rules? But if you want to post you must be identified ? I guess this is a way to out or silence any of the city staff (PUBLIC SERVANTS) that contribute to the blogs.

Get it  ???  SERVE THE PUBLIC  ???

Larry you don&#039;t suck !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry</p>
<p>Let me see if I have this right. Why are there no names with the blogs ? So the ciy manager and the council or even the RATTGATE himself can write a blog without a name ? Is this not a violation of their own blog rules? But if you want to post you must be identified ? I guess this is a way to out or silence any of the city staff (PUBLIC SERVANTS) that contribute to the blogs.</p>
<p>Get it  ???  SERVE THE PUBLIC  ???</p>
<p>Larry you don&#8217;t suck !</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Gilbert</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62618</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Gilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62618</guid>
		<description>Sarah.
Let me read the opening of a July 10th letter.  

The City of Mission Viejo has established its own &quot;blog&quot; as an additional way to provide information that is of value to the residents of the city of Mission Viejo and to identify important issues that arise from time to time.

As such I view this as an internal &quot;spin&quot; machine that will be used to justify CIP change orders that exceed the original budget, unauthorized CIP&#039;s such as &quot;firegate&quot; and misleading cost data such as &quot;easelgate&quot; where the Register reporter was told the 500 or so easels ordered for one event cost the City $15 each when, through persistent public record requests, we discover the actual cost closer to $40.
Residents of the city might inquire as to that cost and the city would deflect a direct response by saying we are now donating them, at least those that were not trashed, to local non-profits or schools (after the exposure).

I have yet to look at the site. Given time I expect it to be very self serving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah.<br />
Let me read the opening of a July 10th letter.  </p>
<p>The City of Mission Viejo has established its own &#8220;blog&#8221; as an additional way to provide information that is of value to the residents of the city of Mission Viejo and to identify important issues that arise from time to time.</p>
<p>As such I view this as an internal &#8220;spin&#8221; machine that will be used to justify CIP change orders that exceed the original budget, unauthorized CIP&#8217;s such as &#8220;firegate&#8221; and misleading cost data such as &#8220;easelgate&#8221; where the Register reporter was told the 500 or so easels ordered for one event cost the City $15 each when, through persistent public record requests, we discover the actual cost closer to $40.<br />
Residents of the city might inquire as to that cost and the city would deflect a direct response by saying we are now donating them, at least those that were not trashed, to local non-profits or schools (after the exposure).</p>
<p>I have yet to look at the site. Given time I expect it to be very self serving.</p>
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		<title>By: cathyschlicht</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62609</link>
		<dc:creator>cathyschlicht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62609</guid>
		<description>these first posts are just press releases.  puff pieces do not sell newspapers and won’t make this “blog” successful.

the “city editor” apparently does not know enough that a splashy news event will bring readers back for more.  instead, we read milk toast stories.

i have no doubt that council member lance maclean was all gun-ho about this city sponsored blog, and yet his voice was silenced.

the post on the social host ordinance not only fails to state that it narrowly passed by a 3-2 vote, it only quotes one council member, trish kelley, and ignores lance’s very strong arguments in defense of our civil liberties, which the ordinance has the potential to violate.  

here is a portion of the ocregister story that probably helped to prompt the city to create its own blog:

LANCE MACLEAN
Q: What are your thoughts about the blogs that follow city issues?

A:There is a frustration that, not everything that is written in a blog, isn&#039;t necessarily true or accurate, and when people read the blogs they assume the accuracy. There is a small element of fact and a whole bunch of opinion and hyperbole.
 
Q: Have you ever been contacted for a blog?

A:No. 

for the balance of the article go to:   http://www.ocregister.com/articles/city-blogs-blog-2078462-contacted-call

i wonder if the city author contacted lance ?


so this is just another attempt to control public opinion and content.  

also, did you notice that the posts do not carry the name of the author?    i have posted before that adding your name adds credibility to your statements.

it is obvious that the editors of the city blog have a lot to learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>these first posts are just press releases.  puff pieces do not sell newspapers and won’t make this “blog” successful.</p>
<p>the “city editor” apparently does not know enough that a splashy news event will bring readers back for more.  instead, we read milk toast stories.</p>
<p>i have no doubt that council member lance maclean was all gun-ho about this city sponsored blog, and yet his voice was silenced.</p>
<p>the post on the social host ordinance not only fails to state that it narrowly passed by a 3-2 vote, it only quotes one council member, trish kelley, and ignores lance’s very strong arguments in defense of our civil liberties, which the ordinance has the potential to violate.  </p>
<p>here is a portion of the ocregister story that probably helped to prompt the city to create its own blog:</p>
<p>LANCE MACLEAN<br />
Q: What are your thoughts about the blogs that follow city issues?</p>
<p>A:There is a frustration that, not everything that is written in a blog, isn&#8217;t necessarily true or accurate, and when people read the blogs they assume the accuracy. There is a small element of fact and a whole bunch of opinion and hyperbole.</p>
<p>Q: Have you ever been contacted for a blog?</p>
<p>A:No. </p>
<p>for the balance of the article go to:   <a href="http://www.ocregister.com/articles/city-blogs-blog-2078462-contacted-call" rel="nofollow">http://www.ocregister.com/articles/city-blogs-blog-2078462-contacted-call</a></p>
<p>i wonder if the city author contacted lance ?</p>
<p>so this is just another attempt to control public opinion and content.  </p>
<p>also, did you notice that the posts do not carry the name of the author?    i have posted before that adding your name adds credibility to your statements.</p>
<p>it is obvious that the editors of the city blog have a lot to learn.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62606</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:17:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62606</guid>
		<description>Larry,

Your leadership in MV sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larry,</p>
<p>Your leadership in MV sucks.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Michelle Spinosa</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62601</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Michelle Spinosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62601</guid>
		<description>I went to the site but didn&#039;t try to log in. I didn&#039;t see the point. 

For those who are interested, they don&#039;t accept anons and you must have a Wordpress account to comment there.

The city was so cheap that they put the site up on Wordpress.com (as opposed to running the software on a private server), and then paid a little extra for CSS and a custom URL. Grand total for development? About $30/year + the salary of the person who spent no more than an hour putting it together.

Also, the stories there are not political. They seem to be community announcements. Even their tagline references their interest of quality of life issues (&#039;Make Living Your Mission&#039;), not political debate. The fact that you put the word &#039;blog&#039; in quotes, further proves my point Larry.

Sorry hon, but this story is setting off my BS meter, even if the site rules do seem drastically slanted in favor of the city.

SMS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to the site but didn&#8217;t try to log in. I didn&#8217;t see the point. </p>
<p>For those who are interested, they don&#8217;t accept anons and you must have a WordPress account to comment there.</p>
<p>The city was so cheap that they put the site up on WordPress.com (as opposed to running the software on a private server), and then paid a little extra for CSS and a custom URL. Grand total for development? About $30/year + the salary of the person who spent no more than an hour putting it together.</p>
<p>Also, the stories there are not political. They seem to be community announcements. Even their tagline references their interest of quality of life issues (&#8216;Make Living Your Mission&#8217;), not political debate. The fact that you put the word &#8216;blog&#8217; in quotes, further proves my point Larry.</p>
<p>Sorry hon, but this story is setting off my BS meter, even if the site rules do seem drastically slanted in favor of the city.</p>
<p>SMS</p>
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		<title>By: Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62600</link>
		<dc:creator>Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62600</guid>
		<description>I also went to the site and could not log in. Perhaps login will be limited to the 30 hand-picked residents the city manager would like the newspaper to interview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also went to the site and could not log in. Perhaps login will be limited to the 30 hand-picked residents the city manager would like the newspaper to interview.</p>
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		<title>By: cathyschlicht</title>
		<link>http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/2008/07/to-counter-our-stories-mission-viejo-creates-its-own-blog/comment-page-1/#comment-62597</link>
		<dc:creator>cathyschlicht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangejuiceblog.com/?p=7376#comment-62597</guid>
		<description>here is a portion of an e-mail i just forwarded to the mission viejo city manager:
 
welcome to the world of bloggers !!    how fun, another blog to contribute to.   

i have been unable to log on to the site.  

according to the enewsletter, readers can add comments for all to see.

since the city is a public entity and may not censor  speech,  experience shows that  anonymous commenters often lack self-control.

i hope the city will not allow anonymous posters.  

which raises another question – can the city regulate who can be a commenter that does not violate the first amendment?   do anonymous commenters have first amendment protections????

my post at  http://orangejuiceblog.com/2008/06/mission-viejo-city-council-fired-back-over-local-bloggers-news-coverage/#comments,   further expresses my concerns about nameless posters.

mission viejo city life blog is not a private blog and cannot censor speech.  you have to allow all speech or no speech.  private blogs can eliminate offensive and libelous speech.  the city cannot.

so what rules are in place to stop the city from offending the first amendment?  cathy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here is a portion of an e-mail i just forwarded to the mission viejo city manager:</p>
<p>welcome to the world of bloggers !!    how fun, another blog to contribute to.   </p>
<p>i have been unable to log on to the site.  </p>
<p>according to the enewsletter, readers can add comments for all to see.</p>
<p>since the city is a public entity and may not censor  speech,  experience shows that  anonymous commenters often lack self-control.</p>
<p>i hope the city will not allow anonymous posters.  </p>
<p>which raises another question – can the city regulate who can be a commenter that does not violate the first amendment?   do anonymous commenters have first amendment protections????</p>
<p>my post at  <a href="http://orangejuiceblog.com/2008/06/mission-viejo-city-council-fired-back-over-local-bloggers-news-coverage/#comments" rel="nofollow">http://orangejuiceblog.com/2008/06/mission-viejo-city-council-fired-back-over-local-bloggers-news-coverage/#comments</a>,   further expresses my concerns about nameless posters.</p>
<p>mission viejo city life blog is not a private blog and cannot censor speech.  you have to allow all speech or no speech.  private blogs can eliminate offensive and libelous speech.  the city cannot.</p>
<p>so what rules are in place to stop the city from offending the first amendment?  cathy</p>
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